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quaid <meeting id="Docs team"> 11:01
jjmcd yo 11:02
zoglesby hello 11:02
* jjmcd may be a little slow on the uptake today ... got drops in his eyes and can't see so good 11:03
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* quaid getting link to agenda, on sec 11:04
quaid DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_04_February_2009 11:04
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: F11 schedule confirmation/ratification 11:06
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quaid if you look at that page above, there are links to the schedule and poelcat's last post on it 11:06
quaid 11:07
quaid that's our main one 11:07
* stickster back now 11:07
quaid anyone had a chance to look at that before? 11:07
stickster quaid: This one might help too: 11:07
stickster 11:08
stickster Shows lining up of Docs w/L10n. 11:08
stickster I sent poelcat a comment or two about that one IIRC 11:08
quaid wazzat? 11:08
jjmcd What precisely is "String freeze"? 11:09
stickster I think it was a clarification of how the item was stated on one line. 11:09
quaid jjmcd: it is 11:09
stickster jjmcd: The point beyond which strings are not changed 11:09
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stickster jjmcd: For software, that means no further changes to dialog text, etc. that would make more work for translators. 11:09
jjmcd aha 11:10
stickster jjmcd: That way, starting with the string freeze, they are working with set-in-stone POTs for everything 11:10
stickster jjmcd: *occasionally* they will change, but violating the string freeze has to be requested from the L10n, or at least announced, and justified 11:10
quaid same for content 11:10
quaid so on our schedule, a "Translation Deadline" is the deadline for the l10n team to finish trans 11:11
* ke4qqq is late 11:11
quaid where a string freeze is our deadline for getting content finished for l10n to start on 11:11
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jjmcd OK, so basically, L10n focuses on translating software for beta, docs for release 11:11
quaid for preview and final release 11:12
* quaid confirms that 11:12
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jjmcd yah, didn't scroll all the way down to previes 11:12
quaid that's actually where it gets confusing 11:12
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quaid the time between beta and preview is so tight ... 11:12
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quaid yeah, it looks like 4-14 is the trans deadline for the release notes, and we build it on 4-21 11:14
jjmcd seems like for F10 we had like 3 betas 11:14
quaid ok, I don't think I see anything that bothers me 11:16
quaid what other clarifications can we provide? 11:16
* stickster waves to ke4qqq 11:18
quaid we should hear from Sparks (and ke4qqq !) before ratifying 11:18
quaid we can push this to later via IRC when they are available. 11:18
jjmcd and ryanlerch 11:19
quaid that is, I think ke4qqq was there and jsmith certainly was when we made the schedule 11:19
quaid yeah, good point 11:19
quaid how about this 11:19
stickster Right 11:19
quaid I'll take the task of talking with everyone today 11:19
stickster We should just ask Sparks to stamp it (if agreed) and communicate with Poelstra 11:19
* ke4qqq waves back at stickster 11:19
* stickster just totally resaid what everyone else just said. 11:19
quaid and we'll get questions or approval or whatever worked out by ~0100 UTC Th. 11:19
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: CMS update 11:20
quaid good timing ke4qqq 11:20
ke4qqq lol 11:20
ke4qqq I suppose 11:20
jjmcd Does ryanlerch even come online by then? Thats only la few hours from now 11:20
ke4qqq he's got almost 4 hours 11:21
* jjmcd shouldn't have told the optometrist "oh yeah, we can do the dilation thing this year" 11:21
quaid jjmcd: yeah, unless he sleeps in, six hours from now is late enough 11:21
quaid 0100 isn't a hard deadline, that's roughly COB on PST. 11:22
jjmcd K, I knew I've been seeing him in tghe evening, but haven't been watching the clock that close 11:22
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ke4qqq anyway - CMS - so 1.1.1 zikula came out, and they are actually doing a dedicated server build (as opposed to shared hosting) to accommodate some of my complaints, but they'll have that available to everyone 11:22
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ke4qqq rpm wise - I merely have to get the config file squared away to deal with all of the changes I requested that they made - otherwise it looks fine. I hopefully will have something up in a few days, and plan to dedicate the weekend to working on doing final tweaking 11:23
* quaid doesn't think Infra knew they'd get such a good vetting from Docs :) 11:23
ke4qqq yeah I thought the 16 .htaccess files was a bit overkill 11:24
ke4qqq I mean I see the need, but it's drastically slower 11:24
ke4qqq so we'll have a dedicated .conf file to handle all of that 11:25
ke4qqq anyway that's just the base package 11:25
ke4qqq we also have IIRC 8 modules 11:25
ke4qqq that we'll need to package I think 11:26
quaid are the Zikula folks interested in co-maintaining? 11:27
ke4qqq yes one of the zikula guys is working on the modules 11:27
* quaid is on the watch for packages Docs relies upon that only have a single maintainer :) 11:27
quaid kewl 11:27
stickster :-) 11:27
ke4qqq and they actually did the first push on the core package rpm, just some packaging guidelines that needed to be addressed 11:28
* mmcgrath wonders if his notes to the list made sense about authentication 11:28
ke4qqq mmcgrath: they did, but honestly I wasn't aware that either of the test sites were authing yet, just that we had discussed auth 11:29
* ke4qqq notes that's another module that we'll have to build a package for - as soon as we get source 11:30
ke4qqq and in response to your most recent message - IIRC there is already a cmsadmin group in fas now 11:31
ke4qqq sparks requested it last week 11:31
mmcgrath k, I'll re-create it in the test system 11:31
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stickster mmcgrath: I had to read between the lines a little -- what you meant is that we shouldn't be sending usernames and passphrases to a system that's not managed by the Fedora Infrastructure team, right? 11:33
stickster i.e. it's not a problem with Zikula or anyone else in particular, more just a general best practice. 11:33
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itbegins sorry to be so late, caught up in traffic much worse than I expected 11:34
mmcgrath stickster: correct. 11:34
itbegins I've got no log, anything on the CMS you'd like me to answer? 11:34
mmcgrath Nothing against the zikula guys, just a policy we have is all. We generally have a test infrastructure up. 11:34
quaid itbegins: no worries; there'll be an IRC log afterward; ke4qqq just gave us a status of packaging and such for CMS 11:34
mmcgrath so we threw the test account system up so they can auth against that until we're on the publictest servers, but everything should be golden again when they change from authing against admin.fp.o to authing against pt15 is all. 11:35
mmcgrath we've done this before in the past. 11:35
mmcgrath itbegins: did you get my messages to fedora-docs about auth? 11:35
ke4qqq mmcgrath: will we have to revert the ssl cert verification changes? 11:35
* ke4qqq assumes so 11:35
ke4qqq at least for client 11:35
itbegins mmcgrath: Just read them, that's fine and perfectly understandable 11:35
mmcgrath ssl cert verification? 11:36
mmcgrath oh oh. 11:36
mmcgrath ke4qqq: yah, just for test though. Thats why they were there :) 11:36
ke4qqq ok - shouldn't be a problem 11:36
mmcgrath itbegins: kew, I'm around all afternoon if you need help with the account system. The one at publictest15 we can do whatever you want to with as far as creating and removing users and test groups. go nuts! 11:37
mmcgrath :) 11:37
ke4qqq should be fun to play with regardless 11:37
itbegins mmcgrath: I've pretty much got it working, the only thing I think remains is syncing with FAS groups. I plan to do that by creating groups with the same name in the CMS and just syncing on login 11:37
mmcgrath cool 11:37
itbegins There's also a fallback to the normal Zikula auth should FAS crash for any reason 11:38
mmcgrath itbegins: after the meeting come ping me in #fedora-admin and I'll make sure the group and your test account are all setup properly. 11:38
itbegins mmcgrath: Ok, thanks. I'd also like that chat about php config/security 11:39
mmcgrath sure thing 11:39
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itbegins Anything else people want to know about the CMS? 11:39
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quaid ok, we can move on then 11:41
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-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Relnotes update 11:42
quaid jjmcd who cannot see ... have anything to add? 11:42
jjmcd No, sounds good to me 11:42
* quaid knows Alpha notes are out, ryanlerch was looking at converting to DocBook but don't know if he wanted to follow through with publishing them 11:42
* ke4qqq thought he had publicanized them already 11:43
jjmcd ryanlerch would like to do a routine wiki->DocBook translation 11:43
quaid sure 11:43
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quaid but he just ran in to the very reason we stopped :) 11:43
ke4qqq which is? 11:43
quaid it's "done" but not published 11:43
ke4qqq ahhh ok 11:43
quaid is it in git? 11:43
quaid can I go publish it right now? 11:43
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quaid cf. the wiki which is there, done, published, let's move on-able 11:44
quaid we all just need to be aware that each of these does add complexity 11:44
stickster quaid: So what you're saying... 11:45
* jjmcd sees some regression test value in a routine build, esp. if automated 11:45
stickster is that we can publish on the wiki instantly, but... 11:45
* stickster scratches head. 11:45
quaid cannot yet on, yes 11:45
stickster Ah, right. 11:46
stickster So we can't just publish the Publican output HTML on 11:46
stickster Because... style sheets will be wrong? 11:46
quaid I was more drawing the lines between the dots to explain what wasn't so obvious to people, i.e., why we had moved to the wiki for Alpha/Beta notes in the past. 11:46
stickster Or is it because we're still converting things to PHP and stuff gets stripped in the back and forth? 11:46
quaid we can just publish them 11:46
quaid sorry, I'm not being obvious, am I? 11:47
itbegins stickster: Part of the stuff I'm getting done for the CMS is a pull-from-source-and-publish bash script 11:47
stickster quaid: No, and we should be. 11:47
quaid until the desire to Publicanize them came about, the task was done. 11:47
itbegins stickster: Which you'll be able to access through the CMS admin section. 11:47
quaid once that desire took hold, the task was undone and we still don't have notes published for Alpha. 11:47
quaid nor a method for e.g. Jesse to add last minute information and not have to wait 24 hours for all the people and pieces to align. 11:47
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jjmcd I gotta admit, I don't see the value for alpha 11:48
stickster Ah, there's the rub. If there's no change freeze in place significantly before release day, this gets almost impossible for someone. 11:48
quaid I get that we like the idea of prettier notes, but I think it's too late for Alpha, maybe do it for Beta. 11:48
jjmcd But I see enormous value in a routine, automatic DocBook version of what is currently in the wiki, so that when we finally do make the published version, there are no surprises. 11:49
stickster quaid: Then I would say we should add a task to the Docs schedule which is a one-sheet content freeze. 11:49
quaid but I'm not the hammer no more to say, "Forget about it," and I don't want to be discouraging where I see challenges due to myopia. 11:49
stickster (as well as a conversion and publication task for the Beta relnotes one-sheet) 11:49
stickster Sparks should probably address this, then. 11:50
quaid well ... if the release notes team thinks Publican-based notes are more important than up-to-date information and ease of publishing, then yes, they should do that. 11:50
quaid at some point, those converge and isn't an either/or anymore 11:50
quaid until then ... one has to reign. 11:50
stickster quaid: Just to be clear, I recall why we wanted to do this only for Preview and Final. 11:50
quaid yeah, we'll leave this for ryan and sparks to hash out. 11:51
jjmcd Right answer 11:51
quaid stickster: yeah, I know :) 11:51
stickster But having it out on the table openly is important so the new folks can weigh it too. 11:51
jjmcd I think ryanlerch envisions wiki->DocBook on the crontab, and if he can actually do that I think its great 11:52
jjmcd but for the one pagers, I personally don't see the point 11:52
quaid stickster: yeah, was trying to do that yesterday but didn't get there I reckon. 11:52
quaid ok, I've noted it in the summary 11:52
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Installation Guide status 11:53
quaid ke4qqq: have you begun to think about this? 11:53
ke4qqq ooh, me again 11:53
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ke4qqq yes - and I am delinquent in seeking help 11:53
quaid we can talk with jlaska/adamw about IG testing again 11:53
ke4qqq I need to put a call out for writers 11:53
ke4qqq it looks like eawest may not be able to join us this time since she is rapidly becoming great with child 11:54
stickster I always liked the term "gravid" 11:54
ke4qqq so I need to find an editor as well. 11:54
ke4qqq that or I'll be writing a lot and begging one of you to edit 11:55
ke4qqq oh, gravid is a great term 11:55
ke4qqq but we have a week or two to start writing 11:55
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ke4qqq I did change the owner in the owners list so stickster doesn't get besieged with tickets 11:56
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quaid yay 11:56
stickster w00t 11:56
ke4qqq I almost did the same for danielsmw and the ug, but wanted to make sure he had a bz account first 11:57
quaid ke4qqq: I'll be floating a bit more this time, so I'll be able to backfill. 11:57
* stickster notes mmcgrath looking for group name info on-list. Who's on the hook for that? 11:57
ke4qqq cool 11:57
ke4qqq we provided it in channel 11:57
stickster Oh sweet, I'm behind. That's always good. 11:57
stickster It means things are moving on well without me and I can, y'know, take a nap instead. 11:58
ke4qqq that's what fearless project leaders are supposed to do, no? 11:58
stickster That and eat peeled grapes, exactly. 11:58
jjmcd If you were napping then you wouldnt have anything to tweet about 11:58
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stickster At least, that's what I keep telling my wife. 11:58
quaid ok, we are about out of time 11:59
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quaid we'll do meeting time change on list 11:59
quaid the other guides ... well, how about discuss those on list, too 11:59
quaid anthing else in the waning minute? 11:59
* quaid moving so fast he's levng ltrs behnd 11:59
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* stickster +1 12:00
* stickster then moves to adjourn 12:00
quaid rock on 12:00
* quaid counts 12:00
quaid 5 12:00
quaid 4 12:00
quaid 3 12:00
quaid 2 12:00
quaid 1 12:00
quaid </meeting> 12:00

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