Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20060525

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Summary

Present from FESCo: thl, ensc, jpo, warren, thomasvs, jeremy, scop, Sopwith

  • buildsys-build
  • Just a bit background information: The list of packages that mock installed by default currently doesn't match the list of exceptions documented in the packaging guidelines . We currently try to clean this mess up a bit and bring the guidelines and mock in sync. There was some discussion about this on the FESCo mailing list. The plan was to kick out these:
  • autoconf
  • automake
  • automake14
  • automake15
  • automake16
  • automake17
  • bison
  • buildsys-macros
  • byacc
  • createrepo
  • ctags
  • diffstat
  • doxygen
  • flex
  • gdb
  • gettext
  • indent
  • intltool
  • libtool
  • openssh-server
  • patchutils
  • perl-XML-Dumper
  • perl-XML-Parser
  • perl-XML-SAX
  • pkgconfig
  • rpm-python
  • strace
  • which

Some of those on the list (especially which, pkgconfig and gettext) are still under discussion. See this mail for some more details. The consens in the meeting was to let "which" out, but it is included in the mdomsch's build efforts now (he extended those to Extas during the weekend). So chances are high that we'll let is stay in the default buildroot.

  • jeremy> | having the packages with .pc files require pkgconfig instead of having pkgconfig in the base set is fine by me
  • Do you plan to change it for all supported distributions, or only for the development branch? Undecided, maybe all. But is that worth the trouble?
  • The plan is to list the explicit "Exceptions" and the extrapolated list (packages that are pulled in via deps or are intalled by default; maybe we need to be list them separately for all distro versions)
  • Encourage Extras reviews (warren, tibbs)
  • some ideas from tibbs at http://www.math.uh.edu/~tibbs/review-brainstorm
  • Fedora Extras metrics (Sopwith)
  • Sopwith> | Heheh, well, I have been ignoring it for months now.
  • Sopwith> | Right now, in the bigger picture, we need to start recruiting developers to write code for metrics and other infrastructure pieces.
  • thl> | Sopwith, we/you probably should talk to Christian; he creates http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/PackageStatus
  • Sopwith> | If there is any access I can give him to make hosting his stuff easier, I'd be happy to.
  • CVS access (not on the schedule)
  • thl> | I'd like to trow this in while jeremy and Sopwith are around
  • thl> | are there chances that we can open CVS a bit more? e.g. round about proposed here .
  • jeremy> | thl: it should be possible to do; shouldn't be too hard I don't think
  • thl> | Sopwith, jeremy, btw, are you aware of https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2006-May/msg00510.html (that's the CTRL-C problem)
  • warren> | CTRL-C problem cannot be solved unless we make the server take care of that entirely...
  • warren> | thl, may I suggest that we defer attempting to fix that, because we are seriously looking at replacing CVS with something else after FC6.
  • thl> | we should fix it soon
  • scop> | not a fix, but package push reports help in identifying susceptible builds
  • thomasvs> | it's easily doable - add an ampersand to the trigger, if it runs in the background it can't be interrupted
  • jeremy> | would need to be tried, it could have other side effects
  • nirik> | as someone pointed out, you can just upload a new .tar.gz to the lookaside with your evil changes in them... no one is likely to catch that.
  • tibbs> | Push ACLs down to the individual packages?
  • scop> | nirik, I assume that buildsys checks md5sums from the "sources" file for everything in lookaside cache
  • that wrong -> the sums are not checked (that has problems when upstream servers are down or rearrange their layout or ...) and we have modified tarballs (mp3 stuff removed)
  • tibbs> | Assuming it's relatively easy to give others permission, and the people who need it will always have permissions, what are the objections?
  • no conclusion was found -> skipped
  • Weekly sponsorship nomination
  • wart (Michael Thomas) was accepted
  • mdomsch was nominated (will be discussed next week)

Full Log

0:00            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCO Meetingin progress
0:00 <         thl> | hi everybody
0:00 <         thl> | I'm only partly here
0:00 <         thl> | also on the telephone atm
0:00 <         thl> | who's around?
0:01              * | ensc
0:01 <         jpo> | I borrowed the emacs/xemacs triggers from fedora-rpmdevtools
0:01 <      warren> | I'm here, but I haven't managed to make any progress in the past week due to my e-mail being hoesd.
0:01 <    thomasvs> | I am
0:01 <      warren> | hosed.
0:01 <   > | i'm here
0:01              * | thl also had a headache and a cold
0:01 <       tibbs> | rabble
0:01              * | bpepple is lurking about.
0:01              * | abadger1999 exists
0:02              * | scop is here
0:02 <         thl> | okay, let's start
0:02 <         thl> |  emacs-muse -> spot not there and should be done in any case
0:02              * | jeremy is around-ish
0:02 <         thl> | buildsys-build -> spot not there
0:03 <         thl> | do we want to discuss this without him?
0:03 <      jeremy> | thl: I think we largely had consensus on it
0:03            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCO Meetingin progress -- buildsys-build
0:03 <      warren> | jeremy, use the Exceptions list and explicitly list everything that it pulls in?
0:03 <         thl> | jeremy, what was the consens with gettext ?
0:04 <      jeremy> | thl: I'm okay with not having it be in exceptions -- a spot check of packages showed the buildrequires being there
0:04 <         thl> | jeremy, and pkgconfig
0:04 <         thl> | ?
0:04 <      jeremy> | having the packages with .pc files require pkgconfig instead of having pkgconfig in the base set is fine by me
0:04              * | scop sees no reason to except pkgconfig
0:05 <        ensc> | afaik, pkgconfig is required by rpm scriptlets
0:05 <        ensc> | (which produce ugly warnings else)
0:05 <        scop> | which ones?
0:05 <        ensc> | (e.g. about broken pipes)
0:05 <      warren> | I'm 60% leaning towards adding pkgconfig to exceptions.
0:05 <        ensc> | find-provides.pkgconfig
0:05 <        ensc> | contains
0:05 <        ensc> | test -x $pkgconfig || exit 0
0:06 <        ensc> | and some find-requires clue pipes a filelist into this script
0:06 <        ensc> | but these are only warnings; no errors
0:06 <        scop> | sounds like a bug in rpm/redhat-rpm-config to me
0:07 <        ensc> | yes
0:07 <        ensc> | but I was shocked by the find-requires script and did not write a report yet
0:07 <        ensc> | ;)
0:07 <      warren> | I move that we add pkgconfig to the exceptions list.  It is simple enough and self-contained, it doesn't pull anything else in.
0:07 <        scop> | -1
0:08 <         thl> | -0.5
0:08 <      warren> | -1
0:08 <      warren> | =)
0:09 <        ensc> | -1
0:09 <      warren> | so we're pretty much going with the fedora.us exception list as-is?
0:09            --> | |Jef| (Spacious..he's so!)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:09 <       tibbs> | Is the list expected to change over time?
0:10 <         thl> | warren, I suppose we go for the list spot posted to fesco-list ?
0:10            --- | mebrown_laptop_ is now known as mebrown_laptop
0:10 <      jeremy> | tibbs: at least not often
0:10 <         thl> | warren, in the mail that starts with "Here is the extrapolated list of Exceptions..."
0:11 <      warren> | my mail has been screwed lately
0:11              * | warren attempts to find it
0:11 <       tibbs> | OK.  Do you plan to change it for all supported distributions, or only for the development branch?
0:11 <        scop> | all
0:11 <         thl> | tibbs, good question
0:11 <         thl> | all +1
0:11 <         thl> | might make some trouble
0:12 <      warren> | thl, I believe that is fedora.us exceptions + anything it pulls in.
0:12 <        scop> | right
0:12 <       tibbs> | I will certainly be happy to review against whatever list you determine, but some folks might torqued if stuff stops building.
0:12 <         thl> | warren, yeah, looks like it
0:12 <         thl> | tibbs, maybe we should ask mdomsch to make a rebuild check for extras, too
0:13 <         thl> | jeremy, btw, is this change also okay for core?
0:13 <        scop> | but dependencies change, and listing the extrapolated list is slightly harder to document and may require a bit more maintenance
0:13 <      warren> | did mdomsch use that set in his core build test?
0:13 <     bpepple> | warren: No.
0:13 <         thl> | warren, he probably uses the old set
0:13 <         thl> | with autoconf and other stuff that we kick out currently
0:13 <      warren> | scop, in that case, I move that we list both the Exceptions list, and the extrapolated list.
0:13 <      warren> | the extrapolated list can be regenerated based on the Exceptions list
0:13 <         thl> | warren, +1
0:14 <       tibbs> | Seems reasonable.
0:14 <        scop> | works for me, but it probably needs to be listed separately for all distro versions
0:14 <        scop> | (in case there are differences)
0:14 <      warren> | We could also diff the extrapolated list to make sure we know what appeared/disappeared
0:15 <        scop> | that would be useful, yes
0:16 <         thl> | okay, let's work out the details when spot is back
0:16 <         thl> | but we agreed on the general direction from spots mail
0:16 <         thl> | e.g. kick autoconf and some other stuff out
0:16 <      warren> | nod
0:16 <      jeremy> | right
0:16 <       tibbs> | If mdomsch shares his scripts I'll be happy to try an extras rebuild; I have ten or so quad opteron boxes I can throw at it.
0:17 <      warren> | tibbs, home heating system? =)
0:17 <         thl> | this ones are kicked out then: autoconf automake automake14 automake15 automake16 automake17 bison buildsys-macros byacc createrepo ctags diffstat doxygen flex gdb gettext indent intltool libtool openssh-server patchutils perl-XML-Dumper perl-XML-Parser perl-XML-SAX pkgconfig rpm-python strace which
0:17              * | scop giggles
0:17 <       tibbs> | Great!
0:17 <      warren> | openssh-server was an odd one
0:17 <        scop> | well, buildsys-macros probably need to stay in, no?
0:18 <         thl> | scop, agreed :)
0:18 <      warren> | scop, add that to Exceptions list?
0:18 <        ensc> | what is with 'which'?
0:18 <        scop> | openssh-server is a relic from mach
0:18 <       nirik> | which is used by a lot of configure scripts...
0:18            --> | finalzone (gaim)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:18 <      warren> | Hmm... maybe we should add which?
0:18 <       nirik> | ie 'which perl' to find out what to call perl with.
0:19 <        scop> | buildsys-macros is not available in FC/FE, I think it's only in a buildsys private repo
0:19 <      warren> | Anybody else support the idea of adding which?
0:19 <       tibbs> | It would be nice to know what breaks if a particular package gets pulled.
0:19 <         thl> | warren, yeah, let's add it
0:20 <      warren> | Anybody object?
0:20 < abadger1999> | Wouldn't the argument for which also apply to pkgconfig?
0:20 <         thl> | some Makefiles probably rely on it, too
0:20 <        scop> | openssh-server had something to do with the *host's*, not chroot's openssh-server possibly restarted/stopped on some operations
0:20            --> | Sopwith (Undisclosed)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:20              * | scop throws in a blanket -1 to any additions
0:21 <      warren> | I must disagree in the case of which.
0:21 <         thl> | warren, let's skip the addition of which now
0:21 <      warren> | ok
0:21 <         thl> | we can readd it later if it should be needed
0:21 <         thl> | okay, let's move on then
0:21            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Encourage Extras reviews
0:21 <         thl> | warren, tibbs, any news?
0:21 <       tibbs> | I know warren's mail is still screwed.
0:21 <        scop> | yep, I think it's better to just try with the current list and see how it works, then add some packages if clearly needed
0:22 <       tibbs> | Warren, what I sent you has been placed here: http://www.math.uh.edu/~tibbs/review-brainstorm
0:22 <   > | Hi Sopwith
0:22 <     Sopwith> | 'sup
0:23 <       tibbs> | One of the items strays into Christian's domain.
0:23 <       tibbs> | Another requires input from the buildsys guys to see if it's remotely feasible.
0:24 <       tibbs> | The rest is documentation.
0:24            <-- | jpo has quit (Connection timed out)
0:24 <         thl> | tibbs, thx; I'll look over it, too, but I think we'll move on for today
0:24 <       tibbs> | Fine with me.
0:25            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- Fedora Extras metrics
0:25 <         thl> | Sopwith, still around?
0:25 <         thl> | that's your item
0:25 <     Sopwith> | yup
0:25 <         thl> | Sopwith, Some new metrics: "What's the longest time that a package has been stalled in an FE- state?" and "how many packages are in various FE- states over time?" Also around for a long time already. We have the pacakge reports from c4chris these days -- do they cover everything we're interested in?
0:25 <     Sopwith> | Heheh, well, I have been ignoring it for months now.
0:25 <         thl> | do we still need that
0:25 <         thl> | we have http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/PackageStatus
0:26 <     Sopwith> | Right now, in the bigger picture, we need to start recruiting developers to write code for metrics and other infrastructure pieces.
0:26 <      warren> | (including package database)
0:26 <      warren> | Oh, I have half finished notes of goals for package database from last week
0:26              * | warren needs to unfsck his mail...
0:26 <     Sopwith> | Yea, well, we have goals up the wazoo, but nobody who is willing to see them through to completion.
0:27 <         thl> | Sopwith, we/you probably should talk to Christian
0:27 <         thl> | he creates http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/PackageStatus
0:27 <         thl> | with some sort of scripts; they are in cvs already afaik
0:27 <     Sopwith> | Cool :)
0:27 <     Sopwith> | If there is any access I can give him to make hosting his stuff easier, I'd be happy to.
0:27 <         thl> | Sopwith, maybe he can interate some more stuff that you have in mind
0:27 <      warren> | thl, where should we discuss on a list about package database?
0:28 <         thl> | Sopwith, might be a good idea
0:28 <      warren> | thl, (technically this is both infrastructure and extras)
0:28 <         thl> | Sopwith, can you send Christian a mail ?
0:28 <         thl> | so your old efforts and his can be merged?
0:29            --> | jpo (Unknown)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:29 <         thl> | warren, good question
0:29 <         thl> | warren, infrastructure is a mostly closed lost iirc?
0:30 <         thl> | warren, maybe fedora-extras-list is the proper place for a public discussion
0:30 <         thl> | and a hint on infrastructure-list should suffice
0:31              * | thl will move on soon
0:31 <      warren> | that's fine
0:31            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting -- CVS access (not on the schedule)
0:31 <         thl> | I'd like to trow this in while jeremy and Sopwith are around
0:32 <         thl> | are there chances that we can open CVS a bit more? e.g. round about this:
0:32 <         thl> | new contributors get access to cvs
0:32 <     Sopwith> | thl: There's a fedora-sysadmin-list, but I think fedora-extras-list is just fine if there is more deciding to be done
0:32 <         thl> | but are not allowed to request builds?
0:32 <         thl> | jeremy, Sopwith would that be eays to realize ?
0:32 <       tibbs> | What would this be used for?  co-maintainers?
0:33 <         thl> | tibbs, yes
0:33 <      warren> | thl, not allowed to request builds?
0:33 <      warren> | huh?
0:33 <    thomasvs> | warren: they would have to ask someone who can request builds to verify they're not doing something wrong
0:34 <      warren> | what does that have to do with "opening CVS more"?
0:34 <      warren> | That should be handled at the buildsys level?
0:34 <         thl> | warren, https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2006-May/msg00506.html
0:35 <    thomasvs> | warren: they would have cvs access to be able to change specs, not push a build
0:35 <         thl> | Sopwith, jeremy, btw, are you aware of https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2006-May/msg00510.html
0:35 <      warren> | Shouldn't that just be another permission flag?
0:35 <    dgilmore> | if they dont have a plague account they cant build
0:35 <         thl> | Sopwith, jeremy, we should fix this CTRL-C problem
0:35 <       tibbs> | They'd still have to be cvsextras members, right?  Sponsorship and all?
0:36 <         thl> | tibbs, maybe a different group in the accounts system
0:36 <         thl> | cvsextras-novice
0:36 <         thl> | or something like that
0:36 <       tibbs> | OK, who gets to add people to that?  Anyone in cvsextras?
0:37 <         thl> | tibbs, good question; maybe yes
0:37 <      jeremy> | thl: it should be possible to do
0:38 <      jeremy> | (sorry, had someone come to bug me)
0:38 <         thl> | possible = hard or easy ?
0:38 <       tibbs> | My concern is that it's a bit of a restrictive permission model.  I'd more often want to say: I'm going on vacation; you test this release and push a build if it doesn't break anything.
0:38 <      jeremy> | thl: shouldn't be too hard I don't think
0:39 <       nirik> | what problem is this trying to solve? getting people to contribute without having to have a package reviewed/accepted?
0:39 <    dgilmore> | tibbs: right now anyone can do that
0:39 <         thl> | nirik, https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2006-May/msg00506.html
0:39 <       tibbs> | dgilmore: Anyone who already has cvsextras membership.
0:39 <    dgilmore> | tibbs: yes
0:40 <         thl> | jeremy, and the CTRL-C problem with regards to prevent that diffs are send to commits-list?
0:40 <         thl> | jeremy, we really should fix that
0:40 <         thl> | especially now that hans talked about it on a public list
0:40 <         thl> | jeremy, see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/2006-May/msg00510.html in case you don#t know what I#m talking about
0:41 <      warren> | CTRL-C problem cannot be solved unless we make the server take care of that entirely...
0:41 <      warren> | async even?
0:42 <       tibbs> | Yea for CVS.
0:42 <      warren> | thl, may I suggest that we defer attempting to fix that, because we are seriously looking at replacing CVS with something else after FC6.
0:43 <         thl> | warren, I'm not really glad about that idea
0:43 <         jwb> | me either
0:43 <      warren> | thl, which part?
0:43 <         thl> | warren, not fixing this problem
0:43 <         thl> | we should fix it soon
0:43 <         thl> | e.g. let's say in the next two weeks
0:43 <      warren> | are there any suggested ways of doing it?
0:43 <         thl> | warren, I don#t know the deatils how the mails are generated
0:43 <       tibbs> | My experience with CVS is that it's not really doable.
0:44 <         thl> | :-/
0:44 <        scop> | not a fix, but package push reports help in identifying susceptible builds
0:45 <         thl> | scop, someone would need to check everything in that case
0:45 <         thl> | I doubt that someone does
0:45 < abadger1999> | Kinda hacky but what about a mail message on make plague?
0:45 <    thomasvs> | it's easily doable - add an ampersand to the trigger
0:45 <    thomasvs> | if it runs in the background it can't be interrupted
0:46 <         thl> | warren, jeremy, would that work?
0:46 <      jeremy> | would need to be tried
0:46 <      jeremy> | it could have other side effects
0:47 <         thl> | warren, jeremy, or would that at least make the chance of interrupting the mail generation smaller?
0:47 <      warren> | I was under the impression that it could be easily bypassed anyway
0:47 <      warren> | the CVS system as is today relies largely on trust
0:47 <      warren> | that nobody will screw it...
0:48 <         thl> | warren, we are so many people now
0:48 <         thl> | sooner or later someone will do something bad
0:48 <         thl> | I'd like to avoid that
0:48 <       nirik> | as someone pointed out, you can just upload a new .tar.gz to the lookaside with your evil changes in them... no one is likely to catch that.
0:48 <         thl> | nirik, exactly
0:49 <    dgilmore> | thl: i think people  figure  that what you do can always be undone
0:49 <       tibbs> | Push ACLs down to the individual packages?
0:49 <         thl> | tibbs, seems a lot of people don't like that idea but I think there is no way to avoid that in the longer term
0:50 <        scop> | nirik, I assume that buildsys checks md5sums from the "sources" file for everything in lookaside cache
0:50 <       tibbs> | Assuming it's relatively easy to give others permission, and the people who need it will always have permissions, what are the objections?
0:50 <         thl> | scop, but who checks the md5sums?
0:50 <       nirik> | sure... but if you upload it, who is checking that the md5sum matches upstream?
0:51 <        scop> | ok, assuming that the commit mail can still be prevented, yep, that's a problem
0:51 <    dgilmore> | nirik: no one.  only way to make sure it 100% matches updtream  is to have the server pull directly from upstream
0:51 <       nirik> | exactly.
0:51 <    thomasvs> | that would be a nice feature though
0:51 <    thomasvs> | bail if they're different
0:51 <       tibbs> | We have packages with necessarily modified upstream sources.
0:52 <    thomasvs> | tibbs: still ? which ?
0:52 <       tibbs> | Besides, if I control the specfile, I control where "upstream" is.
0:52 <      _wart_> | And sourceforge downloads are not the most reliable...
0:52 <    dgilmore> | thomasvs: anything with mp3 code
0:52 <       tibbs> | Anything with mp3 support excised.
0:52 <        scop> | wine, xmms, ...
0:52 <    thomasvs> | we should not package anything with mp3 code period
0:52 <        scop> | thomasvs, and that's why we're shipping modified tarballs
0:52 <         jwb> | why are the tarballs modified?
0:52 <      jeremy> | dgilmore: that has problems when upstream servers are down or rearrange their layout or ...
0:53 <      jeremy> | dgilmore: it's unfortunately not super practical
0:53 <         thl> | people can also upload other stuff to the lookaside cache
0:53 <         thl> | and probably no one would notice that
0:53 < abadger1999> | jwb: To remove the mp3 code from the tarball so people can't get patented code by downloading the SRPM.
0:53 <         thl> | (in case it contains a patch which does something bad)
0:53 <       tibbs> | We could, however, periodically check to see that the lookaside and upstream match.  Would that be useful at all?
0:53 <         jwb> | abadger1999, ah yes ok
0:53 <    thomasvs> | scop: what I meant is, we should tell upstream to split, and not package them
0:54 <    dgilmore> | jeremy: I know    if it was pulled from spec  and maintainer  made sure the path was correct,  it would limit the chance of error.  it would only need to be pulled once  per version
0:54 <     bpepple> | Yeah, but then we have packages like gstreamer08-plugins.
0:54 <         thl> | jeremy, would a check of md5sum's agains upstream work while the package is uploaded?
0:54 <        scop> | thomasvs, sure, but I don't think waiting for that should be a blocker
0:55 <      jeremy> | thl: I'm not sure how implement-able that really is
0:55              * | jeremy has to go to his next meeting
0:55 <         thl> | jeremy, yeah, you're probably right with that
0:55 <         thl> | in any case, I think we discussed enough on this for today
0:55 <         thl> | I'll add this topic to the schedule
0:56 <         thl> | we need to find a solutions for these problems in the longer term
0:56 <         thl> | or does somebody disagree with that statement?
0:56              * | thl will move on soon
0:56            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo Meeting in progress -- Weekly sponsorship nomination
0:57 <         thl> | okay, _wart_ (Michael Thomas) was nominated
0:57 <         thl> | +1 from me
0:57 <         jwb> | mdomsch
0:57 <         jwb> | if he hasn't been taken care of already
0:57 <        scop> | wart++
0:57 <         jwb> | wart++
0:58 <         thl> | wart also got some +1 on FESCo list
0:58 <      warren> | wart++
0:58 <         thl> | wart accepted
0:58 <       tibbs> | mdomsch is not a sponsor, BTW.
0:58 <         thl> | jwb, I'll forward the nomintaion of mdomsch to the list
0:58 <         jwb> | thl, thank you
0:58 <         thl> | jwb, we'll talk about that next week
0:59 <         jwb> | sure
0:59 <         thl> | any other nominations?
0:59            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo Meeting in progress -- Free discussion
0:59 < abadger1999> | Question about the elections:  I'm working with spot on the software and we have different ideas of the kind of voting we'd like to see.
1:00 <         thl> | yeah, some of you have notices: I skiped some topics from the schedule
1:00 <         thl> | but it seems some important people for those discussions are not around
1:00 < abadger1999> | Spot favours bloc voting  (every voter gets to vote for $openSeats candidates.  Candidates with the most votes win.)
1:00 <         thl> | abadger1999, shot
1:00 <         jwb> | abadger1999, it's not just spot.  that's what FESCo decided to go with
1:01 < abadger1999> | Okay -- Just wanted to find out it was definitive.
1:01 <      lutter> | I have a question about the packaging guidelines for ruby
1:01 < abadger1999> | Thanks
1:01 <         thl> | lutter, that's normaly spot's topic -- he's not around
1:01 <         thl> | lutter, but shot
1:01 <         jwb> | abadger1999, i've been meaning to jump in there on the email thread but time is escaping me.  sorry
1:02 <       tibbs> | lutter: I'm interested as well.
1:02 <      lutter> | thl: just wanted to know what I should do to get them blessed as official .. seems like I need to talk to spot
1:02 <      lutter> | tibbs: a draft is at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Ruby
1:02 <         thl> | lutter, they are not blessed yet
1:02 <         thl> | core added ruby(abi) to devel some time ago
1:02 <      lutter> | thl: I know .. I wrote the draft
1:02 <         thl> | and I saw that it was added to the FC-5 spec, too
1:03 < abadger1999> | jwb: No problem -- am I missing an email list that the voting technique was announced/discussed on?
1:03 <         thl> | lutter, but I don#t think a update was pushed
1:03 <         thl> | lutter, spot wanted to look at this
1:03 <         jwb> | abadger1999, no.  it was talked about 2 FESCo meetings i think.  i don't think it's 100% closed for discussion
1:03 <      lutter> | thl: already ? ok .. akira said he wanted to wait with fc5 for some rawhide fallout .. but if he's done that, the better
1:04 <         jwb> | abadger1999, s/2 FESCo meetings/2 FESCo meetings ago
1:04 <      lutter> | thl: ok, I'll take it up with spot
1:04 <         thl> | lutter, thx
1:04 <         thl> | k, anything else?
1:04 <       tibbs> | Can I (or someone) review ruby-sqllite3 without the guidelines being blessed?
1:05 <         thl> | tibbs, please wait for spot
1:05 <         thl> | tibbs, but the general direction of tha proposal is okay iirc and afiacs
1:06 <       tibbs> | Will do.
1:06 <         thl> | k, anything else?
1:06 <       tibbs> | Does the same go for the current PHP buidelines?
1:06 < abadger1999> | jwb: Thanks -- I guess I missed the meeting at the beginning of May.
1:06 <       tibbs> | Lots of PHP packages sitting around in the queue.
1:07 <         thl> | tibbs, didn't we discuss this last meeting?
1:07 <         thl> | tibbs, was that /var/www vs foo ?
1:08 <       tibbs> | I'd have to check; sorry.  Don't let me hold things up.
1:08 <         thl> | tibbs, I simply can't remember if we reached a final decision; sorry
1:09 <         thl> | tibbs, ping spot
1:09 <         thl> | tibbs, he'll know
1:09 <         thl> | k, anything else?
1:09 <       tibbs> | The guidelines are still drafts, but I'm afraid that we're not making enough progress on reviews.
1:09 <       tibbs> | I'll ping spot when he's around.
1:10              * | thl will close the meeting in 60
1:11              * | thl will close the meeting in 20
1:11              * | thl will close the meeting in 10
1:11 <         thl> |  -- Mark Meeting End --