Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20060622

Summary
Present from FESCo: thl, Sopwith, jpo, scop, jeremy (somewhat), warren, skvidal, ensc


 * thl apologizes -- he didn't write the meeting summaries for the past two Meetings yet
 * FESCo future/election
 * thl > | everything working as expected so far?
 * abadger1999> | No one's complained. And I haven't received any mails from the system that thing aren't working.
 * warren's access to some machines was limited due to the election -- he can't do CVS branching anymore. We should make sure that such things aren't necessary in the future (if possible). Sopwith / the infrastructure group will take care of creating CVS branches duing the meeting
 * Encourage Extras reviews
 * FAB is watching us -- see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-06-20 in the part "Fedora Extras Steering Committee discussed the sponsorship lag question. A summary, as provided by SethVidal, follows. [...] "
 * thl> | everyone should read that summary and we really need to find ways to improve the whole situation -> Topic for next FESCo
 * warren> | I maintain that the only solution is more education and better documentation. I think Tibbs' mail on this topic is right on track.
 * tibbs will take care of improving the documentation in the wiki from now on
 * Incompatible package upgrade policy
 * still on the schedule
 * directfb still was not updated
 * It's a bit unclear on just what this topic covers.
 * we really need somebody to driver this forward; we'll put it on the plate for the new FESCo and ignore it for now
 * scop> | just to remind, spot said that he'd work something out of the discussions
 * FC3 branch of perl-Net-SNMP
 * one of the nagios plugins requires it and Infrastructure machines run FC3 it seems.
 * creation of that branch permitted
 * minimal buildroot problem
 * wart posted to f-e-l on that topic. Any ideas what we can do about it? (missing elfutils -> binaries don't get stripped)
 * elfutils probably needs to be added to the build roots on FC4 (maybe FC3 also)
 * here seem to be some kind of problem with python as well
 * if was agreed on to simply discuss this further on the list; if it looks like it should be necessary that elfutils or python need to be added we simply do it without further discussion

Full Log
0:00           --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress 0:00 <        thl> | hy everyone 0:00           --> | Sopwith (Undisclosed)  has joined #fedora-extras 0:00 <        thl> | who's around? 0:00 <    Sopwith> | heya 0:00 <        jpo> | hi 0:01 <       tibbs> | Howdy. 0:01 | hello. 0:02 | scop: Thanks. ACLs on that page seem to be permissive. 0:02             * | jeremy is somewhat around 0:02             * | scop is around 0:02             * | nirik is drinking coffee in the gallery. 0:02 <        thl> | First I must apologize 0:03 <        thl> | I didn't write the meeting summaries for the past two weeks yet 0:03 <        thl> | To much to do at work in the past two weeks 0:03 <        thl> | and since the beginning of this week I'm on holiday 0:03 <        thl> | and even now I didn#t find enough time :-/ Sorry 0:03             * | bpepple is lurking around. 0:03           --> | warren (Unknown)  has joined #fedora-extras 0:03 <        thl> | anyway, let's start 0:03             * | scop is on vacation next week starting from today, BTW 0:03           --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- 0:04           --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- FESCo future/election 0:04 <        thl> | abadger1999, Sopwith, everything working as expected so far? 0:05 | No one's complained. 0:05             * | skvidal is here 0:05 | And I haven't received any mails from the system that thing aren't working. 0:05 <   dgilmore> | worked for me 0:05 <     skvidal> | sorry, I was a little late 0:05             * | nirik just voted fine. 0:05             * | bpepple voted, and had no problems. 0:05             * | skvidal voted, no problems 0:06 <        thl> | okay, then let's move on 0:06 <      warren> | only problem I have is being cut off from fedora server login for 2 weeks 0:06 <        thl> | warren, sorry 0:06 <     warren> | I can't do CVS branching 0:06 <        thl> | we should have a better solution for the next vote 0:06 | thl: Did an announcement that voting is officially open get sent to the list? 0:07 <     warren> | thl, how are we going to deal with CVS branching? 0:07 <        thl> | abadger1999, I didn#t send one but jwb or bpepple send one iirc 0:07 <        thl> | abadger1999, that enough? 0:07 <        thl> | warren, good question :-/ 0:07 | That's fine. 0:07 <       scop> | Sopwith could take care of the branching? 0:07 <     warren> | Sopwith doesn't know what to branch 0:08 <    Sopwith> | You can tell me. 0:08 <     warren> | I regularly need to read the reviews and mail people went there are problems. 0:08 <    Sopwith> | Or you could train someone else to back you up. 0:08 <     warren> | OK, I'll just forward all requests through sopwith during these 2 weeks. 0:08 <     warren> | It was normally me and spot doing it. 0:09 | We shouldn't really need to totally be cutoff... Can our shells on app1 and app2 be changed to disallow login or something? 0:09 <        thl> | Sopwith, warren, we really should make sure that we acoid such problems in the future 0:09 <    Sopwith> | warren: OK 0:09 <     Sopwith> | abadger1999: Yea, it's not impossible to configure things that way eventually, just not something I can do in five minutes. 0:10 <    Sopwith> | And to pursue a tangent, warren shouldn't really be the only one that can do this stuff, if it is so critical to Extras. 0:10 <     warren> | Sopwith, buildsys is a different auth? I still have access there now (which is good) 0:10 <    Sopwith> | sounds like spot can handle it, correct? 0:10 <     warren> | Sopwith, spot is also in the election 0:10 <    Sopwith> | warren: OK, didn't notice that, I'll go annoy him too :) 0:10 <      warren> | Sopwith, generally Extras people do things in Extras, and are in the election 0:10 <     Sopwith> | nod 0:11 <       nirik> | perhaps moving forward the voting could be on a diffrent machine/network? 0:11 <     Sopwith> | warren: Let's try to fix this over the next week or two 0:11 <   > | Sopwith: ping? 0:11              * | thl will move to the next point on the schedule soon 0:11 <      warren> | Sopwith, branching requirement enforcement is one of the things I hope we can automate with the package database. 0:12 <     Sopwith> | warren: nod, that's a longer-term thing though 0:12 <      warren> | Sopwith, so meanwhile... we don't have a solution, so I'll just forward branch requests to sysadmin? 0:12 <     Sopwith> | What really needs to be done is creating a sysadmin-vcs group in the account system, creating accounts from it, and changing CVS to use that account DB. 0:12 <    Sopwith> | warren: Yea. Can you ask mmcgrath to set up an OTRS queue for it, so we don't lose track of them? 0:12 <     warren> | Sopwith, is that a smaller subset than sysadmin-main? 0:13 <    Sopwith> | sysadmin-vcs might be bigger or smaller - as long as it's separate :) 0:13 <      warren> | Sopwith, ok 0:13 <         thl> | k, let's stop here and move on 0:13 <         thl> | warren, Sopwith, sorry for the trouble 0:13 <     Sopwith> | warren: I apologize again for the disruption - just don't have better ideas at the moment than this solution. 0:14 <      warren> | no problem 0:14 <      warren> | well, slight problem =) 0:14           --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- Encourage Extras reviews 0:14 <        thl> | did everybody see the FAB meeting summary 0:14             * | scop didn't 0:14 <       tibbs> | Something was supposed to be passed to FESCo, right? 0:14             * | abadger1999 trying to get into the FAB mailing list. 0:14             * | bpepple glanced at it. 0:15             * | thl can't find the url 0:15 <     warren> | thl, which? 0:15 <        thl> | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-06-20 0:15 <    bpepple> | Didn't mspevack send a summary to the mailing list? 0:15 <        thl> | "Fedora Extras Steering Committee discussed the sponsorship lag question. A summary, as provided by SethVidal, follows. " 0:16 <        thl> | everyone should read this 0:16 <        thl> | and we really need to find ways to improve the whole situation 0:16 <   mspevack> | thl: is it an accurate summary? /me goes back to lurking 0:16 <        thl> | I hope to find time to prepare a mail on it 0:16 <         thl> | and send it to the list for discussion 0:17 <        thl> | but that is probably sill one or two weeks away :-/ 0:17           <-- | Eitch has quit ("fui") 0:17 <        thl> | mspevack, yes, I think it's a mostly accurate summary 0:18 <        thl> | warren, tibbs, any news on "We need better documentation of the whole Extras review and sponsor process in the wiki" ? 0:18 <      tibbs> | Well, there's HowToGetSponsored, which we discussed last week. 0:18 <     warren> | I maintain that the only solution is more education and better documentation. I think Tibbs' mail on this topic is right on track. 0:19 <      nirik> | most of the requests waiting for sponsorship now are lagged due to lack of response/information from submitters IMHO... people expect to submit and get sponsored with no reviews/other info... 0:19 <    bpepple> | warren: +1 0:19 <      tibbs> | I want to work on some of the Packaging pages, but they're all protected now. 0:19 <      tibbs> | So I joined the Packaging Committee, but nothing's happened yet. 0:19 <     warren> | I'm realizing that given my assigned work priorities I need to move away from this. I think Tibbs has the right idea if he can own this it would be good. I wish to not obstruct progress on this anymore. 0:20 <      tibbs> | I will need assistance, but hopefully I can work within the Packaging Committee on at least some of it. 0:20 <        thl> | warren, okay 0:20 <        thl> | tibbs, we'll manage that somehow 0:20 <        thl> | but let's stop here for today and move on 0:20 <       tibbs> | I've been trying to ping some folks who have submitted reviews; I think a form letter might be nice. 0:20 <     warren> | tibbs, I will help, but I can't drive. 0:21           --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- Incompatible package upgrade policy 0:21 <        thl> | still on the schedule 0:21 <        thl> | nobody really is working on it 0:21 <         thl> | afics 0:21 <        thl> | afaics 0:21           --> | RTLM (RTLM)  has joined #fedora-extras 0:21 <      tibbs> | Incompatible upgrades keep happening. 0:21 <        thl> | directfb still was not updated? 0:21 <      tibbs> | Some of it is due to lack of testing. 0:22 <       scop> | it's still in my homedir on buildsys, waiting for resolution 0:22 <        thl> | tibbs, some also due to lack of knowledge of the problem by the maintainers 0:22 <        thl> | scop, "it" ? 0:22 <       scop> | thl, directfb 0:22 <      tibbs> | I'm probably unclear on just what this topic covers. 0:22 <        thl> | scop, ahh, okay 0:22 <        thl> | tibbs, yeah, maybe 0:23 <        thl> | we really need somebody to driver this forward 0:23 <        thl> | well 0:23 <        thl> | I'll put it on the plate for the new FESCo and ignore it for now 0:23 <       scop> | just to remind, spot said that he'd work something out of the discussions 0:23           --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- Weekly sponsorship nomination 0:23 <        thl> | scop, okay, that good 0:24 <        thl> | ehhh, I'm a fool 0:24           <-- | nacc_home has quit ("leaving") 0:24 <        thl> | there was a nomination last week 0:24 <     edhill> | yes, I nominated Orion 0:24 <        thl> | I forgot to forward it to the fesco-list 0:24 <        thl> | we'll get back to it next week 0:24 <     edhill> | ok 0:24 <         thl> | sorry for the delay 0:24 <        thl> | any otehr nominations? 0:24 <     edhill> | no worries 0:25 <      tibbs> | I was thinking of nominating Steve Pritchard. 0:25 <     warren> | I think he's OK. 0:25 <      tibbs> | He maintains a large number of packages and might be around here at the moment. 0:25 <        thl> | tibbs, k, I'll forward that nomination for discussion, too 0:25 <      tibbs> | Thanks. 0:26 <        thl> | any other nominations? 0:26             * | thl will move on in 20 0:26           --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- free discussion 0:27 <        thl> | any other things people like to have disucsed? 0:27 <      tibbs> | There was something I was supposed to bring up......  ummmm.... 0:27 <      tibbs> | Ah, FC3 branch for nagios-plugins. Did that happen already? 0:27             * | nirik was going to ask about allowing zaptel-kmod, but the submitter hasn't replied with info from upstream on why it's not getting merged with the mainstream kernel yet. 0:27 <        jpo> | nagios-plugins: perl-Net-SNMP also needs to have a FC-3 branch 0:28 <        thl> | warren, were those created? 0:28 <      tibbs> | Yes, that was it. 0:28 <      tibbs> | nagios-plugins: yes. 0:28             * | scop will be somewhat inactive for the next week, starting from today (vacation) 0:28 <      tibbs> | perl-Net-SNMP not yet. 0:28 <     warren> | FESCO should approve FC3 branches 0:29 <        thl> | tibbs, why do we need perl-Net-SNMP ? 0:29 <     warren> | but during the election I currently don't have access to branch 0:29 <     warren> | I can forward requests if they are approved 0:29 <      tibbs> | The infrastructure group requested it. 0:29 <        thl> | btw: scop, have a nice vacation 0:29 <        jpo> | one of the nagios plugins requires it 0:29 <         thl> | okay, so FC-3 branch for perl-Net-SNMP +1 0:29 <      tibbs> | Infrastructure machines run FC3 it seem. 0:29 <       scop> | thl, you too :) 0:30            --> | nacc_home (Nishanth Aravamudan)  has joined #fedora-extras 0:30 <         thl> | can I get some more +1 please? 0:30 <         thl> | (or 0 or -1) 0:30 <         jpo> | +1 0:30 <         jpo> | (I'm the maintainer) 0:30 <         thl> | warren, scop ? 0:31 <        scop> | +1, seems there is a need and I trust jpo to take good care of it 0:31 <         thl> | okay, that's enough 0:31 <         thl> | warren, can you please forward the request for creation of that branch ot sysadmin ? tia! 0:31 <      warren> | thl, yeah, along with the others. 0:32            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- zaptel-kmod 0:32 <       nirik> | thl: I haven't gotten any response back from the submitter yet... so I think we can postpone this... 0:32 <         thl> | nirik, I really like to hear an explanation why that module is not upstrea 0:32 <        thl> | m 0:32 <       nirik> | yeah, me too. ;) 0:33 <        thl> | k, then let's get back to it when we have one 0:33 <       nirik> | it builds and works fine here. I am using it on my main asterisk box. 0:33 <         thl> | nirik, and poke me when it's ready 0:33 <         thl> | then I'll take a look at the kmod specific parts 0:33 <         thl> | maybe I find time for it eralier 0:33 <       nirik> | will do. You and/or scop should make sure it's ok... s 0:33 <         thl> | (hopefully) 0:34            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- free discussion 0:34 <         thl> | k, anything else 0:34 <      _wart_> | I posted about a minimal buildroot problem on FC4 to f-e-l.  Any ideas what we can do about it? (missing elfutils -> binaries don't get stripped) 0:34 <        scop> | that needs to be added to the build roots 0:34 <         thl> | yeah, looks like it 0:34 <        scop> | IIRC there was some kind of problem with python as well 0:34 <     _wart_> | It's not a problem on FC5/FC6 because rpm-build Requires: elfutils 0:35 <      tibbs> | Push an update for rpm-build? 0:35 <       scop> | pretty unlikely, I think 0:35 <        thl> | yeah, unlikely 0:35 <      tibbs> | Is FE3 similarly busted? 0:36 <     _wart_> | tibbs; Dont' know, I don't build for FE3 anymore. 0:36 <      tibbs> | It will be important for security builds. 0:36 <        thl> | hmmm 0:37 <     _wart_> | Are we pushing the new minimal build root to FE3? 0:37 <        thl> | so how to proceed? 0:37 <     _wart_> | I thought it was just FC4+ 0:37 <        thl> | do we want to decide adding pyhton and elfutils to the buildroots of FC4 ? 0:38 <        thl> | or are there other things taht needs to be discussed first? 0:38 <       scop> | anyone remember what pulls in python in FC5+? 0:38 <        thl> | s/things/+ related to this/ 0:38             * | warren checks 0:39 <     warren> | hmm.. 0:39 <       scop> | maybe some selinux related packages? 0:39 <     warren> | rpm-python used to pull it in 0:40 <      warren> | but rpm-python doesn't appear to be in the list 0:40 <        thl> | okay, let's handle it like this: 0:40 <        thl> | discuss it further on the list 0:40 <     warren> | yeah 0:41 <        thl> | and if it looks like it should be neccessary that elfutils or python need to be added 0:41 <       ensc> | scop: util-linux -> policycoreutils 0:41 <        thl> | we simply do it without further discussion 0:41 <        thl> | that okay for everybody? 0:41 <     warren> | ok 0:41 <      _wart_> | thl: +1 0:41 <       scop> | I probably won't be able to participate in that discussion, but my +1 to both if they're pulled in in FC5+ too 0:41 <       scop> | ensc, ok, thanks 0:42 <       ensc> | scop: I hope, that gets fixed soon... 0:42 <        thl> | okay 0:42 <   dgilmore> | i think we need to include legacy updates in the fc3 buildroot 0:42 <        thl> | dgilmore, what's the status of FE3 anyway? 0:43 <   dgilmore> | thl: i have a couple of package i need to fix 0:43 <        thl> | does the security team track FE3 these days? 0:43           <-- | c4chris_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 0:43 <   dgilmore> | thl: so far the security issues havent effected FC3 0:43 <        thl> | otherwise the plan was to officially EOL it 0:43 <         thl> | dgilmore, well, let's discuss this another time 0:43 <   dgilmore> | thl: ok 0:43 <         thl> | dgilmore, I'll send you a mail and/or ping you 0:44 <   dgilmore> | thl: fine 0:44 <        thl> | k, anything else that needs to be discussed? 0:44             * | thl will close the meeting in 60 0:44 <      tibbs> | Would anyone mind if I started asking FE-NEEDSPONSOR folks about their other reviews and contributions? 0:45 <      tibbs> | They deserve to at least hear something. 0:45 <      nirik> | tibbs: sounds like a good idea to me. 0:45 <        thl> | tibbs, yeah, that sounds like a good idea 0:46             * | thl will close the meeting in 30 0:46 <      tibbs> | I'll start working through the ones who haven't submitted anything other than a single package review. 0:46           --> | c4chris_ (Christian Iseli)  has joined #fedora-extras 0:46             * | thl will close the meeting in 10 0:47 <        thl> | -- MARK meeting end -- 0:47 <        thl> | thanks everyone