BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2009-Jun-02

Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-06-02

Agenda: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00076.html

Attendees

• adamw
• arxs
• iarlyy
• thomasj
• poelcat
• SMParrish

Meeting Recap

• Triage Metrics - http://publictest14.fedoraproject.org/triageweb/

The metrics are now in beta. Bug reports and RFE's should be posted here http://fedorahosted.org/triage

Code http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/triage.git

proposal for FAS changes - New bugzappers to apply to 'triagers', and for that to be automatically linked to 'fedorabugs', making 'triagers' group an accurate record of our actual bugzappers membership. This has been forwarded to the FAS admins.

• Severity/priority - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Beland/

Awaiting changes to bugzilla before going officially into effect. See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495985

BugZappers can begin to set the severity field on bugs reported to rawhide.

• Open Floor

arxs discussed the addition of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=459323 to the common bugs page. It was agreed it should be added which arxs will do.

SMParrish brought up a very good suggestion for fellow triagers. Full information here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00149.html

IRC Transcript

adamw	bugzappers meeting time - show of limbs	08:01
* poelcat here		08:01
* arxs hands up		08:01
* thomasj here		08:02
adamw	anyone else?	08:02
adamw	let's give iarlyy a minute...	08:03
adamw	ach,well, that's long enough!	08:04
adamw	alright, topic #1: triage metrics	08:04
adamw	comphappy has a final today so i shall do my finest comphappy impression once again	08:04
* SMParrish here		08:04
adamw	heya	08:05
adamw	alright, so, the main news: the metrics system is basically all up and running	08:05
adamw	it's now running on live data, not test snapshots	08:05
adamw	so this is now the 'beta' period: comphappy wants people to be using it, and filing reports on any problems they find	08:06
adamw	bugs to be filed at fedorahosted.org/triage	08:06
adamw	so, big vote of thanks to comphappy for being awesome and making that for us. alright. anyone else on this topic?	08:07
poelcat	adamw: file bugs :)	08:07
* poelcat goes to find url		08:07
arxs	http://publictest14.fedoraproject.org/triageweb/	08:07
poelcat	http://fedorahosted.org/triage	08:08
adamw	thanks	08:08
poelcat	click on "new ticket" and component = triageweb	08:08
adamw	right	08:09
adamw	so please do be playing with the system, and file reports for any problems or ideas you have	08:09
poelcat	what is our target "go live" date?	08:09
* poelcat wasn't sure if it changed or not		08:10
adamw	well, it's a bit of a dubious distinction now because we may as well start using it to generate useful data now - it was always intended more for us to track our own numbers than to be something for 'the public' - but I think comphappy said the beta period would end as far as he and infrastructure are concerned early next month	08:10
poelcat	okay, i wasn't clear if we were collecting "real data" or just enough to test it	08:11
adamw	nope, it's live on the real bz data now updated every night, so we may as well use it	08:11
adamw	welcome iarlyy :)	08:12
iarlyy	mibbit again, crashing... :@	08:12
adamw	alright...i think we covered the metrics	08:12
adamw	oh, except for one tangential topic: comphappy has a plan to deal with the FAS groups	08:13
adamw	as we've discussed before, there's a 'triagers' groups and a 'fedorabugs' group within FAS	08:13
adamw	currently, bugzappers apply to 'fedorabugs' and there's no real set process to get into the 'triagers' group, which isn't used for much	08:13
adamw	however, 'fedorabugs' contains much more than just bugzappers group members: anyone who needs elevated bz privileges for some reason gets into it	08:14
adamw	so the proposal is for new bugzappers to apply to 'triagers', and for that to be automatically linked to 'fedorabugs'	08:14
adamw	then the 'triagers' group would be a good accurate record of our actual bugzappers membership	08:14
adamw	so...that's the plan :) it seems sound to me, i couldn't fault it. currently it's waiting on the fas admins.	08:14
adamw	the link to the metric script, btw, is that the metric script uses the 'triagers' group to decide who's a bugzapper.	08:15
poelcat	adamw: sounds good... i thought comphappy had 'triagers' originally set up for this purpose	08:15
adamw	i'm not sure what the history is there, but that sounds like the sane way to do it to me anyway	08:15
poelcat	agree :)	08:16
iarlyy	adamw: its a great idea.. fully agree	08:16
adamw	alright, comphappy says he'll be here for next week's meeting so he can give us an update on that then	08:16
adamw	alright, next topic: priority/severity again (ugh). this is waiting on the bugzilla admins to restrict access to the priority/severity fields	08:17
adamw	i didn't want to go ahead and put the policy into place until that's done, but it's annoying	08:17
adamw	it's being handled on a bug report: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495985	08:17
buggbot	Bug 495985: medium, medium, ---, itamar, NEW, [RFE ] Hide Severity/Priority field from everyone except the maintainer/developer	08:17
adamw	so I'm just twiddling my thumbs waiting on that at present :\	08:17
arxs	well, i started to set the severity only on rawhide bugs, and sometime i need to adjust down the severity who are set by the user. And no severity war was happend :)	08:18
adamw	arxs: hah! vindication!	08:19
adamw	that's great, thanks for doing that	08:19
adamw	i think everyone could certainly start doing that if they like, and we'll deal with any unholy revision wars if any actually happen	08:20
adamw	anyone else started using severity yet?	08:20
adamw	well, er, feel free to. :)	08:21
iarlyy	unfortunately, I have to leave, personal problems, after meeting a read the log. sorry. Back later	08:21
iarlyy	***I read	08:21
adamw	alright, cya iarlyy, hope it's nothing bad	08:21
adamw	anyone have anything to add on severity?	08:22
poelcat	adamw: way to make it happen!	08:22
adamw	alright, then - on to open floor	08:23
arxs	yes, nouveau and hibernate/standby offent not working, is this a information who should add to the common bugs wiki page?	08:23
adamw	arxs: it's not specific enough; we need a definite indication of exactly what the scenario is, ideally	08:24
adamw	what bug #(s) are you thinking of?	08:24
arxs	yust give me a second :)	08:25
adamw	alright :)	08:25
* adamw whistles		08:26
poelcat	one thing from me...	08:26
adamw	yep?	08:27
poelcat	i'd like to see if some other folks would be willing to run the meetings going forward	08:27
arxs	for example bug 459323 (i know, the bug is old and reported against f10)	08:27
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=459323 high, medium, ---, bskeggs, ASSIGNED, nvidia video card: X does not resume after suspend	08:27
* poelcat will wait until we're done disucssing the bug		08:27
adamw	arxs: hmm, i see, so on quite a lot of hardware...	08:28
adamw	that probably is worth documenting. it'd be nice to have more details and/or a workaround though :|	08:28
adamw	arxs: please do add an entry to the common bugs page for it yeah, thanks for bringing it up...i hadn't seen that report	08:29
arxs	i have the same problem with my Nvidia cards, the nv dirver works, but the nouveau not	08:29
arxs	adamw: ok, should i also changed the bug to report against rawhide?	08:29
adamw	that's a tricky one, i always hate this situation - bugzilla just doesn't handle it right :\	08:30
adamw	probably, it'd likely get more attention that way. note in a comment that it does affect 10 as well, still, though.	08:30
adamw	i'll try and find Ben and talk to him about the problem too, see if he can explain anything.	08:30
arxs	and also f9, since the bug was change in past from f9 to f10	08:30
adamw	yeah, though i doubt any fixes could be easily backported that far. but yep, worth noting	08:31
adamw	thanks a lot - let me know if you have any questions about adding stuff to the page	08:31
arxs	ok, thanks for your hints	08:32
arxs	thats all from me, back to poelcat ?	08:32
adamw	yeah	08:32
poelcat	i need to focus my time on some other projects	08:32
adamw	poelcat: tk009 has been helping out with running them lately, which is great	08:32
poelcat	tk009 has done a fantastic job helping to lighten the load by creating the agenda and doing the recap	08:32
poelcat	but I still need a break :)	08:32
poelcat	i still want to be involved with triage, but more in a background role and probably not be at all the meetings	08:33
poelcat	i'll still handle the "housekeeping" tasks for F11 and F12 and beyond that we'll see	08:33
adamw	well thanks for all you've done	08:33
poelcat	you're welcome :)	08:33
adamw	so, for now we have me and tk009 in the meeting management committee =) anyone else like to join?	08:34
i-amin	hmmm	08:34
arxs	maybe me, i have some spare time, but i'm not a native english speaker at all	08:34
adamw	that's OK	08:35
adamw	well, we'll just take it as it goes from now on, i think we should have people enough to cover things	08:35
SMParrish	I know we have some housekeeping coming up to rebase rawhide to F11 and F9 open to F10 correct	08:35
adamw	SMParrish: yep, poelcat is in charge of that	08:35
i-amin	sorry for interupting	08:36
adamw	np	08:36
i-amin	may i know what this room is all about??	08:36
SMParrish	Ok. one thing I am going to do is go through all open F9 KDE issues and if I find it is an issue still in Rawhide I'm going to manually rebase them to F11, that way they stay at the top of our list. Might want to suggest other triagers do the same	08:37
thomasj	i-amin, /topic ;)	08:37
adamw	SMParrish: that's a good idea - everyone take note :)	08:37
i-amin	owh	08:37
i-amin	okk	08:37
adamw	SMParrish: you could send a mail to the list suggesting it also	08:37
SMParrish	I'll do that.	08:38
arxs	i have many open bugs with NM for F9 who are all waiting for NEEDINFO for more then 60 days, should i closed it manuell or leave it and let the EOL tasks do the work?	08:39
adamw	poelcat?	08:39
SMParrish	arxs: I always close this as INSUFFICIENT_DATA and tell the reporter to reopen when they have the requested info	08:40
poelcat	hm	08:40
poelcat	probably nicer to give the "personal touch" of closing them yourself	08:41
arxs	SMParrish: yeah, thanks for the info, thats the same that i do on f10 bugs. But if the F9 bugs gets closed by EOL it's clearer for the reporter the the issuse can't be reopen	08:41
arxs	poelcat: ok, thats make round about 20 bugs less for EOL tagging :)	08:41
adamw	well, you can close them with a message saying to only re-open if they can reproduce on a _later release_	08:41
poelcat	adamw: yes, great point!	08:42
SMParrish	adamw: good point	08:42
adamw	the pre-written texts don't have to be strictly adhered to, you could just add a little to it	08:42
arxs	adamw: thanks for the hint	08:42
adamw	alright...anything else occur to anyone?	08:43
arxs	One general question, NM has many bugs in ASSIGN stare who are waiting on NEEDINFO for a long time, is that a task of Bugzappers or the Developer to track them?	08:44
arxs	s/stare/state	08:44
adamw	we agreed that it was good for the zappers to do it but not compulsory	08:44
arxs	ok, i talk to dcbw i've i should help him with it	08:45
adamw	so if you have time it would be appreciated for you to do what you can to get feedback	08:45
arxs	maybe one more question :) NM bugs are sometime kernel releated issues, or HAL, oder udev and so on. Sometime i not sure if i could change the component. Therefore, is it a good idea to CC the maintainer of the packages for example?	08:47
adamw	yes, definitely - if you think it involves another component as well but changing the component wouldn't be appropriate, that's absolutely the right thing to do	08:47
arxs	I'm a little afraid about it, because i won't spam there with bz mails :)	08:49
arxs	but ok, i will try this in feature, hope that brings the number of open bugs down :)	08:49
adamw	it's fine, really, don't worry about doing it :)	08:50
arxs	any hint who are the best person for kernel related things to CC?	08:50
adamw	for kernel it's a bit tricky; different people deal with different areas of the kernel	08:51
adamw	i believe there's an alias to which kernel bugs are usually assigned, i think if you cc that the mail should go to everyone appropriate	08:51
arxs	it's mostly wlan stuff	08:51
adamw	can anyone confirm? poelcat?	08:51
adamw	wlan stuff is usually John Linville	08:51
adamw	linville@redhat	08:51
arxs	i have seen that the intellinuxwireless BZ page is not in the "upstream" bugs list	08:53
adamw	yeah, it doesn't have everything	08:53
arxs	should i open a bug against bugzilla as RFC ?	08:53
adamw	i think you can file a feature request in bz itself to have that added	08:53
poelcat	i could be wrong, but i think kernel puts most things to a list	08:53
poelcat	actually there are a couple of pages about triaging kernel stuff	08:54
poelcat	KernelBugTriage	08:54
adamw	yeah, that says linville for wireless stuff	08:55
poelcat	should probably be in triage category	08:55
adamw	it's rather old and of uncertain provenance though :)	08:55
adamw	yeah it should be merged into some of our existing pages i think	08:55
poelcat	check with the kernel team, i believe they did most of those pages	08:56
arxs	poelcat: thanks for the link	08:56
adamw	and yeah, always ask if you're unsure	08:57
adamw	kernel team has a channel - #fedora-kernel	08:57
poelcat	sort of related, but a real good one KernelCommonProblems	08:57
adamw	so you can pop in there and ask if you need their input on something but you're not sure who to cc	08:57
adamw	well, i think it's about wrap-up time	08:58
adamw	thanks for coming everyone	08:59
arxs	thanks for all your hints	08:59
adamw	triage day in -bugzappers now!	09:00

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