QA/Meetings/20090824

= Attendees =


 * Adam Williamson (adamw)
 * David Pravec (dpravec)
 * Edward Kirk (tk009)
 * James Laska (jlaska)
 * Kamil Paral (kparal)
 * Will Woods (wwoods)
 * Jesse Keating (f13)
 * Kevin Fenzi (nirik)
 * (nanonyme)
 * Luke Macken (lmacken)
 * Sebastian Dziallas (sdziallas)
 * Lucas Rodrigues (lmr)

Regrets:
 * Liam Li (lili)
 * He Rui (rhe)

= Agenda =


 * Proposed meeting agenda
 * meetbot summary

Previous meeting follow-up

 * [jlaska] - sync up w/ viking_ice to discuss coordination for upcoming dracut test day

No updates, wasn't able to sync up with Viking_Ice. However, I have been building on his initial test day wiki draft and in communication with Harald Hoyer on wiki test areas he'd like to see covered.

Mini post F-12-Alpha recap
Jlaska asked the group for feedback on what worked well, and what areas needed improvement for the recent F-12-Alpha release.

What worked well

 * f13 suggested ... there was a ton more communication between releng and QA. Jlaska agreed and requested continued use of tracking collaborative efforts through the rel-eng trac tickets.  Jlaska also noted that Liam was having some problems receiving email updates, but would follow-up with fedora-infrastructure if issues remained.
 * Jlaska suggested ... another thing I felt worked well was the alpha blocker bug meetings. F13 agreed and also noted that the more detailed schedule helped.  Adamw wondered if the Friday blocker day was the best day to schedule.  However, f13 noted it gave time for folks in EMEA and APAC timezones to get a head start.

What needs improvement

 * Adamw reminded the team ... i think the main area for improvement that presented itself is not in our processes but just the anaconda-sync-with-releases thing. The consensus was this was an area for improvement, but folks weren't clear how to proceed and what venue to discuss in.
 * Jlaska suggested that the current install test plan could stand to be made more agile ... so it is a more attainable goal.
 * Jlaska noted that ... current planned testing is only focused on installation and asked if there were improvements to be made to increase test coverage for other areas of the distro?

Adamw noted, that thinking only in an alpha context, the other major areas ... of concern ... are networking and the yum/rpm stack, and xorg. Those are areas where most people are vocal about should problems surface. xorg is tricky like anaconda as it's quite hardware dependent, but it might be nice to have a basic setup for testing at least if intel, nouveau and radeon aren't entirely broken.

F13 reminded the group that there is a focus on installation test as that is the biggest barrier to getting more test feedback from Alpha/Beta testers. Adamw agreed, but noted that if we have the hardware (i can cover nvidia and possibly radeon at a push) we could have a little xorg table in there.

Wwoods noted that ensuring basic functionality of intel/nouveau/radeon is supposed to be part of the QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:X_basic_display_test_case). Some discussion followed as to where would be best to record results for basic display testing, the consensus was in the short-term having a test matrix to get some feedback on intel/nouveau/radeon feedback would be good.

Recent changes
Wwoods updated the group on recent AutoQA activities, including:
 * updated conflicts test - it was doing Obsoletes and Conflicts wrong, and taking 5 hours to run
 * Improved email headers for autoqa-results ... includes test, arch and a summary of errors (e.g. repoclosure: 34 packages with unresolved deps in rawhide-x86_64)
 * The rats_* tests were broken over the weekend, but were fixed
 * wwoods> anyway, I rewrote the option-parsing code in the autoqa harness to be more sane (i.e. not hardcoding hook-specific code in the main harness)

Jlaska planned to add a SDV system that supports KVM into Wwoods autotest server.

F13 updated the group that a new autotest was released upstream (0.11) that includes support for the latest Django in Fedora. Wwoods asked jlaska for an extra virt guest to test the updated autotest package. F13 will provide an updated autotest server. Woods, dpravec and jlaska would provide test using the newer build.

Adamw asked, aren't we now at the point where we could actually create the much-vaunted israwhidebroken.com?  Wwoods suggested he was close, but would need a way to push/pull data from autotest to send to another system. After, having an (authenticated) way for qa team people to fill in the boxes for unautomated bits (e.g. Xorg).

What's next ...
Wwoods gave an update on his plan for the upcoming week:
 * look into that (pulling/pushing data from autotest for e.g. israwhidebroken.com)
 * writing docs so petr / dpravec / et. al. can get their hands dirty designing new tests/hooks, like Fedora TPS and such

fedora-test-announce request?
David recommended fedora-test-announce mailing list for all QA related events. David suggested .. i heard people telling me that they would love to participate some test days, but they do not read many mail lists. Some people only read fedora-announce, some miss the the mails on the fedora-test-list traffic.

Adamw sends reminders to fedora planet (blog), fedora forums. All agreed that fedora-announce was not the right forum for test days.

The general consensus was that a new mailing list wouldn't hurt. F13 suggested having the new list bcc all mails to the existing fedora-test-list for folks who don't sign up to the list.

Dpravec would file a ticket in https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/report and follow-up.

2009-08-18 - Printing
Jlaska hasn't heard from mclasen on how the printing test day went and asked the team if anyone had feedback on the success/fail of the Printing test day? Adamw but i was around for some of the day, seemed to be going well. Mostly participation was from the fnf guys and the printing guys - but a few other testers did drop by.

2009-08-20 - ABRT
ABRT test day was a success. Thanks to Dpravec and Kparal. See test summary From David Pravec.

Dpravec noted adamw's script for gathering feedback was helpful for generating the ABRT test report.

2009-08-27 - Dracut
Jlaska spoke w/ Harald quite a bit last week and created a few test cases on the wiki (see Test_Day:2009-08-27. Additional tests needed for remaining root= boot scenarios.

The current state:
 * the 3 core test cases are already defined
 * These tests need to be performed in different root= environments (root=UUID, root=LABEL, root=luks-UUID, root=/dev/md0, etc...)

Planning to wrap up wiki today. Any suggestions for improvement, feel free to ping jlaska.

nightly live builds (adamw)
Adamw reminded the group about the great work from nirik on providing daily rawhide live images. Adamw also updated the existing Releases/Rawhide wiki to direct users to live images. Team consensus ... nirik rocks!

Adamw recommended folks advertise this change as much as possible (blogs, mailing lists, irc discussion, tweets, etc...)

F13 expressed concerns on the value of advertising daily rawhide live image downloads. The main concern was that by providing daily live images, we might be encouraging frequent/daily downloads of rawhide live images ... even when not required. The end result, the increased bandwith load would limit the ability of testers to provide test results against live images and RC milestones also hosted on the same server. A long debate followed debating the value of providing live images and how much real testing they receive.

Jlaska took an action item to raise this topic again with the fedora-infrastructure team. If there are problems or we need to limit access to the bits, or throttle downloads ... the infrastructure team would be best to advise.

bugzilla and test days (dpravec)
Dpravec suggested getting rid of the wiki tables for test results and using bugzilla directly to track test results against test cases. Perhaps using bugzilla keywords to track Test Day and Test Case information.

Adamw noted that not all test days were a list of bugs, some events track results against specific test cases (e.g. Test_Day:2009-03-26_Nouveau).

Some discussion followed about the best mechanism. Jokes followed about a pony (see http://i-want-a-pony.com).

No conclusions were reached. There was a general sense that a test case mgmt system would be helpful. Jlaska suggested that any small improvements to the current wiki tracking mechanisms should definitely be considered. A formal test case mgmt system is ideal but definitely requires a lot of time+resources.

No updates for rawhide x86_64 (kparal)?
Kparal asked why no package updates have been sent for Rawhide/x86_64 in the last few days. Dpravec noted that there were package updates available. Kparal condluced perhaps a mirror problem existed.

= Upcoming QA events =


 * 2009-08-27 - Dracut test day
 * 2009-08-31 - QA/Meetings/20090831 at 16:00 UTC

= Action items =


 * [dpravec] - investigate creating fedora-test-announce mailing list for Test Days, other test events, schedule updates
 * [jlaska] - talk with Liam about how we can make the current install test plan more attainable/achievable in the given time frames
 * [jlaska] - cleanup remaining test cases for dracut and send announcement
 * [jlaska] - discuss bandwith implications of hosting nightly rawhide live images with fedora-infrastructure
 * [Oxf13] - will do a build of the new autotest version for testing.
 * [jlaska + wwoods] to test latest autotest build
 * UNASSIGNED
 * include a xorg-x11-drv matrix in F-12-Beta test matrix for nouveau, intel and radeon

= IRC transcript =

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