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| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting (1500UTC) | <a href="#t10:03" class="time">10:03</a> | |
| wwoods | rdieter, nirik, mether, rmw, Lovechild: ping | <a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a> |
|---|---|---|
| wwoods | and f13 / jeremy / other multi-diciplinary folks: also ping | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> |
| rdieter | here (kinda sorta) | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> |
| f13 | yo | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> |
| wwoods | rdieter: cool | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Schedule changes for F9 | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> | |
| wwoods | So yes - I'm writing an email to fedora-test-list about the proposed changes | <a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a> |
| wwoods | to make sure everyone's aware (there was brief mention of it last month but I still hear references to "test1" etc) | <a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a> |
| wwoods | Is everyone aware of / cool with the propose changes/schedule? | <a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a> |
| wwoods | those are <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/DevelopmentChangesProposal">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/DevelopmentChangesProposal</a> | <a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a> |
| wwoods | and <a href="http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9-tasks-overview.html">http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9-tasks-overview.html</a> | <a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a> |
| wwoods | the only thing I've found that I'm still unsure about is that the Alpha release is still two months after Final | <a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: the Alpha was an idea to have /something/ that is known to at least be installable as a jump off point for the development cycle. | <a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a> |
| wwoods | right | <a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a> |
| f13 | but we don't care much about other than it installing and getting updates afterward, so we're not doing a blocking freeze for it. it's just a named snapshot | <a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a> |
| f13 | (with a little extra time to make sure it happens) | <a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a> |
| wwoods | like I said, in the past we've gottin (deserved) bad press for putting out a half-baked release that lacks most of the stuff promised | <a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a> |
| wwoods | I think calling it "Alpha" and increasing awareness that test releases are just rawhide snapshots is good | <a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a> |
| wwoods | but also - sanity check - there's more time for rawhide development now than in previous cycles, right? | <a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a> |
| f13 | yes | <a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a> |
| f13 | there is no blocking freeze for test1, that adds a week~ there | <a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a> |
| wwoods | now that we're doing the early branching and such the devs actually get some time before F8 final to work on stuff | <a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a> |
| f13 | plus add to that the amount of time we early branched and branched during F8 that added a month~ | <a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, that's reasonable. I do think we're already seeing serious progress in f9 rawhide | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| wwoods | a lot moreso than previous ones | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| wwoods | as long as we believe that to be the intended effect of process changes and not just a happy fluke | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| rdieter | folks realize they can't wait (me included). :) | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| wwoods | then I'm happy relying on that | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| f13 | yeah | <a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a> |
| f13 | I do want to better deal with a month+ of buildup for that first rawhide build. | <a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a> |
| f13 | eventually I want to get to the piont where during teh final freeze, we're composing the release tree to a different location, and letting Rawhide continue on to the next release. | <a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a> |
| wwoods | my only other comment about the schedule: I'm gonna be doing family stuff the week of PR1, so I need someone to take the bug-herding hat while I'm gone | <a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a> |
| wwoods | f13: that would be totally sweet. | <a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a> |
| f13 | We'll use mirror manager to do some fun redirects for us to try and capture most people for release testing, you'd have to opt-out and into Rawhide again to get those bits. | <a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: I don't think we can realistically get there for 9, but maybe !10 | <a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a> |
| wwoods | so we're planning on doing the repo shuffle to pin rawhide to the final release again? | <a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a> |
| wwoods | (I liked that a lot) | <a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a> |
| f13 | yes, I liked that too | <a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a> |
| f13 | we'll better plan it to avoid zomg no signed packages. | <a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a> |
| wwoods | can you make sure that gets on the schedule and do an announcement so people know when it's coming | <a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a> |
| f13 | yes | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, exactly | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| wwoods | any other comments about the schedule changes? one less test release to test, yay | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| f13 | well, if we have a signing server and are automatically signing things with a key, that should take care of itself. | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| f13 | they'll at least have /a/ key. | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| wwoods | rdieter: when is kde4 stuff landing? in time for F9Alpha? | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: I'm pretty sure you're going to have one less arch to care about. | <a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: but the tradeoff looks to be one more install method. | <a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a> |
| rdieter | wwoods: we're about 35% there roughly now, should get most of it in by then (cross fingers) | <a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | here's hopin' | <a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | some QA-specific stuff to discuss | <a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | I don't think we're gonna create bugzilla versions for alpha/beta | <a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a> |
| wwoods | the reasoning is: Test Releases Are Rawhide Snapshots | <a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a> |
| f13 | srsly? | <a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a> |
| f13 | are we going to remove all the existing ones? | <a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a> |
| wwoods | so report your dang bugs against 'rawhide' | <a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a> |
| wwoods | I'd like to, yes | <a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a> |
| wwoods | but I may be a bit overzealous here | <a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a> |
| f13 | I'm on board if we remove the existing ones, otherwise we're just going to get a bunch of misfires. | <a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a> |
| f13 | (and people filing bugs about there being no version to file bugs against) | <a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a> |
| wwoods | I'm amazed at how many bugs we get filed against 'f6test3' still | <a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a> |
| wwoods | seriously? f6test3? | <a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a> |
| * wwoods shakes head | <a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a> | |
| * poelcat +1 to removing all the unneeded versions | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> | |
| f13 | wwoods: actually I think by some twist of fuckness, a brand new bugzilla user creating a new bug for Fedora gets f6test3 as the default version :/ | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | f13: I think you're right | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | but I don't know why | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: we really need to make sure that brand new users get the right version, but I don't know how to fix that | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | I'll follow up with dkl about that | <a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a> |
| wwoods | probably assume (latest stable) unless their browser tells us otherwise | <a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a> |
| wwoods | further about rawhide: I've proposed changing the 'devel' version to 'rawhide' | <a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a> |
| wwoods | which I think is only sensible | <a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: are you going to talk to him about removing the extra versions too? I don't mind working with dkl to merge everything | <a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a> |
| wwoods | but there's a further proposal which suggests that we name releases at the *start* of the cycle and use that name instead of "rawhide" | <a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: I don't think that should effect bugzilla | <a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a> |
| wwoods | so we'd call it "werewolf" as a codename up until release, and then the name would change to F8 | <a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: the only reasonable rational I heard for naming early was so that artwork and such can be made to fit before deadlines. | <a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a> |
| wwoods | right, it just makes it a little confusing as there'd be no "werewolf" version in bz | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> |
| rdieter | and marketing... | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> |
| f13 | we may also use the codename as the pre-release staging directory as well. | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> |
| poelcat | but then you have to keep monkeying with bugzilla | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> |
| wwoods | well, it helps with marketing/branding as well | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> |
| f13 | but I'm still very much in the 'file it against Rawhide' camp. | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> |
| poelcat | couldn't the bugzilla start page help this? | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> |
| poelcat | or is that project dead? | <a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a> |
| rdieter | maybe use bz label something like f8-werewolf ? then, no renaming is required. | <a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a> |
| wwoods | well, we want to avoid the ambiguity of having "f8" and "f8-werewolf" | <a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a> |
| rdieter | ok | <a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a> |
| wwoods | it's possible we could segment off rawhide this way | <a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a> |
| wwoods | have rawhide (moonshine), rawhide (werewolf), ... | <a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a> |
| f13 | eeew | <a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a> |
| wwoods | but.. yeah | <a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: bugzilla start page is still a good idea - we even have bugz.fedoraproject.org | <a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a> |
| wwoods | which, while having a silly name, has useful redirects | <a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a> |
| wwoods | e.g. try <a href="http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/yelp">http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/yelp</a> | <a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a> |
| rdieter | kewl | <a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a> |
| wwoods | so having a front page on that site (rather than having it redirect straight to regular bz) could be useful | <a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a> |
| Lovechild | oh that will come in handy.. still not optimal but way better than what I do currently | <a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a> |
| wwoods | that also gives you links to the bodhi/koji/pkgdb pages for that package | <a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a> |
| wwoods | it's pretty nice | <a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a> |
| wwoods | heh | <a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a> |
| wwoods | anyway I think probably playing silly games with bugzilla versions and rawhide is not the most useful thing | <a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a> |
| wwoods | more useful would just be spending more time triaging and recruiting/training more triagers | <a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: i'll file a ticket with dkl's group to merge all the versions and change devel to rawhide... posting to fedora-devel first | <a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: awesome, that'd be great. thank you. | <a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a> |
| * poelcat was also wondering if we should put some bug days on the schedule | <a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a> | |
| rdieter | yes! | <a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a> |
| poelcat | plan them in advance | <a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a> |
| wwoods | oh sure! | <a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a> |
| wwoods | what day of the week would be best? | <a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a> |
| poelcat | which would give us incentive to clean up bugzilla, get start page tweaked, and other howto file bugs docs cleaned up | <a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a> |
| Lovechild | sounds way to sane.. everyone knows that frantically crying in the last minute is a far superior plan | <a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a> |
| wwoods | and who can cover .eu / .au | <a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a> |
| wwoods | by the way, the F8-thisweek bug link is in the topic for #fedora-qa: <a href="http://rdr.to/gc">http://rdr.to/gc</a> | <a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a> |
| Lovechild | I'm .eu citizen, I guess that means I volunteer | <a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a> |
| rdieter | frantic_crying: +1 :) | <a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a> |
| wwoods | (407 new bugs on F8 this week.. weeeeee) | <a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a> |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Bug Days | <a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a> | |
| rdieter | spin: more users -> more feedback/bugs. yay | <a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a> |
| wwoods | indeed! | <a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a> |
| Lovechild | yeah could be worse... could be zero bugs | <a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a> |
| poelcat | fridays? | <a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a> |
| wwoods | a lot of these bugs are simple things - nvidia (CLOSED CANTFIX), stuff on the CommonBugs page | <a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a> |
| wwoods | bad CD burns, etc | <a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a> |
| poelcat | not ever friday, but is friday a good day? | <a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a> |
| wwoods | Friday's OK with me | <a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a> |
| poelcat | how about first one on 30-NOV ? | <a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a> |
| wwoods | I should do some metrics on bug reporting and figure out whether people do them over the weekend or during the week more | <a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a> |
| wwoods | I should *also* figure out a way to keep score on bug triaging etc. like GNOME does | <a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a> |
| f13 | Since we do snapshot releases on Fridays, do you want to do them on Monday? | <a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a> |
| wwoods | f13: that's sensible | <a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a> |
| poelcat | then we smack down the easy stuff right away | <a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a> |
| f13 | gives people a chance to pick up the latest snapshot over the weekend and verify | <a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a> |
| Lovechild | f13: that seems like a good idea, give people the weekend to download and burn the snapshot - if they hit bad bugs we are there to triage on mondays | <a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, my gut feeling is that bug reporting goes up on the weekends (and triaging goes down) | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| poelcat | on the other hand friday i could pay more attention than on friday | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| poelcat | than on monday | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| wwoods | so Monday makes some sense | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| Lovechild | unless you want to dedicate your weekend to Fedora as well :) | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| poelcat | both sounds interesting, but probably too ambitious | <a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a> |
| wwoods | let's start with Mondays | <a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a> |
| wwoods | and if it really starts to pick up steam we can talk about adding Friday | <a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a> |
| Lovechild | maybe this needs a nice little page telling people to download the snapshot over the weekend and please join us on IRC monday? | <a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a> |
| wwoods | bug triage is an art, but it can be taught.. we need to create some teaching tools and stuff | <a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a> |
| * poelcat votes for starting on 19-NOV | <a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a> | |
| lmacken | wwoods: bugday! | <a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: all we need is wiki pages to start | <a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: indeed | <a href="#t10:36" class="time">10:36</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: if you can send me the existing page URLs I'll include with my post about changing the versions in bz | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| Lovechild | and a nice call for help on -test | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| poelcat | and announce bug day at the same time | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: existing pages for what, triage stuff? there's bugzapper stuff in the wiki | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| wwoods | long-untouched | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| * wwoods sad about that, but making amends | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> | |
| wwoods | Lovechild: definitely | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: whatever makes sense to point people to in order to get started with bug triage... read up in advance | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| wwoods | okay, quick vote: Bug Days on Mondays, starting 19-nov-2007 | <a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a> |
| f13 | +1 | <a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a> |
| lmacken | +1 | <a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a> |
| rdieter | +1 | <a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a> |
| Lovechild | +1 | <a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a> |
| * wwoods +1, obvy | <a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a> | |
| wwoods | okay, if no one is opposed..? | <a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a> |
| poelcat | +1 | <a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a> |
| wwoods | decided: Bug Days on Mondays, starting 19-nov-2007 | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| lmacken | I think the coolest part about our last big bug day was that we had incentives/prizes | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers</a> is a good place to start | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| wwoods | lmacken: which one was that? | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| Lovechild | lmacken: bribing people.. excellent idea | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| lmacken | The first one I think? Jack put it on. | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| lmacken | 2 years ago | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: what IRC channel will we hold it in? | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| wwoods | But how did you measure performance? | <a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: #fedora-qa, I think | <a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a> |
| lmacken | bz activity :) | <a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a> |
| lmacken | I just pinged jack to try and get more details | <a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a> |
| lmacken | hopefully we can get him on board with it again | <a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, I'm curious about how you weight scoring for closing bugs vs. reassigning things to the proper places vs. other triaging stuff | <a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a> |
| wwoods | I'd love to have an automated system watching that stuff and keeping score | <a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a> |
| wwoods | once we get pretty good at keeping score we can start giving prizes | <a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a> |
| wwoods | but then you have incentive for people to game the system and blecch | <a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a> |
| wwoods | anyway, I'd rather have that problem to worry about than the "nobody triages bugs and everything sucks" problem | <a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a> |
| wwoods | oh, quick diversion | <a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a> |
| Lovechild | well I suspect it will be easy to just make a decision as to bug zapper of the week manually for the first while | <a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a> |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | fedora-qa-list | <a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a> | |
| wwoods | Lovechild: ooh, good point | <a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a> |
| Lovechild | all this statistics crap is likely overkill for the first long time | <a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a> |
| wwoods | I'm proposing (officially) that we close fedora-qa-list and move qa discussion to -test-list or -devel-list as appropriate | <a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a> |
| wwoods | the spam:post ratio for -qa-list is something like 15:1 | <a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a> |
| * wwoods filters all the spam. it ain't pretty | <a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a> | |
| lmacken | I think we should kill the test update notifications as well.. or at least throw them somewhere other than test-list | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| poelcat | lmacken: +1 | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| lmacken | I'm planning on teaching bodhi about RSS feeds this week | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, agreed | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| Lovechild | we can reopen the list if it's grows or the qa stuff drowns on the other lists? | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | Lovechild: absolutely | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | mostly it would just save me some maintenance/admin time | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: can you simply disable it so it can be brought back if desired? | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| Lovechild | I'm some what worried about the trade off in terms of requiring qa people to read high volume lists | <a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: that's a good thought, I'll look into that | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | well, I think qa people should definitely be on -test-list | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | -devel-list is optional IMHO | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | if we can get the notifications off -test-list that would be even better | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| Lovechild | I'm on both and keeping on top of it all is rather a big task | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | Lovechild: agreed | <a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a> |
| wwoods | I skim the headers now and then but I generally don't read them in detail | <a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a> |
| wwoods | FWN is a great help in this regard | <a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a> |
| Lovechild | I imagine people with less time to waste than me would be dissuaded from doing QA by it | <a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a> |
| f13 | oh yeah, does anybody think having testing update notifications go to test-list is a good idea? | <a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a> |
| wwoods | Lovechild: do you think it would be reasonable if you were just on -test-list and the automatic notifications were moved? | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| f13 | I think we can get them fed oout via rss instead. | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| lmacken | RSS + anonymous feedback in bodhi | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| wwoods | f13: I think having them go *somewhere* is a good idea, but -test-list isn't the place | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| poelcat | send them to fedora-qa-list | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| poelcat | ;-) | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| wwoods | ha | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| wwoods | yeah maybe I'll lock it down so only automated stuff can mail -qa-list | <a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a> |
| Lovechild | the update messages really should go on -test so people can easily comment on them.. not that they seem to do so. | <a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a> |
| wwoods | and we can move the notifications there | <a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a> |
| Lovechild | but it's probably no worse than asking people to subscribe to a second mailing list.. using -test and -devel does have the upside of having greater visibility | <a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, I think the update notifications are just noise | <a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a> |
| wwoods | esp. if we have anonymous commenting in bodhi | <a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a> |
| f13 | yeah, I think the feedback needs to be done in bodhi, not the list | <a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a> |
| lmacken | update feedback in bodhi, bugs in bugzilla.. then what is left for test-list? questions? | <a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a> |
| wwoods | questions, discussion, planning | <a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a> |
| lmacken | ah gotcha.. yeah, esp if qa-list is going away | <a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a> |
| Lovechild | I like -test for early warning, basic bug confirmation | <a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a> |
| wwoods | the *useful* stuff that goes on in -test-list these days | <a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a> |
| wwoods | yeah | <a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a> |
| wwoods | it's a good place for testers to be like "have you guys seen this?" | <a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a> |
| wwoods | a future feature for triaging is going to be adding tags to the whiteboard field | <a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a> |
| wwoods | so we can have an auto-updated page of Current Hot Bugs / Common Dupes / etc | <a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a> |
| Lovechild | also having a list keeps the social aspect of QA intact which is always nice | <a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, the social aspect is important | <a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a> |
| wwoods | so, yes, we'll keep -test-list as the qa discussion group | <a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a> |
| Lovechild | I mean I wouldn't be doing QA if it wasn't fun and wwoods didn't boost my massively inflated ego occasionally | <a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a> |
| wwoods | move update notifications to -qa-list or drop entirely? | <a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a> |
| lmacken | +1 for dropping | <a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a> |
| Lovechild | couldn't they be just an rss feed - seems more like the thing to do, encourage mildly couragous testers to run with updates-testing enabled | <a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a> |
| wwoods | Lovechild: oh, there's no question about the RSS feed | <a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a> |
| lmacken | RSS and bodhi --testable / bodhi -s testing should suffice | <a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a> |
| wwoods | maybe we'll drop the update notifications when we get RSS support in bodhi? | <a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a> |
| lmacken | sounds good | <a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a> |
| lmacken | I'm planning to do that hopefully today or tomorrow | <a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a> |
| lmacken | along with making it public | <a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a> |
| wwoods | making bodhi public? rad. how long 'til anon commenting? or.. actually I guess we don't *need* that immediately | <a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a> |
| wwoods | what group(s) do you need to be in to comment in bodhi? | <a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a> |
| lmacken | there's a TurboGears captcha widget that i'm going to try and use | <a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a> |
| wwoods | that'd be a good way of tracking who's in QA | <a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a> |
| wwoods | ah nice | <a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, allowing anon commentary would be very good | <a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a> |
| lmacken | and bodhi keeps people in the loop as well.. if you've commented on an update, you'll be notified of all other comments/changes | <a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a> |
| wwoods | okay, so: shut -qa-list and stop update notifications on -test-list once we have RSS support in bodhi | <a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: sounds like a great Trac ticket set 9: | <a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a> |
| f13 | (: | <a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: we have a rel-eng Trac now, filing a ticket for making those things happen (minus the email list shut down) would be awesome. | <a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a> |
| wwoods | cool, will do | <a href="#t10:58" class="time">10:58</a> |
| wwoods | Oh! crud. I'm out of town next week - grandmother's memorial / thanksgiving | <a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a> |
| wwoods | so I won't be around Monday for Bug Day | <a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a> |
| Lovechild | I'm sure we can cover for you | <a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: i'll be around | <a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a> |
| wwoods | awesome | <a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a> |
| wwoods | I'll try to pop in if I get some internets but it's not likely | <a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a> |
| wwoods | okay. anything else? | <a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a> |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Open Floor | <a href="#t11:00" class="time">11:00</a> | |
| lmacken | <a href="https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/wiki/CLI#Viewingwhattestingupdatesyouhaveinstalled">https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/bodhi/wiki/CLI#Viewingwhattestingupdatesyouhaveinstalled</a> | <a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a> |
| lmacken | we should encourage people to use it! :) | <a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a> |
| wwoods | Okay then! I'm gonna mail -test-list about development changes and Bug Day, and file a ticket about killing notifications on -test-list | <a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a> |
| lmacken | easy way to see what you could be testing, and provide useful information to us | <a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat was going to talk to dkl about getting rid of Fntestn versions | <a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a> |
| wwoods | (and we're not gonna use 'em in the future) | <a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a> |
| wwoods | bug days are Mondays, starting Nov. 19 | <a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a> |
| wwoods | we're closing -qa-list | <a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a> |
| wwoods | I think that's all the decisions we made? | <a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: fwiw I think you need to run your bugzilla changes through FESCo | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| wwoods | oh, and I guess we're officially endorsing the proposed changes? | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| wwoods | f13: okay then | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| poelcat | i think periodic bug days, but not every monday | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| Lovechild | indeed.. oh and can we finally get that ics calendar for qa activity? | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| poelcat | Lovechild: yes, I can do those in taskjuggler | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| poelcat | but I need items for the schedule :) | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| wwoods | I think I had a google calendar at some point | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: meetings on Wednesdays at 1500UTC, Bug Days.. let's say every other Monday, for now? | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> |
| poelcat | Lovechild: <a href="http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9.ics">http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f9.ics</a> | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: i was thinking announce one at a time to create some buzz | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> |
| wwoods | and then there's things like freezes and snapshot releases | <a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a> |
| wwoods | poelcat: nice. yeah, let's do that. | <a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a> |
| wwoods | Okay then, I don't want to take any more of your time, so.. thanks folks! | <a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a> |
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