Infrastructure/Meetings/2008-02-14

= Meeting of 2008-02-14 =


 * Time shown in EST

15:00 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure = -- Who's here? 15:00 not me! 15:00 m 15:00 -!- notting [n=3Dnotting@redhat/notting] has joined #fedora-meeting 15:01 abadger1999: dgilmore f13 gregdek jcollie ivazquez iWolf = J5 lmacken mbonnet paulobanon_ paulobanon ricky skvidal spoleeba yingbull = PING 15:01 hi 15:01 * dgilmore is here 15:01 pong 15:01 * abadger1999 is here 15:01 mmcgrath, oh no 15:01 * lmacken is here 15:01 wow 15:01 mmcgrath: i'll brb in the middle of some trouble... 15:01 no one does the /me blank thing 15:01 jcollie: no problem. 15:01 -!- mbacovsk [n=3Dmbacovsk@44.252.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #fedo= ra-meeting 15:01 mmcgrath, im on a con call 15:01 * mmcgrath=20 15:01 * dgilmore=20 15:01 spoleeba: no worries. 15:01 ah, much better 15:01 * asgeirf *newbie* is here... 15:02 asgeirf: welcome! 15:02 skvidal: sorry, I forgot to flush the dircproxy users this= week :( 15:02 ah, fresh meat! 15:02 -!- nim-nim [n=3Dnim-nim@fedora/nim-nim] has quit Read error: 104 (Co= nnection reset by peer) 15:02 lmacken: :) 15:02 mmcgrath, trying to convince esmf developers to target fe= dora 15:02 Ok, well lets get started. We may have to put some thing= s off until later as some people are busy right now, but thats not a proble= m. 15:03 spoleeba: just keep the icbm developers from targeting fed= ora 15:03 skvidal: i concur. 15:03 So lots has happened since our last meeting, because we m= issed some in there. 15:03 .tiny https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/quer= y?status=3Dnew&status=3Dassigned&status=3Dreopened&group=3Dmilestone&keywor= ds=3D%7EMeeting&order=3Dpriority 15:03 mmcgrath: http://tinyurl.com/2hyyz6 15:03 < J5> pong 15:03 mmcgrath: howdy 15:03 so first ticket up is something notting asked about just = today 15:03 .ticket 347 15:03 mmcgrath: #347 (Set localtime on all our servers to UTC) - = Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-inf= rastructure/ticket/347 15:03 J5: word 15:03 mmcgrath: did i says id do it? 15:04 So when we do finally do this, we'll have cron jobs and a= ll kinds of things to change. 15:04 dgilmore: yes you did. 15:04 we need to look at cron job scheduling 15:04 I don't think anyone's against it, but we'll have to make= sure we have our plan and do it. Its going to take time to actually do it. 15:04 mmcgrath: week of 25th ill be in boston. so i think ill = do it one night that week 15:05 so lets work up a plan. and get word out there 15:05 dgilmore: solid, that works for me. Go ahead and assign = that ticket to you. 15:05 We *can* do this in steps if we want. I'll leave that up= to you (if you were volunteering for it that is) 15:05 mmcgrath: why do we have to change cron jobs? just to make= sure they don't run at peak hours? 15:05 skvidal: yeah 15:05 oh, goody 15:05 especially with rawhide builds and stuff. 15:05 I mean have about 14 timezones where people are using fedo= ra readily 15:06 my cron jobs run whenever 15:06 is there EVER a non-peak hour? 15:06 yes 15:06 For some machines yeah. Not all of them though. 15:06 skvidal: non-peak US/EU is ideal, i think. 15:06 koji isn't nearly as busy between 1am -> 4am Eastern 15:06 I think many of our important cron jobs are running on th= e hour anyway, but the buildsystem does have lulls 15:06 of course, doing rawhide during then makes koji a little busy = (: 15:06 i do believe most of our contributors are in US/EU 15:06 jima: india is growing 15:07 skvidal: but the fact taht we're increasingly not having = downtime is good :) though it will cause us challenges in the future. 15:07 like when to back up what, etc. 15:07 right 15:07 all I'm wondering is maybe we leave the cron jobs alone 15:07 dgilmore: were you volunteering for that or did I misread= you? 15:07 and see how things are 15:07 but change the system time 15:08 * iWolf slinks into the back 15:08 * mmcgrath thinks dgilmore might have been called away for a bit, we= can get back to that if need be. 15:08 mmcgrath: ill look at how it effects things 15:08 dgilmore: excellent, thanks. 15:08 * dgilmore was taking the ticket=20 15:09 is slow due to no mouse 15:09 next ticket is 365 but jcollie is busy right now. 15:09 .ticket 270 15:09 mmcgrath: #270 (Fedora Wiki allows editing raw HTML) - Fedo= ra Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrast= ructure/ticket/270 15:09 paulobanon_: paulobanon: ricky: ping? 15:09 * mmcgrath hasn't seen them today much, might be busy. 15:09 skvidal: we'll have to change the rawhide compose cron 15:09 * mmcgrath notes he's going to have a whole special wiki talk after = the tickets so we don't have to get into it too much. 15:09 moving on 15:09 .ticket 302 15:09 mmcgrath: #302 (Moin patches) - Fedora Infrastructure - Tra= c - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/302 15:10 skvidal: we time that so that there is fresh rawhide content w= aiting for RH folks to start work, who primarily start in UTC -5 15:10 Last I've heard these are still not upstream, I'm going t= o un-meeting-ize this. 15:10 mmcgrath: seems sane 15:10 f13: eastern standard tribe 15:10 yeah 15:10 netxt ticket 15:10 .395 15:10 also one for jcollie 15:10 f13: we can work it 15:11 we actually did have that one working for a bit, expect i= t to be deployed with the rest of asterisk. 15:11 next topic! 15:11 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure = -- The Wiki 15:11 so lets have a chat about this. 15:11 Woo hoo! 15:11 I'd like to officially propose we move from Moin to Media= wiki. 15:11 wikis are for losers 15:11 let's go with a big dir on fedora people 15:11 deep hurting. 15:11 anyone can edit 15:11 I've been doing some script conversions and thanks to iva= zquez and unicode magic... I've been very happy with the results. 15:11 notting: deep stabbing? 15:12 mmcgrath, how different are the sytaxes? 15:12 mmcgrath: i want moin syntax 15:12 jwb: they're pretty different. 15:12 uuff 15:12 mmcgrath: do we have someone lined up for prettyfication? 15:12 jwb: i personally hate mediawiki's syntax 15:12 does mediawiki have a gui mode that makes that moot? 15:12 any way we can get a rich text editor plugin or something ? 15:12 Here's what we have so far - https://publictest1.fedorapr= oject.org/wiki/Infrastructure 15:12 dgilmore: we might just be able to find a plugin for that. 15:13 when ive had to use it ive had to copy paste and run rege= xs in vi to get it to do what is simple in moin 15:13 -!- glezos [n=3Dglezos@fedora/glezos] has joined #fedora-meeting 15:13 There's going to be bits and pieces to change but for the= most part. Its been very good. 15:13 mmcgrath: if you do ill be a happy man 15:13 * ivazquez apologizes for being late 15:13 that looks like arse... 15:13 * glezos too 15:13 ivazquez: no worries 15:13 -!- mether [n=3Dask@fedora/mether] has quit Read error: 113 (No route= to host) 15:13 lmacken: mediawiki does have soem wysiwyg editors 15:13 glezos: we're just talking about mediawiki - https://publ= ictest1.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure 15:13 mmcgrath, maybe some of that doesn't work well from external c= onnections? 15:13 jwb: we'll have someone make a template for it. 15:13 mmcgrath, would mediawiki be any easier or harder to integr= ate with FAS? 15:14 mmcgrath, no, i mean it looks broken 15:14 warren: easier. 15:14 cool 15:14 jwb: define broken? as in there's the #! html box at the= top? 15:14 hey, i could read InfrastructurePrivate w/o logging in 15:14 mmcgrath, no... let me post a screenshot 15:14 warren: unlike moin, mediawiki has a full and documented = api (someone has even written a fuse filesystem for it I hear) as well as a= good plugin/extensions system. 15:15 Aside from dennis hating the markup, is anyone against th= is? 15:15 poelcat: ping (thought you might want to know we're talki= ng about this) 15:15 and an xml-rpc interface iirc 15:15 i am very ambivalent 15:15 mmcgrath, http://jwboyer.fedorapeople.org/Screenshot.png 15:15 what do our most prominent wiki-ans think? 15:15 notting: eat more roughage 15:15 I'm not against it, but that script needs quite a bit mor= e tweaking. 15:15 Do we know how it will scale under load? Will the db = be a bottleneck? 15:16 mmcgrath: I'm either way, but if it performs better that'= s good. Can we QA that? 15:16 mmcgrath: we using mysql on the backend? 15:16 < iWolf> I just wonder if we will end up with a whole other set of pr= oblems. 15:16 * abadger1999 wonders how new install smolt checkins and release day= wiki traffic will work out 15:16 jwb: thats just the tables not being converted right, its= still a work in progress. 15:16 iWolf, scalability wont be one of them... 15:16 abadger1999: we should be able to cluster that. and if w= e are using mysql thats pretty easy to do 15:16 iWolf: I don't doubt we will. It's just a matter of decid= ing which set we can live with. 15:17 Would the mediawiki use an existing mysql farm, or would = it have its own servers? 15:17 what do the docs people think? 15:17 mmcgrath, ok... i won't go posting that link profusely ;) 15:17 yingbull: yes, you can do a search on it now and its way = way faster. 15:17 jwb: ;-) 15:17 Has moin ever corrupted itself? 15:17 dgilmore: right now yeah. I don't want to put anything e= lse on postgres for the time being. 15:17 warren: yes. 15:17 mmcgrath: that means its scales for content size, just wo= ndering about actual load. 15:17 mmcgrath, how often? 15:17 warren depends, why? 15:17 just wondering 15:17 mmcgrath: :) i personally much prefer mysql 15:17 dgilmore: heh.  I've had nothing but pain from cluster= ing mysql but it could be how it was being used. 15:17 mmcgrath, because I would expect that from a non-RDBMS mult= i-user concurrent system 15:18 warren: In fairness though the times it got corrupt we we= re probably doing stupid things, there's been tickets about badness getting= stuck in logs, people's accoutns not working right, etc. 15:18 abadger1999: ive had success in the past clustering it 15:18 ive not tried postgres 15:18 the other thing I like about mediawiki is we have multipl= e options for scaling, caching, clustering, etc. 15:18 and they take security seriously 15:18 mmcgrath: i do like that 15:19 warren: they have to its php 15:19 dgilmore: :) 15:19 I'm guessing we would wall this into its own VM guest with = strict selinux policies. 15:19 So if I went to other teams and said "The infrastructure = team would like to migrate to mediawiki" Thats not a false statement as fa= r as anyone here is concerned? 15:19 +1 15:19 +1 15:19 Sounds good. 15:19 +1 15:19 < J5> +1 15:20 what about plone! 15:20 (j/k) 15:20 < EvilBob> yeah thanks 15:20 ok, I'll get that conversation started to the various wik= i users. 15:20 +1 15:20 < iWolf> +0 (defers to the more active members) 15:20 mmcgrath: +1 from the L10n part -- will get back to you wit= h more info in a week, after I meet with the mediawiki i18n folks at FOSDEM. 15:20 +1 15:20 Its not a done deal that we'll move but if we can satisfy= all of the teams, it will be. 15:20 0 :) 15:20 I wonder whether the fact that mediawiki being a very activ= e upstream project will make it harder for us to push any code of ours there 15:20 oh! 15:20 that reminds me. 15:21 glezos, nothing can be harder than upstream moin who doesn'= t want any contributions 15:21 It might also mean that it's less necessary. 15:21 ivazquez: +1 15:21 glezos talked to some of the mediawiki guys and will be t= alking to them at fosdem (i think) so even before we deploy it, there might= be a strong partnership between the Fedora Project and the mediawiki guys.= Which is a very good thing and in stark contrast to the relationship with= moin-upstream. 15:21 +1 15:21 < iWolf> mmcgrath: that's a good thing 15:21 * abadger1999 changes his vote to +100 :-) 15:22 heh 15:22 mmcgrath: the mediawiki guys have been *very* positive in d= iscussing and looking at the issues we'll have, especially in terms of tran= slations. 15:22 ok, well, there's not much else to talk about there, I'm = going to continue working on that script. I've got to get the tables worki= ng right. I'll try to get back with mizmo to see about a better template f= or that place. 15:22 I'll make sure to report back with the meeting's points. 15:22 glezos: I'm happy to hear that. 15:22 ok, next topic 15:23 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure = -- Fedora Hosted. 15:23 Two things here. 15:23 telecon done 15:23 first, we now have mtn support on fedorahosted + trac - h= ttps://fedorahosted.org/elfutils/browser 15:23 spoleeba: excellent. 15:23 The next (and bigger thing) 15:24 serverbeach (who provides all the hosting for fedorahoste= d) would like to do a joint pressrelease about fedorahosted. 15:24 we are taking on sourceforge? 15:24 :) cool 15:24 The last bit that we'd need to get done AFAIK, is the mai= ling lists which jcollie is extremely close to completing. 15:24 https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo 15:24 yay! 15:24 Once thats available, I think we should do the announceme= nt. 15:24 f13: what do you think? 15:24 mmcgrath, does that mean we have our own MTA?  control our = own spam filtering? 15:24 mmcgrath: sounds good 15:25 warren: we have that now, just no one's implemented the s= pam filtering. 15:25 mmcgrath, i officially have no problem with a joint press= -release...do we get to look at it first? 15:25 hrm. 15:25 mmcgrath, ok, I'm very interested in that part. 15:25 spoleeba: I'm sure we could, max and paul are already inv= olved in all of that. 15:25 there was one more thing I wanted done before we left 'beta' s= tage. 15:25 that was raw webspace for hosted projects. 15:25  * mmcgrath actually wanted to not provide that. 15:26 we need that if we're going to have a complete upstream hos= ting solution 15:26 f13: how much storage space did you have in mind for that= ? I figured the wiki would be enough. 15:26 mmcgrath: wiki eh? 15:27 f13: if we're going to do that we need to come up with a = solution quick, they want to do the release soon unless thats the sort of t= hing that doesn't block the official announcement. 15:27 < iWolf> It could always be a later feature enhancement. 15:27 we have a working model in what seth setup for fedorapeople... 15:28 f13: we do have https://fedorahosted.org/releases/p/y/pyt= hon-fedora/ 15:28 we could nfs export across the vpn :) 15:28 f13: except that working model uses full shell accounts. 15:28 something which would require us to completely re-design = our security settings. 15:29 mmcgrath: the wiki is a bit harder to automate attaching to 15:29 but it's not the worst option in the world. 15:29 f13: no need to attach to the wiki, we have the releases = ability now. 15:29 people can scp the files they want up there. 15:29 mmcgrath: uh... so the people who are doing fedora hosted proj= ects /already have/ fedora people space. 15:29 mmcgrath, and using fedorapeople can we sustainably have mu= ltiple upstream project developers put files in a repository and get permis= sions right? 15:29 I'm not sure what you're afraid of. 15:30 f13, 2 or more people working on the same project? 15:30 warren: acls 15:30 mmcgrath: I would have hoped the webspace would be more like '= python-fedora.fedorahosted.org/' 15:30 f13: that does sound like a nice feature to have for a host= ed solution. 15:31 f13: is this something you really want to block the annou= ncement? if it is we need to come up with a solution for it now. 15:31 f13: A couple of hangups 15:31 * jcollie is back 15:31 1. we need a box 15:31 how is fedorahosted.org/releases populated now? 15:31 * mmcgrath thinks this is something we "could" do but shouldn't. 15:31 2. we need to say explicitly to the users: no php, cgi, etc 15:31 mmcgrath: I'd be ok announcing it, if we have at least agreed = upon a future feature of having hosted raw webspace. 15:31 f13, we wouldn't want to put upstream project tarballs into= the mirror structure? 15:32 f13: nah 15:32 erm 15:32 warren: nah 15:32 http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/projects/ 15:32 notting: its in the faq. If you don't have an actual she= ll on there (which most people don't) you just 'scp filename-1.0.tar.gz fed= orahosted.org:projectName' some voodoo on the backend sends it to the right= place. 15:32 If we mirror it, we don't need to back it up. =3D) 15:32 warren: we could announce to mirrors its available though=, run rsync fedorahosted:: 15:32 its in there and available to be synced out. 15:32 mm 15:32 mmcgrath: can we do dns tricks so that .fedorahosted.= org works ? 15:33 I know it's asthetics but it /does/ look better 15:33 f13: what would people see at project.fedorahosted.org ? 15:33 the trac instance? 15:33 mmcgrath: anybody reading a spec file. 15:33 can we assume most of the fedorahosted projects are actual= ly in Fedora? if so, new releases can just entail pushing into fedora.  Th= en we wouldn't need raw webspace ? 15:33 mmcgrath: spec files reference the url to the tarball release 15:33 lmacken: that is terrible for cross-distro 15:34 lmacken: it's extremely rude to tell Debian "get the tarball f= rom the source rpm in Fedora release Blah" 15:34 f13: no I mean if I typed project.fedorahosted.org into m= y browser, what comes up? 15:34 not if we link to the tarballs ? 15:34 mmcgrath: directory listing of https://fedorahosted.org/releas= es/p/y/python-fedora/ 15:34 lmacken: besides, we already have that 15:34 f13: not the hosted page? 15:34 or somehow autopopulate builds onto the wiki 15:34 ok, wait 15:34 ahhh 15:34 f13: ie: not the wiki instance? 15:34 in my /grand/ thought 15:34 * mmcgrath sees what f13 is saying here. 15:35 .fedorahosted.org  would lead to raw webspace tha= t hte project could do whatever within our rules 15:35 a pretty page 15:35 fedorahosted.org/project/ leads you to Trac 15:35 which often isn't nearly as pretty 15:35 and yes, this is a lot like how sourceforge works. 15:35 * mmcgrath thinks thats confusing. 15:35 so what is koji's home page? 15:36 mmcgrath: it depends on what the project wnats to do 15:36 mmcgrath: making every project's home page the Trac instance i= s kind of lame 15:36 f13: why? 15:36 thats confusing though, some projects will use project.fh= =2Eo some will use fh.o/project If I want to check out elfutils, how will = I know which one to go to? 15:37 mmcgrath: you're coming at this with prior knowledge that elfu= tils is hosted with us 15:37 mmcgrath: invalid use case. 15:37 mmcgrath: people who are looking for the upstream of elfutils = is going ot read the elfutils spec or documentation or whatever and be dire= cted at their homepage 15:37 or you'll pull up the Trac instance which teh wiki there could= say "See for our homepage" 15:38 -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk 15:38 f13: I even know elfutils is hosted with us because they = told me, now I want to see it. Which one do I go to? 15:38 mmcgrath, even downloading tarballs from sourceforge is a b= it ambiguous because people have different URL's depending on how they down= loaded it 15:39 mmcgrath, if we want to eliminate different URL's then we h= ave to enforce it with redirects. 15:39 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 15:39 w.r.t download space, if all we have is the wiki, how are = files pushed through that, and does tracwiki scale for serving lots of larg= e files? 15:39 * f13 sees this discussion going nowhere in a hurry 15:39 notting: actually the wiki is horrible for pushing files. 15:39 right now elfutils points directly to koji for new release= s. 15:39 f13: Are we more like launchpador sourceforge? 15:39 mmcgrath: 'the wiki' are you talking about Moin or Trac? 15:39 (Where we want to be) 15:39 * mmcgrath doesn't compare us to either of them. 15:39 f13: Trac. 15:39 IIRC Trac just is a direct link to the attachment on the files= ystem 15:40 Ubuntu doenst bother to make tarballs, they build directly = =66rom bzr on launchpad for things that they are upstream. 15:40 abadger1999: I'm more familiar with sf. 15:40 http://sourceforge.net/projects/pidgin vs pidgin.sf.net 15:41 hrm, perhaps not the best example 15:41 Just wondering because sf provides web space via shell= access while launchpad provides an external links section where you can li= st a home page if you want more than they provide. 15:41 but when I dreampt up fedora hosted, I pictured Trac as one of= the tools a hosted project would have, not the /only/ tool. 15:41 * warren entirely supports f13 on this. 15:42 and where a number of projects might have a rich home page for= users, and use the Trac instance as a development tool 15:42 * mmcgrath saw it as a simple and complete set of tools. 15:42 ferexample, we may have a project that wants just 1) downl= oad space 2) git + gitweb 3) a mailing list. how does trac help them? 15:42 that said, maybe our "customers" are perfectly happy with only= having Trac. 15:42 f13: what can you do on raw space that you can't do with = trac wiki? 15:42 mmcgrath: well, the page controls are better 15:42 notting: FWIW, we have lots of people that don't have a t= rac instance. 15:42 mmcgrath: html, easily manage content programatically 15:42 f13: umm 15:42 wait 15:43 Hmm.. I've seen trac used as a pretty functional homepage = as well 15:43 http://cherrypy.org 15:43 and some people don't want trac at all because it can be a = distraction 15:43 f13: are we talking about RAW stuff like php or cgis b/c = that's not bloody likely 15:43 mmcgrath: right, but if they want to tie together a link t= o gitweb, a link to the ML, etc. ... trac is the only solution atm 15:43 The bottom line is we can't provide everything to everyon= e. 15:43 we have a "web" solution do we need 2? 15:43 skvidal: no of course not, there would be restriction around w= hat could be used. 15:43 Hosted should be a menu of services that upstream projects = can pick from. 15:43 warren: it is and will be. 15:43 but whats on the menu? 15:43 lets look at 108 as a great example 15:44 people hated 108 because to get anything on the web, they eith= er had to fuck with wiki, or svn 15:44 what they really wanted was the ability to just rsync (via ssh= ) content into a dir 15:44 * mmcgrath is pretty sure thats not why people hated 108 15:44 it was closed source and complicated. Trac is neither of= those. 15:44 mmcgrath: that was on eof the big complaints I heard from a lo= t of people trying to use it to host projects. 15:44 mmcgrath: from the usability side 15:44 Ok, lets take a step back. 15:44 is this a blocker to the announcement? 15:45 not imo 15:45 I'm leaning toward no, as long as we have a roadmap for someth= ing like this we can make public 15:45 We should at least define exactly what we want and write it= as a "coming soon" feature on the roadmap. 15:45 Ok, then we should discuss this at another time. 15:45 yeah, as long as we have a plan so we can tell people 'yes= ', 'no', 'yes, but in 3 months' when they ask for foo, bar, or baz 15:45 * mmcgrath is already tired of the slippery slope we're headed down = with fedorahosted. 15:45 * ricky gets here. 15:46 everything some says 'wouldn't it be nice" we've implemen= ted the feature, its got to stop. There is beauty in simplicity. 15:46  * f13 notes that he's been making noise about having web space for p= rojects since day 1. 15:46 and some how, over 100 projects have thrived while not ha= ving web space. 15:46 mmcgrath: i want a pony 15:46 mmcgrath: uh, other than adding additional SCMs, and a couple = trac plugins, what exactly ahve we done? 15:46 f13: I'm sorry I just don't remember that at all.  I'm pr= obably rembering it wrong but I don't remember anything about raw webspace = ever. 15:46 mmcgrath, this is one of the few things that we really need= to make hosted complete. 15:47 < J5> I have to agree.  By giving people the world we make it harder = to create a good experience 15:47 f13: just that.  I want to make sure it stops there. 15:47 warren: I think hosted is complete. 15:47 is the scp fedorahosted:blah magic work for anything? 15:47 or just blah-1.2.3.tar.gz? 15:47 notting: only if you don't have a shell account. 15:47 scp anything fedorahosted:project 15:47 -!- mbacovsk [n=3Dmbacovsk@44.252.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit Read er= ror: 110 (Connection timed out) 15:47 warren: excpet for mailing. 15:47 so we have webspace ;) 15:47 f13, I do recall that from day 1 as well. 15:47 mmcgrath, which is already on the roadmap 15:48 mmcgrath: perhaps we should survey our current customers, and = potential customers (108 holdouts, et.redhat.com folks, people.redhat.com f= olks) about it. 15:48 f13: I think thats the wrong way to go. We need to have = in mind a solution that we want it to be.  If its the right tool for those = people they will come, if not they won't. 15:48 f13: most if not all people haviing people.redhat.com spa= ce ahve fedorapeople.org space 15:48 we can't conform to everyone's needs on this or it will c= onsume ALL of our time like 108's did the 108 people. 15:49 okay 15:49 let's chill 15:49 everyone 15:49 mmcgrath, this is not a slippery slope.  Raw web space is o= ne of the fixed set of things people expect for an upstream project. 15:49 skvidal: :) 15:49 this is a free 'value added' fedora service. If we end u= p spending lots of time on it, thats less time for other things. 15:49 lets move on now 15:49 yes 15:49 we're not blocking announcing it 15:49 we can sort this out later 15:49 no we can announce as is 15:49 on a day when we're all less busy 15:49 i think its done being a beta 15:49 and less stress-y 15:49 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure = -- Asterisk 15:50 :) it works 15:50 we'll learn a lot about what people want from tickets 15:50 The Board has put a higher priority on our asterisk setup. 15:50 eyeroll 15:50 sorry, the board has an asterisk fetish for odd reasons :) 15:50 asterisk as it stands has enough shortcommings that it wo= n't be usable for us without a few things. 15:50 skvidal, i have an n810 now.. id like to use it for..some= thing 15:50 1) they've requested town-hall style meetings. 15:50 skvidal: we do 15:50 dgilmore: :) 15:50 jcollie: do you want to talk about that for a moment and = the implementation you tested? 15:50 ujh sure 15:50 erg 15:51 it's ticket 395 15:51 .ticket 395 15:51 :) 15:51 mmcgrath: #395 (Audio Streaming of Fedora Board Conference = Calls) - Fedora Infrastructure - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/f= edora-infrastructure/ticket/395 15:52 basically the board wants to have some conferences calls s= treamed out so that 10s or maybe even 100s of people can listen in live 15:52 taking feedback via irc 15:52 so i've figured out a way to get the audio out of the aste= risk conference call and stream it using flumotion 15:53 jcollie: and its all FOSS? 15:53 yup 15:53 streaming ogg 15:53 jcollie, thats a nice valentines day present 15:53 its streaming ogg/vorbis right now but i was going to test= ogg/speex 15:54 fluendo even has a java applet for those unfortunate to be= running windows 15:54 the java applet is gpl too i think 15:54 cool 15:54 bbl 15:54 * mmcgrath notes he used this system the other day.  It actually wor= ked, rather well. 15:54 the java applet isn't in fedora yet but i have a srpm unde= r development 15:55 good deal 15:55 Does IcedTea support audio yet? 15:55 jcollie: sounds great 15:55 jcollie, so where is it at right now? does all the board= members need to test it? 15:55 also, i'd prefer to use a development version of flumotion= than what is in fedora right now but i'm not stuck on that 15:55 spoleeba: its not at that point yet 15:55 our asterisk deployment isn't even official yet, we'll ne= ed to get that finalized and in puppet before we start considering these th= ings. 15:56 i just did a technology preview to see if i could get the = audio out of asterisk and into flumotion 15:56 mmcgrath, the big concern was making sure connected audio= source clients...weren't stupidly configed 15:56 yeah, we need to make sure that all the board members have= decent headsets and a working SIP client setup 15:56 jcollie, ha! 15:56 jcollie, 'decent' 15:57 the mics built into laptops pick up too much ambient noise 15:57 mmcgrath: sorry on another call... yay for Mediawiki :) 15:57 spoleeba: actually you can get by with some really cheap o= nes - i use these generic labtec ones 15:57 jcollie, i want to test my n810 :-> 15:57 I'm actually working on trying to get some dial in number= s for that. We'll see how it goes but areacodes in boston and raleigh woul= d help a lot. 15:57 so no need to spend $100s 15:58 jcollie, just let me know when you wwant me to test it 15:58 dial in numbers should be pretty easy to find 15:58 888-fed-ora1? 15:58 umm 15:58 eww 15:58 most of the board brought headsets when we looked at usin= g asterisk for board meetings 15:58 -!- jmtaylor [n=3Djason@69.212.251.202]  has joined #fedora-meeting 15:58 notting: the 888 numbers require per minute charges. 15:59 Ok, hey guys we're running out of time.  There's a couple= of other things I wanted to get to. 15:59 notting: we have to pay for that 15:59 i'm also thinking about using an IRC bot to control the co= nference 15:59 jcollie: awesome 15:59 mmcgrath: move on 15:59 jcollie: sorry to cut you off :( 15:59 yeah, the board doesn't want to do this until sometime in = april anyway 15:59 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure = -- FAS2 15:59 we're moving to database with that, abadger1999 has been = very helpful and ricky and I will be back on it hard core next week. 15:59 and last thing 16:00 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure = -- My Fedora 16:00 J5: how's that going? 16:00  * mmcgrath hopes J5 is still around. 16:00 < J5> been working on the build page - it has been slow since I am le= arning new things 16:00 < J5> But it is coming on nicely 16:00 is there a demo up anywhere yet? 16:01 < J5> just in git 16:01 < J5> I'll get something up by next week 16:01 < J5> the end of next week that is 16:01  no worries.  Do you have an ETA for when you'd like= to deploy? 16:01 Probably sometime after FAS2, I assume? 16:01 < J5> yes 16:02 < J5> well we can get the non-login stuff (it is still useful for sea= rching packages and quickly navigating them) 16:02 16:02 < J5> before fas2 16:02 J5: thanks for that. 16:02 alrighty, before we go 16:02 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure = -- Open Floor. 16:02 Anyone have anything else? 16:02 how about them backups? 16:03 ahh, yes dgilmore has been working on backups. 16:03 yay for all the work dgilmore and mmcgrath put in to make = tape backups work 16:03 dgilmore: how's that going? 16:03 skvidal: the backup on /mnt/koji is running very slowly 16:03 * mmcgrath notes tapes are in and AFAIK backing. 16:03 dgilmore: how long do you suspect a full koji backup will= take? 16:03 mmcgrath: at the rate we are going days 16:03 how many though? 16:04 what kind of tape hw do we have? 16:04 its a TL2000 with LTO-3 tapes. 16:04 are we still using bacula? 16:04 since 10pm cst we have backed up 300gb of 2tb 16:04 jcollie: yeah 16:05 this just uses a single LTO drive then? 16:05 jcollie: yeah. 16:05 dgilmore: anything else? We should probably wrap it up. 16:05 hmm too bad 16:06 mmcgrath: its running and is working 16:06 we will need to do some test restores 16:06 yeah 16:06 but thats it 16:07 k. 16:07 * mmcgrath looks forward to that. 16:07 Ok, anyone have anything else? 16:07 * dgilmore has nothing 16:07 nope 16:08 allllllrighty 16:08 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure = -- Meeting Closed