Meeting:Board meeting 2008-05-06

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Contents

Fedora Project Board Meeting :: Tuesday 2008-05-06

Roll Call

Attendees: Everyone on #fedora-board-meeting

Discussion Summary

  • Board answers community questions on:
  • Fedora University Tour
  • Fedora 9 features
  • Marketing and PR
  • Fedora in higher education
  • Focus areas for next 6-12 months
  • The Board voted to open #fedora channel on IRC to no longer require registration of nicks. This is seen as a major hurdle for new people who don't know anything about IRC. ACTION ITEM: Dennis Gilmore to survey needs on IRC in terms of fostering better care for new users (i.e. social needs) and assessing technical needs.

IRC Transcript

  • Raw discussion is here
stickster Welcome all to the IRC public Board meeting for May 2008. 06 May 14:05
stickster The first meeting of each month is set aside for a public meeting so the community can ask Board members questions and get (mostly) realtime answers 06 May 14:05
stickster Soon, we hope to do this in a slightly higher-bandwidth fashion via audio and Asterisk. 06 May 14:06
stickster As I'm sure everyone will appreciate, our Infrastructure and Websites teams are busy working on making the Fedora 9 release superb. 06 May 14:06
stickster To ask questions, join the #fedora-board-public channel, and spevack will take questions and funnel them here. 06 May 14:07
stickster This channel is open to the public but only Board members have VOICE. 06 May 14:07
spevack ready for questions? 06 May 14:07
stickster The #fedora-board-public channel allows everyone to talk, pose questions, discuss, heckle, and so forth. 06 May 14:07
stickster Bring it on! 06 May 14:07
stickster  :-) 06 May 14:07
--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +o spevack 06 May 14:07
--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +o stickster 06 May 14:07
spevack from inode0: how was the university tour viewed in retrospect? didn't see much news about it lately. 06 May 14:08
spevack inode0: while the Board types, I'll direct you here for one piece of news from the Red Hat Press Blog -- http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/04/25/fedora-returns-from-the-university-tour/ 06 May 14:08
spevack and if the Board wants me to comment more on the UT, I will be happy to 06 May 14:08
stickster The Fedora University Tour was a very cool experiment our Community Architecture Team put together 06 May 14:09
--- caillon (n=caillon@75.147.7.113) changed topic: Fedora Project Board public IRC Meeting. Q&A session: Please direct questions to spevack in the #fedora-board-public channel. 06 May 14:09
mdomsch spevack, be our guest 06 May 14:09
stickster The purpose was to create more awareness of open source in computer science programs in schools around the nation 06 May 14:09
spevack sure... 06 May 14:09
spevack stickster: you go ahead for now 06 May 14:09
stickster  :-) 06 May 14:10
stickster as well as to seed interest in Fedora specifically as an open source community, and to cultivate interest in students who form some of the upcoming FOSS superstar pool 06 May 14:10
notting is there a way to pull some sort of stats as to new contributors gained during/as a result of the tour? 06 May 14:11
spevack The university tour was led by Jack Aboutboul. We visited about 15 different schools throughout the US, with a few goals in mind. As Paul says, one was to find out what *students* are doing with Fedora, and second was to see what faculty members think about the readyness of open source curriculums in colleges 06 May 14:11
stickster Jack Aboutboul went on a multi-city, multi-school journey and you can see some of his other posts at http://fedorauniversity.wordpress.com/ 06 May 14:11
spevack There are several leads that were particularly interesting that came out of this tour, and that we need to follow up on. 06 May 14:12
spevack In the next month or two, we'll be doing that. 06 May 14:12
stickster notting: Jack is working on doing just that, as mentioned in the Community Architecture meeting notes: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Meetings/2008-04-28 06 May 14:12
spevack In particular, there was a lot of interest at Carnegie Mellon, Syracuse, and Oregon State. 06 May 14:12
spevack stickster: there have been 2 follow up questions 06 May 14:13
spevack the first -- was it viewed as a success, and are future tours planned? 06 May 14:13
spevack I'm happy to take that question -- I think that we view it as a successful lead-generation device at this point. 06 May 14:13
spevack the amount of energy that we have discovered, compared to the few thousand dollars that we spent on it, was a good investment. 06 May 14:14
stickster Yes, I would like to see it move outward to other geographic areas 06 May 14:14
spevack The next few months, which is the follow up phase, will determine true success or failure 06 May 14:14
spevack but if/when we do greenlight a second, we will probably look to do it outside of the US. 06 May 14:14
spevack the next question, related, is from emilyr 06 May 14:14
dgilmore spevack: i have a contact at Bradley i need to put you or gregdek in contact with 06 May 14:14
stickster oops, hang on 06 May 14:14
spevack Does openly available curricula for using linux and or fedora in university classes exist? 06 May 14:15
spevack 06 May 14:15
* spevack waits now for the typers to catch up 06 May 14:15
stickster This was somewhat of a trial for this idea, and the community should expect to see more media (blog entries, external press, etc.) generated next time. 06 May 14:15
stickster Hi emilyr 06 May 14:17
stickster We have a couple of these kind of curricula in testing/development 06 May 14:17
stickster NCSU has one: http://courses.ncsu.edu/csc591w/ 06 May 14:17
stickster The other we are working on with Seneca College in Toronto, Canada 06 May 14:17
dgilmore spevack: id like for us to make sure that we have course work that schools can pick up and run with. 06 May 14:18
dgilmore stickster: ^^^^ 06 May 14:18
spevack dgilmore: i agree. the coursework coming out of NCSU is being developed by a RH engineer, and gregdek is taking a role in it also. 06 May 14:19
stickster yes, all this should be produced under a OSS compatible license 06 May 14:19
dgilmore for instance i was asked at Bradley if id be willing to help them write courses around open source. for proposal. which was then followed by would you be willing to teach the courses 06 May 14:19
stickster If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the ground rules 06 May 14:19
stickster There are probably opportunities to have this included in the MIT OpenCourseware offerings, too. 06 May 14:20
dgilmore is there conferences for university educators? should we have a presence at them? 06 May 14:20
spevack dgilmore: Greg and Michael Tiemann spoke at CSEET in Charleston a few weeks ago. 06 May 14:21
spevack it's a conference focusing on education 06 May 14:21
spevack software engineering education, specifically 06 May 14:21
dgilmore  :) 06 May 14:21
spevack sponsored by the IEEE 06 May 14:21
spevack so the takeaway that I'm getting here is that we need to make some more noise publicly about what we are doing in the education realm. 06 May 14:22
stickster dgilmore: I'll be going to the FSOSS conference in Toronto in October, as well. 06 May 14:22
dgilmore spevack: yep. and we need to do more. 06 May 14:22
stickster .http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2007/ <-- old 2007 page, 2008 not yet up 06 May 14:22
stickster I'd encourage the other Board members to talk about any contact they have with higher education 06 May 14:23
stickster And let's not forget this sort of work can start early. 06 May 14:23
spoleeba spevack, make noise...and we need to get a good feel for what prevents people from doing an open curriculum 06 May 14:23
spoleeba spevack, there could be common institutional roadblocks 06 May 14:23
stickster spoleeba: I wonder what subset of those problems have already been faced (and/or conquered) by MIT 06 May 14:23
mdomsch I know a prof at St. Louis U that is looking at barriers to open source usage among the staff 06 May 14:24
stickster I went to a county-level information technology expo and used that opportunity to talk to instructors and administrators one-on-one about FOSS 06 May 14:24
spoleeba stickster, I wouldnt stand up MIT as.. typical 06 May 14:24
stickster spoleeba: Certainly if there are worries about course licensing, they won't be that different from MIT to the next university, though. 06 May 14:24
stickster There are certainly a large set of issues that are common to all higher education. 06 May 14:25
spoleeba stickster, i dont think educators...think about licensing 06 May 14:25
stickster spoleeba: Err... isn't that what I said? 06 May 14:25
dgilmore spevack: we should not ignore high school either. however we might be best started by getting university classes for computer educators. so that people feel more confident to teach FOSS in high school's 06 May 14:25
spoleeba dgilmore, high schools will have even more aggressive institutional roadblocks i think 06 May 14:26
spevack dgilmore: one our our summer interns for Fedora will be a high school student from NC School of Science and Math, FWIW. NEW QUESTION from emilyr: what are some of the major issues that Board candidates are focusing on this election? And my own addition: or what topics do current Board members think are important for the next 6-12 months of Fedora? 06 May 14:26
stickster dgilmore: The one problem we'll run into in high schools -- and this isn't saying we *shouldn't* do so, just a barrier we should be aware of -- is the lack of resources that come with being a locally tax-funded institution. 06 May 14:26
spevack whenever the board is ready for a new topic, there it is :) 06 May 14:26
spoleeba stickster, inertia...and the ability to tie in to existing technology infrastructure that may exist...smart boards and crap 06 May 14:26
dgilmore spoleeba: yes. but working in, by having teachers comming out of college. with knowledge and confidence in teaching FOSS should help 06 May 14:27
stickster OK, let's move on 06 May 14:27
spevack NEW QUESTION from emilyr: what are some of the major issues that Board candidates are focusing on this election? And my own addition: or what topics do current Board members think are important for the next 6-12 months of Fedora? 06 May 14:27
spevack 06 May 14:27
* spevack quiets down now 06 May 14:27
skvidal fixing codeina 06 May 14:27
spoleeba 06 May 14:27
* spoleeba hides 06 May 14:27
mdomsch one theme I see in the new candidates is finding new ways to get new (types of) people into Feodra 06 May 14:27
stickster Let's keep in mind that not all Board candidates (1) have been announced, or (2) are present 06 May 14:27
skvidal helping drop the barriers to contributing to fedora - that's mostly solved but needs better publicity, I think 06 May 14:28
spoleeba skvidal, we have the click through cla in place? 06 May 14:28
stickster We should really allow everyone to weigh in by populating the Board Nominations page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Elections/Nominations 06 May 14:28
skvidal and we can, later. 06 May 14:28
stickster skvidal: I think there's plenty more to do with respect to barriers. 06 May 14:28
dgilmore 06 May 14:28
* dgilmore wants to focus on enabling people to scratch their itches 06 May 14:28
stickster I see a lot of those problems are being solved by the Infra and Websites teams, steady progress every day. 06 May 14:29
stickster The new wiki will help. 06 May 14:29
stickster So will other FAS2-compatible sites. 06 May 14:29
dgilmore 06 May 14:29
* dgilmore will still work on that even if not re-elected 06 May 14:29
skvidal stickster: yes - but not entirely solved, and they need to be the focii for the next release cycle 06 May 14:29
spoleeba what's important.... positioning SIGS as self-reliant entities as much as possible. So SIGs can scope their own work, and actively recruit from outside our community to meet the needs of that work 06 May 14:29
stickster skvidal: +1 that 06 May 14:29
dgilmore skvidal: and single signon everywhere :) 06 May 14:30
mdomsch re publicity: the ambassadors have been doing a great job representing Fedora t events worldwide 06 May 14:30
stickster I expect that by Fedora 10 release, most if not all our web properties should be tied into FAS2, for instance, so when someone joins with our new, easy click-through process, they immediately get wiki access, website access, maybe blog space, pushbutton inclusion in the planet, who knows. 06 May 14:30
skvidal dgilmore: s/single/seldom/ 06 May 14:30
skvidal stickster: blog space sounds like doom, imo - but sure 06 May 14:31
stickster spoleeba: The SIGs are going to be especially important when it comes to getting ISVs and others involved in Fedora & EPEL 06 May 14:31
stickster skvidal: pessimist :-P 06 May 14:31
stickster  :-D 06 May 14:31
spoleeba its pretty difficult to recruit new people at the general project level. So as we lower the barriers to entry we need to make it easier for the groups within the larger project to go out and actively pull people in 06 May 14:31
skvidal stickster: realist :) 06 May 14:31
stickster ISV, by the way == "independent software vendor" for anyone here who's not in the biz. 06 May 14:32
stickster Heck, I barely knew until I joined Red Hat. 06 May 14:32
caillon emilyr, the things I'd like to see are: getting more contributors. how can we bolster the triage, testing communities for example? we could also use more people on the website, too. also, I'd like to see more focus on getting upstreams to package in fedora, and to make it easier for people to jump in and contribute. oh, and codec buddy and desktop experience. :) 06 May 14:32
skvidal caillon: I believe calling it codec buddy will get you cursed thrice by thomasvs 06 May 14:33
spoleeba caillon, we have to have a recruitment and retention framework 06 May 14:33
--- ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) changed mode: +v steved 06 May 14:33
spoleeba caillon, within which SIGs can participate 06 May 14:33
caillon skvidal, maybe he can forgive me since i voted to keep it in ;) 06 May 14:33
skvidal caillon: :) 06 May 14:33
steved sorry I'm late... 06 May 14:33
stickster Steve Dickson, everyone! Give him a big hand.... 06 May 14:34
stickster *applause* 06 May 14:34
notting emilyr - i think we need to figure out (as caillon mentioned) how to get people into QA, triage, etc. we're historically very understaffed on those tasks, and getting more focus there can only help 06 May 14:34
caillon spoleeba, yeah, absolutely 06 May 14:34
dgilmore 06 May 14:34
* dgilmore *ROARS* 06 May 14:34
mdomsch I'm happy to see more cvsextras sponsors self-nominating 06 May 14:35
mdomsch it's encouraging to see that group want to expand further which will help new contributors too 06 May 14:35
caillon i think we've done a great job with getting engineering contributions. (though more is always welcome). but not so much with getting a lot of other contributors. and i don't mean to diminish the work that people are doing on testing, website, docs, etc. but they could use some help. 06 May 14:35
dgilmore 06 May 14:35
* dgilmore thinks we need to get some vocal supporters in the media, etc. People that can help get and keep fedora on users minds 06 May 14:35
spoleeba caillon, im still interested in find SIGs interested in experimenting with a focused recruitment week, that we can make noise about and match walkins with an appropriate SIG 06 May 14:36
dgilmore caillon: indeed 06 May 14:36
mdomsch sjvn :-) 06 May 14:36
caillon spoleeba, sign me up. I'm there. 06 May 14:36
spevack stickster: I'll invent my own follow up question here, but perhaps this would be a good time to tell folks about the press work that is going on around Fedora 9, the interviews, press kits, etc. 06 May 14:36
dgilmore spevack, stickster: please tell 06 May 14:37
spevack 06 May 14:37
* spevack wants to moderate a Fedora Board Election debate between candidates :) 06 May 14:37
stickster "I know Bill Nottingham. Bill Nottingham is a friend of mine... and Jef Spaleta, you're no Bill Nottingham." 06 May 14:38
spoleeba spevack, i will subvert such a 'debate' into a consensus building discussion 06 May 14:38
stickster So about press work. 06 May 14:38
stickster We are using the Fedora 9 launch as a means to improve the openness and vigor of our Fedora Marketing teamwork 06 May 14:39
stickster We have participation from people both inside Red Hat and from the greater community of volunteers 06 May 14:39
stickster Starting at FUDCon back in January 06 May 14:39
dgilmore  :) 06 May 14:40
stickster we put together thematic points that would help us unify messages about Fedora. 06 May 14:40
stickster We've used those themes to build talking points for use by Ambassadors and other community members when they talk about Fedora 06 May 14:40
stickster We've leveraged the excellent progress John Poelstra (poelcat) made on the feature process 06 May 14:41
stickster Turning that into an easy way to rattle off the many great features in Fedora 9 06 May 14:41
stickster We've integrated points about some of the work our community has done this cycle 06 May 14:41
stickster including Artwork 06 May 14:41
stickster KDE 4 06 May 14:41
stickster and one of my favorite stories... 06 May 14:41
stickster ROBOT SOCCER PLAYERS! 06 May 14:42
spoleeba robotic telescopes are better 06 May 14:42
stickster spoleeba: hush 06 May 14:42
stickster  :-D 06 May 14:42
caillon robots that build robots are still better 06 May 14:42
stickster All of this is a framework for doing a new kind of marketing, "open marketing" if you will 06 May 14:42
stickster we have participation from a more-or-less dedicated team member on the Red Hat press team 06 May 14:43
stickster She is helping us maximize our impact 06 May 14:43
stickster by tying us into all the important press contacts cultivated at Red Hat. 06 May 14:43
stickster This week I'm currently doing a pretty startling number of press interviews about Fedora 9 06 May 14:43
spoleeba stickster, just dont tell people it cures cancer..i want that to be a surprise 06 May 14:44
stickster And the impressive thing about all this cooperative work in Fedora Marketing is that it makes these interviews really easy! 06 May 14:44
stickster I think people are going to see an enormous amount of press around Fedora 9 06 May 14:44
stickster But... 06 May 14:44
stickster and this is ***VERY IMPORTANT***.... 06 May 14:44
stickster We still need EVERYONE'S help 06 May 14:45
stickster When you see stories, digg them. 06 May 14:45
stickster Send them to friends. 06 May 14:45
stickster Bubble this information up in the online newspool. 06 May 14:45
stickster We've also sent Live USB devices out to the press 06 May 14:46
stickster for the first time this release cycle. 06 May 14:46
stickster So they can actually put their hands on the distro and try it before, during, or after the interview. 06 May 14:46
stickster Our art team helped Max make a spiffy one-sheet to go with it, and it has plenty of opportunity for follow-up contact. 06 May 14:46
stickster One thing I would like to see us continually improve is the way we deal with press outlets. 06 May 14:47
stickster It's easy to respond to news blogs with "You got this wrong"... 06 May 14:47
spevack One more question for the Board, whenever you want it, inspired by a comment in -public. 06 May 14:47
stickster But if we can turn that instead into "I see where you may not know about XYZ... would you like to have an interview with a Fedora leader to talk about it?" 06 May 14:47
stickster *that* is a big win PR-wise. 06 May 14:47
stickster EOF 06 May 14:48
stickster (finally) 06 May 14:48
spevack stickster: +1 to that 06 May 14:48
spevack and on a directly related note 06 May 14:48
spevack a comment in -public was that the link you sent to the tact filter page was really useful 06 May 14:48
spevack and here's my question. 06 May 14:48
spevack Would someone on the board be willing to look into how well or poorly we are treating people who come into #fedora with questions, comments, etc. 06 May 14:48
spevack that's the first point of contact for many. 06 May 14:48
spevack and I wonder what the culture of #fedora is like these days. 06 May 14:49
dgilmore spevack: sure, i would be willing to 06 May 14:49
stickster spevack: That's an EXCELLENT question. 06 May 14:49
stickster dgilmore: Thank you sir 06 May 14:49
skvidal okay 06 May 14:49
spoleeba the culture is the same as it ever was 06 May 14:49
skvidal wit hthat in mind 06 May 14:49
skvidal here's the first thing 06 May 14:49
skvidal we stop the registered-only and non-root thing in #fedora 06 May 14:49
stickster spoleeba: That bad? 06 May 14:50
spoleeba maybe how the channel works or doesn't is my fault 06 May 14:50
spoleeba stickster, bad? i dont know if its bad...its consistent 06 May 14:50
skvidal stickster: it's a harsh place for someone who is new 06 May 14:50
stickster And that is appalling. 06 May 14:50
skvidal stickster: do this - boot the livecd 06 May 14:51
skvidal stickster: login 06 May 14:51
spevack May 13th would be a good deadline for trying to get some quick fixes made to that room 06 May 14:51
skvidal stickster: try to go ask a question in #fedora 06 May 14:51
spoleeba stickster, if its going to change..its going to require an affirmative effort by a group of people committed to upholding a certain level of discourse....and one or two of those people need to be active in channel all the time 06 May 14:51
skvidal I've done this test in the past 06 May 14:51
skvidal 1. IF you can get past trying to attach to the channel AT ALL 06 May 14:52
skvidal 2. then you normally will be either ignored or abused 06 May 14:52
mdomsch 1) we can solve technically 06 May 14:52
skvidal yes 06 May 14:52
mdomsch 2) we have to solve in person 06 May 14:52
stickster So dgilmore, I think this means you have a mandate for recruiting. 06 May 14:52
spoleeba stickster, meaning... office hourse 06 May 14:52
stickster spoleeba: I can do those. Who's with me? 06 May 14:53
notting is there any way to change the behavior of *existing* people in those channels? do we have any carrots/sticks? 06 May 14:53
dgilmore spot: can you please give me op in #fedora 06 May 14:53
skvidal notting: silence 06 May 14:53
spoleeba stickster, i can't commit to specific hours...im in there all the time..but i can't commit to a speecific time 06 May 14:53
caillon stickster, yeah, sounds good 06 May 14:53
stickster spoleeba: Being in there "a lot" should count. 06 May 14:53
stickster notting: I think to change that behavior we first need to identify the trouble areas/people. 06 May 14:54
spevack Is there any reason not to remove the "you have to be registered to go into #fedora" requirement? 06 May 14:54
spevack couldn't we do that today? 06 May 14:54
stickster spevack: Wasn't skvidal saying that's done? 06 May 14:54
skvidal no, I wasn't 06 May 14:54
skvidal I said it should be done 06 May 14:54
stickster Oh I see. 06 May 14:54
stickster sorry. 06 May 14:54
spevack i think he was advocating that it *should* be done 06 May 14:54
skvidal and the non-root thing, too 06 May 14:54
skvidal I understand 06 May 14:54
skvidal irc'ing as root is bad/dangerous/etc 06 May 14:54
skvidal except that some people get lost 06 May 14:55
caillon remove the restrictions 06 May 14:55
dgilmore skvidal: perhaps send a message if the user is root to warn why its bad if we can 06 May 14:55
spoleeba stickster, you also need to craft an affirmative manifesto that underlines what people commit to when they sign up for office hours... just re-write the boy scout pledge or something 06 May 14:55
skvidal and the message from freenode about that is completely obscure 06 May 14:55
dgilmore buit allow them to seek help 06 May 14:55
spevack 06 May 14:55
* spevack presses the board for a vote on this relatively up or down question :) 06 May 14:55
skvidal dgilmore: it does - but it gets lost in all the other garbage 06 May 14:55
spoleeba skvidal, you gonna remove the root bans as well 06 May 14:55
stickster dgilmore: skvidal: Right, an automessage that *makes sense* to new people. 06 May 14:55
spoleeba skvidal, ? 06 May 14:55
caillon spevack, kill the restrictions. open it up. 06 May 14:55
notting caillon: +1 06 May 14:55
stickster caillon: +1 06 May 14:55
skvidal caillon: +1 06 May 14:55
dgilmore +1 06 May 14:55
stickster Oh wait, I don't get to vote. 06 May 14:55
mdomsch +1 06 May 14:55
skvidal stickster: the message gets lost in the garbage from xchat/freenode 06 May 14:55
caillon stickster, well you don't know that. we might deadlock on it.  :P 06 May 14:56
stickster skvidal: true enough -- is it not possible to institute a bot to do this? 06 May 14:56
spevack so who's the admin of #fedora? let's drop the restrictions right now. 06 May 14:56
stickster I thin spot is. 06 May 14:56
mdomsch stickster, yes, a bot that sends a message is what you want 06 May 14:56
stickster *think 06 May 14:56
spoleeba skvidal, better have the specific instructions for what ops are suppose to do when a bot attacks.. 06 May 14:56
stickster spot: Why lookee who's here! 06 May 14:56
skvidal spoleeba: ban the bots 06 May 14:56
caillon spoleeba, kickban? 06 May 14:56
mdomsch spot is one; |Jef| is another 06 May 14:57
spevack 06 May 14:57
* spevack has another meeting at 3:00 PM, so he will leave the Board to wrap up this IRC session itself. Thanks all! 06 May 14:57
skvidal mdomsch: bots? yah true 06 May 14:57
spoleeba caillon, like i said... office hours 06 May 14:57
caillon spoleeba, we could also have a bot which does that 06 May 14:57
stickster mdomsch: Can we voice spot so he can respond here? 06 May 14:57
spoleeba caillon, cuz that a 30 minute commitment :-> 06 May 14:57
--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +v spot 06 May 14:57
spoleeba caillon, you have a bot that can tell a human user from a bot user? without requring registration? 06 May 14:57
stickster spot: You can respond if needed 06 May 14:57
spot i will drop the restrictions on #fedora now. 06 May 14:58
skvidal thanks 06 May 14:58
stickster spot: Thank you! 06 May 14:58
caillon spoleeba, you can have a bot check for the most annoying of behaviors, like flooding. 06 May 14:58
dgilmore thanks spot 06 May 14:58
spoleeba caillon, that was sort of the reason why the registation was put in place.. to make it harder for bots to storm in for an hour at a time...if memory serves 06 May 14:58
caillon spoleeba, also bots tend to have certain sigs they post. there's a db of them around somewhere surely 06 May 14:59
caillon it won't be a perfect system but it would be better than nothing. 06 May 14:59
mdomsch some additional volunteer keepers-of-the-peace could be put on the room's access list 06 May 14:59
mdomsch to hand things if/when spot is offline 06 May 15:00
stickster We should be careful to avoid stepping on people's right to speak their mind 06 May 15:00
caillon also, i'm up at bizarro hours a lot, etc. 06 May 15:00
mdomsch stickster, I was thinking about bot control 06 May 15:00
mdomsch more so than people control 06 May 15:00
stickster mdomsch: Yes, I was musing out loud 06 May 15:01
skvidal caillon: know anyone in brno who wants to be an irc op :) 06 May 15:01
stickster Oh, good call 06 May 15:01
caillon skvidal, they probably all would WANT to ;) 06 May 15:01
skvidal caillon: let me rephrase - know anyone in brno YOU would want to be an irc op? 06 May 15:01
caillon i can come up with a few names, though. i'll ask them off line to see if they'd want to 06 May 15:02
skvidal maybe brisbane has some nice folks, too 06 May 15:02
skvidal or pune 06 May 15:02
caillon yeah 06 May 15:02
stickster Brilliant 06 May 15:02
skvidal then we can cover the various tz's by people who would already be on irc 06 May 15:02
skvidal mether is in pune, right? maybe he knows some folks who can keep an eye pon things 06 May 15:02
spoleeba caillon, you need to reach out to the current ops on the channel 06 May 15:03
dgilmore spoleeba: some of them i know are no longer involved in fedora 06 May 15:03
spoleeba caillon, but there needs to be some sort statement concerning the level of commitment being asked for in the new world order 06 May 15:03
spoleeba dgilmore, i meant the ones who are active in channel 06 May 15:03
mdomsch msg chanserv access #fedora list to see 06 May 15:03
notting should this be a SIG? the fedora-help-new-users SIG? 06 May 15:06
* stickster notes there are no more questions 06 May 15:06
spoleeba notting, actually that might be best... since its more than just #fedora 06 May 15:06
skvidal 06 May 15:06
* skvidal would be in favor of a 'join irc' button on the desktop 06 May 15:06
skvidal and having it go to #fedora-help 06 May 15:06
skvidal rather than #fedora 06 May 15:06
spoleeba notting, #fedora is just a tool... how its meant to be used needs to have some context 06 May 15:07
skvidal and-or rename #fedora to #fedora-social 06 May 15:07
spoleeba skvidal, ximian had that 06 May 15:07
skvidal and fwd #fedora to #fedora-help 06 May 15:07
skvidal spoleeba: yes, I know 06 May 15:07
spoleeba skvidal, in fact... i started doing irc stuff using xim's button 06 May 15:07
skvidal so we know who to blame 06 May 15:07
skvidal how nice 06 May 15:07
mdomsch F10 feature! 06 May 15:07
skvidal 06 May 15:08
* skvidal sends a poison pin letter to the kind folks at former-ximian 06 May 15:08
mdomsch but will it fit in the XFCE spin? :-) 06 May 15:08
skvidal I personall blame luis villa 06 May 15:08
spoleeba skvidal, to be perfectly honest... i think a new channel.. makes for the best fresh start..if we need to fix channel culture 06 May 15:08
mdomsch I don't see a huge culture problem on fedora-list 06 May 15:08
skvidal mdomsch: just a volume problem? 06 May 15:08
mdomsch I wonder why #fedora would be that much different. Different people? 06 May 15:09
mdomsch it's more acceptable to flame on IRC than email? 06 May 15:09
skvidal mdomsch: forum + anonymity == asshole? 06 May 15:09
skvidal mdomsch: lemme find the penny arcard formulation of that 06 May 15:09
* stickster has hard stop at 3:30 but here for duration otherwise 06 May 15:10
stickster Hm, #fedora-help is owned 06 May 15:10
skvidal http://tcritic.com/archives/internet-dickwad-theory-from-penny-arcade/ 06 May 15:10
skvidal there you go 06 May 15:10
spoleeba mdomsch, its a combination of things 06 May 15:11
spoleeba mdomsch, irc tends to be more panicked...since its syncronous communication 06 May 15:11
mdomsch stickster, yes, but last used 3 years 36 weeks ago 06 May 15:11
skvidal you can even get it on a tshirt 06 May 15:11
skvidal http://www.pennyarcademerch.com/pat070381.html 06 May 15:11
dgilmore stickster: by Thomaz 06 May 15:11
spoleeba mdomsch, lists you have more time to think 06 May 15:12
stickster mdomsch: True enough 06 May 15:12
stickster mdomsch: Is there anyway to reclaim orphaned channels? 06 May 15:12
spoleeba mdomsch, and even review what you write..before sending..if it was written emotionally 06 May 15:12
dgilmore stickster: lets speak with free node staff 06 May 15:12
stickster I could ask the Freenode staff I'm srue 06 May 15:12
stickster dgilmore: *jinx 06 May 15:12
mdomsch jeremy? 06 May 15:12
--- mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) changed mode: +v jeremy 06 May 15:12
spoleeba mdomsch, unless you make a real effort to approach a conversation in irc, in a formal and courtesy manner, informal and emotional communication can dominate and be misinterpreted 06 May 15:13
stickster spoleeba: Boiling down to: 1. Stop. 2. Think. 3. Type. 06 May 15:14
spoleeba stickster, harder to do in irc 06 May 15:14
* stickster prepares to get out his "golden rule" sermon, then thinks better of it and puts it away. 06 May 15:14
skvidal stickster: doesn't work for me 06 May 15:14
skvidal stickster: I don't mind people being mean to me, it gives me more reason to be mean back 06 May 15:14
spoleeba stickster, when people want answers to why their system doesnt boot..and if they dont get answers within 1 minute..they leave 06 May 15:14
skvidal  :) 06 May 15:14
stickster skvidal: You always foil my plans 06 May 15:14
skvidal stickster: and my stupid dog 06 May 15:15
skvidal and those meddling kids 06 May 15:15
* stickster puts skvidal on #fedora-help kickban list 06 May 15:15
stickster But lest I derail the conversation.... 06 May 15:15
skvidal stickster: no one has ever confused me w/a tech support person 06 May 15:15
spoleeba stickster, #fedora is like a fast food drive-up window for system help 06 May 15:15
stickster spoleeba: understood. 06 May 15:16
stickster I've been around it enough to see how it works 06 May 15:16
stickster But regardless, some of the escalation I see in there from people who should know better is, frankly, sad. 06 May 15:16
stickster I think one of the cardinal expectations should be, if you're getting tired of answering people's questions politely, LEAVE. It's OK. 06 May 15:17
spoleeba stickster, which is why i think affirmative office hours would help..put people in the right mental frame... 06 May 15:17
stickster spoleeba: totally agree. 06 May 15:17
spoleeba stickster, and it gives us a way to reward effort in the area..by tracking who's signing up and doing well 06 May 15:18
notting fedora help, 5 cents. the doctor is [ in ] 06 May 15:18
skvidal notting: yes b/c lucy was excellent support 06 May 15:18
notting skvidal: they come running up to view the video and we pull the codecs away 06 May 15:18
skvidal  :) 06 May 15:19
stickster notting: correct answers, $1,000,000 3_/-: 06 May 15:19
caillon yeah. mozilla (used to?) give out tshirts when people started contributing in a meaningful way, which could include just being useful on irc to new users or doing triage work, etc 06 May 15:19
* stickster senses this topic is disintegrating fast. 06 May 15:19
mdomsch Schroeder, don't you think my fedora blue dress is pretty? 06 May 15:19
skvidal stickster: really? why do you say that 06 May 15:19
skvidal okay 06 May 15:20
skvidal I think we're done 06 May 15:20
skvidal can I get a +1? 06 May 15:20
mdomsch +1 06 May 15:20
dgilmore 06 May 15:20
* dgilmore says wrap it up 06 May 15:20
caillon skvidal, sounds like one of those songs on the radio these days 06 May 15:20
caillon 06 May 15:21
* caillon shakes his +1s in the air like he just don't care 06 May 15:21
skvidal caillon: you mean it sounds like crap? 06 May 15:21
stickster ♩♪♬♫ 06 May 15:21
notting any other questions from the channel? 06 May 15:21
skvidal okay - I'm going to change locations 06 May 15:21
stickster notting: They all left long ago. :-) 06 May 15:21
skvidal back in a few minutes 06 May 15:21
stickster I'll take care of the log. 06 May 15:22
stickster Thanks, everyone, and bye 06 May 15:22

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