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< BugZappers | Meetings
Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-06-30
Agenda: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00746.html
Attendees
- adamw (96)
- rjune_wrk (63)
- arxs (44)
- mcepl (38)
- LinuxCode (13)
- comphappy (13)
- SMParrish (9)
- poelcat (5)
- Viking-Ice (1)
- jlaska (1)
Meeting Recap
- topic - Triage Metrics - Update on the FAS integration and overall status.
Comphappy had FAS integration complete until some backend changes rolled through, this should be completed tonight. He'll have an update next week.
- topic - Component list update for the F12 cycle - Update on status.
Axrs completed the initial list, there was a overwhelming request for requirements information as well. he'll get that together for next meeting.
- topic - Bugzilla Legend - Unify bugzilla defs between RHEL and Fedora
This was on the add to agenda page, but is apparently obsolete.
- topic - Debugging pages
Adamw has been discussing unified debugging proceedure with some Ubuntu developers. This could give both projects more help clarifying debugging procedures and insuring the proper information gets to the developers assigned to bugs.
- topic - Open Floor
Mecpl needs testers for a new version of the GreaseMonkey script
- Action Item - comphappy get the fas intigration working until next week, likely tonight, done for Triage Metrics
- Action Item - arxs will update the list with requirements iformation for next meeting.
- Action Item - adamw will update on collaboration with Ubuntu on debugging procedures.
IRC Transcript
| rjune_wrk | #startmeeting | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
| comphappy | Here for 10min | 14:59 |
| LinuxCode | here | 14:59 |
| SMParrish | here | 14:59 |
| rjune_wrk | meeting bot commands are found at #link http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot | 15:01 |
| arxs | hello guys | 15:01 |
| rjune_wrk | arxs: backup chair for me? | 15:01 |
| mcepl | /me | 15:01 |
| arxs | rjune_wrk: well | 15:01 |
| mcepl | no, not me! | 15:02 |
| arxs | mcepl: no worry, i take it :) | 15:02 |
| rjune_wrk | #chair arxs | 15:02 |
| rjune_wrk | #topic - Triage Metrics - Update on the FAS integration and overall status. | 15:02 |
| rjune_wrk | comphappy: make your quick announcement? | 15:02 |
| * poelcat here | 15:03 | |
| * adamw here too | 15:03 | |
| rjune_wrk | #chair adamw | 15:03 |
| arxs | hmm, maybe comphappy can't here us as the bus? :) | 15:05 |
| comphappy | Alright I had fas intigration working last night locally then added some features jlaska wanted that meddled with the backend db and the thing blewup on me I need to take a look tonight. I also got component groups working via fast. | 15:05 |
| comphappy | Phone slow to typeon | 15:05 |
| rjune_wrk | comphappy: any chance of it being finished by the next meeting? | 15:05 |
| comphappy | Likely tonight | 15:05 |
| rjune_wrk | barring more backend meddling? :-) | 15:05 |
| rjune_wrk | Anybody else have anything to add? | 15:06 |
| * poelcat | 15:06 | |
| adamw | motion: quit listening to jlaska, he only causes trouble ;) | 15:06 |
| comphappy | Release is coming up soon it needs testing. | 15:06 |
| comphappy | adamw: Added rawhide features I think you willl like | 15:07 |
| poelcat | comphappy: how about the bugs/RFEs I filed? | 15:07 |
| adamw | comphappy: great work, thanks as always | 15:07 |
| comphappy | poelcat: At least a few are making it in | 15:07 |
| poelcat | cool, thanks! | 15:08 |
| rjune_wrk | Just for completeness, what is FAS an acronym for? | 15:08 |
| poelcat | comphappy: and thanks again for all your work on this | 15:08 |
| arxs | fedora account system | 15:08 |
| comphappy | Mostly this is features in the backend I am fixing. Ones that can't really be changed post release | 15:09 |
| arxs | you can find it on https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ | 15:09 |
| comphappy | But there are other fixes as well. | 15:09 |
| rjune_wrk | #link https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ | 15:09 |
| * comphappy done talking | 15:09 | |
| rjune_wrk | comphappy: go through the full list next week? | 15:10 |
| comphappy | rjune_wrk: Some no as they are fixes to other packages | 15:10 |
| rjune_wrk | good enough, thanks. | 15:10 |
| rjune_wrk | #topic - Component list update for the F12 cycle - Update on status. | 15:10 |
| rjune_wrk | arxs: your floor | 15:11 |
| arxs | #action comphappy get the fas intigration working until next week, likely tonight, done for Triage Metrics | 15:11 |
| arxs | ok, if send a mail to the f-t-l | 15:11 |
| comphappy | arxs: Looked like a good list to me | 15:12 |
| arxs | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00757.html | 15:12 |
| arxs | you can find the list at the wiki under https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Arxs/CPCL | 15:12 |
| arxs | comphappy: thanks | 15:12 |
| arxs | but one thing is maybe missing, a DE | 15:12 |
| adamw | does the proposal _remove_ any components? | 15:12 |
| arxs | adamw: it don't think to (you mean from the actually components and triagers list?) | 15:13 |
| adamw | yeah, does the new list miss any components that are on the old list | 15:13 |
| * comphappy off to quarterly review. | 15:13 | |
| arxs | no, my plan is (sorry if this was not clear) to bug the CPCL list into the actually components and triagers list, so that we have at the end only more items | 15:14 |
| adamw | cya comphappy, thanks a gain | 15:14 |
| arxs | s/bug/get/ | 15:15 |
| adamw | arxs: ah, ok. we don't want to grow forever, but that's probably good for this cycle, as we've been running out of components for new members :) | 15:15 |
| adamw | which is a good problem to have, heh | 15:15 |
| arxs | adamw: of course! :) | 15:15 |
| mcepl | these components are just symbolic names, right, you don't mean to test virtual components like xorg-x11-drivers for real? | 15:16 |
| adamw | in that case, looks good to me | 15:16 |
| adamw | some things we can pare; for xorg for instance we don't really need to consider _all_ drivers critical | 15:16 |
| mcepl | and I have never seen a bug against xorg-x11-xauth | 15:17 |
| arxs | mcepl: well, i think we should only take care of nouveau, radeon and intel | 15:17 |
| mcepl | the real drivers were is life are -ati, -intel, -nouveau, perhaps -vesa, to be sure | 15:17 |
| * SMParrish agrees | 15:17 | |
| adamw | openchrome is worth caring about too | 15:17 |
| adamw | (just about) | 15:17 |
| mcepl | yeah, I am forgetting ... it is not managed by RH engineers | 15:18 |
| adamw | aside from that, even if they're totally broken we'd probably still ship :D | 15:18 |
| mcepl | well, let me not comment on that ;-) | 15:18 |
| adamw | but in general, looks good | 15:18 |
| mcepl | (just spent whole day plowing through -ati bugs) | 15:18 |
| arxs | ok, i going to remove xauth and change the xorg-drivers to ati, nouveau, intel and openchrome | 15:19 |
| adamw | we might not need to worry about the compose packages as there's a fairly tight loop there between the guys building and the guys using | 15:19 |
| adamw | that's pungi, mash et al | 15:19 |
| arxs | that was also my feeling about, i think we should cut off the list after the line 'The following items are unchanged included here from skvidal's list.' | 15:20 |
| mcepl | what about Pulseaudio? why not? | 15:20 |
| arxs | mcepl: Pulseaudo is one the 'old' list, and it will remain there | 15:21 |
| adamw | some are worth having - bash, coreutils, gcc are things we could cover | 15:21 |
| mcepl | ok | 15:21 |
| adamw | the others there are important but mostly are so mature they're unlikely to suffer problems serious enough to care about | 15:21 |
| arxs | adamw: right, but how many bugs are there? (maybe gcc, but i don't check this) | 15:22 |
| arxs | any other suggestion's? | 15:23 |
| SMParrish | keep on mind that all dependenices of critical packages will also be critical packages | 15:24 |
| arxs | SMParrish: good point | 15:25 |
| adamw | yeah, we could look at the list of deps for anything in the final list | 15:25 |
| adamw | but i think overall we're good with arxs' list...thanks for your work there :) | 15:26 |
| SMParrish | what we need to do is generate a list of all the dependencies on the list arcs made to see how many packages were are talking about and how to group them | 15:26 |
| SMParrish | s/arcs/arxs | 15:26 |
| arxs | SMParrish: this can be done with "repoquery --wahtrequires" or i'm wrong? | 15:27 |
| adamw | just repoquery --requires | 15:28 |
| arxs | i will change the list to the given suggestion by you, and then bring up a second list with all the deps. | 15:29 |
| mcepl | no, repoquery --whatrequires --alldeps <package> | 15:29 |
| adamw | uh? i'm not sure we're on the same page :) | 15:29 |
| mcepl | (plain --requires is for groups) | 15:29 |
| adamw | --whatrequires foo gives you things that require foo, doesn't it? | 15:29 |
| adamw | that's not what we want | 15:29 |
| adamw | we want what foo requires | 15:29 |
| mcepl | yes | 15:30 |
| SMParrish | adamw is right | 15:30 |
| mcepl | sorry, once more | 15:30 |
| mcepl | yeah, but none of these will give you names of package, a sec | 15:30 |
| adamw | you need to pipe it a bit | 15:31 |
| mcepl | --requires --resolve is probably the right combination | 15:31 |
| adamw | oh yes, that does it - neat | 15:32 |
| SMParrish | thats it | 15:32 |
| adamw | i used to pipe that through another --provides query, that way's much better | 15:32 |
| adamw | (your way i mean :>) | 15:32 |
| arxs | i will try it, if not "yum remove" show also the deps :) | 15:32 |
| rjune_wrk | LOL | 15:32 |
| mcepl | yeah, but it has some side-effects ;-) | 15:32 |
| rjune_wrk | that everything for this topic? | 15:33 |
| SMParrish | so to get an idea gdm has the following deps that will have to be critical pkgs as well http://fpaste.org/paste/16920 | 15:33 |
| arxs | rjune_wrk: yes i think so | 15:33 |
| adamw | they don't necessarily have to be critical, but we should consider whether they are | 15:33 |
| mcepl | there's something wrong -- freetype-freeworld is not Fedora package | 15:33 |
| adamw | so arxs, make us another list :D | 15:34 |
| rjune_wrk | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Arxs/CPCL arxs's list of update componants | 15:34 |
| rjune_wrk | #action arxs will update the list with requirements iformation for next meeting. | 15:34 |
| rjune_wrk | #topic - Bugzilla Legend - Unify bugzilla defs between RHEL and Fedora | 15:34 |
| rjune_wrk | adamw: this one is for you | 15:34 |
| SMParrish | mcepl: could be because I have rpmfusion repos enabled here | 15:34 |
| adamw | er, it is? | 15:34 |
| mcepl | yup, I think so, just emphasizing | 15:34 |
| rjune_wrk | adamw sent a message to the list about this for beland. Hopefully we can | 15:34 |
| rjune_wrk | > have an update. | 15:34 |
| rjune_wrk | yup. | 15:34 |
| rjune_wrk | It's from the add it to the agenda page. | 15:35 |
| * adamw is lost...what message is this? | 15:35 | |
| rjune_wrk | I do not know, there is suprisingly little information on the agenda page to pick it up and track it | 15:35 |
| rjune_wrk | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers:meeting-agenda-list | 15:36 |
| adamw | well, er, i sort of abandoned unifying the definitions a while ago | 15:36 |
| adamw | what i've been working on since is just having the fedora definitions properly defined and linked to from bugzilla | 15:36 |
| adamw | i'm mostly done with that, as far as I knew :) | 15:36 |
| rjune_wrk | has that been communicated to beland? | 15:36 |
| adamw | is this an old addition to the agenda list maybe? | 15:36 |
| adamw | let me look at the wiki page history | 15:36 |
| rjune_wrk | could be. if so it needs to be removed. | 15:36 |
| adamw | yeah, it's old, last change to the page was 18 may | 15:37 |
| adamw | clean it out :) | 15:37 |
| rjune_wrk | will do | 15:37 |
| rjune_wrk | #topic - Debugging pages | 15:38 |
| adamw | now this one i know where we're at :) | 15:38 |
| rjune_wrk | good. | 15:38 |
| adamw | this came out of a qa proposal by viking-ice, but obviously touches on bz stuff as well | 15:38 |
| rjune_wrk | bz is? | 15:39 |
| rjune_wrk | bugzilla. | 15:39 |
| arxs | bugzilla | 15:39 |
| adamw | bugzappers | 15:39 |
| rjune_wrk | doh! | 15:39 |
| adamw | :D | 15:39 |
| adamw | i think the way the x.org page came out was great, and any contributions anyone can come up with to that or other debugging pages would be awesome | 15:39 |
| adamw | and if your triage component(s) don't have a page, consider making one | 15:39 |
| adamw | i've also had a proposal from a guy at ubuntu to work together on upstreaming the content of those pages where possible; anyone see any problems with doing that? | 15:40 |
| adamw | e.g. we'd merge the content of the ubuntu and fedora wiki pages on debugging x.org, and send it upstream to the x.org wiki | 15:40 |
| rjune_wrk | adamw: link to the x.org page? | 15:40 |
| adamw | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xorg/Debugging | 15:40 |
| mcepl | adamw: no, I think wiki is covered by CC license or something anyway .... but be sure to check versions of packages ... bubuntu is behind us (not that broken ;-)) | 15:41 |
| rjune_wrk | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xorg/Debugging | 15:41 |
| rjune_wrk | I think it's probably a good idea | 15:41 |
| arxs | well, the NM page is not ready for release: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Arxs/NetworkManager/Debugging | 15:41 |
| adamw | mcepl: that's the good part: debugging *procedures* aren't really distro specific | 15:41 |
| arxs | but i work on this :) | 15:41 |
| adamw | arxs: awesome! thanks a lot | 15:42 |
| adamw | looks like you've got a good start going | 15:42 |
| mcepl | sure, but I think they haven't immersed themselves into KMS that much, which may make things slightly different | 15:42 |
| adamw | if you need any help do shout on the list, we got the X page done collaboratively pretty well | 15:42 |
| adamw | mcepl: not really, it just needs a little bit in the intro to say "on distros X Y Z don't bother with the KMS stuff" | 15:42 |
| adamw | but in practice, current ubuntu releases have kms enabled by default, they just don't _do_ anything with it | 15:43 |
| mcepl | adamw: and there is continuation about input devices for X on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xorg/Input_Triage_Algorithm and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Input_device_configuration | 15:43 |
| mcepl | adamw: yeah, but we (and them) have to be aware of it | 15:43 |
| rjune_wrk | mcepl: KMS is ? | 15:43 |
| mcepl | kernel modesetting | 15:43 |
| arxs | Kernel Mode Setting | 15:43 |
| adamw | mcepl: sure, but i don't think that'd be a problem. that's part of what we could work on together. | 15:44 |
| mcepl | moving some parts of X drivers to kernel | 15:44 |
| mcepl | sure | 15:44 |
| adamw | so for now i've told that guy we'd probably be happy to go with it, and asked a few questions, and i'm waiting for a reply from him | 15:44 |
| adamw | once we have something concrete to propose, we'll take it to the list | 15:44 |
| rjune_wrk | wonderful, make it a brief update item next week? | 15:45 |
| adamw | sounds good | 15:45 |
| rjune_wrk | #action adamw will update on collaboration with Ubuntu on debugging procedures. | 15:45 |
| rjune_wrk | #topic - Open Floor | 15:45 |
| * LinuxCode raises his hand | 15:45 | |
| rjune_wrk | Yes. | 15:46 |
| arxs | rjune_wrk: did you know that the diff is from action and agreed ? | 15:46 |
| arxs | in MeetBot :) | 15:46 |
| rjune_wrk | action is person X will do something | 15:46 |
| rjune_wrk | agreed is there is a consensus | 15:46 |
| mcepl | I have almost ready release of next version of the Greasemonkey script, but I need to finish testing (we did something with arxs yesterday, but he hasn't confirmed me that I have fixed his problems). It is quite radical change, so I don't want to push it on you without testing. OTOH, if nobody volunteers, I just will and pick up the pieces. I need to move on with the stuff. | 15:47 |
| arxs | rjune_wrk: thanks for the info | 15:47 |
| adamw | mcepl: sorry i couldn't test for you earlier | 15:47 |
| * LinuxCode waits for voice | 15:47 | |
| rjune_wrk | mcepl: You're jumping the gun a little bit, and LinuxCode has something to bring up. | 15:47 |
| adamw | LinuxCode: you don't need voice, afaik | 15:47 |
| mcepl | adamw: there is always time for penitence ;-) | 15:47 |
| adamw | LinuxCode: we're not restricted | 15:47 |
| * mcepl shuts up | 15:47 | |
| LinuxCode | adamw, was just going to introduce myself as I just applied to the traiging group | 15:48 |
| arxs | mcepl: let's talk about it after the meeting? | 15:48 |
| LinuxCode | triaging | 15:48 |
| adamw | awesome! thanks for applying | 15:48 |
| rjune_wrk | LinuxCode: did you send your intro to the list? | 15:48 |
| arxs | LinuxCode: welcome ! | 15:48 |
| LinuxCode | rjune_wrk, no, didnt know that was required | 15:48 |
| adamw | you should actually apply to 'fedorabugs' rather than 'triagers' | 15:48 |
| mcepl | arxs: yeah, I just wanted to make announcement here ... apparnetly, nobody cares when I speak on #fedora-bugzappers | 15:48 |
| LinuxCode | but some of you might know me anyway | 15:48 |
| arxs | mcepl: i care :) | 15:48 |
| Viking-Ice | What's the story with this ubuntu debugging collaboration? | 15:48 |
| mcepl | adamw: what's triagers anyway? | 15:48 |
| mcepl | Viking-Ice: see above | 15:49 |
| adamw | LinuxCode: see the procedure :) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Joining | 15:49 |
| mcepl | Viking-Ice: do you need a backlog? | 15:49 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: i really just filled them in on what i mentioned to you in pm earlier | 15:49 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: nothing new, i haven't heard back from the guy yet | 15:49 |
| adamw | mcepl: i | 15:49 |
| adamw | mcepl: i'll explain outside the meeting, let's not fill up the logs | 15:49 |
| adamw | oh darn | 15:50 |
| adamw | i just realized you got it right and i was wrong, it's triagers not fedorabugs you should apply to, sorry :) | 15:50 |
| adamw | getting confused | 15:50 |
| LinuxCode | k so points 5 + 7 I still have to do | 15:50 |
| adamw | so just send your intro to the list and i'll approve you | 15:50 |
| LinuxCode | I get on it asap | 15:50 |
| rjune_wrk | LinuxCode: happy to have you. | 15:50 |
| adamw | that's right, thanks again | 15:50 |
| adamw | if you hang out in | 15:50 |
| adamw | grr | 15:50 |
| LinuxCode | well, every little helps | 15:51 |
| adamw | damn laptop keyboard...in #fedora-bugzappers after the meeting, some of us may be able to help you get started | 15:51 |
| rjune_wrk | mcepl: ok, knock yourself ut. | 15:51 |
| rjune_wrk | out | 15:51 |
| LinuxCode | adamw, sure, thomasj suggested I join the bugs group, but then somebody told me that it will slip into triage now | 15:51 |
| arxs | adamw: did you _not_ take your ibm type m keybord with out while you traveling? | 15:52 |
| adamw | arxs: surprisingly enough...no :) | 15:52 |
| adamw | LinuxCode: yeah, triagers was the right group, sorry to confuse | 15:52 |
| LinuxCode | thats ok, no worries | 15:52 |
| adamw | great to have you :) | 15:53 |
| LinuxCode | ;-} | 15:53 |
| rjune_wrk | we have 8 minutes left, lets get to mcepl and his update and close the meeting. | 15:53 |
| adamw | i had something to add, too, btw. | 15:53 |
| rjune_wrk | ok | 15:53 |
| rjune_wrk | you can be after mcepl | 15:53 |
| * arxs listen | 15:53 | |
| adamw | sure | 15:53 |
| mcepl | rjune_wrk: I think I said my stuff, just come to #fedora-bugzappers and let's beat the bugs out of the thing | 15:53 |
| rjune_wrk | please test so we have some testing. | 15:54 |
| rjune_wrk | adamw: all you | 15:54 |
| adamw | thanks :) | 15:54 |
| adamw | just on the priority / severity thing | 15:54 |
| adamw | the restrictions have been made in bugzilla and i updated the 'how to triage' page, so please be setting the 'severity' field for all bugs you triage from now on | 15:54 |
| adamw | the guidelines are pretty simple - most stuff is 'normal', bad breakage in the package is 'high', bad breakage that has implications distro-wide is 'urgent', really trivial stuff is 'low' | 15:55 |
| rjune_wrk | triagers get severity, and developers get priority, correct? | 15:55 |
| arxs | adamw: thanks to make this possible! | 15:55 |
| adamw | rjune_wrk: yes, according to mcepl's proposal. don't touch priority at all. | 15:55 |
| arxs | rjune_wrk: right | 15:55 |
| adamw | so to put this into use, we will be reviewing all bugs marked 'urgent' at the blocker review meetings, to make sure none of those that should be blockers slip through the net | 15:56 |
| arxs | i can see, from the triage of the last month, no severity war on more then 20 bugs :) | 15:56 |
| adamw | i'm also going to experiment with doing a weekly review of 'urgent' bugs, sent to f-t-l and f-d-l, to see how that goes: i'll write one this friday, if it works out well, it may be nice for someone else to take that over | 15:56 |
| adamw | i'll ask for volunteers in the mail :) | 15:56 |
| arxs | adamw: sounds good | 15:57 |
| mcepl | the main difference between urgent and high (just to emphasize) is that urgent breaks whole distro, high breaks (w/o workaround) just the particular app | 15:57 |
| rjune_wrk | Kevin_Kofler: we're wrapping up, you'll have it shortly. | 15:57 |
| mcepl | normal means there are some workarounds or some parts of app still work | 15:57 |
| rjune_wrk | and that all should be in the wiki page. | 15:58 |
| mcepl | and it's all highly dependent on component | 15:58 |
| mcepl | I think it is | 15:58 |
| adamw | yeah, i've updated one page but not the legend page yet | 15:58 |
| arxs | it is | 15:58 |
| adamw | which takes a slightly more formal approach | 15:58 |
| adamw | we can do that soon | 15:58 |
| rjune_wrk | ok, the KDE SIG is here for the room, let's give them a minute to setup. | 15:58 |
| adamw | yeah, we don't have to be too hard-and-fast on the definitions | 15:58 |
| jlaska | comphappy: <delayed response> I'm afraid adamw is right ... I do frequently just cause trouble :) | 15:58 |
| rjune_wrk | bugzappers event in #fedora-bugzappers. | 15:58 |
| adamw | the important thing is to have a useful continuum | 15:58 |
| adamw | thanks all! | 15:59 |
| rjune_wrk | ending in 5 | 15:59 |
| rjune_wrk | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
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