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spevack #startmeeting 10:00
@zodbot Meeting started Thu Jan 7 15:01:16 2010 UTC. The chair is spevack. Information about MeetBot at 10:00
@zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 10:00
spevack #topic Fedora Classroom -- Ambassadors Tips & Training 10:00
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Fedora Classroom -- Ambassadors Tips & Training 10:00
sspreitzer threethirty, its a french airport, they dont care about things like security as long as you speak french with them. ^^ 10:00
spevack Hi everyone! 10:00
threethirty hi max 10:00
biertie hi mr spevack 10:00
sspreitzer hey max 10:00
cmpahar hello 10:00
loupgaroublond 'afternoon all 10:00
derikonto hello 10:01
spevack Welcome to what is, I think, the first Fedora Classroom session of 2010. 10:01
slipp3d good day to all... 10:01
cunningham Hi All 10:01
franciscod hey everyone 10:01
tatica *\o/* 10:01
cmpahar it's the third session :P 10:01
spevack It's certainly the first Fedora Ambassadors Tips & Training session of 2010 -- we did a few of these sessions last year, but I haven't done one for probably 5 months or so, which means it's definitely time to do it again 10:01
biertie it's the first time I'm here anyway, so I am looking forward to learn ;) 10:02
cwtucker +1 10:02
threethirty +1 10:02
derikonto +1 10:02
spevack This is going to be a very interactive session -- I am going to try to ask some questions, and I hope that you guys will give responses, and ask questions of your own 10:03
spevack My goal is to be finished in 90 minutes, so we have a lot of time. 10:03
spevack Here's a general agenda for today: 10:03
spevack (1) What the Fedora Ambassadors project is, and why it is important. 10:03
spevack (2) What the Fedora Ambassadors project is *not*. 10:03
spevack (3) How Fedora Ambassadors interact with other parts of the larger Fedora Project. 10:04
spevack (4) How things operate for Fedora Ambassadors in your particular region of the world. What do you need to know? Where do you need to be paying attention to stuff? What are your resources? 10:04
... join!#fedora-classroom -> hiemanshu(n=hiemansh@fedora/hiemanshu) 10:04
spevack (5) Whatever else I feel like :) 10:04
spevack 10:04
spevack Before we get into that -- I'd like to hear from you. Where are you from, and how long have you been part of Fedora, or a Fedora Ambassador? 10:05
spevack #topic introductions 10:05
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: introductions 10:05
spevack go ahead :) 10:05
giannisk may i start? 10:05
biertie hi, I'm from Belgium, and I have been in the fedora project for about a year now 10:05
spevack everyone can talk -- no need to wait 10:05
* tatica = María Leandro = Venezuela // Fedora user since 2007, fedora ambassador since the same year :) 10:06
loupgaroublond 'lo, i'm yaakov m. nemoy, living in the netherlands, been with fedora since spring 2007, i'm an ambassador and rhce / sysadmin 10:06
cmpahar Hello my name is Christos Bacharakis, i am 22 years old, and i am a part of the fedora community the past one year and a half 10:06
* threethirty is in Richmond, IN, USA been using Fedora since the day after Ohio Linux Fest '09, ambassador since two days ago 10:06
cmpahar i forgot to say that i come from Greece :) 10:06
derikonto Hello, I am from France and I'm using fedora since Werewolf (fedora 8), and I'm Ambassador since a few day. 10:07
giannisk my name is Giannis,I am new ambassador from Greece and I have been using fedora for over 7 months... 10:07
franciscod hey,I'm Ankur,21, from India, been an ambassador for about a year and a half. 10:07
cunningham Hi, I'm from Western North Carolina, and am a Fedora user since Fedora 8, and am very new to the greater Fedora community 10:07
cwtucker Hi, Dallas, Texas area, been a regular user since, redhat 7, then to FC, put it on everyone around, decided to do more with the project, so I am recent ambassador as in two weeks ago 10:07
spevack threethirty: were you recruited by other Ambassadors at Ohio Linux Fest? 10:07
jensm Hi, i'm from Germany, using Fedora since F10 and beeing Ambassador since May'09 10:07
threethirty spevack: nope by spot 10:07
* spevack is thrilled to see so many new folks 10:07
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frankiemangoa hi 10:08
frankiemangoa have i missed anything in the meeting so far 10:08
brianritchie from Malaysia. Been lurking around > 1yr w/ Fedora. considering getting more active now that i am clear on my goals, career wise. 10:08
spevack so we've got folks here from literally all over the world. 10:08
sspreitzer my name is sascha and and im part of the project since maybe a year or two. im from germany and switzerland. i travel much and dedicated my private life to spreading the word of freedom. im 24, live in a relationship and have like 80 friends. yes, im a community guy. 10:08
franciscod frankiemangoa: we're introducing ourselves :) 10:08
sspreitzer i do linux since im 13 years old 10:08
etank Hi. I'm Eric Lake (etank) from Lexington KY and I have been an ambassador for about 1 month i think :) 10:09
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... join!#fedora-classroom -> delete(n=delete@ 10:09
sanju #lug-jaipur 10:09
etank been using Fedora for about that long 10:09
frankiemangoa i am frankiemangoa I am 21...just joined a fw weeks ago...from s.a but now in kenya 10:09
spevack Ok. Anyone else? 10:09
* tatica is so happy to see people from all over the world in a single chat room :D 10:10
* ke4qqq is here - David Nalley - from the US 10:10
slipp3d my name is Chris and i'm in the USA ... 29 ... 10:10
giannisk oh,i forgot to mention that I am 15 and a half years old ;) 10:10
... join!#fedora-classroom -> kital(n=jsimon@fedora/kital) 10:10
spevack giannisk: wow! Fedora contributors keep getting younger and younger. 10:11
* inode0 is sort of here - from the frozen tundra in Iowa 10:11
giannisk yes! ;) 10:11
cwtucker LOL@ the Tundra 10:11
spevack Ok -- now that we're done with introductions, I'll make my next point -- and tatica already sort of hinted at it. 10:11
... join!#fedora-classroom -> fugolini( 10:11
tatica o_O 10:11
fugolini hi 10:11
... join!#fedora-classroom -> rosset(n=rosset@unaffiliated/rosset) 10:11
spevack The range of people who have showed up for this session is remarkable. From 15 years old to 150 years old (inode0) -- and from all over the world. 10:11
slipp3d inode0, I don't know I would bet that us in Montana would be in that frozen tundra comment 10:12
... join!#fedora-classroom -> neverho0d( 10:12
spevack More than any other part of the Fedora Project, I believe that the Ambassadors group has the largest variety of people. 10:12
* fugolini agrees 10:13
spevack This is part of what makes the Ambassadors project valuable, but it also presents some challenges and that is something we'll talk about later. 10:13
tatica lol @ inode0 150 years old 10:13
spevack But now, I want to ask another question -- and I don't need all of you to answer or else we'll have chaos -- but I'd like a few people to answer. New folks. 10:13
spevack What do you think the purpose and goals of something like Fedora Ambassadors is? 10:13
sspreitzer may I? 10:14
cwtucker Promotion, Awareness. for starters. 10:14
cunningham To spread the good news that is Fedora ;) 10:14
threethirty to be an offical cheerleader for Fedora and Free Software 10:14
jensm To spread Fedora all over the world 10:14
jensm :) 10:14
spevack What else? 10:14
frankiemangoa fedora is there to provid solutions to problems that arise around the world in a clean way and best of all a free way 10:14
tatica omg... cheerleader 10:14
sspreitzer spread the word, speak to people, bridge it back to the project 10:14
cmpahar to show them the other side of operating systems 10:14
ke4qqq grow the contributor base 10:14
jensm to recruit new contributors :) 10:14
fugolini Find new users and contributors, ready to join the wide development of a great community and a great system 10:15
* tatica will add that beyond spread, ambassadors must be an example 10:15
giannisk Fedora Ambassadors spread fedora and promote free and opensource software 10:15
slipp3d to be the public face of fedora 10:15
spevack ok -- those are all great answers -- and I've seen basically all of the words that I was waiting for in these answers. 10:15
franciscod to help people learn about fedora, its different teams , how the community works.. 10:15
tatica you can't/must not spread what you don't do 10:15
spevack Let me comment on a few of these answers. 10:15
spevack Pretty much everything that folks said is correct -- but in my personal opinion, the #1 goal of Fedora Ambassadors is to be a friendly recruitment engine -- Fedora Ambassadors provide tremendous value in their ability to not only create new Fedora users -- but most importantly to *convert Fedora and Linux users* into Fedora *CONTRIBUTORS* 10:16
spevack It is a fundamental rule of communities that any community which is not growing is doomed to stagnation and failure. 10:17
spevack Fedora Ambassadors help make sure that the total Fedora contributor pool continues to grow and change. 10:17
spevack promoting Fedora, spreading the word about Free Software and its value, and showing people the other options in computing are all part of that 10:18
spevack and being the public face of Fedora at shows and conferences and schools is also part of it. 10:18
spevack But one of the things that I always come back to is the fact that we need to be looking for people who want to also help contribute back to the community. 10:18
spevack threethirty is a Fedora Ambassadors because of the folks he met at Ohio Linux Fest -- a show organized by Ambassadors, and that other Fedora folks like spot were also at doing Fedora stuff. 10:19
spevack The fact that threethirty is in this classroom today is a perfect example of the success of Ambassadors. 10:19
... join!#fedora-classroom -> constanton( 10:19
* spevack pauses for a few minutes for comments or questions 10:19
tatica I have something to add, since my experience as mentor now 10:20
spevack go ahead 10:20
* kital wants to add that an ambassador also is an interface between the groups where he is involved 10:20
kital ambassadors act in- and outside 10:20
kital eof 10:20
tatica ambassadors must have personal goals just next to make people use fedora and get more ambassadors. Sometimes ambassadors only try to recruit more ambassadors but we also need contributors to every team 10:21
spevack #topic What is Fedora Ambassadors? 10:21
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: What is Fedora Ambassadors? 10:21
frankiemangoa true but I must that sometimes there is a chalenge in holding these events in sure are we that the message we are spreading is the same across the globe.i think the functions of an ambassador can not be ust said in a few words..we need to expound on this especaally to new members.maybe revise the fnctions in a good way 10:21
spevack Two great points by tatica and kital -- and two points that we will probably discuss again later, but are worth mentioning again now. 10:21
frankiemangoa that is apart from what is in the wiki 10:21
tatica is an ambassador don't know how to contribute in anything, he must/should learn, so he/she can also encourage other people to help fedora and show that to the world 10:21
ke4qqq yes - perhaps to grow on that - it's also liaison between fp.o and other projects, and while not necessarily directly, but serendipitously growing the entire FLOSS ecosystem. For instance, we help zikula, and we both benefit. 10:21
spevack (1) In many cases, Ambassadors are able to serve as the interaction between different parts of Fedora. 10:22
tatica there is always a little time to do something more besides make an event or attend to one 10:22
tatica eof 10:22
spevack (2) Ambassadors need to be thinking about recruiting folks who can participate in ANY part of Fedora, not just other Ambassadors. Or else it's just a big pyramid scheme :) 10:22
etank ke4qqq: fp.o? 10:22
jensm etank, 10:22
etank thanks jensm 10:23
jensm ;) 10:23
spevack #topic Interactions between Ambassadors and the rest of Fedora 10:23
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Interactions between Ambassadors and the rest of Fedora 10:23
spevack I'd like to talk a little bit about this, and just share a few of my personal experiences 10:23
spevack Since it was mentioned by kital, it's worth spending some time here. 10:24
alukin .fas alukin 10:24
@zodbot alukin: alukin 'Oleksiy Lukin' <> 10:24
spevack Whenever I go to a Fedora event in my Ambassador role and talk to users or answer questions, here is what happens EVERY SINGLE TIME 10:24
spevack * About 50% of the time, I know the answer to the question and I can show someone a link or send them away 100% happy RIGHT THEN. 10:25
spevack * About 25% of the time, I have to write their question down, get their email address, and then send them the answer after I can find it myself. 10:25
alukin Hi everybady! Today is eastern X-mas, so... Merry X-mas and Happy New Year! 10:25
spevack * About 25% of the time, I have ZERO IDEA what the answer is, and I know that I'm going to need to talk to someone in a different part of Fedora in order to find out. 10:25
spevack This last part is particularly important for Ambassadors, for two reasons: 10:26
spevack Reason #1 -- It is OK to say "I don't know" 10:26
spevack No one expects a Fedora Ambassador to be an expert about everything, all the time. 10:26
spevack Reason #2 -- Fedora Ambassadors, as part of their job, need to *pay attention* to what is happening in different parts of the Fedora Project. 10:26
spevack This way, you can always have a pretty general understanding of what is going on -- you can talk about the current release, you can talk about features that are in the next release, etc. 10:27
spevack It's good to get to know other Fedora contributors in your region. If I'm at an event in Germany, for example, and someone has questions about packaging, I can point that person at Christoph Wickert and feel 100% confident that they will get the help they need. 10:27
spevack 10:27
tatica (sidenote: we can't do everything, but we have a team that can) 10:28
spevack Some Fedora Ambassadors are also very active in other parts of the project -- they are packagers, they are designers, they write documentation, etc. 10:28
alukin IMHO it is importtant for ambassadors to be a some kind of bridge between users and developers? 10:29
biertie spevack: +1 10:29
spevack 10:29
* spevack pauses for questions or comments, and to figure out from his notes what he wants to talk about next 10:29
biertie it's important to know the people in the project, and in the region, so you can direct people to other people that are more experts on that theme 10:29
biertie you have to learn to act as a team when you're at an event 10:30
... join!#fedora-classroom -> tux_addict(n=pikh@ 10:30
ke4qqq +1 - at a minimum at least subscribe to fedora-advisory-bard mailing list - and try and get involved in at least one other area of fedora 10:30
franciscod and its important to ask questions, as many as you can. 10:30
ke4qqq s/bard/board/ 10:31
biertie true, I know I still ask a lot of stupid questions :-) 10:31
franciscod a lot of folks dont ask questions because they're sort of scared of getting *flamed* 10:31
slipp3d franciscod, that was one of the hardest things for me to get over 10:31
tatica maybe the best thing an ambassador can do is to be a bridge between developers/designers/packagers and new contributors 10:31
sspreitzer i think you need to have a certain subset of social skills as an ambassador 10:31
franciscod slipp3d: :D 10:31
franciscod sspreitzer: +1 10:32
slipp3d and some thick skin ... 10:32
sspreitzer slipp3d, +1 10:32
* inode0 wonders if he is in the wrong place now that social skills are required 10:32
spevack slipp3d: thick skin is required in all open source projects :) 10:32
cwtucker LOL@inode0 10:32
* ke4qqq was thinking along the same lines as inode0 10:32
spevack heh 10:32
spevack #topic What should you be paying attention to within Fedora? 10:33
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: What should you be paying attention to within Fedora? 10:33
spevack Let's move on to this topic -- which will probably be a little bit shorter, but is worth mentioning. I'd like to involve some of our long-time Ambassadors in this topic as well. 10:33
alukin My expirience shows that people need to know some person near them to ask questions and get answers so task of Ambassador to be the right person who can find answers 10:33
spevack What are the things that you folks pay attention to, in order to keep up to speed with what's happening in Fedora, without it taking up your entire life 10:33
ke4qqq irc, and mailing lists - specifically #fedora-meeting and #fedora-ambassadors (though there are lots of other valuable chans) and..... 10:34
ke4qqq fedora-advisory-board and fedora-devel mailing lists are a nice place to start 10:34
franciscod IRC, mailing lists, the planet, FWN 10:34
ke4qqq +1 for the planet and FWN 10:35
spevack #link 10:35
biertie the planet: every morning the mailing lists talk to other people on irc the wiki about specific things 10:35
spevack #link FWN 10:35
spevack FWN == Fedora Weekly News 10:35
franciscod and importantly , attending meets whenever possible, whether on the IRC or physically if time permits 10:35
spevack #link 10:35
spevack #link 10:36
spevack kital, tatica: anything you want to add? 10:36
kital yes 10:36
franciscod #link ;) 10:36
tatica yes 10:36
spevack go ahead :) 10:36
alukin I'd like to point to sites like - it is very important to quicky find solution with quicky moving distro like Fedora 10:36
kital knowing the infrastructure that we use for communication and colaboration is imperative 10:37
franciscod alukin: +1 10:37
ke4qqq alukin: some of that is 'forbidden content' 10:37
slipp3d +1 for 10:37
tatica my personal experience is a little hard in this way. A lot of people come to me asking me a lot of stuff that most of the time I dont have a clue 10:37
... join!#fedora-classroom -> MohammedSafwat(n=mohammed@ 10:37
loupgaroublond i would add that following the docs and marketing lists are good too, keep up with drafts of release notes and publicly facing material 10:37
tatica a lot of new fedorians just need someone to hold their hands and help them to work 10:37
loupgaroublond if you can see where the buzz is going to be, you know what to research so you can talk more about it 10:37
alukin The point is: not all things can be officially discussed on Fedora site, I mean proprietary drivers and so on... 10:37
franciscod ke4qqq: forbidden? please elaborate a little? 10:38
tatica a good advice is to "let them think they are doing the things by their own" we are not gods to make everything for them 10:38
tatica we are only a support 10:38
biertie tatica: +1 10:38
kital so in my opinion every Ambassador should have something that could explain how we colaborate 10:38
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franciscod +1 tatica 10:38
tatica so we need to pay attention to this: 10:38
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tatica if we want great and active ambassadors, don't let them be lazy doing their task... 10:38
derikonto +1 kital 10:38
kital in my case it is a bit out of date ;) but maybe a good start for creating his own 10:38
kital 10:39
tatica we all have compromises, and the other ambassadors has to, help them to help you but don't do their work 10:39
spevack franciscod: come back to that question later on and we'll answer it -- i don't want to get side-tracked 10:39
spevack kital: would you tell folks about what that pdf you just linked to is? 10:39
spevack #link 10:39
franciscod spevack: aye 10:39
alukin ke4qqq, it id "forbidden" only in USA but Ok in EU 10:39
ke4qqq alukin: yes - and as an ambassador you represent the distribution - which can't include them - it's important to know why we can't. 10:39
kital spevack: something that could explain how we colaborate 10:39
franciscod i found this quite a long time back 10:39
franciscod #link 10:39
ke4qqq alukin: 10:39
franciscod probably very outdated 10:40
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ke4qqq Ambassadors/Conduct <-- first point is important - you are Fedora 10:40
frankiemangoa i agree some of these are realy outdated...have t be revised asap 10:40
kital spevack: but also a bit outdated and made for my purpose (german ...) 10:40
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alukin ke4qqq, sure I know that and I know why but the world is a bit bigger then USA :) 10:40
franciscod ke4qqq: understood, we use fedorasolved as a quick help at #fedora 10:40
spevack franciscod: that's an old presentation that I wrote, about 2 years ago 10:40
franciscod spevack: i found it somewhere, still show it around to folks :D 10:41
spevack franciscod: a lot of its ideas still apply, but the examples are a bit old. 10:41
spevack franciscod: i'm glad it's been useful 10:41
spevack Ok, to sum up this section a little bit and get us back on track: 10:41
spevack There are obviously a TON of resources for Fedora Ambassadors 10:41
spevack And we've linked to a lot of them here. 10:41
spevack I want to take a moment though, to talk about the Fedora Marketing team a little bit. 10:42
spevack Because there is a good overlap between Fedora Marketing and Fedora Ambassadors 10:42
spevack #link Marketing 10:42
spevack #link 10:42
spevack Earlier on in this session, someone made the excellent point that it is difficul to have a consistent message across different regions and languages worldwide. 10:43
spevack This is 100% true. 10:43
spevack Therefore, one of the things that we try to do in Fedora is to provide a *starting point* for people to have the right ideas and messages that we want to spread, and then allow folks to build their own talks around this core set of ideas. 10:43
spevack Where do these core ideas come from? The Fedora Marketing team. 10:44
spevack There are two links that I would like people to see: 10:44
... join!#fedora-classroom -> rosset(n=rosset@unaffiliated/rosset) 10:44
spevack actually, three links :) 10:44
spevack #link Foundations 10:44
spevack This is the four foundations of the Fedora Project. For the last year or so, whenever I have given the "general what is Fedora about/introduction to Fedora" talk at an event, I have always made a point of talking about the four foundations. 10:45
spevack These are pretty general 10:45
spevack But we also have more specific resources for folks. 10:45
spevack #link Marketing/TalkingPoints 10:46
spevack #link Fedora_12_Talking_Points 10:46
spevack The last link, in particular, I'd like to mention. 10:46
... leave!#fedora-classroom -> thm() 10:46
spevack Every single release, the Fedora Marketing Team produces a list of "talking points" about the new release. 10:46
spevack These are INCREDIBLY VALUABLE. 10:46
spevack Back when I was the Fedora Project Leader -- and I know that Paul Frields is the same way as the current Fedora Project Leader -- a list like this helps a ton when we are doing interviews with the press about the new release. 10:47
... join!#fedora-classroom -> yn1v(n=neville@ 10:47
spevack And it can help every single Fedora Ambassador 10:47
spevack to talk about some of the most interesting stuff in the release. 10:47
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etank do you recommend that ambassadors run rawhide at some point before the new releases to have a better idea of what to come? if so how soon before the actual release is recommended. 10:47
spevack You can see that we try to break it down into three categories -- things that everyone will like, things that sysadmins will like, and things that developers will like. 10:47
spevack Because those tend to be our three main user buckets. 10:47
spevack etank: good question. What do people think? 10:48
spevack first of all -- can someone please tell everyone what Rawhide is? :) 10:48
cwtucker development 10:48
threethirty do it in Virtual Box make life easy on yourself etank 10:48
frankiemangoa you have to keep updated...always..but closer to relaease....say a month or so 10:48
etank threethirty: that was my thought too 10:48
ke4qqq etank: I generally start at the alpha - it's also helpful to help during test days with QA - it's genreally low hanging fruit - I run LiveCDs til Beta -and install at beta 10:48
franciscod rawhide is the latest stuff that the package maintainers push to the public 10:48
biertie I think it's a matter of opinion, I don't run rawhide before the beta release, but if you run rawhide you have responsibilities like: reporting bugs, and having to deal with problem sometimes 10:49
franciscod note, that latest does *not* imply stable 10:49
spevack #link Rawhide 10:49
biertie and problem can be annoying when you are running rawhide on a computer you don't want to break:P 10:49
cwtucker It is 'fairly' stable on my macbook :) 10:49
spevack that's why running it in a virtual instance can be so useful, biertie 10:50
biertie hehe, touché 10:50
franciscod cwtucker: you've been lucky then :P rawhide is known to be "explosive" 10:50
cwtucker franciscod, can be.. 10:50
spevack etank: I think it's useful to have some knowledge of what is going on in Rawhide. 10:50
biertie anyway, I don't think you HAVE to do it, but it can help you when you have to talk about a new release: you know what's in it 10:50
spevack In the early part of a release cycle, maybe that is just knowing what the upcoming features are. 10:51
spevack As we get closer to the alpha and beta -- I think that it's a good idea to actually have Rawhide running *somewhere*. 10:51
* franciscod uses beta and updates it to stable once the release package is updated 10:51
spevack Especially at an event -- I think it's nice to be able to show someone "here is the current version of Fedora" and "here is the development version that will become the next release." 10:51
spevack it gives an Ambassador a chance to explain a bit about how Fedora's releases work, etc. 10:52
derikonto +1 spevack 10:52
spevack 10:52
etank that was my thought too spevack 10:52
spevack One of the things that I always try to do, whenever I have a conversation about Fedora with someone new -- is to ask a lot of questions, and try to figure out what that person cares the most about. 10:52
spevack Then I will talk to that person about whatever part of the Fedora Project is also working on the same thing. 10:52
spevack And try to help the person to see that there are a bunch of people RIGHT NOW working as a team on the sorts of things that this person cares about, and it's easy to go and help them. 10:53
spevack 10:53
spevack 10:53
spevack Ok -- any other questions or comments right now? 10:53
* spevack pauses for a moment to rest his fingers 10:54
frankiemangoa yeah 10:54
derikonto can I suggest a link about marketing ? 10:54
spevack go for it 10:54
derikonto #link 10:54
* fugolini needs to go. Thank you for this amazing lecture. I'll be glad to read the log of what will come next. Thank you Max for this wonderfull job! 10:54
frankiemangoa I think it is good for us then to advice pple to run that rawhide on virtual machine... 10:54
spevack fugolini: see you soon! 10:55
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> fugolini(Remote closed the connection) 10:55
spevack 10:55
spevack #topic Regional structure of Fedora Ambassadors 10:55
... zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Regional structure of Fedora Ambassadors 10:55
spevack We have about 30 minutes left 10:56
spevack And I think it's time to talk for a bit about how a project as large and spread out as Fedora Ambassadors actually works. 10:56
* sspreitzer needs to liftoff in 30 mins, plane boarding 10:56
spevack And the honest answer is that there is a little bit of chaos -- but we try to make sure that the chaos is organized, and regional :) 10:56
spevack The fedora-ambassadors-list is the global list for all Ambassadors 10:57
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> mohits("Leaving.") 10:57
spevack But we have regional meetings, where the Ambassadors from the same general area are able to discuss their local issues, organize their activities, and pool their resources. 10:57
* spevack goes to paste some links. 10:58
spevack ke4qqq, inode0, kital, tatica -- you guys can jump in with any comments that you have 10:58
spevack #link Ambassadors/Meetings 10:58
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> sanju("Leaving") 10:59
MohammedSafwat Can I jump in with anything I have? 10:59
spevack sure 10:59
MohammedSafwat OK, just go on, I do not want to interrupt :) 10:59
spevack The key point I want to make is that it is *ESSENTIAL* that you attend the meeting for your region, because that is where almost all of the decisions are made. 10:59
spevack The Fedora Ambassadors Steering Committee is sort of the oversight group of Ambassadors -- but they don't tell folks what events to go to, or how to spend their budget. Mostly we try to give complete decision making to the regions -- and most of that work is done in the local meetings. 11:00
spevack Anyone -- feel free to jump in with what you want to say. 11:00
spevack MohammedSafwat: go ahead 11:00
... join!#fedora-classroom -> mohammed(n=mohammed@ 11:01
franciscod we're trying to hold fortnightly meets at #fedora-india, been on schedule so far. the attendance has been steadily increasing :) 11:01
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spevack franciscod: where are those meetings being advertised? 11:02
tatica LATAM... latam... Latam is starting to grow up. Is not a secret to anyone that Brasil is the point of attention at this moment and maybe since ever. Our goal is to be more involved into everything 11:02
franciscod spevack: generally the fedora-india mailing list 11:02
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franciscod and blog posts 11:02
spevack franciscod: and if someone is a New Ambassador -- and only on fedora-ambassadors-list, how will then find out that the fedora-india list even exists? :) 11:02
tatica Latam is working hard, but some people are pushing too hard the local efforts that some of us are putting down... so 11:03
biertie spevack: I can add to that: next to the emea meeting, some groups hold extra meetings too (like we have a belux meeting) 11:03
inode0 mentoring process I hope 11:03
tatica little patience and goals are showing up... just like the examples of gomix with rpmdev. yn1v with freemedia and marketing 11:03
tatica myself having artwork in the official release 11:03
franciscod spevack: the new method involves mentorship, generally people of the same region, they make sure their "students" are around :) 11:03
etank how do the mentors work with the new ambassadors? 11:03
spevack franciscod: cool :) 11:03
franciscod but i will post to the ambassadors list in the future, to be on the safer side 11:04
spevack kital: do you want to talk a little bit about Mentoring? 11:04
etank what is the expectation on both sides 11:04
tatica I don't know what else to add since I work directly with contributors and ambassadors and not with organize items of latam 11:04
tatica yn1v, would you like to add something else from your point of view ? 11:04
spevack Any of our current Ambassadors want to talk about what Mentoring is like within the Ambassadors Project? 11:04
* spevack attempts to crowd-source this part of the classroom :) 11:05
* tatica want to add something to what mentoring should be 11:05
frankiemangoa i think he proces is ok. 11:05
frankiemangoa had a good one by nayyar ahmed 11:05
cmpahar when you are an Ambassador you have a mentor. One lucky guy who is always there to help you and show the direction 11:05
spevack how do you get your mentor? 11:06
biertie for me a mentor is somebody that cares about you, but off course, you have to gaint that respect 11:06
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ke4qqq pick it from a list on the wiki from your region 11:06
kital spevack was away 11:06
derikonto Mentoring is a good way to become a good ambassador 11:06
yn1v I think one of the new abassadors duties is to read a lot on the fedora wiki. Then you bump into many usefull things... 11:06
threethirty spevack: i chose ke4qqq becuase we have a mutual buddy 11:06
biertie I know I had a good mentor:: I asked him stuff, he helped me when I had troubles 11:06
kital find the mentoring process here 11:06
kital 11:06
biertie he sugested things, 11:06
yn1v like mailing list, but also features, work in progress 11:06
spevack #link 11:06
biertie but it's not a guy had holds your hand off course 11:07
inode0 spevack: Ambassadors/Join <- listed where when up 11:07
* franciscod heads out to dinner, mess closing, cya folks, good night 11:07
spevack thanks for coming, franciscod 11:08
spevack #topic What else? 11:08
tatica franciscod, :) 11:08
tatica ! 11:08
* inode0 will comment a little about mentoring 11:08
kital mentoring helped to gave new candidates a person to start with direct communication if no relationship to the project exists 11:08
spevack Ok -- for the folks who are long-time ambassadors -- what have I missed? What else should we talk to the new ambassadors about? 11:08
spevack inode0: go ahead! 11:08
sspreitzer ! 11:08
inode0 from the perspective of Fedora the mentoring process has a bit different purpose, easily stated I think 11:09
sspreitzer reimbursements 11:09
sspreitzer explain this topic plz to the crowd 11:09
inode0 make sure we get good representatives of the Fedora Project 11:09
tatica would be a good idea o get *ideas* of what are we doing ok and what should we change from new ambassadors? a feedback of what they see as new members that sometimes we forget for having too much responsibilities? 11:09
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> zodbot(Nick collision from services.) 11:09
inode0 I don't want to necessary make a life long commitment to each person I mentor 11:10
* sspreitzer needs to pack things in 10 mins 11:10
inode0 But I do make a commitment to Fedora to try my best to help that person be prepared to represent us 11:10
tatica a mentor should just follow the new ambassador work until he can do it alone 11:10
biertie inode0: lolz, well, it should be a pro-active roll, I think 11:10
tatica mentor is a support 11:11
kital sspreitzer: Reimbursements 11:11
kital ticket is imperative 11:11
ke4qqq spevack: talk about getting $stuff 11:11
spevack ke4qqq: you want to do it? :) 11:12
sspreitzer kital, where are the limits? will I be payed if I book a cheap airfare and hotel room ? 11:12
etank kital: the first link Reimbursements seems to not be working 11:12
spevack #topic Money! 11:12
* ke4qqq is afraid my regional bias limits my usefulness - I have no idea how it works outside of emea and na 11:12
spevack A few words about budget 11:12
... leave!#fedora-classroom -> simonzz() 11:13
* etank needs to contact his mentor 11:13
kital sspreitzer: bring your desire to famsco (ticket) and famsco will see if the benefit for fedora is good to help you out with something and if we have the money we will help you 11:13
* tatica doesn't want to talk about money 11:13
ke4qqq tatica: why not? 11:13
kital this is different from case to case - depends on the expected benefit 11:13
kital for fedora 11:13
spevack I am part of Red Hat's Community Architecture team -- and one of the things that my team has budget for is regional community building around the world. 11:13
kital or for the contributor 11:13
spevack A lot of this money is spent within the Fedora Ambassadors project. 11:14
tatica not now, not here 11:14
kital it is also good to sponsor a trip if this helps people to evolve personaly 11:14
spevack Mostly we spend it to help contributors either get to events, to have the resources they need to set up an event, etc. 11:14
sspreitzer kital, it is just an example. if i visit fosdem or cebit or openexpo? do i get a return or do I have to rethink 5 times whether I should play with money? 11:15
spevack We often subsidize travel for community members, and we make lots of swag to give away at Fedora events -- stickers, shirts, etc. 11:15
tatica question: 11:15
tatica for latam... every budget request must pass for Rodrigo and his boss? 11:15
kital you definitely should be aware that we are not a trave funding agency ;) 11:15
spevack sspreitzer: for big events, we often will have a "travel sponsorship" budget and people who need either a partial or a full sponsorship can get it. 11:15
... join!#fedora-classroom -> zodbot(n=supybot@fedora/bot/zodbot) 11:16
sspreitzer wow ok 11:16
spevack but kital is right -- it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to pay the travel costs of everyone who wants to attend FOSDEM, for example 11:16
spevack we'd have no money left. 11:16
spevack sspreitzer: there is no 100% firm rule -- simply because we need to have flexibility. 11:16
kital so fosdem is a major event and also a meet up and it make sence to get as much people together as we can to meet and plan for 2010 11:16
kital but it would not make sence to make this for every event 11:17
biertie kital: +1 11:17
spevack but my personal belief is that Ambassadors are already giving us lots of their time and effort -- and I don't want them to have to spend lots of their own money also. We have a budget, and we should use it to help grow the project. 11:17
ke4qqq in FAMNA we try and pay for speakers who are traveling, if they request it, but not every person who attends an event on our behalf - but there are exceptions. 11:17
sspreitzer spevack, im not satisfied by this answer. there should be a commitment. 11:17
tatica :X 11:17
kital so as told before - it depends from case to case and it is imperative to communicate and point out why it is important for you to do things and also imperative if you get sponsoring to make proper eventreports and tell us what achievements we had 11:18
spevack sspreitzer: ok -- we'll talk about it more outside of this classroom session, and I'll try to make some more firm guidelines. 11:18
sspreitzer basically its up to my risk, and its RHs revenue. sry, this is no good world. 11:18
spevack tatica: we can talk about regional budget issues outside of this classroom session also -- perfect for a famsco meeting :) 11:18
ke4qqq sspreitzer: so submit your proposal to the regional leaders in EMEA - see if they want to fund you. 11:18
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spevack sspreitzer: typically someone will come to their regional meeting and say "hey, I have a budget request for $X and here's what we're going to do with it" and then we try to make it happen. 11:19
spevack And if that budget request includes travel, so be it. 11:19
spevack We would never make somene spend money first, and then *maybe* get a reimbursement or maybe not. 11:19
spevack zodbot seems to be dead, along with the Fedora wiki :) 11:19
biertie problems witht he load balancer :( 11:20
sspreitzer ok, spevack we will have to qry this later 11:20
cwtucker wiki is running rawhide today :) 11:20
sspreitzer i need to board my plane now, see you guys 11:20
* spevack is learning from this part of the meeting that famsco needs to make its pages that deal with all things around budget process better 11:20
threethirty later on sspreitzer 11:20
sspreitzer ;> 11:20
spevack ok -- we've got about 10 minutes left in this classroom. Any other questions or comments or anything people want to say? 11:20
ke4qqq spevack: +1 I am convinced some of the date back to 2006 11:21
frankiemangoa thanks also out..will review the logs later..learnt a lot. 11:21
spevack ke4qqq: that's bad. 11:21
ke4qqq yep 11:21
* tatica just waiting for famsco meeting 11:21
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> sspreitzer("Verlassend") 11:21
spevack Ok -- well in conclusion, I want to say Welcome again to all of our new Ambassadors 11:21
... signoff!#fedora-classroom -> constanton(Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:21
... leave!#fedora-classroom -> frankiemangoa() 11:22
spevack The best thing you guys can do is ask lots of questions, and don't be afraid to make mistakes. 11:22
... join!#fedora-classroom -> mohammed(n=mohammed@ 11:22
spevack Nothing bad will happen! 11:22
tatica I can bite you all 11:22
tatica :D 11:22
threethirty thanks for this spevack it was super helpful 11:22
spevack And remember -- your mission is to help make people excited about Fedora. 11:22
biertie no you can't tatica 11:22
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tatica lol 11:22
etank thanks for the insight spevack. fantastic class 11:22
spevack It's fun, and rewarding. You are the folks helping to grow our community every day. 11:22
tatica have fun being ambassadors, and make everyone else feel the same 11:22
slipp3d thanks spevack ... i picked up a few things that i didn't know 11:22
spevack We'll do it again in a month or two, I'm sure. 11:22
spevack Have a good day or night, everyone, depending on where you are in the world! 11:23
spevack #endmeeting 11:23
* hiemanshu missed the class, anyone being kind enough to post a log for me please? 11:23
cmpahar thank you very much Max. It was a wonderful and very mentoring class 11:23
biertie has anyone logged the session? 11:23
yn1v tatica, should we review this log and make one ambassadors classroom in Spanish ? 11:23
* ke4qqq thinks spevack should put this into a presentation we can push to new mentees as well :) 11:23

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