From Fedora Project Wiki
| quaid | <meeting id="Docs team"> | 11:01 |
|---|---|---|
| jjmcd | yo | 11:02 |
| zoglesby | hello | 11:02 |
| * jjmcd may be a little slow on the uptake today ... got drops in his eyes and can't see so good | 11:03 | |
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| * quaid getting link to agenda, on sec | 11:04 | |
| quaid | DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_04_February_2009 | 11:04 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: F11 schedule confirmation/ratification | 11:06 | |
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| quaid | if you look at that page above, there are links to the schedule and poelcat's last post on it | 11:06 |
| quaid | http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html | 11:07 |
| quaid | that's our main one | 11:07 |
| * stickster back now | 11:07 | |
| quaid | anyone had a chance to look at that before? | 11:07 |
| stickster | quaid: This one might help too: | 11:07 |
| stickster | http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-and-trans-tasks.html | 11:08 |
| stickster | Shows lining up of Docs w/L10n. | 11:08 |
| stickster | I sent poelcat a comment or two about that one IIRC | 11:08 |
| quaid | wazzat? | 11:08 |
| jjmcd | What precisely is "String freeze"? | 11:09 |
| stickster | I think it was a clarification of how the item was stated on one line. | 11:09 |
| quaid | jjmcd: it is | 11:09 |
| stickster | jjmcd: The point beyond which strings are not changed | 11:09 |
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| stickster | jjmcd: For software, that means no further changes to dialog text, etc. that would make more work for translators. | 11:09 |
| jjmcd | aha | 11:10 |
| stickster | jjmcd: That way, starting with the string freeze, they are working with set-in-stone POTs for everything | 11:10 |
| stickster | jjmcd: *occasionally* they will change, but violating the string freeze has to be requested from the L10n, or at least announced, and justified | 11:10 |
| quaid | same for content | 11:10 |
| quaid | so on our schedule, a "Translation Deadline" is the deadline for the l10n team to finish trans | 11:11 |
| * ke4qqq is late | 11:11 | |
| quaid | where a string freeze is our deadline for getting content finished for l10n to start on | 11:11 |
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| jjmcd | OK, so basically, L10n focuses on translating software for beta, docs for release | 11:11 |
| quaid | for preview and final release | 11:12 |
| * quaid confirms that | 11:12 | |
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| jjmcd | yah, didn't scroll all the way down to previes | 11:12 |
| quaid | that's actually where it gets confusing | 11:12 |
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| quaid | the time between beta and preview is so tight ... | 11:12 |
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| quaid | yeah, it looks like 4-14 is the trans deadline for the release notes, and we build it on 4-21 | 11:14 |
| jjmcd | seems like for F10 we had like 3 betas | 11:14 |
| quaid | ok, I don't think I see anything that bothers me | 11:16 |
| quaid | what other clarifications can we provide? | 11:16 |
| * stickster waves to ke4qqq | 11:18 | |
| quaid | we should hear from Sparks (and ke4qqq !) before ratifying | 11:18 |
| quaid | we can push this to later via IRC when they are available. | 11:18 |
| jjmcd | and ryanlerch | 11:19 |
| quaid | that is, I think ke4qqq was there and jsmith certainly was when we made the schedule | 11:19 |
| quaid | yeah, good point | 11:19 |
| quaid | how about this | 11:19 |
| stickster | Right | 11:19 |
| quaid | I'll take the task of talking with everyone today | 11:19 |
| stickster | We should just ask Sparks to stamp it (if agreed) and communicate with Poelstra | 11:19 |
| * ke4qqq waves back at stickster | 11:19 | |
| * stickster just totally resaid what everyone else just said. | 11:19 | |
| quaid | and we'll get questions or approval or whatever worked out by ~0100 UTC Th. | 11:19 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: CMS update | 11:20 | |
| quaid | good timing ke4qqq | 11:20 |
| ke4qqq | lol | 11:20 |
| ke4qqq | I suppose | 11:20 |
| jjmcd | Does ryanlerch even come online by then? Thats only la few hours from now | 11:20 |
| ke4qqq | he's got almost 4 hours | 11:21 |
| * jjmcd shouldn't have told the optometrist "oh yeah, we can do the dilation thing this year" | 11:21 | |
| quaid | jjmcd: yeah, unless he sleeps in, six hours from now is late enough | 11:21 |
| quaid | 0100 isn't a hard deadline, that's roughly COB on PST. | 11:22 |
| jjmcd | K, I knew I've been seeing him in tghe evening, but haven't been watching the clock that close | 11:22 |
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| ke4qqq | anyway - CMS - so 1.1.1 zikula came out, and they are actually doing a dedicated server build (as opposed to shared hosting) to accommodate some of my complaints, but they'll have that available to everyone | 11:22 |
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| ke4qqq | rpm wise - I merely have to get the config file squared away to deal with all of the changes I requested that they made - otherwise it looks fine. I hopefully will have something up in a few days, and plan to dedicate the weekend to working on doing final tweaking | 11:23 |
| * quaid doesn't think Infra knew they'd get such a good vetting from Docs :) | 11:23 | |
| ke4qqq | yeah I thought the 16 .htaccess files was a bit overkill | 11:24 |
| ke4qqq | I mean I see the need, but it's drastically slower | 11:24 |
| ke4qqq | so we'll have a dedicated .conf file to handle all of that | 11:25 |
| ke4qqq | anyway that's just the base package | 11:25 |
| ke4qqq | we also have IIRC 8 modules | 11:25 |
| ke4qqq | that we'll need to package I think | 11:26 |
| quaid | are the Zikula folks interested in co-maintaining? | 11:27 |
| ke4qqq | yes one of the zikula guys is working on the modules | 11:27 |
| * quaid is on the watch for packages Docs relies upon that only have a single maintainer :) | 11:27 | |
| quaid | kewl | 11:27 |
| stickster | :-) | 11:27 |
| ke4qqq | and they actually did the first push on the core package rpm, just some packaging guidelines that needed to be addressed | 11:28 |
| * mmcgrath wonders if his notes to the list made sense about authentication | 11:28 | |
| ke4qqq | mmcgrath: they did, but honestly I wasn't aware that either of the test sites were authing yet, just that we had discussed auth | 11:29 |
| * ke4qqq notes that's another module that we'll have to build a package for - as soon as we get source | 11:30 | |
| ke4qqq | and in response to your most recent message - IIRC there is already a cmsadmin group in fas now | 11:31 |
| ke4qqq | sparks requested it last week | 11:31 |
| mmcgrath | k, I'll re-create it in the test system | 11:31 |
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| stickster | mmcgrath: I had to read between the lines a little -- what you meant is that we shouldn't be sending usernames and passphrases to a system that's not managed by the Fedora Infrastructure team, right? | 11:33 |
| stickster | i.e. it's not a problem with Zikula or anyone else in particular, more just a general best practice. | 11:33 |
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| itbegins | sorry to be so late, caught up in traffic much worse than I expected | 11:34 |
| mmcgrath | stickster: correct. | 11:34 |
| itbegins | I've got no log, anything on the CMS you'd like me to answer? | 11:34 |
| mmcgrath | Nothing against the zikula guys, just a policy we have is all. We generally have a test infrastructure up. | 11:34 |
| quaid | itbegins: no worries; there'll be an IRC log afterward; ke4qqq just gave us a status of packaging and such for CMS | 11:34 |
| mmcgrath | so we threw the test account system up so they can auth against that until we're on the publictest servers, but everything should be golden again when they change from authing against admin.fp.o to authing against pt15 is all. | 11:35 |
| mmcgrath | we've done this before in the past. | 11:35 |
| mmcgrath | itbegins: did you get my messages to fedora-docs about auth? | 11:35 |
| ke4qqq | mmcgrath: will we have to revert the ssl cert verification changes? | 11:35 |
| * ke4qqq assumes so | 11:35 | |
| ke4qqq | at least for client | 11:35 |
| itbegins | mmcgrath: Just read them, that's fine and perfectly understandable | 11:35 |
| mmcgrath | ssl cert verification? | 11:36 |
| mmcgrath | oh oh. | 11:36 |
| mmcgrath | ke4qqq: yah, just for test though. Thats why they were there :) | 11:36 |
| ke4qqq | ok - shouldn't be a problem | 11:36 |
| mmcgrath | itbegins: kew, I'm around all afternoon if you need help with the account system. The one at publictest15 we can do whatever you want to with as far as creating and removing users and test groups. go nuts! | 11:37 |
| mmcgrath | :) | 11:37 |
| ke4qqq | should be fun to play with regardless | 11:37 |
| itbegins | mmcgrath: I've pretty much got it working, the only thing I think remains is syncing with FAS groups. I plan to do that by creating groups with the same name in the CMS and just syncing on login | 11:37 |
| mmcgrath | cool | 11:37 |
| itbegins | There's also a fallback to the normal Zikula auth should FAS crash for any reason | 11:38 |
| mmcgrath | itbegins: after the meeting come ping me in #fedora-admin and I'll make sure the group and your test account are all setup properly. | 11:38 |
| itbegins | mmcgrath: Ok, thanks. I'd also like that chat about php config/security | 11:39 |
| mmcgrath | sure thing | 11:39 |
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| itbegins | Anything else people want to know about the CMS? | 11:39 |
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| quaid | ok, we can move on then | 11:41 |
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| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Relnotes update | 11:42 | |
| quaid | jjmcd who cannot see ... have anything to add? | 11:42 |
| jjmcd | No, sounds good to me | 11:42 |
| * quaid knows Alpha notes are out, ryanlerch was looking at converting to DocBook but don't know if he wanted to follow through with publishing them | 11:42 | |
| * ke4qqq thought he had publicanized them already | 11:43 | |
| jjmcd | ryanlerch would like to do a routine wiki->DocBook translation | 11:43 |
| quaid | sure | 11:43 |
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| quaid | but he just ran in to the very reason we stopped :) | 11:43 |
| ke4qqq | which is? | 11:43 |
| quaid | it's "done" but not published | 11:43 |
| ke4qqq | ahhh ok | 11:43 |
| quaid | is it in git? | 11:43 |
| quaid | can I go publish it right now? | 11:43 |
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| quaid | cf. the wiki which is there, done, published, let's move on-able | 11:44 |
| quaid | we all just need to be aware that each of these does add complexity | 11:44 |
| stickster | quaid: So what you're saying... | 11:45 |
| * jjmcd sees some regression test value in a routine build, esp. if automated | 11:45 | |
| stickster | is that we can publish on the wiki instantly, but... | 11:45 |
| * stickster scratches head. | 11:45 | |
| quaid | cannot yet on docs.fp.org, yes | 11:45 |
| stickster | Ah, right. | 11:46 |
| stickster | So we can't just publish the Publican output HTML on docs.fedoraproject.org. | 11:46 |
| stickster | Because... style sheets will be wrong? | 11:46 |
| quaid | I was more drawing the lines between the dots to explain what wasn't so obvious to people, i.e., why we had moved to the wiki for Alpha/Beta notes in the past. | 11:46 |
| stickster | Or is it because we're still converting things to PHP and stuff gets stripped in the back and forth? | 11:46 |
| quaid | we can just publish them | 11:46 |
| quaid | sorry, I'm not being obvious, am I? | 11:47 |
| itbegins | stickster: Part of the stuff I'm getting done for the CMS is a pull-from-source-and-publish bash script | 11:47 |
| stickster | quaid: No, and we should be. | 11:47 |
| quaid | until the desire to Publicanize them came about, the task was done. | 11:47 |
| itbegins | stickster: Which you'll be able to access through the CMS admin section. | 11:47 |
| quaid | once that desire took hold, the task was undone and we still don't have notes published for Alpha. | 11:47 |
| quaid | nor a method for e.g. Jesse to add last minute information and not have to wait 24 hours for all the people and pieces to align. | 11:47 |
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| jjmcd | I gotta admit, I don't see the value for alpha | 11:48 |
| stickster | Ah, there's the rub. If there's no change freeze in place significantly before release day, this gets almost impossible for someone. | 11:48 |
| quaid | I get that we like the idea of prettier notes, but I think it's too late for Alpha, maybe do it for Beta. | 11:48 |
| jjmcd | But I see enormous value in a routine, automatic DocBook version of what is currently in the wiki, so that when we finally do make the published version, there are no surprises. | 11:49 |
| stickster | quaid: Then I would say we should add a task to the Docs schedule which is a one-sheet content freeze. | 11:49 |
| quaid | but I'm not the hammer no more to say, "Forget about it," and I don't want to be discouraging where I see challenges due to myopia. | 11:49 |
| stickster | (as well as a conversion and publication task for the Beta relnotes one-sheet) | 11:49 |
| stickster | Sparks should probably address this, then. | 11:50 |
| quaid | well ... if the release notes team thinks Publican-based notes are more important than up-to-date information and ease of publishing, then yes, they should do that. | 11:50 |
| quaid | at some point, those converge and isn't an either/or anymore | 11:50 |
| quaid | until then ... one has to reign. | 11:50 |
| stickster | quaid: Just to be clear, I recall why we wanted to do this only for Preview and Final. | 11:50 |
| quaid | yeah, we'll leave this for ryan and sparks to hash out. | 11:51 |
| jjmcd | Right answer | 11:51 |
| quaid | stickster: yeah, I know :) | 11:51 |
| stickster | But having it out on the table openly is important so the new folks can weigh it too. | 11:51 |
| jjmcd | I think ryanlerch envisions wiki->DocBook on the crontab, and if he can actually do that I think its great | 11:52 |
| jjmcd | but for the one pagers, I personally don't see the point | 11:52 |
| quaid | stickster: yeah, was trying to do that yesterday but didn't get there I reckon. | 11:52 |
| quaid | ok, I've noted it in the summary | 11:52 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Installation Guide status | 11:53 | |
| quaid | ke4qqq: have you begun to think about this? | 11:53 |
| ke4qqq | ooh, me again | 11:53 |
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| ke4qqq | yes - and I am delinquent in seeking help | 11:53 |
| quaid | we can talk with jlaska/adamw about IG testing again | 11:53 |
| ke4qqq | I need to put a call out for writers | 11:53 |
| ke4qqq | it looks like eawest may not be able to join us this time since she is rapidly becoming great with child | 11:54 |
| stickster | I always liked the term "gravid" | 11:54 |
| ke4qqq | so I need to find an editor as well. | 11:54 |
| ke4qqq | that or I'll be writing a lot and begging one of you to edit | 11:55 |
| ke4qqq | oh, gravid is a great term | 11:55 |
| ke4qqq | but we have a week or two to start writing | 11:55 |
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| ke4qqq | I did change the owner in the owners list so stickster doesn't get besieged with tickets | 11:56 |
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| quaid | yay | 11:56 |
| stickster | w00t | 11:56 |
| ke4qqq | I almost did the same for danielsmw and the ug, but wanted to make sure he had a bz account first | 11:57 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: I'll be floating a bit more this time, so I'll be able to backfill. | 11:57 |
| * stickster notes mmcgrath looking for group name info on-list. Who's on the hook for that? | 11:57 | |
| ke4qqq | cool | 11:57 |
| ke4qqq | we provided it in channel | 11:57 |
| stickster | Oh sweet, I'm behind. That's always good. | 11:57 |
| stickster | It means things are moving on well without me and I can, y'know, take a nap instead. | 11:58 |
| ke4qqq | that's what fearless project leaders are supposed to do, no? | 11:58 |
| stickster | That and eat peeled grapes, exactly. | 11:58 |
| jjmcd | If you were napping then you wouldnt have anything to tweet about | 11:58 |
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| stickster | At least, that's what I keep telling my wife. | 11:58 |
| quaid | ok, we are about out of time | 11:59 |
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| quaid | we'll do meeting time change on list | 11:59 |
| quaid | the other guides ... well, how about discuss those on list, too | 11:59 |
| quaid | anthing else in the waning minute? | 11:59 |
| * quaid moving so fast he's levng ltrs behnd | 11:59 | |
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| * stickster +1 | 12:00 | |
| * stickster then moves to adjourn | 12:00 | |
| quaid | rock on | 12:00 |
| * quaid counts | 12:00 | |
| quaid | 5 | 12:00 |
| quaid | 4 | 12:00 |
| quaid | 3 | 12:00 |
| quaid | 2 | 12:00 |
| quaid | 1 | 12:00 |
| quaid | </meeting> | 12:00 |
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