Meeting:IRC Support SIG 2009-01-22

---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - Init process		Jan 22 09:30
nirik	hey all, who's around for the irc support sig meeting?	Jan 22 09:30
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*thomasj present		Jan 22 09:31
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Southern_Gentlem	here not not	Jan 22 09:31
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hpachas-PE	RodrigoPadula, hola	Jan 22 09:32
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*nirik will wait a minute or two more for folks to trickle in.		Jan 22 09:33
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*so_solid_moo will be here for this meeting too then :)		Jan 22 09:34
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nirik	humm... ok, I guess we can start in...	Jan 22 09:38
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - Classroom		Jan 22 09:38
nirik	we have some more classes coming up in feb...	Jan 22 09:38
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nirik	so if anyone wants to teach or knows someone who would, let me know.	Jan 22 09:39
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nirik	also, we should probibly start doing some advertising a week or so in advance.	Jan 22 09:39
herlo	ooh, we should advertise :)	Jan 22 09:39
*herlo will help with that...		Jan 22 09:39
nirik	yeah. ;) Anyhow, just thought I would mention it...	Jan 22 09:40
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nirik	herlo: we should meet up sometime and come up with advertising/brainstorming/sessions. ;)	Jan 22 09:40
nirik	anyhow, moving along...	Jan 22 09:41
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - hot topics		Jan 22 09:41
nirik	Another hairbrained Idea I have had. How about we try and come up with at the meeting each week the top 5 bugs we see lots of users hitting, and then post that list to the devel and/or testing lists.	Jan 22 09:42
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nirik	anyone think thats a good idea? bad one?	Jan 22 09:43
thomasj	Hmm.. not a bad one.	Jan 22 09:43
nirik	ie, give developers more info on what bugs users are hitting in the last week (at least from a biased sample of irc users)	Jan 22 09:44
vwbusguy	we should do more to encourage end users to bugzilla themselves	Jan 22 09:45
vwbusguy	it really is a better scenario if the end users who are themselves experiencing the problem are involved in the bug process	Jan 22 09:45
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so_solid_moo	bugzilla isn't a particularly nice tool to use though	Jan 22 09:45
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nirik	sure, but I am saying things like the intel video lockup bug, or the no sound for some intel-hda sound cards in a particular kernel.	Jan 22 09:46
vwbusguy	so_solid_moo, that is something beyond our scope	Jan 22 09:46
vwbusguy	nirik, both of those have very long CC lists on the bugs as well	Jan 22 09:46
nirik	not sure it's really that usefull... but just an idea.	Jan 22 09:46
thomasj	nirik, you think that would fix the bugs faster? ;)	Jan 22 09:46
nirik	agreed. It would be more usefull for something thats just coming up and starting to happen.	Jan 22 09:46
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so_solid_moo	vwbusguy, sure, but I'm thinking that trying to expose people to more bz might just frustrate them	Jan 22 09:48
thomasj	Makes them part of the community. Not just user.	Jan 22 09:49
nirik	alternately, we could look at the list of common bugs we are seeing a lot over a week and see if any could be added to common bugs.	Jan 22 09:49
thomasj	+1	Jan 22 09:49
nirik	that might have more positive impact.	Jan 22 09:51
nirik	so, what are the hot issues people have been seeing this week?	Jan 22 09:51
thomasj	still snd-hda-intel	Jan 22 09:52
thomasj	aka, alsa	Jan 22 09:53
nirik	yeah, the intel video lockup I have seen a few times...	Jan 22 09:53
nirik	anyhow, just an idea... I guess you all can ponder on it and we can try next week?	Jan 22 09:54
thomasj	else some smaller issues, like the rpmdb gets corrupted in F10 more often than in prior releases.	Jan 22 09:54
thomasj	dunno why.	Jan 22 09:54
thomasj	sure we can ponder on it.	Jan 22 09:55
nirik	there was an issue with ext4 and rpmdb...	Jan 22 09:55
nirik	anyhow, thought I would throw it out there.	Jan 22 09:56
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nirik	ok, moving on...	Jan 22 09:57
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---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - getting people involved		Jan 22 09:57
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nirik	I think one of the areas we could improve on is pointing people to resouces for getting involved...	Jan 22 09:58
nirik	ie, if someone suggests something, or an improvement, point them to the join page or the subproject sig where that change would be made.	Jan 22 09:58
thomasj	The wiki has a main page for "getting involved"? Maybe we can add it to /topic	Jan 22 09:59
nirik	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join	Jan 22 09:59
thomasj	We tell people already to step up, but all are end user :)	Jan 22 09:59
thomasj	ok	Jan 22 09:59
nirik	yeah, but some of those people could really help out and provide something great to the project. You never know...	Jan 22 10:00
nirik	we should help them go to the right place to help...	Jan 22 10:01
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thomasj	Done with /topic	Jan 22 10:02
nirik	ok, anyone else want to chime in on this? or are thomasj and I the only ones here? :)	Jan 22 10:03
thomasj	looks like :D	Jan 22 10:03
Southern_Gentlem	i have been thinking about doing a jigdo classroom but i dont want to do it at midnite	Jan 22 10:03
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - state of the channel		Jan 22 10:03
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nirik	Southern_Gentlem: sign up for one down the road? there are a few more months listed on the page.	Jan 22 10:04
nirik	anyhow, on to a state of the channel... how are we doing?	Jan 22 10:05
Southern_Gentlem	i think we are doing a great job	Jan 22 10:05
nirik	I have had some feedback this week with someone who was saying the channel is as bad as it ever was. I disagree, but we should work harder...	Jan 22 10:05
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Southern_Gentlem	bad in what way	Jan 22 10:06
nirik	let me go look... just a sec.	Jan 22 10:06
nirik	saying the ops are pushing people around and banning/kicking for minor issues.	Jan 22 10:08
Southern_Gentlem	i disagree	Jan 22 10:08
nirik	excessive control of language.	Jan 22 10:08
Southern_Gentlem	i only kick for the f word	Jan 22 10:09
*Southern_Gentlem reminds offender Be polite and avoid profanity someone's kids and their grandmother might be in here listening		Jan 22 10:09
nirik	I don't think so either, but I wanted to bring it up here and note that for some people at least we still need to improve.	Jan 22 10:09
Southern_Gentlem	excessive control of language because khay banned perlsyntax for repeatedly curseing like a sailor	Jan 22 10:10
thomasj	hmm.. end user (some people)?	Jan 22 10:10
Southern_Gentlem	and i think the channel is doing a good job of self policeing itself lately	Jan 22 10:10
nirik	anyhow, I think the biggest thing we can do is be professional, and follow our rules. If our rules need changing we should do so at that level	Jan 22 10:11
thomasj	I can only speak for what i do. And the only thing i did wrong was kicking DavidFreeman once.	Jan 22 10:11
vwbusguy	I remember that	Jan 22 10:11
thomasj	And i apologized for it later in ops.	Jan 22 10:11
Southern_Gentlem	thomasj, he does come across as little tto strong at times	Jan 22 10:11
nirik	everyone makes mistakes... ;)	Jan 22 10:11
vwbusguy	yeah, in hindsight I do think he was a troll	Jan 22 10:11
Southern_Gentlem	thomasj, and he has a redhat mask?	Jan 22 10:12
thomasj	i had him perm banned and did unban him accidentially.	Jan 22 10:12
thomasj	thomasj, nope	Jan 22 10:12
thomasj	args	Jan 22 10:12
nirik	I think we should also not be quick to label people trolls... sure there are some, but kicking them at the drop of a hat means you will be kicking people who are not really trolls and need help	Jan 22 10:12
thomasj	Southern_Gentlem, nope	Jan 22 10:12
vwbusguy	nirik, generally I think we've been good about it	Jan 22 10:13
Southern_Gentlem	thomasj, well he was in last nite and was behaving himself to its all good	Jan 22 10:13
nirik	anyhow, overall I think we are doing ok. :) We could use more helpers, but thats always the case.	Jan 22 10:13
vwbusguy	giving people a few chances first	Jan 22 10:13
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*vwbusguy could use more helpers and customers in #Fedora-EOL		Jan 22 10:13
Southern_Gentlem	i have been warning people	Jan 22 10:13
vwbusguy	although customers has been picking up a _little_ more	Jan 22 10:13
nirik	vwbusguy: hows that going?	Jan 22 10:14
Southern_Gentlem	lol	Jan 22 10:14
vwbusguy	only troll is X, haha	Jan 22 10:14
thomasj	lol	Jan 22 10:14
thomasj	true	Jan 22 10:14
vwbusguy	nirik, about as well as expected,	Jan 22 10:14
Southern_Gentlem	i am hoping by the end of the month that a f10 re-spin will help stip your traffic even more	Jan 22 10:14
vwbusguy	I did find some old legacy mirrors still up	Jan 22 10:14
vwbusguy	and archive.fp.o is still up	Jan 22 10:14
vwbusguy	and FreshRPMs still has repos up for old versions	Jan 22 10:14
thomasj	Southern_Gentlem, we're waiting for a new kernel? Fixing the sound issue?	Jan 22 10:15
vwbusguy	a few stupid questions "Can I get KDE 4.1 in old version X?"	Jan 22 10:15
thomasj	s/we/you/	Jan 22 10:15
Southern_Gentlem	thomasj, yep	Jan 22 10:15
thomasj	good	Jan 22 10:15
nirik	Southern_Gentlem: came out last night I think. ;)	Jan 22 10:15
Southern_Gentlem	not that i have seen	Jan 22 10:15
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nirik	well, it was approved to push last night. No idea if a push has been done with it yet.	Jan 22 10:16
nirik	anyhow, anything folks want to bring up before we close?	Jan 22 10:16
---nirik has changed the topic to: IRC Support SIG - Open Floor		Jan 22 10:16
Southern_Gentlem	not pushed	Jan 22 10:17
nirik	http://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/kernel-2.6.27.12-170.2.5.fc10	Jan 22 10:17
Southern_Gentlem	my f10 test still shows 159	Jan 22 10:17
Southern_Gentlem	in updates	Jan 22 10:18
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nirik	ok, will close the meeting in 60	Jan 22 10:19
nirik	ok, thanks for coming folks.	Jan 22 10:20

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