QA/Meetings/20090722

= Attendees =


 * Adam Williamson (adamw)
 * David Pravec (dpravec)
 * Jesse Keating (f13)
 * jeff_hann
 * James Laska (jlaska)
 * Josh Boyer (jwb)
 * Mel Chua (mchua)
 * Kevin Fenzi (nirik)
 * John Poelstra (poelcat)
 * Sebastian Dziallas (sdziallas)
 * Jóhann Guðmundsson (viking-ice)
 * Will Woods (wwoods)

Regrets:
 * Kamil Paral (kparal)

= Agenda =

Proposed meeting agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

 * 1) [jlaska] - Notify team list (fedora-test-list) to solicit volunteers for help with Debugging pages (see http://tinyurl.com/n6n24f)
 * 2) * http://jlaska.livejournal.com/5693.html

adamw suggested what would be tricky about this is finding out what the necessary info _is_ in the cases where we want debugging pages. adamw and viking_ice indicated their movie preference (see below). f13 suggested the idea of conducting maintainer interviews to use as information gathering sessions to collect debugging information.


 * 1) [jlaska] - Create a QA:Meeting matrix similar to Bugzappers_meeting_matrix to determine best fit for meeting slots
 * 2) * See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA_Meeting_Matrix

adamw suggested a nice web app for coordinating meeting times in the future - http://whenisgood.net

QA Meeting time change
See fedora-test-list mail and QA_Meeting_Matrix

The team selected Monday at 16:00 UTC as the new QA meeting time.

Alpha blocker bug day#2
In preparation for this Friday's blocker bug day#2, jlaska asked the group for volunteers to help announce and summarize the event (in accordance with the draft SOP ).


 * Adamw offered to send out bug zapper announcements
 * Jlaska will send out a summary of the blocker bug meeting
 * Poelcat noted the meeting time has changed to 11:00am (EDT) to avoid a conflict with the FESCO meeting

F13 suggested it would be good to perform some rawhide testing prior to. Jlaska reminded folks about Liam's email requesting installer testing for the Alpha Candidate (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00429.html). Some discussion followed about a Alpha blocker

Alpha test compose
The F12 Alpha schedule has a test compose being handed off next week (2009-07-29). See Liam's announcement at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00429.html inviting testers to contribute installation test results against the upcoming Alpha Candidate.

F13 had issue with the announcement:
 * 1) [Liam] called it a candidate.
 * 2) [Liam]'s inviting the world to participate, but we're not delivering it to the world. It's not being mirrored.

F13 indicated that download servers fail to keep up with the demand, and wwoods suggested the slower download speed prevents testers from testing the ISO's. Some discussion followed, with several participants offering suggestions (mirrors or bittorrent) and others offering historical perspective to the problem. Poelcat and jlaska suggested this is more an issue for the fedora-infrastructure team to devise a clever solution for ... and not for the QA or RelEng teams to solve.

Jlaska took an action item to engage with fedora-infrastructure team for a solution.

Adamw asked why we are asking for install testing if blocked by. Jlaska offered that Liam is getting the pages and test coordination started early

Jlaska suggested point#1 is a minor wording oversight, and point#2 is not a concern for QA.

Dracut gone raw
Features/Dracut is planned to hit rawhide in the next few days. Viking_ice requested discussion around dracut in the meeting.

According to hhoyer, dracut will be landing in rawhide any day now. hhoyer also addressed some of my comments in the feature page (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/Dracut) and indicated additional information on a contingency plan and test plan would be arriving soon. Harald also offered his thoughts on the current state of dracut tests:

Thorny areas (potentially buggy): Should work: untested:
 * strange raid setups
 * incomplete/degraded raid setups
 * MD, DM Raid
 * LVM
 * cryptoLUKS
 * NFS
 * iSCSI
 * NBD
 * everything else.

Not yet implemented:
 * loop mount
 * FCoE
 * ipv6

Viking_ice asked additional questions around testing dracut, including:
 * 1) Are we rolling live iso' s with dracut (including gnome, kde and XFCE spins)?
 * 2) if they are built using our build system?

Viking_ice volunteered to reach out ot Harald for additional information to help guide Dracut testing now and for the Dracut test day.

AutoQA update
Updates from wwoods on initial automation efforts Updates from dpravec on autotest package testing

dpravec suggested many co-workers in Brno feel we should use beaker and not autotest. Jlaska noted that the beaker project is still maturing and does not yet meet the full test automation needs of the israwhidebroken.com project. Wwoods later noted that beaker is inventory / system provisioning, it currently lacks a test harness and scheduler.

dpravec noted there was no updates on the testing of the autotest package, and would have more results by Monday.

Wwoods updated the group that the first 4 test cases of QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan have been automated and are running in demo instances of the autotest server. The next step will be automating the installation test cases using some incantation of libvirt/virt-manager.

F13 expressed concern we're falling short of "do something useful ASAP". Jlaska indicated that the group is progressing towards the israwhidebroken.com target date of Aug 18th. F13 stated ''... this whole thing started back at FUDCon Boston with the idea of doing something useful in 3 weeks, useful in 3 months, useful in 3 quarters. So I feel that I've failed miserably in delivering something useful to our maintainers based on those timelines.'' Jlaska, wwoods and adamw pointed out some project highlights since FAD and noted things are progressing towards stated objectives. F13 concluded expressing frustrations that his window to help the project is closing as the release engineering commitments increase.

Sugar on a stick Test Day
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00443.html

sdziallas informed the team he has been doing the Sugar on a Stick work for Sugar Labs lately, which is basically a rebranded Fedora base system with the Sugar packages on top. We're really interested in maintaining a good connection to the Fedora community (given that I started as a Fedora guy, too)... and would also like to test the Sugar implementation in Fedora.

Discussion followed on how best to offer a test day slot, the result is a Sept 3, 2009 Sugar on a stick test day slot.

Mchua noted the event could be used to test the state of mediawiki+semantic integration.

Improving Rawhide
dpravec noted that from talking with Fedora users, seems to me that best what we can do to improve quality of releases is to make some smoother rawhide repository, which will contain only packages without serious bug or dependency problems. similar to debian unstable/testing... this would enourage people to test latest (or week old) packages.

f13 noted we're going to get essentially that if his no frozen rawhide proposal goes though.

Discussion followed comparing difference between the debian and fedora development models.


= Upcoming QA events =


 * 2009-07-24 - Alpha Blocker Bug Meeting #2
 * 2009-07-28 - BugZappers/Triage_days
 * 2009-07-29 - Alpha Test Compose
 * 2009-07-27 - QA/Meetings/20090727 at 16:00 UTC

= Action items =


 * [Viking-Ice] - updating meeting channel page w/ new QA time
 * [jlaska] - discuss ideas with fedora-infrastructure for getting test candidates out to testers

= IRC Transcript =

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