(wow! Every week it gets better. There was some confusion in the last paragraph. Hope my changes are accurate and acceptable.) |
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Contributing Writer: [[NicuBuculei|Nicu Buculei]] | Contributing Writer: [[NicuBuculei|Nicu Buculei]] | ||
=== | === No Echo forFedora 10 CD/DVD === | ||
[[ | [[MartinSourada|Martin Sourada]] asked[1] in both @fedora-art and @fedora-desktop about a decision about the use of the Echo icon theme, which "is | ||
the default icon theme in F10 since Beta (for testing purposes and exposition to wider audience)" in the upcoming Fedora 10 "What I'd like | |||
to ask you now is the preferred way to decide upon it. Should we hold a irc meeting, do a mail vote, set up a vote in the fedora voting system, | |||
other way?" | |||
[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-October/ | [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-October/msg00108.html | ||
[2] | In a harsh reply[2], [[DavidZeuthen|David Zeuthen]], from the Red Hat Desktop Team, attacked the icon set "the fact that the Fedora leadership allows this art charade to go on and on and on for eons is complete and utter FAIL" and expressed his strong opposition to a vote "can we please get away from this voting business? It's a disease. | ||
Consider what happened if we started voting on what patches should go in tarballs? Or what the dialogs in your desktop looked like? Or what | |||
options to use by default. Or what IO scheduler to use in the kernel. | |||
IMNSHO, voting is making Fedora turn into something mediocre that I, for one, really don't want to work on, much less rant about. Heck, I'd be | |||
running Debian if I wanted something like this" and his opposition of having a personalized default icon theme in Fedora at all "It's definitely not about stupid zero-sum games with misunderstood 'value adds' that may have questionable value in the first place." | |||
[ | [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00072.html | ||
[ | Maritn pointed out[3] that Echo is basically an upstream project "Technically the development of Echo Icon Theme is an Upstream job, | ||
though done by fedora artists and aiming to be default on Fedora and I'd say we are now as open with our development as gnome's default or kde's | |||
default icon themes are" and explained his original question as not a simple call to vote "voting is the last option when there is no better way on | |||
deciding things". He also tried to not vilify voting "there's nothing wrong with voting system, if used with care. Fedora Art | |||
isn't about competition but about collaboration. We'd like Fedora to have distinctive look from other distros and we seem to have enough | |||
people to do so, for some people it indeed feels like competition and motivates them to work harder - and that's a good thing - however when | |||
you accept is as a competition, you're disappointed when you are not the winner - and it's easier to accept 'defeat' when it's decided by | |||
community that by one (wo)man." | |||
[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00073.html | |||
[ | [[JesseKeating|Jesse Keating]] returned to the question about the purpose of an original icon set "why is looking different, at the icon level, a good thing? Does it not just confuse the greater community?". Martin pointed[5] that the situation is not more confusing that the current situation "Well, gnome and kde already look different on that level. Does that confuse greater community?" and he continued arguing for a personalized theme "Does it bring anything to Fedora user? Different, more lively, more 3D-like art. Perhaps wider coverage of Fedora specific stuff (but that does not need to be limited to Echo). Is that a good thing? Seriously, who is to decide that? Definitely not me. I believe Art and Desktop Teams (and various other desktop SIGs when Echo gets selected for other DE's than gnome) together have the right to do so." | ||
[ | [4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00078.html | ||
[ | [5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00082.html | ||
[[BillNottingham|Bill Nottingham]] calmed the spirits[6] "there's no need to toss around 'grow up' and 'stupid'; we're all adults | |||
(or close enough) here, and that's unlikely to bring people around to your point of view" and asked two crucial questions "So, why are we, as a project, interested in working on a large set of never-to-be-upstreamed changes when there is an existing upstream?" and "Why is Nodoka 'ok', and Echo not, in people's opinion?" | |||
[ | [6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00097.html | ||
[[WillWoods|Will Woods]] offered[7] two quick replies "First, Nodoka doesn't drastically change UI elements from their upstream defaults, or from other OSes" and "Echo, on the other hand, significantly changes the look of basic UI elements". He also added a good deal of criticism for the Echo icon set, using input from "his user-interface-designer wife to help work on Echo", pointing to a significant number of flaws. | |||
[7] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00100.html | |||
Revision as of 12:19, 17 October 2008
Artwork
In this section, we cover the Fedora Artwork Project.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork
Contributing Writer: Nicu Buculei
No Echo forFedora 10 CD/DVD
Martin Sourada asked[1] in both @fedora-art and @fedora-desktop about a decision about the use of the Echo icon theme, which "is the default icon theme in F10 since Beta (for testing purposes and exposition to wider audience)" in the upcoming Fedora 10 "What I'd like to ask you now is the preferred way to decide upon it. Should we hold a irc meeting, do a mail vote, set up a vote in the fedora voting system, other way?"
[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-October/msg00108.html
In a harsh reply[2], David Zeuthen, from the Red Hat Desktop Team, attacked the icon set "the fact that the Fedora leadership allows this art charade to go on and on and on for eons is complete and utter FAIL" and expressed his strong opposition to a vote "can we please get away from this voting business? It's a disease.
Consider what happened if we started voting on what patches should go in tarballs? Or what the dialogs in your desktop looked like? Or what options to use by default. Or what IO scheduler to use in the kernel.
IMNSHO, voting is making Fedora turn into something mediocre that I, for one, really don't want to work on, much less rant about. Heck, I'd be running Debian if I wanted something like this" and his opposition of having a personalized default icon theme in Fedora at all "It's definitely not about stupid zero-sum games with misunderstood 'value adds' that may have questionable value in the first place."
[2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00072.html
Maritn pointed out[3] that Echo is basically an upstream project "Technically the development of Echo Icon Theme is an Upstream job, though done by fedora artists and aiming to be default on Fedora and I'd say we are now as open with our development as gnome's default or kde's default icon themes are" and explained his original question as not a simple call to vote "voting is the last option when there is no better way on deciding things". He also tried to not vilify voting "there's nothing wrong with voting system, if used with care. Fedora Art isn't about competition but about collaboration. We'd like Fedora to have distinctive look from other distros and we seem to have enough people to do so, for some people it indeed feels like competition and motivates them to work harder - and that's a good thing - however when you accept is as a competition, you're disappointed when you are not the winner - and it's easier to accept 'defeat' when it's decided by community that by one (wo)man."
[3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00073.html
Jesse Keating returned to the question about the purpose of an original icon set "why is looking different, at the icon level, a good thing? Does it not just confuse the greater community?". Martin pointed[5] that the situation is not more confusing that the current situation "Well, gnome and kde already look different on that level. Does that confuse greater community?" and he continued arguing for a personalized theme "Does it bring anything to Fedora user? Different, more lively, more 3D-like art. Perhaps wider coverage of Fedora specific stuff (but that does not need to be limited to Echo). Is that a good thing? Seriously, who is to decide that? Definitely not me. I believe Art and Desktop Teams (and various other desktop SIGs when Echo gets selected for other DE's than gnome) together have the right to do so."
[4] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00078.html
[5] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00082.html
Bill Nottingham calmed the spirits[6] "there's no need to toss around 'grow up' and 'stupid'; we're all adults (or close enough) here, and that's unlikely to bring people around to your point of view" and asked two crucial questions "So, why are we, as a project, interested in working on a large set of never-to-be-upstreamed changes when there is an existing upstream?" and "Why is Nodoka 'ok', and Echo not, in people's opinion?"
[6] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00097.html
Will Woods offered[7] two quick replies "First, Nodoka doesn't drastically change UI elements from their upstream defaults, or from other OSes" and "Echo, on the other hand, significantly changes the look of basic UI elements". He also added a good deal of criticism for the Echo icon set, using input from "his user-interface-designer wife to help work on Echo", pointing to a significant number of flaws.
[7] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-October/msg00100.html