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| jjmcd | #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:03:02 <zodbot_> Meeting started Thu Sep 10 00:03:02 2009 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:03:02 <zodbot_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| jjmcd | two minutes - he's not gonna show | 00:03 |
| jjmcd | #topic Roll Call | 00:03 |
| * danielsmw | 00:03 | |
| * jjmcd is here | 00:03 | |
| * bcotton is here | 00:03 | |
| * rudi is here | 00:03 | |
| * jjmcd needs more windows to do this | 00:03 | |
| jjmcd | #topic Last week's action items | 00:04 |
| jjmcd | danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite - where are we? 00:04:46 <danielsmw> jjmcd: I surveyed what would work with scribite and what had what features and such | 00:04 |
| danielsmw | And I've decided on TinyMCE | 00:04 |
| * perspectival is here | 00:04 | |
| danielsmw | the problem I've run into is the lack of guidelines on javascript library packaging | 00:05 |
| danielsmw | And especially js built with ant | 00:05 |
| danielsmw | (which I didn't actually know was possible, who knew). | 00:05 |
| danielsmw | As a new packager, I don't think I can handle that sort of task by myself. | 00:05 |
| danielsmw | It's not a time thing, just a knowledge thing. | 00:05 |
| jjmcd | Well, somebody has to be able to help with js, but ant? You may be on your own 00:06:11 <danielsmw> So I can still do it, but I'd really appreciate if someone would be willing to sit down iwth me one day and do it. 00:06:28 <danielsmw> There are actually pretty okay ant guidelines under Packaging/Java | 00:06 |
| danielsmw | It's the mixture of the two that I don't understand. | 00:06 |
| jjmcd | Oh, OK. What about whoever wrote those guidelines? | 00:06 |
| danielsmw | I suppose I could ask them. The JS guidelines are still in draft, though. I'm not sure that there really even are guidelines, officially. 00:07:32 <danielsmw> Personally, it doesn't make sense to package javascript libraries. 00:07:38 <jjmcd> Perhaps having the background of writing the guidelines they will have the perspective to be able to guide you | 00:07 |
| danielsmw | But I don't understand the going ons of Zikula | 00:07 |
| danielsmw | and such. | 00:07 |
| danielsmw | That's probably at least a start, you're right. | 00:07 |
| jjmcd | Well, Zikula isn't sooo different from other web apps | 00:08 |
| danielsmw | Okay, then I'll do that this week and hopefully get somewhere by the weekend. | 00:08 |
| jjmcd | OK, I'll try to be around to offer what little I can | 00:08 |
| danielsmw | Thanks, jjmcd | 00:08 |
| jjmcd | Maybe mostly moral support | 00:08 |
| danielsmw | :-) | 00:08 |
| jjmcd | The other items are Sparks, quaid and ianweller, none of whom are here | 00:08 |
| jjmcd | ANything else on action items? | 00:09 |
| jjmcd | #topic Release notes format changes | 00:09 |
| jjmcd | OK, here I need some help | 00:10 |
| danielsmw | I can offer moral support. :-) | 00:10 |
| jjmcd | We talked about having all changes in tables, and only a little in the way of prose 00:10:48 <jjmcd> But there are a lot of apps that cross beats, and not all apps are covered by beats 00:11:11 <jjmcd> And oh yeah, Alpha was really lame, only about 20% of packages, so we don't really know what we have 00:11:30 <jjmcd> I am proposing to move the tables to the end, and organize them by rpm_group 00:11:50 <jjmcd> With an alphabetical index, people can find anything fairly easily 00:12:13 <jjmcd> Trouble is, it is big, but we don't really know for sure how big | 00:10 |
| jjmcd | Any thoughts on that approach? | 00:12 |
| * danielsmw likes alphabetical indexes. | 00:12 | |
| danielsmw | Does it matter if it's too big, really? | 00:13 |
| danielsmw | besides losing some style points? | 00:13 |
| danielsmw | that might be a dumb question, I'm not familiar with RN so much | 00:13 |
| jjmcd | I don't think so. We don't add a lot to translate | 00:13 |
| danielsmw | okay. | 00:13 |
| rudi | The other intrinsic problem is that the rpm groups don't always make much sense 00:14:51 <jjmcd> rudi, you got that right, but if I turn my head sideways, I can generally see how someone could imagine they belong the way they are 00:14:57 <danielsmw> that's true. lots of things belong in more than one category in reality, so the groups are occasionally confusing. | 00:14 |
| jjmcd | Which leads me to believe that no grouping is perfect | 00:15 |
| rudi | Indeed | 00:15 |
| jjmcd | Example tables/index in http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha 00:15:40 <danielsmw> Although grouping it my rpm may encourage packagers to more carefully consider the groups they use. | 00:15 |
| jjmcd | I was kind of thinking that, too | 00:15 |
| jjmcd | With the index you can find what you are looking for | 00:16 |
| rudi | Yeah -- it will be good if we can somehow apply some pressure in that direction | 00:16 |
| ryanlerch | and not create new groups | 00:16 |
| ryanlerch | or sub groups | 00:16 |
| jjmcd | Some are just stupid, like Applications/Games vs games | 00:16 |
| jjmcd | Why do you need both, pick one or the other | 00:16 |
| ryanlerch | from memory, the networking one was a bit crazy too | 00:17 |
| jjmcd | The list on fedorapeople is against rawhide. I expect F12 will be smaller than that, but we don't have a feel for how much smaller because alpha was so limited 00:18:23 <jjmcd> Yes, there are amateur radio apps in networking that have nothing to do with networking 00:19:02 <jjmcd> Also, there are some beats with a few minor changes, I think we need to drop them rather than adding fluff 00:20:15 <jjmcd> And I think we need to move embedded development out of development to the specialized group. It really goes with FEL 00:20:34 <jjmcd> even tho it has the word development. It doesn't fit with the rest | 00:17 |
| jjmcd | rudi, are you pretty much there on installer? | 00:21 |
| rudi | Well, I haven't got anything new :) | 00:21 |
| jjmcd | I think I may have put some placeholders in there but not turned it into real prose | 00:22 |
| rudi | I'll take another look | 00:22 |
| jjmcd | I did go through the feature pages and tried to spatter stuff through the beats | 00:22 |
| jjmcd | We were supposed to have the 'big' pots out yesterday | 00:23 |
| jjmcd | So I intend to do what I can tomorrow and Saturday and then try to make pots saturday or sunday. The beats are nowhere near where I'd like, but L10N is waiting on us | 00:24 |
| rudi | I'll pitch in to help with that | 00:25 |
| jjmcd | I appreciate that rudi | 00:25 |
| jjmcd | I'll be out of town Friday | 00:25 |
| rudi | NP | 00:25 |
| jjmcd | But except for a few interruptions, I'll be around otherwise 00:26:07 <jjmcd> The good news is we don't have to do all that po madness from 11 so it should be a little easier | 00:25 |
| jjmcd | although I should check with glezos on that | 00:26 |
| rudi | Yeah -- check. I'm assuming that we *will* have to do the po madness | 00:26 |
| jjmcd | #action jjmcd to check with glezos on po's | 00:26 |
| jjmcd | OK, anything else on release notes? | 00:27 |
| jjmcd | I'm surprised noriko didn't come over | 00:28 |
| jjmcd | We have no ke4qqq for Zikula so .... | 00:28 |
| jjmcd | #topic Status on CC license rollout | 00:28 |
| jjmcd | ANything new to report? | 00:28 |
| jjmcd | hearing nothing | 00:29 |
| jjmcd | #topic Guide needs? | 00:29 |
| danielsmw | I haz guide needs | 00:30 |
| jjmcd | Ahhhh, whatcha got? | 00:30 |
| rudi | I know -- I'm the blocker there | 00:30 |
| danielsmw | rudi: :-) | 00:30 |
| danielsmw | a little, rudi, but I can still write content | 00:30 |
| rudi | Yeppa | 00:30 |
| danielsmw | rudi: Did I send you an email about what sections I wanted to cover for F11? | 00:31 |
| danielsmw | I think I wrote it and may not have sent it | 00:31 |
| danielsmw | doesn't matter, anyway, the point is | 00:31 |
| rudi | I saw a link in IRC | 00:31 |
| danielsmw | okay, good | 00:31 |
| rudi | But you were offline by the time I read it -- I bookmarked it | 00:31 |
| danielsmw | do you still have the link by chance? | 00:31 |
| danielsmw | never mind, I got it | 00:32 |
| danielsmw | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Danielsmw/Desktop_Guide_tasks 00:32:41 <danielsmw> anyway, my proposal is just to work up through the first 5 chapters for F12 release. 00:32:48 <jjmcd> There is a lot of detail in the desktop beat that I wonder whether it belongs in the desktop guide | 00:32 |
| danielsmw | jjmcd: I will take a look and see if perhaps it does | 00:33 |
| jjmcd | thanks | 00:33 |
| danielsmw | anyway, if anyone has any comment on what I've chosen to be ready for F12, now's your chance I suppose. 00:34:27 <danielsmw> Okay, well, I'll put something out to the list, but that's all I have to say. 00:35:03 <danielsmw> except, rudi: I really don't want to pressure you at all, because it isn't a big deal, but do you have an estimate on when you'll be ready? | 00:33 |
| danielsmw | with the Xml skeleton? | 00:35 |
| jjmcd | Looks to me like a good triage | 00:35 |
| rudi | Still "RSN" -- next couple of days | 00:35 |
| danielsmw | okay, that's fine. | 00:35 |
| rudi | (although I know I said that two days ago!!) :) | 00:35 |
| danielsmw | :) | 00:35 |
| * danielsmw is done with his guide needs. | 00:36 | |
| jjmcd | OK, anything else on guide? | 00:36 |
| jjmcd | s/?/s? | 00:36 |
| danielsmw | ?? | 00:36 |
| jjmcd | <---- old PDP guy | 00:37 |
| * bcotton needs to actually work on the RPM guide, but doesnt require any external assistance at the moment (except maybe a cattle prod) 00:37:37 <danielsmw> jjmcd: yeah, i always get confused when regexs aren't closed on the end 00:37:47 <jjmcd> hehe - I think we all have that "the hurrier I go the behinder I get" syndrome 00:38:10 <jjmcd> danielsmw, I'm pretty ancient, esp. as this business is concerned. 00:38:35 <jjmcd> By the way, today is Dennis Ritchie's birthday, seems to me there should have been a lot more press about it | 00:37 | |
| jjmcd | #topic All other business | 00:38 |
| jjmcd | Anything else for the good of the order? | 00:39 |
| rudi | Anyone else here able to sponsor new package maintainers? | 00:39 |
| jjmcd | 5 | 00:39 |
| rudi | (I think ianweller can) | 00:39 |
| danielsmw | I need one, I'll have to ask ianweller. | 00:40 |
| jjmcd | lets all gang up on the missing ianweller | 00:40 |
| rudi | lolz | 00:40 |
| rudi | We need to get some new packagers sponsored who are going to look after Publican dependencies | 00:40 |
| jjmcd | Yes, I need to get my badge as well | 00:41 |
| rudi | That's a current blocker for Publican 1.0 and the new Fedora brand package for 0.44 | 00:41 |
| jjmcd | rudi, how can we find out about that sort of thing? | 00:41 |
| rudi | I raise it in a meeting? :) | 00:42 |
| jjmcd | Hey - I just got an email from mister K&R himself! | 00:42 |
| jjmcd | I suspected as much | 00:42 |
| jjmcd | It would be nice to be able to identify those things before they become painful | 00:43 |
| rudi | It only *just* became a blocker | 00:43 |
| jjmcd | K | 00:43 |
| rudi | (within the last couple of days) | 00:43 |
| rudi | But I didn't want to rush the sponsorship process either | 00:44 |
| rudi | It's important that we do things right. | 00:44 |
| rudi | But yeah, it's been a few days without any activity yet, so now I'm making noise :) 00:45:23 <jjmcd> Yes, I agree. Seems like there are things we could predict, though. After all, it isn't like we don't have computers and stuff. | 00:45 |
| jjmcd | OK, anything else? | 00:45 |
| jjmcd | 5 | 00:46 |
| jjmcd | 4 | 00:46 |
| jjmcd | 3 | 00:46 |
| jjmcd | 2 | 00:46 |
| jjmcd | 1 | 00:47 |
| jjmcd | #endmeeting | 00:47 |