QA/Meetings/20071128

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<tr id="t10:04"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | init</td><td><a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath wonders if this is related to the other outages going on.  Investigating.</td><td><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:06"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods begins the log</td><td><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay. I don't have a big agenda to get through today</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I've been working on rewriting the QA pages on the wiki to help people get started in QA</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(unfortunately, no wiki right now, so you'll have to take my word for it)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I believe you</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> ricky</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I got to it, just really slowly.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I've also been talking with Len DiMaggio about QA plans for Fedora - he's got decades of experience in the industry with this stuff so it's good to see what he thinks of our efforts</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(<a href="http://swqetesting.blogspot.com/">http://swqetesting.blogspot.com/</a>)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway, quick roll call: Lovechild, f13, mether, rdieter, nirik, mkanat: who's here?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I am.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I am</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Kind of randomly, really. :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">heh!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: wonk.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Lovechild: I finally put links to the Fedora QA schedule on the QA page</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(see near the bottom, under Regular Meetings)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">in theory we had a Bug Day on Monday the 19th. did that happen?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">no</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mether: ah well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Well. I have another one scheduled for Monday the 3rd</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(it's even on the calendar)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'd like to go through some new F8 bugs, but there's a lot. probably we should choose a couple of subsystems</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sound and kernel, for instance</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Anyway, I'll post to test-list after this about it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyone who has a suggestion for things to examine can speak up there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">is there important bugs filed against Fedora 8 that we should look at?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">that requires triaging</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">There's nothing I know of that's not on Bugs/F8Common</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">which is some of the point of bug days</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">In a number of systems, it seems firstboot doesnt show up but I havent seen any specific bug reports on that for instance</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but.. yes, f13's got it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">mether: Yes, I filed the bug that's probably the source of most of that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">mkanat: great. whats the bug number?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">mether: I'll go find it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I will add that to the common bugs list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mkanat wishes bugzilla.redhat.com was new enough that buggbot could query it.</td><td><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">fwiw, I triaged a whole bunch of kde bugs on the 19th, resulting in closing a  whole slew of ancient bugs, and marking many newer ones NEEDINFO.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">bug 364951</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> buggbot</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">Bug <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=364951">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=364951</a> high, high, ---, Chris Lumens, ASSIGNED , firstboot doesn't start if network connection fails</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">interesting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">i have seen atleast a dozen different posts</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">and a few people in my office have hit this bug</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">It's most likely that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">very likely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">ironically, I spend more time in this release checking out how yum upgrade works and didnt test Anaconda much</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Heh. :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Well, I have to say, yum upgrade worked really well for me, so... :-D</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">for what it's worth, here - I just zoned out for a bit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">mkanat: yes. I think it has worked pretty well this release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">wwoods: there was some discussions in fedora-devel list about testing anaconda</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">wwoods: in the context of the upgrade problems (actually a yum issue)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">mether: Yeah. :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mether: yeah, I saw that there was a discussion but didn't read it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I thought SNAKE was going to be our savior on anaconda issues</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">Lovechild: it was Kate before. I dont know if SNAKE is any better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">has anyone worked with it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">unfortunately snake only helps when we have good inputs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">like package lists</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">really what would help more than anything is getting more and more people to test upgrades during the development cycle.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">unless we knew in advance what package sets to try, we wouldn't have hit this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat is here</td><td><a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">if we had better utilities to say snapshot your system, attempt an upgrade, note failures, restore to old snapshot this would be much more compelling</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">We can do some of that with virt, but...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">mether: we attempted to have a bug day... a few people stopped by</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I think the release criteria should include testing without a network connection</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">the real value is in testing this stuff on people's day to day machines.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mether: feel free to add it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mether: that's reasonable.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">poelcat: yes we *attempted*. It didnt really happen</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">not blaming anyone. it just didnt</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13: that sounds like a compelling idea, some kind of tool to build an image pre update would seem to be a good idea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">Lovechild: we need such tools anyway, and the ability to restore to said image outside the system (shoudl the system become hosed) from like a rescue kit.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">Lovechild: the OS X time machine stuff is extremely neat</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13: could we build it into the rescue cd, it would be a simple boot - the only problem is really restoring the system.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:26"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods bought a mac mini this week, didn't get Leopard on it (!@%!@##&)</td><td><a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there's vestigial snapshot/rollback support stuff in yum and rpm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: take it back!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">so what we really need is a filesystem that natively supports that kind of snapshotting such as btrfs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: we want it outside rpm/yum</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: nah, I'll just give 'em $10 and make 'em send me a copy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: it needs to be general purpose so that it catches silly "I just deleted my home directory" stuff.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and/or "borrow" a copy in the meantime</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: seriously? that's *our* problem?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">Lovechild: LVM can easily do snapshots, regardless of file system.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: it's Fedora's problem.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13: that's not silly, that's tragic.. think of all porn</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: we seriously need something like time machine, or XP's snapshot system.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">Lovechild: that might take a year or two if we are relying on that specific filesystem. LVM's seems to be a better answer to me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">Lovechild: there is a Feature for RescueKit, a greatly improved rescue image.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yes, it's a need, but it's not a QA problem</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: sure, it would just help make QA more compelling if one could reliably recover from a failed attempt</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh absolutely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">mether: lvm is appealing but it's definitely not without it's downfalls either the tools to use it are abominable</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">f13: btw what happened to the idea of dropping the boot.iso and just using rescue iso images for everything?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Even just doing, "Here's a list of packages installed, and then do this, and then try an upgrade" would probably work.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">Lovechild: idk. if you understand the concepts, the tools seem fairly logical to me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mether: that's in the Anaconda feature pages.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">also lvm has some known performance issues on raid setups, cutting my throughput in half thanks to a bolt on solution</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">anyway back to topic</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">is there anything specific to discuss?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">Lovechild: to be fair, system-config-lvm has improved over time.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mkanat: right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">mether: we are talking about a time machine like things here.. that actual users can operate, lvm is far to complex currently it needs serious sugar</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">bugzilla change is upcoming, I really think somebody needs to make more noise about this.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">f13 noise about what?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">oh?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">which bugzilla change?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">Lovechild: The Apple underlying technologies are similar too. If you think we need better gui's, I wont argue with that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: devel -> rawhide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">and removing the test releases.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">Lovechild: any idea what was the live cd installation problem linux action show kept cribbing about ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: ah. yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mether: Apple also doesn't really give you much of a choice on using a filesystem that their tools wouldn't support.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'll make some noise on test-list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">mether: I'm just saying before we have said tools in a shape users can operate and that integrates with the system. No users are realistically using it so defacto we don't have that capability</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mether: We have far too many choices that makes trying to create easy to use tools a nightmare as they would only work part of the time.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">f13: I suggested long back to drop the rest of the filesystems we kind of allow</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: they used to let you install to UFS</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">mether: They didn't give enough information to actually triage the problem nor even exclude user error.. attempts to get more information is so far unsuccessful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">except if you did, it totally screwed your system</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ahh, 10.0</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">fun times</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:34" class="time">10:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">Lovechild: I send them a mail</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there are other bugzilla changes (3.0 wooo) but those are a while off</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">Lovechild: err, I will send them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh! if there are bugzilla interfaces (XMLRPC etc) that you need, *please* send me an email</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so I can let dkl know what interfaces we use, so we can be sure those get ported</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">mether: well maybe they are just ignoring me so maybe if you tried</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:36" class="time">10:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: I was just reading the spec for all that, the other day. :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">Lovechild: live cd installations have all worked successfully for me. So I was just wondering if there was a problem that commonly occured that I didnt know about.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: I was chatting with dkl about it since I'm in charge of the WebService, upstream.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mkanat: oh excellent!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Well, kind of in charge of it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">"in charge" like "you were the last one to touch it! it's yours now!"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: LOL. Well, like I wrote a lot of it so it's mine by default.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: A lot of Bugzilla is that way, for me. :-D</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I know how that goes. Well, awesome. Glad to know you'll be involved in that process.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: Indeed. :-) You can feel free to ask me about things or suggest things to me, also.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">But yeah, I know FESCo and the pkgdb and such use some xmlrpc stuff, so I'll need to mention this to them as well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Any Fedora QA person is free to ask me about Bugzilla, as long as it's not like, some hours-long explanation thing. :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I don't know what xmlrpc calls I need to make, I just know tasks I wish to complete</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: right, well, you're OK then. I just need to make sure that the interfaces that some of the tools use stick around</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">like package reassignment, that would do a bugzilla query, find all instances of bugs of a package assigned ot the previous owner, to reassign them to the new owner.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(or the tools get change right quick)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm trying to write a wiki page about using Bugzilla in Fedora</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there's some stuff that we haven't written down that people should know</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: You could link that from the New Bug page, too.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">e.g. we ignore pri/sev, we only pay attention to a few bug states, etc.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh good call.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: It's just [% IF product = 'Fedora' %]  I think, in 2.18.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">In 3.0 it'd probably be [% IF product.name = 'Fedora' %] .</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Very cool. I'll try to get that set up once we have a page to refer to</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">going back to the rollback discussion for a second</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">for the F9 cycle I want to focus more on helping people use the tools we've got</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">rather than making new tools</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">something that does full filesystem rollbacks is a really good example - we already have lvm support for that, just need a good (or merely acceptable) interface</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">same for, like, a tester tool that shows what you've installed recently, lets you roll back to the stable/previous version, etc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">on a package level</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we already have support for all that stuff in the tools (bodhi, yum, etc) but it needs an interface and docs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so I expect to spend most of the next six months working on docs on how we do stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and tools that improve those processes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">stuff like SNAKE and Beaker and Apport will have to wait (or get picked up by other interested parties)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so there's the Grand Vision. what that means in concrete terms is probably something like: more bug days and working on stuff we've got</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and if we have time, making little GUIs for the things we do all the time anyway</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">like yum upgrades and downgrading packages and showing what the common bugs are</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay, enough vague philosophy talk</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yawn city. getting near the end of the hour.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I'd ve very sad to see apport fall to the wayside, sadly I'm not capable of picking it up</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quick recap: I'm mailing test-list about a Bug Day on Dec. 3 and upcoming changes to bugzilla (devel->rawhide, removing test releases)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Lovechild: yeah, although I think there's a lot of potential for someone to merge apport + packagekit + bugbuddy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">combine that with standardized bugzilla 3.0 web services and you'd have a sweet tool that works for everyone evverywhere</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">wwoods: oh please don't end the meeting like that, now my floor will be all covered in drool</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">without so much distro-specific cruft stuffed into it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">basically I'd like to see bugbuddy use PK to get debuginfo, and use some of the ideas from apport about bug retracing and making hashes of tracebacks to auto-find dupes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so if someone wants to talk to the bug-buddy maintainer and drive that project, I'd be happy to provide advice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:52" class="time">10:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but mostly we need to work on getting more people testing updates and rawhide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and triaging bugs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway. sorry. oh, qa-list is basically closed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:53" class="time">10:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(it's strange that mailman doesn't have a "close list temporarily" checkbox)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">you can use bodhi's RSS feeds to track new package updates</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">test notifications will go away soon</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> lmacken</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">i'm almost done with the captcha code to allow anonymous feedback</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">cool!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm working on adding info about bodhi to the QA docs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mether: are you going to track that firstboot bug?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: I think bug-buddy already supports standard Bugzilla webservices, too.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: I know that GNOME was working on it, at least.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mkanat: niiiice.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so yeah, teach it to install debuginfo packages (where applicable) and we'd be most of the way here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: Yeah, GNOME is totally interested in that, too.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: They had some discussion about it, maybe you could grab somebody from there about it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: Or I could grab somebody for you.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that would be very cool</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:56" class="time">10:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">in theory it's totally dead simple with BuildIDs in Fedora</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> mkanat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: Cool. I've pinged Olav Vitters, we'll see if he's around.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">you can just look at a header in the core and it'll tell you all the debuginfo you need</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:57" class="time">10:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">if we set up the debuginfo building properly you'd just have to do yum install [list of buildids straight from corefile] </td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:58" class="time">10:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but yeah, distro-specific hooks for installing debuginfo would be completely grand</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">wwoods: is this in the plans for F9? <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureApport">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureApport</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: no</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">wwoods: i'll remove the target release if you like :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Unless someone else wants to own it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:59" class="time">10:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Basically I think the ideas in Apport are sound, but it's something that should go into upstream tools</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:01" class="time">11:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the current implementation is very ubuntu-y. very brown.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:01" class="time">11:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay. is there anything else people wanted to discuss?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">let's consider this meeting over, then. thanks for your time, everyone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Bug Day Monday! Don't forget!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ooh maybe we should do pulseaudio bugs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><td class="action" colspan="2">* joejaxx is happy he was able to attend one :D</td><td><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e"> joejaxx</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">partially*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">joejaxx: we're glad to have ya!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e"> joejaxx</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
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