Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20060126

Fedora Extras Steering Committee Meeting
26 January 2006

Attending from FESCo

 * ThorstenLeemhuis (thl)
 * JeremyKatz (jeremy)
 * EnricoScholz (ensc)
 * ThomasVanderStichele (thomasvs)
 * VilleSkyttä (scop)
 * GregDeKoenigsberg (gregdek)
 * JosePedroOliviera (jpo)

Actions

 * Kernel module standardization

Ongoing. We'll use the latest version Ville posted to extras list some days ago. He'll import it to cvs soon.

Next on the todo-list: Make the buildsystem handle kmods


 * Mass Rebuild of FE5

We can't start yet, need to wait for another build in core

Core doesn't really worry about dep order when building

Looks like we'll ignore the dep-order for rebuilding FE5, too and will let the packagers request rebuilds -- no script


 * EOL Policy for FE

We're waiting for Warren. Some details now at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/EolPolicy


 * Weekly sponsorship nomination

New sponsors: Kevin Fenzi (nirik) and (now for real) Josh Boyer (jwb)


 * FE-NEEDSPONSOR

We have a bug now (#177841) -- do we need more?


 * Encourage more Extras reviews

Create special interest groups?

Input needed!


 * Mono in FE

Nobody was there that said "Disallow it" -> Mono packages allowed from now on in FE5. If certain people don't feel comfortable submitting or reviewing said packages, that is up to them.

Mono in FE4 -- revisit after release of FC5

Complete Log
18:57           --> | scop (Ville Skytta)  has joined #fedora-extras 19:00 <        thl> | hi 19:00 <         thl> | everyone ready for FESCo meeting? 19:00             * | jeremy is partly here 19:00 <        thl> | any FESCo members around? a quick "yes" or something like that would be helpful 19:00             * | scop is ready in a few minutes, don't wait 19:01           --> | jpo (Unknown)  has joined #fedora-extras 19:01           --- | Users 43 nicks 19:01 <        thl> | ensc, warren, skvidal (still at LCA ?) 19:02 <        thl> | Well, lets start 19:02 <        thl> | does anyone want to take notes? 19:02             * | gregdek hullos. 19:02 <     jeremy> | warren is in japan, so probably won't make it 19:02 <         thl> | still there? okay 19:03 <        thl> | let's start 19:03 <        thl> | ||Kernel module standardization||ThorstenLeemhuis|| 19:03 <        thl> | ohh, let's wait with that one until scop is ready 19:03 <        thl> | Mass rebuild of Extras for FC5 || jeremy 19:04 <        thl> | dcbw mentioned that plague 0.5 might make that easier? jeremy do you know anything about that? 19:04             * | scop is here 19:05 <    jeremy> | thl: I don't think that plague 0.5 really makes much of a difference 19:05 <     jeremy> | I do know that we can't start it yet as there are some gcc/glibc things which are still coming (hopefully monday or tuesday) that are going to require a core rebuild 19:05 <        thl> | jeremy, any news from jackub? 19:05 <        thl> | jeremy, okay 19:06 <        thl> | jeremy, what would you suggest how to do it? with a script? 19:06 <        thl> | jeremy, how does core handle those things? are rebuilds done in dep-order? 19:06 <     jeremy> | we don't really worry about dep order when doing it for core 19:06 <       scop> | what happens with the packages resulting from the mass rebuild? scratch repo or something else? 19:06 <     jeremy> | basically "throw stuff, try stuff that fails until everything builds" 19:07 <     jeremy> | it works okay enough 19:07 <     jeremy> | and ender should be able to help grab the script he's been using for core 19:07 <     jeremy> | scop: they go straight into rawhide for core 19:07           <-- | ensc has quit (Nick collision from services.) 19:07           --> | ensc (Enrico Scholz)  has joined #fedora-extras 19:08 <        thl> | that enough information for me and for now on that topic 19:08 <       ensc> | hi, sorry... network outage :( 19:08 <       scop> | jeremy, I think I'd be more comfortable with a throwaway repo 19:09 <         thl> | scop, why? 19:09 <        scop> | packagers commit work-in-progress stuff to CVS 19:09 <        scop> | things that aren't really meant to be built yet 19:09 <        scop> | (well, at least I do, occasionally) 19:10 <      jeremy> | scop: personally, I'd prefer to get packagers to do as much of the rebuilding as possible 19:10 <      jeremy> | also, it should be easy enough to do a "check if version in cvs is the same as what's built, if not, don't do automated bump+build" 19:11 <        scop> | but auto-bump+rebuilds are directly against "packagers do it as much as possible", no? 19:11 <      jeremy> | scop: that's an either/or, not an and :-) 19:12 <        thl> | me votes for "packagers do it as much as possible" and "ignore dep-order" 19:12           --> | thomasvs (Thomas Vander Stichele)  has joined #fedora-extras 19:12 <    jeremy> | thl: agreed 19:12 <       scop> | +1 19:13           --> | edhill_ (Ed Hill)  has joined #fedora-extras 19:13           <-- | edhill has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:13 <     jeremy> | although I think we should expect that we'll have to go through and do some stuff for packagers who are busy or otherwise before the release of fc5 19:13 <        thl> | jeremy, sure 19:13 <        thl> | okay, let's go back to kernel-modules 19:14 <        thl> | scop, I ported the nxxxxx-drivers over to the new proposal 19:14 <        thl> | worked quite well afaics 19:14 <       scop> | ok, good to hear 19:14 <        thl> | scop, anything left to discuss? 19:14 <       scop> | I think it's looking ok from the packaging side 19:15 <        thl> | agreed 19:15 <       scop> | buildsys hacking is up next 19:15 <        thl> | jeremy, did you take a look at the last scheme? 19:15 <        thl> | do we need to run a package trough behivee? 19:15 <       scop> | um? 19:15 <    jeremy> | thl: I haven't looked in the past couple of weeks due to travel and meetings :/ 19:16 <        thl> | just to test that everything works fine there in case CFeist wants to use it 19:16 <        scop> | ah, ok 19:16 <     jeremy> | thl: but I'm willing to say it's good and if we have to tweak later, we'll tweak. I'm sure something else will need tweaking before long anyway :-) 19:16           --> | ignacio|School (gaim)  has joined #fedora-extras 19:17 <         thl> | jeremy, you know that we used a quite different approach now? 19:17 <         thl> | with a bash script instead of a macro 19:17 <     jeremy> | thl: yeah, I saw that 19:17 <         thl> | k 19:18 <         thl> | scop, then let's talk with dcbw about the buildsys 19:18 <         thl> | can you do that? 19:18 <        scop> | wait, first, no objections to /me committing the thinkpad and lirc kmod packages to CVS tonight? 19:18 <         thl> | okay for me 19:19 <        scop> | allright 19:20 <        scop> | I have some vague ideas about the buildsys part, will try to find time Really Soon Now 19:20 <         f13> | jeremy: the script I was using for core needs a lot of love. 19:20 <         f13> | jeremy: it does some not cool things to the nvre 19:20 <        thl> | f13, we agreed to let the packagers do the work 19:20 <        f13> | oh ok. 19:20 <        thl> | okay, moving on 19:20 <         thl> | skipping FE-NEEDSPONSOR tracker bug||Warren|| 19:21 <        thl> | skipping other things as well 19:21 <        thl> | EOL Policy for FE||???|| 19:21 <        f13> | ah 19:21 <         f13> | I submitted a proposal for this a while ago. 19:21 <        thl> | Well, how about "no new branches for FC3 in FE from now on" 19:22             * | thl scratches his head 19:22 <        thl> | f13, when/where? 19:22 <        f13> | the crux of it was:  No new packages for releases in maint mode (IE they're in Legacy), but maintainer's disgression if they want to release updates for existing packages. 19:22 <       f13> | thl: many weeks ago to fesco list. 19:23 <       f13> | thl: Dec 2 2005 to be exact. 19:23 <        f13> | of course, warren didn't like it, and I've integrated some of his suggestions. 19:25 <        thl> | f13, could you add it to http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/EolPolicy ? 19:25 <        thl> | then we can talk about the details next week 19:25 <        f13> | Sure. 19:25 <        thl> | but maybe we should at least agree on the 19:25 <        f13> | basically warren wanted to be able to upgrade versions of things like clamav 19:25 <        thl> | "no new branches for FC3 in FE from now on" part 19:26 <        f13> | and he didn't want to lock anything down because FE3 was useful to RHEL, which personally I think isn't really our concern. 19:26 <       f13> | thl: can you define 'branches' for me? 19:26 <       scop> | s/branches/packages/ 19:26 <       scop> | kinda 19:27 <        f13> | ok. 19:27 <        f13> | warren will probably not agree to that. 19:27 <        thl> | f13, people still request directory for FC3 on http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/CVSSyncNeeded 19:27 <        f13> | 19:27 <        f13> | Anyway, for this reason I don't want to totally disallow new packages in 19:27 <         f13> | FE3 yet. It would really inconvenience me, and probably other Extras 19:27 <        f13> | contributors who use and rely on it. 19:27 <        f13> | 19:28 <        thl> | okay, then let's wait another week with that stuff 19:28 <        f13> | oh I guess ou need the reason. 19:28 <        f13> | the reason was FE useful ness for RHEL 19:28 <       f13> | thl: ok. I'll add my email to the wiki page. 19:29 <        thl> | f13, thx 19:29 <        thl> | okay, next point:  Weekly sponsorship nomination 19:29 <       scop> | I think this is closely related to "encourage extras reviews" 19:30 <        thl> | nirik was suggested last week 19:30 <        thl> | "Kevin Fenzi" in real life 19:31 <      nirik> | yeah, edhill nominated me. 19:31 <      nirik> | I would be happy to help out sponsoring or just reviewing... ;) 19:32 <       scop> | +1, although I don't have too clear a picture of your work, but just a general positive feeling 19:32 <         thl> | well, a +1 for nirik 19:33 <         f13> | http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/EolPolicy  has been updated. 19:33 <       nirik> | I have also been trying to do a mass rebuild lately and file bugs against things that don't build in mock 19:33 <         thl> | any -1 ? 19:33              * | thl waits some seconds 19:33 <     gregdek> | +1 19:34 <         thl> | okay, nirik upgraded to a sponsor;-) 19:35 <      nirik> | thanks. Will try and use the power for good... :) 19:35 <      nirik> | are there many sponsor waiting bugs? 19:35              * | nirik goes to check bugzilla. 19:35 <       nirik> | I looked a while ago and there were not many... 19:35 <         thl> | not on the schedule, but scop mentioned it already 19:35 <         thl> | "encourage extras reviews" 19:36 <        scop> | also, that's the FE-NEEDSPONSOR item which was postponed 19:36 <         thl> | FE-NEEDSPONSOR exists somewhere already 19:36 <       nirik> | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=177841 19:37 <         thl> | yeah 19:37 <         thl> | it was on warrens todo list 19:37 <        scop> | ah! 19:37 <         thl> | but Roozbeh simply did it 19:37 <       nirik> | yeah, not sure all the ones needed are there, but I think it's a good cut at it. 19:37 <        scop> | I wonder how many other sponsors besides me have completely missed that...? 19:38 <       scop> | (#177841, that is) 19:38 <      nirik> | there was a post about it to the extras list... 19:38 <      nirik> | but not much comment on it, so it could easily have been missed. 19:38 <       scop> | okay, hopefully not many others did 19:39 <        thl> | I liked the idea mschwendt brought up on fesco list 19:39 <        thl> | create special interest groups for python and perl 19:39 <       scop> | that was discussed ages ago during fedora.us times, basically everyone liked it but nobody implemented :( 19:39 <         f13> | that is a good idea. 19:40 <         thl> | mschwendt said to do it in the wiki 19:40 <         f13> | grouping has other benifits too, like paving the way to logical groupings within Anaconda in FC6 when Extras is available at install time. 19:40 <         thl> | why don't we simply create more tracker bugs 19:40 <         thl> | sorting them shouldn't be to hard 19:40 <         thl> | them=new review requests 19:41 <       nirik> | could have a MONO one too. ;) 19:41 <        thl> | Mono is next on my todo list 19:41 <        thl> | ;-) 19:42              * | f13 looks at the floor 19:42 <        scop> | is it the responsibility of the submitter to place it into the appropriate trackers? 19:42 <        scop> | (it=the new submission) 19:42 <         thl> | good question 19:43 <         thl> | it's only a tool that should help sorting things 19:43 <         thl> | do we really need a enforce policy for this? 19:44 <        scop> | no... but someone needs to fill in the trackers, otherwise they're not much use 19:44 <         thl> | jpo, could you have a look after perl packages? 19:44 <         thl> | do we have anyone that has a special interest in python? 19:45 <        jpo> | thl: ok 19:45 < ignacio|Sch> | I do, but I'm very busy atm. 19:45 <         thl> | let's discuss the details on the list until next week 19:45 <        scop> | I'm not sure if "python" is that good as a category 19:45 <         jwb> | back to the sponsor thing for a second.. 19:45 <        thl> | okay for everybody? 19:46 <       scop> | okay 19:46 <        thl> | jwb, shoot now 19:46 <        jwb> | whomever goes in to the tool to give nirik sponsor auth, could you do mine at the same time? i got nominated a few weeks ago but haven't been given permissions yet 19:47 <        jwb> | at least not according to https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts/dump-group.cgi?group=cvsextras&role_type=sponsor&format=html 19:47 <        thl> | who has admin rights there? 19:47 <        thl> | jwb, I'll check that later 19:48 <       jwb> | thl, no problem 19:48 <        thl> | and take care of it 19:48 <         thl> | okay 19:48 <        jwb> | thx 19:48 <        thl> | Mono 19:48 <        f13> | *cough* 19:48 <    gregdek> | *cough* 19:48 <        jwb> | *puke* 19:48 <        thl> | I don't like the situation, but we have to deal with it 19:49 <         thl> | I think allowing things in core and forbid them in extras is ridiculous 19:49 <        thl> | other opinions? 19:50 <    jeremy> | thl: I think it is reasonable to allow mono apps in extras now (as I've previously said) 19:50 <     jeremy> | if certain people don't feel comfortable submitting or reviewing said packages, that is up to them 19:50 <        thl> | jeremy, agreed 19:50 <        f13> | +1 from me too 19:51 <    gregdek> | +1 19:51 <        thl> | anyone that disagrees on this? 19:51             * | gregdek looks for ralf... 19:51 <        jwb> | heh 19:51 <        thl> | yeah, I'm waiting for ralf, too 19:52           --> | mdomsch (Matt Domsch)  has joined #fedora-extras 19:53 <        thl> | okay, then mono packages are allowed in FE5 from now on 19:53 <         thl> | we still wait with FC4 until FC5 is released 19:53 <    gregdek> | So mote it be! 19:53 <        jwb> | did i miss the mass rebuild topic? 19:53             * | jwb was late 19:54 <        thl> | jwb, yes, you did 19:54 <       f13> | thl: sounds good to me. 19:54 <        thl> | anything else that need to be discussed today? 19:54 <        thl> | we're running late... 19:54 <        jwb> | erm.. minutes? 19:55 <        jwb> | ah, nevermind 19:55 <        thl> | jwb, usual place in half an hour 19:55 <        thl> | guys, just fyi: ensc created http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/RpathCheckBuildsys 19:55           <-- | mspevack  has left #fedora-extras ( "Leaving") 19:55 <        thl> | We IMHO should use the checks in FE devel after FC5 was released 19:56 <        thl> | but we'll better discuss it another time 19:56 <       scop> | btw, rpath check test suite fails in current rawhide 19:56 <       ensc> | scop: sorry, I had no time yet to look into it 19:56 <        scop> | ensc, no problem, just a fyi for others 19:56 <       scop> | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=178636 19:57 <        jpo> | for example: lftp 19:57 <        thl> | jeremy, "FC5 naming" is still on the FESCo todo-list 19:57 <        thl> | I hope you guys take care of it in time for FC5 ;-) 19:58 <         thl> | anything else? 19:58              * | thl will close in 60 19:58 <        scop> | none here 19:58              * | f13 wonders why naming FC is a FE task... 19:59              * | thl will close in 30 19:59 <         jwb> | f13, we wondered the same thing at the last meeting :) 19:59             * | thl will close in 10 19:59 <        thl> | MARK meeting end