I18N/Meetings/2007-11-29

= I18N project Features Meeting for F9 2007-11-29 Minutes =


 * 2007-11-29 0500 UTC on #fedora-meeting at Freenode

Agenda

 * Handwriting recognition for Chinese characters
 * IM Desktop integration
 * Fonts
 * Thai fonts and support
 * new default Japanese font: VLGothic-fonts
 * additional fonts for current languages
 * Other proposals

Log
15:00:22 ---	juhp has changed the topic to: Fedora I18N project Features Meeting start | Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule 15:01:19 	ok, welcome to the I18N project Features meeting! 15:04:37 *	warren always thinks "zombo.com" whenever he sees "welcome" 15:05:01 	hey warren! 15:05:11 -->	keimoto_co (i=keimoto@nat/redhat/x-e4419f3a828a7375) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:05:34 	hi tagoh3, pravins, keimoto_co 15:05:49 	juhp☺ ih 15:05:49 	I wasn't planning on being here, but I guess I'll stick around 15:05:51 	warren: hmm, no flash plugins is installed here ;) 15:05:54 	is there an agenda list? 15:06:07 	tagoh3, zombo.com is so awesome that it is worth installing flash plugin 15:06:21 	aha 15:06:28 	hi juhp 15:06:44 	warren: agenda - well we have some potential features but no other agenda than that 15:07:12 	posted on fedora-i18n list - I didn't get round to putting the meeting details in the wiki... 15:07:29 -->	dychen_ (i=dingyich@nat/redhat/x-a5e2e9625c7a0847) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:07:42 	Some of the current possible features we are considering include: 15:07:42 	- Handwriting recognition for Chinese characters 15:07:42 	- IM Desktop integration 15:07:42 	- Fonts 15:07:42 	 - Thai fonts and support 15:07:42 	  - new default Japanese font: VLGothic-fonts 15:07:43 	  - additional fonts for current languages 15:07:43 	Other suggestions and proposals are most welcome. 15:08:00 	hi dychen_ 15:08:11 	Hi juhp 15:08:25 	suggestion: Package  for  15:08:37 	hi 15:08:40 	but this is off-topic 15:09:21 >warren<	for livna? 15:10:17 	yes we will definitely get some additional fonts for indic scripts 15:10:44 	which are under GPL 15:12:44 	that is good 15:14:14 	waiting for the wqy heiti into fedora also :) 15:14:30 	keimoto_co: it is already there no? 15:14:41 	f9? 15:14:49 	and f8 and f7 iirc 15:15:08 	it was added after f8 was released afaicr 15:15:19 	oic 15:15:41 -->	phuang_office (n=phuang@211.103.237.35) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:15:50 	or am I confusing with another font.. 15:16:12 	I got a enhancement request for a filename encoding converter dev. 15:16:23 -->	huzheng (n=huzheng@211.103.237.35) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:16:40 	keimoto_co: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/wqy-zenhei-fonts 15:16:58 	keimoto_co: oh? 15:17:33 *	keimoto_co 's gonna try. (off-topic) 15:17:47 	anyway shall we start with the features on the list so far - there were not many more suggestions posted to the list 15:18:33 	let's 15:19:05 	* Handwriting recognition for Chinese characters 15:19:45 	dychen_ has been working on this for a while and has some nice code would should be released soon 15:20:36 	so a lot of the work has already been done but I think it would be nice to list it in the features to give more attention to it 15:20:56 	One of the problems is the name of it. 15:20:57 	we're hoping it will have better accuracy than tomoe 15:21:11 	dychen_: right - still need a name for it :) 15:21:33 	but guess the name is not needed for the feature proposal but anyway 15:22:06 ---	nman64 is now known as nman64_away 15:22:11 	dychen_: are you happy to write a feature proposal for it? 15:22:39 	Sure 15:23:17 	dychen_: ok cool 15:23:37 	Are there any template or guideline for me to follow? 15:23:51 	probably good to look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/FeatureList for that 15:24:57 -->	amitphukan (n=test@59.160.127.177) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:25:09 -->	omar (n=mohammed@59.145.136.1) has joined #fedora-meeting 15:25:42 	Thanks juhp. 15:26:55 	* IM Desktop integration 15:27:09 	I'll finish it before next team meeting. 15:27:53 	great 15:28:16 	dychen_: probably you can make a draft page first before submitting it 15:28:38 	IM Desktop integration, we really need a full wiki page describing the proposed changes 15:28:43 	this effects more than just i18n 15:29:03 	we have less than 2 months until F9 Alpha 15:29:26 	warren: right. good idea 15:29:52 	juhp, tagoh3: either of your blogs on fedora planet? 15:30:01 	warren: mine is 15:30:08 	juhp, tagoh3: rest of the development community has to hear stuff from you, so they know you exist =) 15:30:28 	juhp, tagoh3: post occasional summaries of stuff going on 15:30:45 	warren: yes I have been neglecting my blog recently 15:30:47 	warren: no, I'm not there. 15:30:59 	I gotta sleep 15:31:09 	really need the IM Desktop Integration stuff on a wiki page 15:31:12 	yes so this is going to be quite a bit of work and it has not started yet 15:31:24 	warren: yes that would be good 15:31:26 	I realize it is important work to be done 15:31:31 	right 15:31:32 	juhp, saw the Features process? 15:31:36 	yes 15:31:41 	juhp, each feature for F9 has its own page 15:31:47 	I mentioned some links above... 15:31:48 	good place to start 15:31:50 	nod 15:31:57 	oh, I see =) 15:31:59 	ok good night 15:32:20 	and I agree completely that this is really the feature on our list that really needs a feature page if it is going to happen 15:32:29 	ok see you warren 15:33:25 	I'll make a draft for that 15:33:49 	what does IM Desktop integration consists of? 15:34:48 	tagoh3: great 15:35:02 	keimoto_co: one of possible features that contains is, to enable/disable IM without restarting the desktop say. 15:35:31 	scim-restart does better than last year 15:36:01 	keimoto_co: scim-restart is a very bad hack... 15:36:23 	we can probably get rid of it after this anyway 15:36:42 	well we should probably get rid of it anyway ;-) 15:36:43 	also you won't need to restart the desktop if you change your preferrable IM on im-chooser say. 15:37:00 	tagoh3: right 15:37:18 	tagoh3: I was just wondering about IM control on the app level 15:37:36 	wonder if it would be possible to start IM just for one application 15:37:59 	(IM == input method, btw for other listening in and confusing:) 15:38:02 	others 15:38:10 	juhp: good point - it could be the part of this feature. but need the different implementation for that 15:38:29 	right maybe that would be done later or as an enhancement 15:38:34 	hmm 15:39:17 	tagoh3: do you want to briefly recap on the design/implementation ideas? 15:40:37 	juhp: sure, if necessary 15:40:39 	I think we need to talk to upstream (freedesktop/gtk/qt) about it too 15:41:33 	I wonder XIM too if something can be done there 15:41:36 	about 15:41:37 <--	StillBob has quit ("Leaving") 15:41:53 -->	StillBob (n=bob@fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen) has joined #Fedora-Meeting 15:41:58 -->	EvilBob (n=bob@fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen) has joined #Fedora-Meeting 15:42:15 <--	StillBob has quit (Remote closed the connection) 15:42:50 	juhp: about XIM, I can't say sure thing so far. 15:43:27 	tagoh3: hmm yeah would need some kind of bridging server? 15:44:04 	juhp: maybe 15:44:38 <--	GeroldKa has quit ("Verlassend") 15:45:17 	anyway I think this is a pretty important feature so I guess we should start on it soon 15:45:49 	as warren pointed out f9 alpha is not that far off 15:46:11 	I like to offer any assistance I can with it 15:46:14 	anyway, the point to do this is, to make a facility to change the IM settings on demand at the toolkit side, with xsettings or gconf or whatever. and put the management daemon to control IM/configuration for toolkit etc 15:46:29 	right 15:47:08 	tagoh3: do you think it makes sense to do it first for gtk/gnome and then extend to kde or is it better just to target both from the beginning? 15:47:51 	juhp: if the resource is limited, yes, sounds reasonable. 15:48:19 	right doing gtk first might be more realistic 15:48:45 	ok thanks 15:48:58 	anything else on that, or shall we move on? 15:50:30 	ok 15:51:03 	we have various things related to: 15:51:06 	* Fonts 15:51:31 	some of them might be features but not necessarily all 15:51:46 	in the mail there was: 15:51:49 	 - Thai fonts and support 15:51:49 	 - new default Japanese font: VLGothic-fonts 15:51:49 	 - additional fonts for current languages 15:51:59 	pravins: mentioned more Indic fonts? 15:52:11 	for new fonts it is postly a matter of packaging 15:52:12 	yes 15:52:42 	no it might require maintenance also 15:53:00 	so those probably need not appear as features as long as someone is taking care of packaging them and getting them reviewed and accepted 15:53:18 	pravins: sure - but maintainence is not part of the features per se :) 15:53:38 	pravins: do you know who is going to submit those fonts to fedora? 15:54:02 	one of our big gaps currently on fonts is Thai 15:54:27 	not yet 15:54:32 	so I am really hoping we can clear any legal issue and get one or more Thai fonts added to the distro 15:54:34 	but i can do that :) 15:54:44 	pravins: ok - great! 15:54:52 	pravins: what is the name of the font? 15:54:58 	samyak 15:55:02 	aha 15:55:06 	http://sarovar.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=461 15:55:37 	(but I feel a bit hesitant to propose the thai fonts as a feature at least until we are clear on the legal side:) 15:55:52 	pravins: which script(s) does it cover? 15:56:14 	aha see some familiar names there :) 15:57:20 	http://sarovar.org/projects/samyak/ 15:57:36 	five indic scripts 15:57:49 	i will look towards this & get back to u 15:57:50 	:) 15:58:19 	great 15:59:00 	pravins: please feel free to go ahead and package/submit it for/to fedora 15:59:19 	tagoh3: there is also the new Japanese default 15:59:33 	I think not too many changes needed for that 15:59:41 	maybe just anaconda? 15:59:53 	I already updated comps-f9 16:00:28 	so rawhide should be using it already perhaps 16:00:46 	and the dependency in fonts-japanese 16:00:50 	ah yes 16:00:56 	some configuration changes may be necessary 16:01:23 	ah reminds me we are thinking of getting rid of all the meta-packages for f9 16:01:25 <--	sankarshan has quit (Remote closed the connection) 16:01:37 	tagoh3: ok right 16:02:51 	any more thoughts on fonts 16:03:06 	or other potential fonts features? 16:03:44 -->	sankarshan (n=sankarsh@fedora/sankarshan) has joined #fedora-meeting 16:04:40 	* Other features ideas 16:05:08 	ok I think those were the main ideas brought up prior to this meeting 16:05:18 	any other ideas? 16:06:03 	keimoto_co: you mentioned something about filename conversion? 16:06:09 <keimoto_co>	yes 16:06:10 	what was that? 16:06:23 *	keimoto_co get the bugzilla URL. 16:07:00 <keimoto_co>	okay, there is not initially requested on fedora. 16:07:31 <keimoto_co>	anyways, the request is about a tool for converting the filename in one encoding to another. 16:07:38 	keimoto_co: so it is a convmv bug? 16:07:49 	hm 16:08:00 <keimoto_co>	e.g. in XP, filenames are in big5 for Trad Chinese but not unicode. 16:08:00 -->	spoleeba (n=one@fedora/Jef) has joined #fedora-meeting 16:08:14 >keimoto_co<	what is the bz no? 16:08:26 	keimoto_co: I think convmv can handle that 16:08:36 <keimoto_co>	someone wants the system-wide one-click solution might be 16:08:50 	or is it a gui request? 16:10:06 	anyway 16:10:21 <keimoto_co>	need to clarify w/ reporter then 16:10:30 	there are a few ideas floating around but I am not sure if anyone is going to work on them 16:10:33 	like: 16:11:50 	- ATK support for SCIM 16:12:13 	- On-screen keyboard 16:12:17 	keimoto_co: you can change the mount option from the property dialog of the drive icon on nautilus, to have "iocharset=big5" say. 16:12:52 	if he/she don't want to convert the filenames actually 16:12:58 	ah yeah 16:13:14 <keimoto_co>	tagoh3☺ thx for info 16:13:47 <keimoto_co>	juhp☺ gok is on-screen keyboard, but not so multi-lang. :) 16:13:52 	anyone have anything else? 16:14:15 	keimoto_co: yeah gok seems targeted at a11y 16:16:40 <--	mdomsch has quit ("Leaving") 16:16:42 	pravins, paragn, phuang_office: anything you want to bring up? 16:17:14 	and huzheng 16:17:26 	or did I miss anyone else? 16:17:59 	no 16:18:06 	I guess major thing fro indic is to get more and more fonts available in Fedora and have them working properly with upstream pango 16:18:16 	aha 16:18:45 	paragn: new coverage or alternative fonts? 16:18:54 	both 16:18:56 	ok 16:19:37 	paragn: is there a danger that alternative fonts might be incompatible (conflict) under pango say? 16:19:40 -->	lizhang (n=LingNing@211.103.237.35) has joined #fedora-meeting 16:20:16 	we already have Malayalam issue going on 16:20:25 	I suppose better Qt Indic support might make a good a feature? 16:20:28 	paragn: nod 16:21:13 	paragn: do we need a feature for that you think? 16:21:48 	juhp, qt comes with own scripting tools so I guess its support is good for indic 16:22:32 	I mean its not needed to depend on pango like gnome used to 16:23:07 	right, but currently there are quite a lot of problems I think - hopefully it will improve 16:23:26 	ok last call - anything else? 16:23:38 	sure we will look at them :) 16:24:23 	otherwise let's close the meeting in a few minutes 16:24:27 	juhp, nothing from my side 16:24:36 	ok thanks 16:24:53 	juhp, thanks 16:25:52 	juhp: thanks 16:27:54 	ok thanks for the meeting to everyone who participated :) 16:28:50 	I will (try to) upload the log to the wiki 16:29:31 	* meeting closed