From Fedora Project Wiki
| Sparks | <meeting id="Docs team"> | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting | 14:00 | |
| * stickster here | 14:00 | |
| * quaid is 50% here as Karsten 'quaid' Wade | 14:00 | |
| * jjmcd here | 14:00 | |
| * Sparks here | 14:00 | |
| * ke4qqq is here | 14:00 | |
| Sparks | Meeting agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_28_January_2008 | 14:01 |
| -!- zk-Simon [n=public@nat-studcudn-172-24-62-0.fitz.cam.ac.uk] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:01 | |
| * laubersm here | 14:01 | |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on leadership (re)fresh | 14:02 | |
| Sparks | Okay, I'm going to turn this over to quaid before he has to leave | 14:02 |
| -!- DemonJester [n=DemonJes@fedora/DemonJester] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 14:02 | |
| quaid | yeah, I'm in a meeting call right now | 14:02 |
| quaid | and have 1/2 attention | 14:02 |
| -!- jsmith-lunch [n=nnnjsmit@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:02 | |
| quaid | so will be fast as I can | 14:02 |
| quaid | first, thanks Sparks for taking the meeting today. | 14:02 |
| -!- jsmith-lunch is now known as jsmith | 14:02 | |
| -!- kulll_ [n=kulll@203.82.91.34] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] | 14:03 | |
| quaid | second, it's clear on the list to me that we can reach consensus on leadership stuff with a scheme I have in mind. | 14:03 |
| quaid | 1. I'd like to appoint Sparks to be Docs Lead for the (rest of) F11; his willingness and coordinating/organizing are clear all ready, and he | 14:03 |
| is interested and able. | ||
| quaid | 2. We can then have an election just after F11, including deciding how long we want a leader to server (one or two releases) | 14:04 |
| quaid | 3. There are a *ton* of you who are already leaders here and could clearly or likely lead this project; that is rather unusual, and awe | 14:04 |
| inspiring to me. | ||
| quaid | in fact, more current contributors are capable of leading this team for a release than not, which is cool. | 14:05 |
| quaid | 4. Then I can be a good Lt., help the transition, and help with making future leadership easier, as well as future contributing (hand-in-hand | 14:05 |
| problem) | ||
| quaid | so, even if I haven't talked with you about being in the smaller group of those who actively lead ... | 14:05 |
| quaid | I will :) | 14:06 |
| jsmith | +1 on the nomination | 14:06 |
| quaid | and I'll encourage each of you to continue in that mode -- show while doing | 14:06 |
| Sparks | +1 on term limits :) | 14:06 |
| quaid | :D | 14:06 |
| stickster | +1 on the nomination | 14:06 |
| * laubersm tags Sparks | 14:06 | |
| jjmcd | +1 | 14:06 |
| ke4qqq | +1 for sparks | 14:06 |
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| * stickster will be around to be a Lt. Lt. too | 14:07 | |
| quaid | I'd also especially like to ask you all to really step up in helping make Sparks successful | 14:07 |
| stickster | +2. | 14:07 |
| quaid | (not that you aren't ...) | 14:07 |
| quaid | which means e.g. more 6s fun from jjmcd and jsmith :) | 14:07 |
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| Sparks | :) | 14:07 |
| jjmcd | :-) | 14:07 |
| quaid | in case it's not obvious, it's the mix of skills, personality, and hard work ethics that makes the team work best. | 14:07 |
| quaid | and this is truly the strongest group of docs contributors that Fedora has yet seen, IMNSHO. | 14:08 |
| quaid | one remaining item is the F11 release notes; I'm concerned about overloading Sparks | 14:08 |
| quaid | and would suggest we consider taking ryanlerch up on his offer; | 14:08 |
| * jsmith puts away his (non-existant) campaign posters and buckles down for a great release (and release-notes!) for F11 | 14:08 | |
| quaid | he just got off a big relnotes release and is ready to go and available, afaict | 14:08 |
| Sparks | +1 to ryanlerch | 14:09 |
| quaid | that would help e.g. jjmcd get more comfortable with how the relnotes run, so he can do it for F12 | 14:09 |
| ke4qqq | +1 | 14:09 |
| jsmith | +1 to ryanlerch as well | 14:09 |
| jsmith | +1 to jjmcd being his shadow | 14:09 |
| jjmcd | Sounds good to me | 14:09 |
| laubersm | +1 | 14:09 |
| quaid | nice! | 14:10 |
| * quaid loves the smell of consensus in the morning ... | 14:10 | |
| quaid | it's the smell of community! | 14:10 |
| jsmith | quaid: (You're on a roll... no disagreement from anyone!) | 14:10 |
| stickster | I think the Relnotes definitely need a separate Someone. +1. | 14:10 |
| quaid | are there any lagging leadership issues? | 14:10 |
| jjmcd | I notice ryanlerch isn't here to defend himself | 14:10 |
| quaid | I'll do a formal email to the list after the meeting, etc. | 14:10 |
| quaid | jjmcd: heh | 14:10 |
| ke4qqq | someone bring up the controversial stuff before we slip out of consensus :) | 14:10 |
| quaid | jjmcd: I sent him email asking him to come by #fedora-docs this afternoon to discuss | 14:10 |
| quaid | after I sort-of blew him off on list trying to keep the balance. | 14:10 |
| Sparks | Anymore discussion? | 14:11 |
| quaid | ok, I'm done then; and would love to see everyone figure out the CMS discussion _without_ having to explain my own thinking again; that's | 14:11 |
| getting boring to y'all | ||
| * jjmcd is beginning to develop an opinion on that, that's dangerous | 14:12 | |
| * zk-Simon is here in case of questions | 14:12 | |
| Sparks | Okay, well, thanks for the support and as my first order of business... | 14:12 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - CMS Plan | 14:12 | |
| Sparks | I'll change the topic. | 14:12 |
| stickster | heh | 14:12 |
| stickster | +1! The crowd goes wild! | 14:12 |
| -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi@c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] | 14:12 | |
| Sparks | So today has been an interesting day for CMS discussions. | 14:13 |
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| Sparks | Was anyone not around #f-docs for the conversation? | 14:13 |
| * jjmcd caught much of it, think I came in the middle, but I figured out hwere it eas headed | 14:13 | |
| stickster | It was full of vim and vinegar | 14:14 |
| * laubersm thinks "which one?" and runs | 14:14 | |
| stickster | Especially since I know jsmith likes vim. | 14:14 |
| jjmcd | ewwwww | 14:14 |
| Sparks | jsmith: I'd like to get your input about the CMS solution discussion, please. | 14:14 |
| stickster | No one is full of Emacs and vinegar, after all. | 14:14 |
| jsmith | stickster: Amen! | 14:14 |
| quaid | stickster: only a pickle | 14:14 |
| stickster | quaid: Oho! You win, good sirrah. | 14:14 |
| jsmith | Sparks: I'm on the phone right this second, but I'm now in general agreement with the proposals at hand. | 14:15 |
| -!- DemonJes1er [n=DemonJes@mod001-notes1.modpac.com] has quit [Connection timed out] | 14:15 | |
| Sparks | Okay, does anyone have any concerns about standing up a CMS solution? | 14:15 |
| ke4qqq | so at the risk of pushing ahead - I think we should go with Zikula - they are the only planA solution | 14:15 |
| ke4qqq | and they seem to meet the requirements technically | 14:16 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: I know Word Press was interviewed. I haven't felt much energy from them, though. | 14:16 |
| jjmcd | We got something that seems to meet the reqts and someone willing to chop off the chicken's head, so where's the problem | 14:16 |
| ke4qqq | and I think if we decide to press ahead that I am the constraint | 14:16 |
| ke4qqq | jjmcd: exactly! | 14:16 |
| stickster | Has anyone asked the responsible parties for Legal, PackagingGuidelines, etc. about their thoughts? Not sure that's a requirement. | 14:16 |
| zk-Simon | If anyone has reservations, I would like to hear them. Either to put them straight or alternatively to make sure I put specific focus on | 14:16 |
| their concerns as we move forward | ||
| Sparks | stickster: Good point. | 14:16 |
| quaid | their requirement was to not have to work *harder* | 14:17 |
| quaid | and spot said he trusted us to not mess them up, iirc | 14:17 |
| Sparks | How about this, let's vote on Zikula pending no major problems from the other areas. | 14:17 |
| quaid | zikula++ | 14:17 |
| stickster | Which I think we can guarantee. Zikula has editing capabilities on par with MW> | 14:17 |
| ke4qqq | yep | 14:17 |
| ke4qqq | +1 for zikula | 14:18 |
| laubersm | +1 for taking the next step | 14:18 |
| Sparks | +1 for Zikula | 14:18 |
| jjmcd | + | 14:18 |
| stickster | +1 | 14:19 |
| zk-Simon | Ok, well that seems positive | 14:19 |
| Sparks | That sounds like a pass to me. | 14:19 |
| zk-Simon | Next step? What do you want from me? | 14:19 |
| Sparks | I'll write it up this afternoon and make sure we have the support from others. | 14:20 |
| ke4qqq | next step is packaging iirc, and I think that is still on my plate | 14:20 |
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| Sparks | zk-Simon: If you don't mind being on hand today and tomorrow for any questions from other groups. | 14:20 |
| * ke4qqq is fail for not already having it done | 14:20 | |
| zk-Simon | It just so happens we have a RPM build for Zikula as of a couple of days ago | 14:20 |
| Sparks | Yes, packaging is high priority | 14:20 |
| ke4qqq | zk-Simon: Link? | 14:20 |
| jjmcd | Ohhh, that was my only concern, would be nice to see it packaged | 14:20 |
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| ke4qqq | yeah for us to use it, it must live in fedora | 14:21 |
| quaid | we should be able to start playing on the publictest instance even without the package | 14:21 |
| zk-Simon | Sparks: No link, I'd ahve to upload it somewhere (in my email inbox I think) | 14:21 |
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| Sparks | zk-Simon: Get with ke4qqq on that. | 14:21 |
| -!- itamarjp [n=itamar@189-015-176-126.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:21 | |
| quaid | so for zk-Simon that means applying for sysadmin and sysadmin-test with anyone from zikula.org who is helping | 14:21 |
| ke4qqq | zk-Simon: SRPM and spec file please - feel free to send it to the list or me privately | 14:21 |
| quaid | zk-Simon: those are FAS groups | 14:21 |
| quaid | mmcgrath can tell us if he wants to make a new sysadmin-cms ... | 14:22 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: Can you help zk-Simon with getting FAS accounts squared away? | 14:22 |
| zk-Simon | ok. Have to hold my hand a little here since I don't know your processess | 14:22 |
| ke4qqq | Sparks: yep - we'll take care of it after the meeting | 14:22 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: Thank you | 14:22 |
| ke4qqq | np | 14:22 |
| Sparks | Anything else on the CMS? | 14:23 |
| zk-Simon | I'll be around for as long as necessary tomorrow, but I'm out for a couple of hours at least from the end of the meeting | 14:23 |
| -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm@user-24-214-179-165.knology.net] has joined #fedora-meeting | 14:23 | |
| * stickster is happy to see such verve and vigor in the Docs meeting again :-) | 14:24 | |
| ke4qqq | zk-Simon: ok - I am around quite a bit, just ping me when you have some time | 14:24 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on Release Notes document | 14:24 | |
| Sparks | I know we are going to have to do some switching around on this... | 14:25 |
| Sparks | I know we need beat writers for various subjects. | 14:25 |
| Sparks | Does anyone have any questions on this? I should be better prepared next week. | 14:26 |
| ke4qqq | do we have a list of what beats have no writers? | 14:26 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: Yes... | 14:26 |
| * Sparks goes hunting for the link | 14:26 | |
| Sparks | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats | 14:26 |
| Sparks | All 48 of them (plus or minus) | 14:27 |
| Sparks | The page still needs some cleaning up. | 14:27 |
| Sparks | I sent out an email to everyone that was listed from F10. If they were continueing on then they removed the "*" from beside their name. | 14:27 |
| ke4qqq | so - can we delegate that out 'beat writer hunting' now? | 14:27 |
| Sparks | But there are a lot of open spots that could use some love | 14:28 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: sure | 14:28 |
| stickster | Makes sense to move on to finding new writers. | 14:28 |
| Sparks | stickster: :1 | 14:28 |
| Sparks | +1 | 14:28 |
| Sparks | Yeah, we are WAY behind on this. | 14:28 |
| stickster | It's not that bad, I don't think | 14:29 |
| stickster | But it wouldn't hurt to start contacting people responsible for packages that are central to the beat | 14:29 |
| Sparks | We have had quite a few people sign up for slots in the past week which is really good. | 14:29 |
| stickster | i.e. fedora-kernel-list, or the virt list, or... | 14:29 |
| stickster | Typically those developers do start devoting more time post-Beta | 14:29 |
| Sparks | stickster: Absolutely. | 14:29 |
| stickster | But it's incumbent upon us to... keep them from forgetting ;-) | 14:30 |
| jjmcd | Some of the major devtools came up as new beats. Not sure that e.g. Emacs needs its own beat, but most of those I expect to do | 14:30 |
| stickster | jjmcd: They're coming up as new beats because they're transcluded pages | 14:30 |
| jjmcd | ahhh yeah, you mentioned how you like that | 14:31 |
| * stickster loathes transcludes in the relnotes beats... headaches! | 14:31 | |
| Sparks | yeah | 14:31 |
| stickster | I think it would be sensible to provide a key for people to know where to file their notes on "Package XYZ" | 14:31 |
| jjmcd | Some may make sense, tho. The Haskell group seems pretty active, actually, might be good to recruit someone there | 14:31 |
| stickster | Then kill the transcludes | 14:31 |
| quaid | +1 to death of transcludes | 14:32 |
| Sparks | +1 | 14:32 |
| quaid | they aren't needed | 14:32 |
| stickster | Every time we try to be clever, we generally out-clever ourselves :-D | 14:32 |
| quaid | you said it! | 14:32 |
| danielsmw | lol | 14:33 |
| stickster | If Ian had been around he'd have slapped sense into us | 14:33 |
| Sparks | Well, he can now | 14:33 |
| ke4qqq | I think he actually prefers setting people on fire :) | 14:33 |
| quaid | with a sharp fork to the eyes first | 14:33 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Do you want to start beating the drum on the... beats? | 14:33 |
| jjmcd | Sure 'nuff | 14:34 |
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| Sparks | jjmcd: Okay, let me know if you need anything. Targetting the groups that aren't represented would be great. | 14:34 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: And maybe something up on planet. | 14:34 |
| -!- petreu [n=peter@fedora/petreu] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"] | 14:34 | |
| * jjmcd gotta get hooked up there yet | 14:34 | |
| Sparks | jjmcd: I can put something up there in the mean time. :) | 14:35 |
| jjmcd | cool | 14:35 |
| Sparks | Anything else? | 14:35 |
| ke4qqq | jjmcd: lets work on that after the meeting | 14:35 |
| ke4qqq | I owe work for that to danielsmw as well | 14:36 |
| jjmcd | roger that | 14:36 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - DocsProject page changes | 14:37 | |
| Sparks | ianweller is working with G_work to get the wikibot turned loose on the Docs Pages. | 14:37 |
| danielsmw | ke4qqq: I'll join in after this then | 14:37 |
| stickster | sweet | 14:37 |
| Sparks | Apparently there are some problems with the bot so G_work is working on that. | 14:38 |
| Sparks | I'll let ianweller talk about it later. | 14:38 |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - John Poelstra's schedule | 14:38 | |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: What'd did you come up with from the conference call? | 14:39 |
| ke4qqq | so releng is going to handle alpha announcement | 14:40 |
| ke4qqq | and keep it | 14:40 |
| ke4qqq | 'permanently' | 14:40 |
| ke4qqq | we are taking Beta and GA release announcements | 14:40 |
| quaid | sweet | 14:40 |
| Sparks | ke4qqq: That works. | 14:41 |
| Sparks | Did everyone get a chance to look at the schedule that John sent out? | 14:41 |
| ke4qqq | essentially eof from me - I have more details from the call - but none that relate to docs project. | 14:41 |
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| stickster | ke4qqq: Probably worth sending something to the f-docs-list to memorialize | 14:42 |
| Sparks | +1 | 14:42 |
| jjmcd | look at, yes; digest, no | 14:42 |
| Sparks | jjmcd: Yeah | 14:42 |
| stickster | I'll take the action item to get Poelstra to add the appropriate actions to the docs tasks list | 14:42 |
| Sparks | stickster: Thank you | 14:42 |
| * jsmith stumbles back from a phone conference | 14:42 | |
| laubersm | what jjmcd said | 14:43 |
| jsmith | (Silly $dayjob... gotta get Fedora or Red Hat to hire me) | 14:43 |
| ke4qqq | lol | 14:43 |
| Sparks | jsmith: Yeah, me too. | 14:43 |
| jjmcd | That whole working for a living thing really sucks,doesn't it | 14:43 |
| Sparks | Okay, lets take the week to digest what needs to be done and come back to it next week | 14:43 |
| jsmith | jjmcd: I don't mind working... it's the politics that grate on my nerves | 14:44 |
| * jjmcd remembers that, but bing a full-time bum is a much sweeter gig | 14:44 | |
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Go over task table | 14:44 | |
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Task_table | ||
| * quaid done with his meeting | 14:44 | |
| quaid | that table is a bit out of date, sorry :) | 14:44 |
| laubersm | I was noticing that :) | 14:44 |
| Sparks | It looks like we need to garden our table! | 14:45 |
| quaid | heh | 14:45 |
| quaid | I can edit and make changes while we discuss the updates, if you'd like | 14:46 |
| quaid | (if you aren't already someone) | 14:46 |
| jjmcd | seems like we have a bunch of projects that need to be transcluded in that list | 14:46 |
| quaid | items missing from there? yes | 14:46 |
| * quaid edits the page now | 14:48 | |
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| stickster | Yay table gardening :-) | 14:49 |
| jjmcd | Looks like some things are dealt with, some need more detail. e.g. now that we have a CMS strategy we need to lay out the steps. | 14:49 |
| quaid | for the first item, we are waiting on page renaming, right? | 14:49 |
| stickster | more or less, I suppose. | 14:49 |
| quaid | how do we feel about our toolchain now? | 14:50 |
| quaid | is that still an open task? | 14:50 |
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| jjmcd | I suspect it will evolve post-CMS, wonder whether we should stress over it before | 14:51 |
| ke4qqq | I thought our focus was to move to publican? | 14:51 |
| quaid | s | 14:51 |
| ke4qqq | independent of any cms | 14:51 |
| quaid | yes | 14:51 |
| jjmcd | I assume so | 14:51 |
| quaid | but fedora-doc-utils still has some purpose, etc. | 14:51 |
| quaid | how about jsmith, stickster, and I discuss next chance on IRC to see where that is and what needs to be done? | 14:52 |
| jjmcd | But what is the point of CMS if it doesn't help our processes? Not sure we know exactly HOW yet | 14:52 |
| quaid | this toolchain stuff is primarily the work that happens just before the CMS pulls the content in. | 14:52 |
| quaid | but it's possible there will be stuff to *add* to the toolchain as part of the CMS work. | 14:52 |
| jjmcd | Yes, I gather that. I suspect, tho, some things will want to change | 14:53 |
| jjmcd | Yeah, maybe add, maybe subtract | 14:53 |
| quaid | ok, I marked it as ongoing | 14:53 |
| quaid | and that the three principals for that task will talk and decide what up | 14:53 |
| jsmith | Sounds like a plan | 14:54 |
| quaid | publican migration ... next chance I might work on that during FAD at SCaLE 7x? | 14:54 |
| quaid | there is a branch for migrating the IG | 14:54 |
| stickster | I think the f-d-u is a pet project only at this point, so yeah, we'll discuss that offline | 14:54 |
| quaid | jsmith: have you looked at that? | 14:54 |
| stickster | ("offline" == "not here, probably online") | 14:54 |
| jsmith | quaid: Got started at FudCON, then ran into problems, haven't picked it back up yet | 14:54 |
| jsmith | quaid: May have some time next week, while I'm playing 'Booth Babe' at a conference in Miami | 14:55 |
| stickster | jsmith: Apparently ryanlerch did a migration of our release notes that he claims was fairly painles | 14:55 |
| stickster | *painless, even | 14:55 |
| stickster | I asked him to locate and augment our guidance for doing that procedure on the wiki | 14:55 |
| ke4qqq | stickster: did he document the process? | 14:55 |
| jsmith | stickster: That's great to hear! | 14:55 |
| stickster | ke4qqq: q.v. ^^ | 14:55 |
| quaid | ok, next item | 14:56 |
| quaid | team per document is completed. | 14:56 |
| quaid | right? | 14:56 |
| ke4qqq | well at least lead | 14:56 |
| jjmcd | For some, like RL, recruiting the team will be an ongoing thing, and for all probably some need | 14:57 |
| quaid | ok, lead writer id'd still working on team | 14:57 |
| quaid | jjmcd: yep, I just put 'ongoing' as deadline :) | 14:57 |
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| quaid | ok I'll put the CMS status under that task | 14:58 |
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| Sparks | 1 minute warning | 14:59 |
| quaid | the future of fedora docs stuff is resolved; that was all about 'get a leader who isn't stale in the head' | 14:59 |
| quaid | the rest is fine | 14:59 |
| stickster | The biggest issue before the group has been cleared, that's a good meeting in my bookk. | 14:59 |
| * quaid thinks that is the task list done | 14:59 | |
| stickster | Sparks: We're here for you, and know you'll do a good job. | 14:59 |
| quaid | stickster: heck, we touched upon everything to boot! | 14:59 |
| Sparks | :) | 14:59 |
| Sparks | stickster: thanks. | 14:59 |
| Sparks | Anyone have anything else? | 15:00 |
| quaid | let's call it :0 | 15:00 |
| Sparks | 5 | 15:00 |
| laubersm | Thanks Sparks!!!! | 15:00 |
| Sparks | 4 | 15:00 |
| Sparks | 3 | 15:00 |
| Sparks | 2 | 15:00 |
| Sparks | 1 | 15:00 |
| Sparks | Thanks folks! | 15:00 |
| jjmcd | And the crowd roars | 15:00 |
| Sparks | </meeting> | 15:00 |