From Fedora Project Wiki

Revision as of 20:46, 3 February 2009 by Kwade (talk | contribs) (public log)
(diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

* Topic for #fedora-board-public is: Next public Fedora Project Board meeting: 2009-02-03 UTC 1900
* Topic for #fedora-board-public set by stickster at Wed Jan 7 18:48:51 2009
quaid_moderator ok, starting in just a minute
* EvilBob (n=EvilBob@fedora/bobjensen) has joined #Fedora-Board-Public
* ke4qqq (n=ke4qqq@fedora/ke4qqq) has joined #fedora-board-public
stickster For anyone not familiar with the format, quaid_moderator will listen in here, and relay questions to the #fedora-board-meeting channel.
* inode0 is disoriented by this new moderator
stickster Board members are assembled in that channel, and you can join it to watch the discussion.
quaid_moderator good day everyone
viking_ice Evening
kc8hfi whats the agenda?
stickster We are agenda-free today, 100% Q & A.
-ChanServ- You have been voiced on #fedora-board-meeting by mdomsch
quaid_moderator kc8hfi: right, this is driven by questions
viking_ice How to compete with google and becoming world dominators
* JKnife ( has joined #fedora-board-public
quaid_moderator viking_ice: that will segue nicely in to "What is Fedora's purpose?"
* quaid_moderator has a feeling that might come up today
inode0 is cowsay code or content?
* ke4qqq raises the question "What is Fedora's purpose?' and hands it to quaid_moderator
herlo lol
JKnife isn't it to promote the use of opensource software and opwn standards while freeing computers of horrid file formats?
quaid_moderator ke4qqq: got it
herlo it was bound to be asked :)
quaid_moderator thx, ke4qqq, I wanted to ask and comment but I'm supposed to moderate!
ke4qqq figured I might as well get it out of the way
quaid_moderator all I know is I didn't envy that question being my responsibility to answer when on the Board :)
ke4qqq though it's likely to be a long others may want to go first
nirik I'll bring up the question I always do: "What is the news on the 'incident' last year, and when can we hear more? I was hoping there was going to be some news, but I haven't seen anything"
stickster quaid_moderator: spevack has doubled up before, it's not unprecedented. :-)
ke4qqq true....and you have the multiple personalities thing already going - two diff. nicks
quaid_moderator stickster: heh, that would be my caveat -- I didn't think it was the Board's to answer then, and I don't now :D
quaid_moderator ke4qqq: this is the same personality
quaid_moderator you all should be happy diauq isn't here moderating
* spoleeba lurks
* edneymatias ( has joined #fedora-board-public
* quaid_moderator passes spoleeba walking slowly from his emeritus parking spot
thomasj nirik +1
JKnife ohh i have a question, why did yall use UTC for the meeting time instead of RedHats main office local time? (like y'all do with releases?)
quaid_moderator JKnife: I'll queue that, because the "official Fedora time" question is still open
* SMParrish_ ( has joined #fedora-board-public
quaid_moderator but I do think folks are good about using UTC, so you might get a -1 troll :D
JKnife lol
edneymatias :)
* zodbot (n=supybot@fedora/bot/zodbot) has joined #fedora-board-public
* v0idang3l (n=angel@ has joined #fedora-board-public
* viking_ice raises the question "when is Fedora going to get it self a live pony and give everyone a free ride on that pony when a pony ride is needed/wanted"
viking_ice hehe
JMakey Technically, it is generally less complicated to convert between one's local time and UTC than between one's local time and another's. Less knowledge is needed.
quaid_moderator viking_ice: btw, do you want me to ask about world domination?
kc8hfi and competing with google
* MostafaDaneshvar (n=MostafaD@unaffiliated/mostafadaneshvar) has joined #fedora-board-public
JKnife quaid_moderator: Ok, serious question, Is RedHat ever going to do main stream ads for Fedora(like on TV or Radio)?
viking_ice quaid_moderator: nope..
quaid_moderator JKnife: got it
ke4qqq JKnife: do they even do mainstream ads for RH?
quaid_moderator never have, fwiw
quaid_moderator but Fedora is different, eh?
JKnife ke4qqq: I thnk it would be something cool todo
* quaid_moderator wants a series of "Because we do it the Fedora Way," that call back to Sean Connery in The Untouchables
EvilBob I have a question, I recently heard about the Red Hat Summit in Chicago. It is my understanding that there will not be a FUDcon tied to this event that is in the middle of the coasts allowing contributors from the plains and midwest more of a chance to get to a FUDcon. Why was this decision made.
ke4qqq I'd love to see truth happens on tv, but the unwashed masses wouldn't get it.
JKnife heh
inode0 EvilBob: bad scheduling in the cycle, not the best result combining them in boston, etc.
quaid_moderator good question EvilBob, got it
JKnife They could start minor ads on local tvs as a trial run and see how it does then move to a bigger scale
* quaid_moderator thinks inode0 has the gist, but wants to see Paul answer formally
JKnife o/ EvilBob
inode0 will encourage us to do FADs instead :)
EvilBob inode0: thanks but I want to hear the board as part of the computer and software industry snub the midwest themselves
quaid_moderator FAD @ Summit is a great idea, perhaps
* SMParrish has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
ke4qqq quaid_moderator: I'll bite - lets hear the purpose/goal for both the community and distribution
* viking_ice raises hands and asks a serious question: Why don't we replace the offical GA release with an updated one from Fedora Unity and archive the GA release when they have released an updated GA release ?
EvilBob inode0: NOTHING happens in with in an 8hour drive from here
inode0 quaid_moderator: did you get my question, which may have sounded frivolous but was serious
spoleeba viking_ice, isnt that more of a release engineering question
spoleeba viking_ice, the board's mandate isn't to micromanage the details of releases
* glezos (n=mits@fedora/glezos) has joined #fedora-board-public
inode0 EvilBob: you want to organize FUDcon in the twin cities?
EvilBob inode0: i want ANYTHING to happen where I can drive to it
* MostafaDaneshvar (n=MostafaD@unaffiliated/mostafadaneshvar) has left #fedora-board-public
viking_ice spoleeba: how so ? this affect all fedora's end users but ok
inode0 We've really been encouraged ... but paying union rates to colocate with something like the Summit is wildly expensive
spoleeba viking_ice, the board does not micromanage all decisions
spoleeba viking_ice, this is a bottom up organization
quaid_moderator inode0: still looking, can you repost
EvilBob inode0: the lack of events in this area is what made being an Ambassador a waste of time for me.
inode0 quaid_moderator: is cowsay code or content?
spoleeba viking_ice, fesco/releng set time tables for release milestones.. a respin would be yet another mileston in the release process
quaid_moderator inode0: can you enlighten me what that is just in case I have to explain?
* John5342 (n=john5342@fedora/John5342) has joined #fedora-board-public
inode0 quaid_moderator: the question really is how can I look at a package and classify it as code or content
viking_ice spoleeba: Has fedora unity been asked if they could not manage that/those milestone(s) ?
spoleeba the purpose discussion is never going to go away
inode0 cowsay is a perl script and a library of cows
JKnife so wait.. Fedora has mixed unknown goals? shouldn't the goals be one f the first things done when starting a project to help build the road map?
spoleeba Fedora as a project pushes the boundary of purpose because its pushing tech
inode0 I found the OVM business a little unsettling
spoleeba we arent going to be able to build a 12 foot fence around what Fedora is...all we can do is put little sawhorses around and make a temporary fence
spoleeba inode0, shrug
spoleeba inode0, its absolutely no different than what has come before with java
spoleeba inode0, no different
kc8hfi what are the 4 F's that marketing have been promoting?
spoleeba inode0, there was a crap load of open java code out there that we did not ship until we had an open java to intepret it
inode0 following precedents doesn't make things right - that argument means little to me
spoleeba inode0, its absolutely right
spoleeba inode0, same arguments then as now
inode0 it may be right, following a precedent doesn't make it right
spoleeba inode0, the argumetns have not changed
mmcgrath ctyler: Its tricky to say "best" because its subjective. Saying "newest" or "most stable" is more objective.
mmcgrath both could be best, but they tend to conflict with eachother.
spoleeba inode0, recycling the arguments..again...doesnt change history
inode0 spoleeba: it might help if code in this context were better defined (say interpreted code is content without an interpreter if that is the position of Fedora)
inode0 is that the position?
spoleeba inode0, you arent going to get a clean definition of code/content
ctyler mmcgrath: agreed
spoleeba inode0, C code is intepreted code
EvilBob As a FEdora user and Contributor I would hate to see a "LTS" branch take away from our already strained manpower resources
spoleeba inode0, a compiler has to...interpret it
spoleeba EvilBob, yes... anything like that would require new resources
inode0 then saying cowsay or ovm is content is arbitrary and that is just going to cause hard feelings
inode0 if you can't define it, don't use it as a point to discriminate
spoleeba EvilBob, but..if for example.. I started a company whose busines it was to create a Fedora LTS...and put the resources in place...
spoleeba inode0, im not descrimating
spoleeba inode0, its the same as java
spoleeba inode0, there is precedent.. on a case by case basis
spoleeba inode0, feel free to cite an opposing precedent
inode0 yes, you are making a discrimination by classifying a package as content rather than as code and applying different rules to it
spoleeba inode0, you are attempting to desciminate by making OVM a special case
spoleeba inode0, i am not saying its content
inode0 i haven't even stated a position on ovm
spoleeba inode0, i consistently stated that I view ovm as code
inode0 ok, if ovm is code that it should be accepted by the guidelines, right?
spoleeba inode0, no
spoleeba inode0, for the same reasons that java was not..before we had a java interpreter
* smooge ( has joined #fedora-board-public
inode0 fesco rejected it because they said it wasn't code but rather it was content and had to meet an extra burden
spoleeba inode0, i am not fesco
EvilBob inode0: forgive me, the OVM issue is the Chitlesh item, is that correct?
spoleeba EvilBob, FEL..yes
EvilBob K
* viking_ice raises hands and asks another one ( not sure if that's a micro one as well ) Now with the ability to create a "live" cd should'nt Fedora stop officially site with a specific DE ( Now it's Gnome ) and allow all DE to compete on a fair ground and all reference to "Desktop" would strictly be a generic one ( containing a just a list of all the DE's that Fedora offers ) ?
inode0 this "enhances the OS user experience" requirement is for content, not code
quaid_moderator viking_ice: got it
* edneymatias has quit (Client Quit)
spoleeba viking_ice, are you saying the Desktop Spin should be called the Gnome Desktop Spin?
viking_ice This basically comes down to Anaconda not auto select for an End user a specific DE but rather ask the end user to choose one of the DE's available if he has not done so already on the DVD ISO
EvilBob quaid_moderator: add to my FUDcon query, WHat funding is available if the community got something arranged in the area.
* skvidal (n=nnnnnnnn@fedora/skvidal) has joined #fedora-board-public
nirik skvidal: it would be: "we plan to release details in a press conference at 2009-xx-xx and will take questions then"
nirik but I understand not having that. I think it's important to ask.
quaid_moderator EvilBob: got it
* quaid_moderator notes that is a question probably for the NA Ambassador group, ke4qqq might have a clue what Sep. looks like for budget
ke4qqq EvilBob thus far we have paid for FADs out of FAMNA's budget
inode0 we don't really fund FUDcons if that is what the question it
ke4qqq propose one, tell us how much you need - we'll try and get it for you provided CommArch give us the money
ke4qqq no but we are funding FAD @ SCALE and LFNW
nirik skvidal: I think I would like to hear "it was a failure of: people or packages or process" and I would love to hear that the people or packages or process were fixed both for fedora and anyone using the fedora distro.
quaid_moderator EvilBob: it could be a shadow conference, but that would require people to be at the Summit
* inode0 thought EvilBob was still talking about FUDcons
quaid_moderator EvilBob: the venue is going to be the hardest part, I reckon
EvilBob ke4qqq: see that is the God Damned problem
EvilBob ke4qqq: there are NO events to piggy back on any where near here
ke4qqq you don't need to - someone picked those - we are talking about one at clemson that is attached to nothing
viking_ice spoleeba: Well yes in Gnome case it would be Gnome Desktop Spin and so for "$DENAME Desktop Spin" and the Desktop wiki page would be a generic desktop page ( just contain list of all the DE that are available in Fedora and sub pages of those DE would be there as in Desktop/Gnome Desktop/XFCE etc.. )
ke4qqq the issue is - who can you get to come, what can you get accomplished, and how much will it cost.
EvilBob ke4qqq: and I am not really interested in a FAD as I understand what a FAD is
quaid_moderator EvilBob: talk with lcafiero about Lindependence
spoleeba EvilBob, where is here?
* nirik thanks the board and skvidal.
quaid_moderator that is good for tapping the wider distro community
EvilBob you could hold a FAD in my townhouse complex and I would not bother to go
* mmcgrath admits he has been working on that.
inode0 EvilBob: FAD may mean something different now than what you are thinking, maybe not
spoleeba EvilBob, I'm going to be in Ind for a NSF workshop at the end of March... a workshop on sustainable cyber infrastructure.. its a perfect tie in for a Fedora infrastructure FAD
EvilBob ke4qqq: I have nothing to do with Ambassadors, ambassador involvement for me in the past has been a major waste of time
quaid_moderator Fedora Activity Day == FAD
* lmacken (n=lmacken@nat/redhat/x-b6d73737f76f7dac) has joined #fedora-board-public
quaid_moderator it _used_ to be Ambassador Day
ke4qqq it's not necessary related to Ambassador - the one at scale is packaging and docs iirc.
ke4qqq no ambassador involvment except the ambassadors present are involved in other aspects and we provided some funding
viking_ice spoleeba: This allows for the current ones and new ones that might emerge later to compete against each other on a fair ground as in they them self are responsible to market them self the best DE to use to the end user then the end user choose himself what to use ( based on the live cd experience he got )
EvilBob quaid_moderator: thank you for the clarification, still does not make sense to me that one has to ask the FASCo for funding in that case
quaid_moderator EvilBob: FAMSCo handles the purse strings for Community Architecture
quaid_moderator EvilBob: also, if you haven't been paying attention, we have a ... uniquely American NA Ambassador regional crew
poelcat quaid_moderator: Q: What key strategic initiatives is the board pursuing for 2009?
* EvilBob just shakes his head
quaid_moderator inode0, ke4qqq, herlo, lcafiero ... darn, who am I forgetting?
quaid_moderator bpowell ...
quaid_moderator EvilBob: wtf do you want to ask then?
EvilBob Nothing
EvilBob forget I asked anythign
quaid_moderator roger
viking_ice quaid_moderator: Did you pick up my question regarding the "Official Desktop" ( as in there would be none )
quaid_moderator viking_ice: yes, got it
quaid_moderator that's the last question in my queue, btw
JKnife I think just think a tv ad of college students saying stuff like "I use fedora because I support sharing of infromation" then at the end show a fedora logo
ke4qqq poelcat's question isn't in your queue quaid_moderator?
ke4qqq JKnife: produce one - tv stations have to air public service announcements for free.... :)
spoleeba quaid_moderator, speaking of contributors...... here's my question... have we identified target groups to seek out as contributors? Or are we content with a walkin only approach to recruitment?
viking_ice Well there seem to be lack in of future vision as in as I see it Fedora needs focuse more on the end user ( instead of focusing mainly on contributes ) because the more Fedora is exposed and use the more likely will more maintainers ( or a person that grows up to be a maintainer ) want to join
quaid_moderator ke4qqq: thx, looking ...
quaid_moderator poelcat: got it
quaid_moderator Sparks_Work: got it
quaid_moderator sorry , that was for spoleeba
EvilBob thanks F13
JKnife ke4qqq: uhmm... I could drive upto UNC if I had a video camera :P
ke4qqq JKnife: you don't have to do all the work, just lead the effort - others will get involved - though I think it might be more interesting to tap actual contributors rather than just random students.
EvilBob Would FAD attendees at the Summit have to pay the couple months wages to be there?
herlo EvilBob: no, we didn't have to pay to be at FUDCon
JKnife ke4qqq: ohh i have a idea.. have people submit videos to say youtube, we download them and make the video :)
herlo EvilBob: I don't know if that goes for the actual RH SUmmit events
quaid_moderator herlo: Fedora track was free to FUDCon attendees, but ... whatever :)
ke4qqq JKnife: you'd need higher quality, but you should toss the idea up on the f-marketing list
quaid_moderator herlo: the key is, it was physically possible to be in the same building, but Fedora paid through the nose for the space aiui
herlo quaid_moderator: yeah, that was kind of my point. I didn't know for sure on that part though because I didn't get to go to the RH Summit :(
* quaid_moderator was a like a one-armed wallpaper hanger at that event
EvilBob herlo: so it was a non-answer, thanks for sharing however
herlo quaid_moderator: yeah, RH Summit seems like a good spot for the FAD format
herlo EvilBob: anytime
* herlo did get the sarcasm :)
JKnife ke4qqq: youtube now has high quality videos... normal youtube watch about 10secs then click on "watch in high quality" on the bottom right of the video
quaid_moderator herlo: I'm going to submit a few talk ideas, see if I can get to go anyway, so I'll pitch in on a FAD
herlo :) quaid_moderator good call
EvilBob quaid_moderator: I have a few ideas also
quaid_moderator EvilBob: sweet
* inode0 thinks separate FADs would be better
quaid_moderator EvilBob: if you want to collaborate or just get a readover from someone, ping me
inode0 why tie them up in a circus?
quaid_moderator I worked on the committee last year so have seen a few proposals now
herlo inode0: we should try them both ways and see which works best and gets the most contributors to a FAD
EvilBob quaid_moderator: that was one thing that was super in 2007 we did not have anything structured for Fedora stuff but we got a lot of things done being able to meet and work out things,
herlo +1 glezos, that is pretty much what we're shooting for at the SCaLE FAD :)
EvilBob quaid_moderator: that is where we laid out the May/Oct release target
quaid_moderator glezos: yeah, I proposed that to mmcgrath for Infra, since that would work there ... I am going to be trying something like that at the SCaLE FAD
glezos herlo: it's successful, productive and VERY cost effective. Lots of groups of people together. Minimize travel and lodging costs.
herlo glezos: yes, and they successfully do it at PyCon and other conferences all the time
* viking_ice answers skvidal: Just alone the whole i586 should be enough for justifying the their being or an updated GA existance
viking_ice the whole i586 incident
EvilBob mdomsch: and we will keep doing it until the Board tells us we can't, and in that case we will become something else
quaid_moderator EvilBob: I gave a magazine a Unity spin, too; darn handy
herlo stickster: (in f-board), we did hand out Unity discs, but I'd like them to become more official and thus want to press them if it can be blessed by the board.
* quaid_moderator thinks with this question we'll never get to the others, but still has them in queue
ke4qqq herlo: press?
herlo ke4qqq: yes
* viking_ice answers bandwith question is it fair to enduser to download first the official dvd iso then having to update it with x GB instead of just download an updated dvd ISO
herlo ke4qqq: as opposed to burn and distribute
ke4qqq wow
quaid_moderator I have one from viking_ice, poelcat, and spoleeba
herlo ke4qqq: it would be something we could do with the 2nd quarter funds
herlo ke4qqq: let me clarify that
herlo 2nd quarter after a release
ke4qqq so if they produce a single respin we only have three months to hand it out
EvilBob herlo: remember the Re-Spins of Fedora that Unity produces are released under the 3b section of the GPLv2 also so you as an ambassador have no worries about needing to have source available
inode0 you do real cowsay contents into perl
herlo EvilBob: k
inode0 read
ke4qqq EvilBob: Board says otherwise
EvilBob ke4qqq: what does the board have to say about what I do?
EvilBob ke4qqq: NOTHING
herlo ahh, I should ping FESCO it seems if we ant to go that direction
ke4qqq EvilBob: board set policy that Ambassadors must have source on hand and able to burn if handing out discs at an event
spoleeba ke4qqq, Unity is free to rely on that clause for the stuff they distribute
inode0 nice
EvilBob ke4qqq: you need to read the GPL
herlo quaid_moderator: sounds like you should get those guys back on track :) darn that inode0
* lmacken (n=lmacken@nat/redhat/x-b6d73737f76f7dac) has left #fedora-board-public
spoleeba ke4qqq, i do not think the Board decision was about Unity was about Fedora project media
ke4qqq right
ke4qqq but we are talking about burning unity media and handing it out at a fedora booth
EvilBob ke4qqq: the Re-Spins that Unity Produces are beyond the control of the board
ke4qqq I don't dispute that, but the behavior of Ambassadors representing fedora at a fedora sponsored both isn't
EvilBob ke4qqq: and Unity has the guts to keep sources around for 3 years
spoleeba ke4qqq, the Ambassadors can choice to apply the same policy to Unity respins
ke4qqq s/both/booth
EvilBob ke4qqq: and here goes more politics with the Ambassadors that their FiASCo has to decide for them
ke4qqq that came down from the Fedora Board, not famsco
spoleeba ke4qqq, again i do not belive the Board said anything about Unity respins
JKnife quaid_moderator: Why Linux for Fedora and not, lets say *BSD or minix3?
ke4qqq they didn't specify anything - they said source for the media we hand out
inode0 the board just said things worked the other way!
* h\h ( has joined #fedora-board-public
spoleeba ke4qqq, the issue is the fact that Fedora as a project makes no garuntee or even implies that source will be available long enough for that clause to be effective
EvilBob ke4qqq: again, please read the GPL
herlo EvilBob: the GPL doesn't matter in a case where we go further than it states
ke4qqq EvilBob: I am not sating that it violates the gpl
spoleeba ke4qqq, if you trust Unity says they will keep the sources around..and you trust them to keep the sources around...then the Unity spins are a completely different situation
EvilBob ke4qqq: Fedora Unity releases Re-Spins that the Board has NO control over
ke4qqq I am not saying that the board has any control over unity or would want to.
EvilBob ke4qqq: the only control they have is our use of the fedora-release package
spoleeba ke4qqq, the reasoning for the Board to protect amabassadors from a situation where they are liable...because we do not keep the sources around long enough for the clause to be invoked
spoleeba ke4qqq, you can choose to apply the same policy to Unity spins...but dont suggest that the Board made any ruling at all about them
EvilBob ke4qqq: I am telling you that the Unity Project can release the Re-Spins under a different clause of the GPL than Fedora Project may
ke4qqq I make no such pretense
inode0 EvilBob: as just a guy who occasionally distributes media to others I feel an obligation to make source media available in the same manner if desired - that isn't anything unusual
ke4qqq spoleeba: I am talking about if Fedora presses media, and has Ambassadors handing it out at events sponsored by Fedora - the policy as it sits now is that media we distribute must have source available to burn or already burned - not that it's a requirement of the GPL, but rather a requirement put upon ourselves. not an obligation to Unity or anything else.
spoleeba ke4qqq, Fedora media != Unity media
ke4qqq we were just talking about asking fesco to bless unity release as fedora release
spoleeba ke4qqq, you are free to choose to require the same policy...but you implied it was Board guidance that people use that policy for all media..which is not the case
inode0 I think everyone understands that spoleeba
ke4qqq not 20 minutes ago
ke4qqq spoleeba: I'll dig it up, but iirc, it stated any media we distributed
EvilBob ke4qqq: I do not believe that Unity has asked or has interest in such a relationship, as one of the founders I know I do not.
inode0 when thinking about doing this in the freemedia program we planned to include requests for unity source
viking_ice Is the Desktop SIG a Gnome Desktop SIG or is that SIG made up of members from other *DE SIG's
ke4qqq it's been discussed on the mailing lists, irc, and even here. herlo just brought up pressing the media
herlo yeah, I sure did :) and I was pointed at FESCO.
spoleeba ke4qqq, im pretty sure Unity media never came up in Board discussions over that policy
EvilBob ke4qqq: that however would be up to an individual if they want to get media bless that is created from the iso images that Unity creates
spoleeba ke4qqq, the word 'all' still can be contextualized to mean 'all Fedora spins'
poelcat quaid_moderator: to caillon: the fedora board is often compared to corporate boards at publicly traded companies so I was wondering what goals and objectives the fedora board is setting and how they plan to lead fedora forward
EvilBob ke4qqq: has nothing to do with Unity at this point
ke4qqq EvilBob: true
ke4qqq spoleeba: could be
spoleeba ke4qqq, im pretty sure i was in the board discussion
EvilBob ke4qqq: Unity is separate from the Fedora Project for several reasons that go well beyond this one issue
quaid_moderator poelcat: my side opinion is that being a "bottom up" organization, it's not really comparable to a public board for a public corp
spoleeba quaid_moderator, its comparable to a non-profit board
poelcat you can't have it both ways :)
quaid_moderator spoleeba: not sure if I agree, but that's just me
spoleeba quaid_moderator, have you ever been on the board for a local social services a soup kitchen.. or a community theature?
quaid_moderator it's not clear to me that Fedora's strategy is Board set or approved, nor if it should be.
quaid_moderator spoleeba: not personally, but I'm a NPO brat -- my mom has been working at NPOs for 30 years, been on the board of several, etc.
quaid_moderator spoleeba: I won't dispute that it acts like an NPO board at times, but I'm not sure that is the right way.
spoleeba quaid_moderator, you should probablyt have a sit down with her and talk about common problems witn non-profits when they hit the 5 year mark
spoleeba quaid_moderator, i think there is a crap load of parallels
quaid_moderator spoleeba: ok
spoleeba quaid_moderator, which means a crap load of solution-ineering
spoleeba quaid_moderator, that would apply to our little baby
quaid_moderator spoleeba: not saying they aren't comparable, but that I'm careful about thinking they are interchangeable
spoleeba quaid_moderator, and im saying..there are some common growth pains...and ways to deal with them..that we aren't even looking at
quaid_moderator spoleeba: do you have interest in forming up a SIG-of-sorts to work on that problem? generate a list of "top 10 shit we should be doing"?
inode0 Question: could the board collect some questions in advance of these meetings so more thought could be given to them before the board discusses them?
quaid_moderator heck, just a few wiki pages would be a good starting point
quaid_moderator inode0: got it
spoleeba quaid_moderator, after you talk to your mom..and if the light bulb goes on for you and she confirms what i just said..sure
inode0 or would they be interested in giving questions more thought before discussing them in public I guess?
quaid_moderator spoleeba: don't misunderstand me
quaid_moderator spoleeba: my thinking is grounded in reality; I've been a volunteer for 30 years, too
quaid_moderator spoleeba: it is that reality experience ... I'm asking, _should_ the Fedora Board be run and comparable to an NPO board?
quaid_moderator because I think maybe not, and maybe it is not comparable in important ways.
spoleeba quaid_moderator, id settle for one important way
viking_ice ups wrong channel.. :(
quaid_moderator spoleeba: so that is different than, "What can Fedora learn from the common experiences of volunteer-run organizations at this point in our history."
quaid_moderator spoleeba: funding is one way ... the definition of an NPO requires a whole slew of stuff to be a 501 C(3)
herlo as a follow up to the join-fedora page comment in public, there have been many comments in my daily work to improve that.
herlo but nobody has taken it on
quaid_moderator spoleeba: many NPO volunteers are doing it in their spare time and unrelated to $dayjob, the same cannot be said of FLOSS communities.
* Trollkarlen has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
herlo one thought would be to get the newly formed fedora-mentors-list off and running and improving the mentoring in each of these areas...
spoleeba quaid_moderator, how many of our contributors are spare timers?
spoleeba quaid_moderator, i dont think we know
quaid_moderator spoleeba: but we do know about NPOs
spoleeba quaid_moderator, but if you want to say thats a mismatch..youd have to be able to see we dont have enough spare timers
* v0idang3l has quit (Client Quit)
quaid_moderator spoleeba: I think the clear point is, the Board is surrounding a group of volunteers who have a much wider and varied source than an NPO, where work volunteers do can be intimately tied to their $dayjob
quaid_moderator even when corporations send people out to do community work
quaid_moderator it's just not ever for the business interest
quaid_moderator where I can assure you RHT seeds Fedora money specifically because it is good business. :)
* Sonar_Guy has quit (Client Quit)
* abadger1999 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
spoleeba quaid_moderator, am i talking about RHT seeded resources?
quaid_moderator spoleeba: no red herrings, of course RHT is just an example of a corporate community member.
quaid_moderator there are hundreds of similar examples in Fedora today.
quaid_moderator spoleeba: note that it only takes one difference between an NPO board/situation and the Fedora Board/situation for what I said to be true.
* John5342 (n=john5342@fedora/John5342) has left #fedora-board-public ("Look at me. I am gone!!")
quaid_moderator </meeting>
* stickster has changed the topic to: Next public Fedora Project Board meeting: 2009-03
* stickster has changed the topic to: Next public Fedora Project Board meeting: 2009-03-03 UTC 1900

Generated by 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!