QA/Meetings/20100118

Attendees

People present (lines said)

• jlaska (141)
• wwoods (30)
• adamw (22)
• kparal (21)
• Viking-Ice (8)
• nirik (5)
• cwickert (5)
• zodbot (4)
• RodrigoPadula (3)
• buggbot (1)
• abadger1999 (1)
• tk009 (1)

Regrets:

• User:liam
• User:rhe

Agenda

• Proposed meeting agenda
• meetbot summary

Previous meeting follow-up

• maxamillion bring back conversation about Xfce 4.8 updato on xfce@lists.fp.o and inform about conclusion
  • No updates, save for next week

• Viking-Ice write lxde tests and find a date for the test day
  • Created ticket#46, agreed to move future discussion to the ticket

• cwickert to file an infrastruture ticket for the lxde mailing list
  • https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/lxde

• adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity
  • Hurry created a new install test home at QA/Installation_Test. The idea is to have that big explanatory page, and a bit in the 'joining' page which would link to it
  • Adamw would look for possibilities to propose integrating the new home with the existing QA:Fedora_13_Install_Test_Plan.

• jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place?
  • Yuck, no traction on this task, jlaska will get things rolling with this task.

Security Policy Update

On Friday's FESCO Meeting, Adam and Will responded to questions concerning building project-wide consensus around a security policy for Fedora (see FESCO ticket#297).

Adam informed the group that FESCO kicked it back to the QA team with a promise that if we come up with some kind of draft policy, people who have a clue about security will be gracious enough to review it. So as far as FESCo is concerned the next thing that happens is I come back with a draft privilege escalation policy in hand.

Adam noted he would draft something quick'n'dirty using Spot's famous blog post as a foundation, then seek QA team review before approaching FESCO.

fedora-release-rawhide

wwoods noted that a new fedora-release-rawhide package may impact how we document opting into (and out of) testing rawhide via yum (see Releases/Rawhide#Testing_Rawhide).

Nirik offered updates to Releases/Rawhide to help explain how to activate the rawhide repos. Jlaska suggested that testers on test@l.fp.org would no doubt be able to help review the recommendations.

AutoQA project update

rpmguard package comparison

• Milestone - https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/Package%20update%20tests
• Owner - User:kparal

Last week

• the small task ahead is to start sending output to autoqa-results and address any issues that surface

This week

• Test results are now sent to autoqa-results, the next large step is ...
• Continue discussing and start requirements gathering for a more formal method for collecting and presenting package update test results (see https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-January/000120.html)

Deps/conflicts prevention

• Milestone - https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/autoqa%20depcheck
• Owner - User:wwoods

Last week

• working w/ lmacken to figure out how to gather information for a post-bodhi-update trigger

This week

• lmacken working an API change into the next release of bodhi
• A close to working depsolv test case (see [1]) is available. Further clean-up needed.

install automation

• Milestone - https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/Automate%20installation%20test%20plan
• Owner - User:lili, User:rhe

Last week

• User:lili and User:rhe have started exploring test design using the rats_install/install.py test as a starting point.

This week

• Continue working towards a single python test that will automate a DVD install
• Publish test code using either a public git branch, code on a people page, just a local git checkout

packaging/deployment

• Milestone - https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/Packaging%20and%20Review
• Owner - User:jlaska

Last week

• Looking for autotest-client help with reviewing the package
• Scope out effort required to package autotest, gwt (BuildRequires) and all of it's BuildRequires - see User:Jlaska/gwt

This week

• Continue to harden the next-steps for JARs in the uncertain (see User:Jlaska/gwt#Status_uncertain)
• Attempt to rework some directory permissions as requested in autotest-client review

Current status on packaging:

• autotest-client - undergoing review - RHBZ #548522
• autoqa - packaged (see autoqa-0.3-2.fc12.src.rpm), will submit once autotest-client is accepted
• gwt-* - Still scoping out packaging needs (see User:Jlaska/gwt)
• autotest - packaged (see autotest-0.11.0-4.el5.src.rpm, will submit for review after gwt* accepted

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

When is the next F-13 milestone?

Wwoods asked when the next scheduled rawhide install image drop was (see #Upcoming QA events below (2010-01-21 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1). See rel-eng ticket#3277 for details.

Jlaska also noted that anaconda-13.16 (plus http://clumens.fedorapeople.org/updates.img) had recently gone through an automated rats_install test run. For results, see http://jlaska.fedorapeople.org/rats.png.

Upcoming QA events

• 2010-01-21 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
• 2010-01-28 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
• 2010-02-04 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
• 2010-02-05 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #1
• 2010-02-11 - Test Alpha 'Test Compose' (boot media testing)
• 2010-02-12 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (F13Alpha) #2

Action items

• jlaska - reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process for how bugs bubble through different release documents
• adamw to build on the famous spot security blog post and draft something quick'n'dirty for QA review
• nirik intends to update the Releases/Rawhide wiki page to reflect the changes (help appreciated)

IRC transcript

jlaska	#startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting	16:00
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Jan 18 16:00:41 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	16:00
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	16:00
jlaska	#meetingname qa	16:00
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'qa'	16:00
wwoods	meeting powers go!	16:00
jlaska	queue the robot sounds	16:01
jlaska	#topic gathering	16:01
* kparal is here		16:01
jlaska	wwoods: kparal: howdy	16:01
jlaska	anyone else primed and ready for another edition of the QA meeting?	16:01
* tk009		16:01
adamw	morning	16:01
jlaska	tk009: adamw hi there	16:02
adamw	sorry, /me is tweaking with stuff again	16:02
jlaska	not sure if Viking-Ice or maxamillion are around too	16:02
* Viking-Ice here		16:02
jlaska	Viking-Ice: oh good, welcome!	16:02
jlaska	okay, I put a ping out to Adam Miller, but I think he might be busy at the moment	16:03
jlaska	so let's get started ...	16:04
jlaska	Working off the agenda here http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-January/088008.html	16:04
jlaska	#topic Previous meeting follow-up	16:04
jlaska	#info maxamillion bring back conversation about Xfce 4.8 updato on xfce@lists.fp.o and inform about conclusion	16:04
jlaska	I don't have any updates on this, anyone else? I'll leave it on the list until we get a chance to sync up with Adam M.	16:05
jlaska	moving on	16:05
jlaska	#info Viking-Ice write lxde tests and find a date for the test day	16:05
jlaska	Viking-Ice: any updates on definingsome LXDE tests for a possible test day?	16:06
Viking-Ice	Not really looking at it..	16:06
Viking-Ice	Created ticket in QA	16:06
Viking-Ice	[Fedora QA] #46: Write Test cases for LXDE components.	16:06
Viking-Ice	To keep track will update there as thing progress..	16:06
jlaska	okay thanks, lemme add that to the 'draft' test day schedule too (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:QA/Fedora_13_test_days)	16:07
Viking-Ice	Ok	16:07
jlaska	Viking-Ice: thanks for the update	16:07
jlaska	next up ....	16:08
jlaska	#info adamw and rhe to discuss ways to add install testing as a QA activity	16:08
jlaska	hopefully rhe is sleeping, adamw ... sounds like you two made some progress?	16:08
adamw	well, rhe's not around, so i'll do it	16:08
adamw	rui did, i was too busy playing around with shiny shiny toys. =)	16:08
adamw	rui drafted an installation testing page:	16:09
adamw	#link lxde fedora list	16:09
adamw	grr!	16:09
adamw	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Installation_Test	16:09
adamw	stupid paste buffers	16:09
adamw	the idea is to have that big explanatory page, and a bit in the 'joining' page which would link to it	16:09
adamw	I wondered if the big page should merge with https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_12_Install_Test_Plan in some way; rui thinks not at present	16:10
jlaska	#info the idea is to have that big explanatory page, and a bit in the 'joining' page which would link to it	16:10
adamw	i'm going to take some time today to have a look at both pages and see whether I should disagree some more =), do a bit of a proofread, and come up with a draft for the bit to be added to the Joining page	16:10
jlaska	adamw: I can see the drive to avoid duplicate content. Hopefully we can do that while preserving the concept of a 'test plan'	16:11
adamw	ayup	16:11
jlaska	rather ... while addressing the same issues that the test plan addresses	16:11
jlaska	whether it takes a different form or not	16:11
jlaska	cool, nice update	16:11
jlaska	next up ...	16:12
jlaska	#info jlaska to reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process (or point to existing documentation) for how bugs are noted (common_bugs, release notes, install guide etc...) How to determine which bugs land in which place?	16:12
jlaska	another week and I've not kicked off this small task :( I'll prioritize this for today and see if beland and awilliam have some thoughts as to whether there are any ideas for improvement here	16:12
jlaska	#action jlaska - reach out to beland for guidance/ideas on how to document the process for how bugs bubble through different release documents	16:13
jlaska	cwickert: perfect timeing	16:13
jlaska	timing	16:13
jlaska	cwickert: there's a previous meeting note to follow-up on ...	16:13
jlaska	#info cwickert to file an infrastruture ticket for the lxde mailing list	16:13
jlaska	did you have any updates you wanted to share?	16:14
jlaska	okay, we can come back to that later	16:15
cwickert	jlaska: can be closed	16:15
jlaska	cwickert: ah okay, thanks	16:15
cwickert	nirik fixed it	16:15
jlaska	what's the new list?	16:15
cwickert	lxde@lists.fpo	16:15
jlaska	#link https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/lxde	16:16
jlaska	nice, thanks	16:16
jlaska	alright, moving along ...	16:16
jlaska	#topic Security Policy Update	16:16
jlaska	On Friday's FESCO Meeting, Adam and Will responded to questions concerning building project-wide consensus around a security policy for Fedora (see FESCO ticket#297)	16:16
cwickert	.fesco 297	16:16
zodbot	cwickert: #297 (Please consider the idea of a security (privilege escalation) policy) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/297	16:16
jlaska	adamw: can you talk to how things went, and what's next?	16:17
adamw	yeppers	16:17
adamw	short version: they kicked it back to us	16:17
adamw	with a promise that if we come up with some kind of draft policy, people who have a clue about security will be gracious enough to review it	16:17
adamw	so as far as FESCo is concerned the next thing that happens is I come back with a draft privilege escalation policy in hand	16:17
cwickert	fesco needs at least some kind of draft	16:18
jlaska	#info as far as FESCo is concerned the next thing that happens is I come back with a draft privilege escalation policy in hand	16:18
jlaska	adamw: is that something you can absorb for this release?	16:19
adamw	i can write up something quick 'n' dirty based on the famous blog post	16:19
adamw	i'll run it by you lot for review before taking it to fesco	16:19
jlaska	#action adamw to build on the famous spot security blog post and draft something quick'n'dirty for QA review	16:20
jlaska	adamw: what's this look like when it's all done to your liking?	16:20
jlaska	translation ... what does 'finished' look like for the security stuff?	16:21
Viking-Ice	dont we need to have a strong base security policy in place that spinners need to document ( including desktop/ all DE ) on what they differ from that policy ?	16:21
adamw	we have some kind of fesco-approved policy and some test cases for it	16:21
adamw	Viking-Ice: you'd've thought so. :)	16:22
jlaska	adamw: okay	16:22
Viking-Ice	It's the only thing that makes sense to do	16:22
jlaska	adamw: Viking-Ice: anything else to discuss, otherwise, let's move on	16:24
adamw	nope, i'm okay	16:24
jlaska	and kudos for the double contraction :)	16:24
jlaska	#topic fedora-release-rawhide	16:25
jlaska	#info wwoods noted that a new fedora-release-rawhide package may impact how we document opting into (and out of) testing rawhide via yum (see Releases/Rawhide#Testing_Rawhide)	16:25
jlaska	wwoods, got anything you'd like to add on this topic?	16:25
jlaska	take that as a no	16:27
wwoods	no, just that we'll need to talk to nirik et. al. to make sure we understand how to get on (and off!) rawhide	16:27
wwoods	and make sure that all the places in the wiki where we talk about that	16:27
wwoods	get updated to reflect the new state of the art	16:27
jlaska	ah, good	16:27
nirik	yeah, I was going to update the Rawhide page when it lands.	16:27
nirik	any help welcome.	16:27
jlaska	nirik: when you say rawhide wiki page ... is that https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide ?	16:27
nirik	yeah,	16:28
jlaska	I'm sure we can ask for help on test@l.fp.org following any instructions stubbed on the wiki	16:28
nirik	there really doesn't seem to be any/much other in the way of docs that talks to people about rawhide or how to move to it.	16:28
jlaska	esp since rawhide involvement will be heating up again	16:28
jlaska	#action nirik intends to update the Releases/Rawhide wiki page to reflect the changes (help appreciated)	16:29
jlaska	that's another area I think beland has some experience in as well, he's helped tweak that page in the past iirc	16:29
nirik	basically it will just be 'yum install fedora-rawhide-release' then edit /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-rawhide.repo and set 'enabled=1'	16:30
jlaska	cool	16:30
jlaska	alrighty ... wwoods, nirik: thanks for the updates	16:30
jlaska	moving on ...	16:30
jlaska	#topic AutoQA Updates - rpmguard (kparal)	16:30
kparal	right	16:31
kparal	so last week me and james enabled sending the rpmguard results to autoqa-results ML	16:31
kparal	so you can have a look	16:31
kparal	together with rpmlint results	16:31
kparal	in the beginning we experienced some networking issues and many tests failed, but it seems to be working well now	16:32
jlaska	#info last week, enabled rpmguard test results to autoqa-results@l.fh.org	16:32
jlaska	kparal: I don't think we ever really figured those errors out, did we/	16:32
jlaska	?	16:32
kparal	nope	16:32
jlaska	well, it works now :D	16:32
kparal	well, nothing much more about rpmguard, even won't be next week, since I'm doing RHCT	16:33
jlaska	Good luck on the RHCT front	16:33
kparal	but I also started some discussion in autoqa-devel about possible autoqa architecture	16:33
kparal	about creating server to receive all results and provide an API to access them	16:33
kparal	so all comments welcome	16:33
kparal	there are even pictures there! ;)	16:34
wwoods	heh!	16:34
jlaska	#info initiated discussion on autoqa-devel@ about refactoring capturing test results	16:34
jlaska	#link https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-January/000120.html	16:34
wwoods	definitely agree we need *some* better way to store results	16:34
kparal	I miss comments "no, you're completely wrong, it should be this way: ...."	16:34
jlaska	heh	16:35
kparal	anyone provide them, please :)	16:35
kparal	ok, that's about it from me	16:35
jlaska	kparal: does a larger discussion on the types of package update tests influence the discussion around how to store/present their test results?	16:36
jlaska	or is that something that can happen in parallel?	16:36
kparal	well, the package update tests will probably have very similar set of output information that should be stored in the results database	16:36
kparal	so we can do it simmultaneously I believe, we don't have to wait for it to finish	16:37
jlaska	okay, gotcha. thanks	16:37
jlaska	#info next steps ... continue discussion around improving the mechanism for storing test results	16:38
jlaska	alright, moving on to ...	16:38
jlaska	#topic AutoQA Updates - deps/conflicts prevention (wwoods)	16:38
jlaska	okay, so the notes I have from last week are that work is underway w/ lmacken to figure out how to gather information for a post-bodhi-update trigger	16:38
wwoods	yeah, it turns out there's some API calls that alllmost do what we need	16:39
wwoods	lmacken said he was would work on adding the call we need in the next bodhi code update	16:39
wwoods	so in the meantime I started work on the depcheck test itself	16:40
wwoods	which is.. *close* to working, but not quite there. it's tricky business.	16:40
wwoods	the code is in git: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=autoqa.git;a=blob;f=tests/depcheck/depcheck	16:41
wwoods	hah whoops I forgot to add the GPLv2 boilerplate text	16:41
jlaska	if it involves prco sets, I think my brain will melt! :D	16:41
wwoods	yeah it's kind of complicated - involves PRCO data and package sacks and processing obsoletes and whatnot	16:42
wwoods	but not insurmountable	16:42
wwoods	just gonna take some time to get it right	16:42
jlaska	I like how it's another test designed to be run by hand first	16:42
jlaska	you and kparal are trailblazers there :)	16:42
wwoods	right, that's the design - you give it the name of a repo to check against and a set of new packages to test	16:43
jlaska	#info lmacken is working on adding a missing API call into the next bodhi code update	16:43
wwoods	it checks all the dropped provides, added requires, new conflicts, etc.	16:43
jlaska	#info wwoods started design on an initial depcheck test ... not 100% complete, but close	16:43
jlaska	#link http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=autoqa.git;a=blob;f=tests/depcheck/depcheck	16:43
wwoods	and returns failure if there's any problems that would break repoclosure	16:44
wwoods	it typically takes only a few seconds to run, even when downloading the metadata	16:44
jlaska	that's not too bad at all	16:44
wwoods	which means we can very likely run it for every new rawhide package build / bodhi update	16:44
wwoods	without too much trouble	16:45
abadger1999	nim-nim: ping	16:45
wwoods	so that's depcheck.	16:46
jlaska	sweet, anything else on the depcheck/conflicts front you want to note?	16:46
jlaska	I think you said so already, not sure if there were other non-depcheck items to discuss	16:47
jlaska	I'm going to move on just to keep things going ... but we can come back if needed	16:47
wwoods	nothing comes to mind	16:48
jlaska	wwoods: okay, thanks for the updates!	16:48
jlaska	#topic AutoQA Updates - install automation (lili/rhe)	16:48
jlaska	no big updates to share just yet ... I discussed with lili last week and he is refining a sample python script that automates a virt DVD install	16:49
jlaska	the plan is to get that working, refine it per the requirements discussed in previous meeting around what inputs an automated virt install test would need to accept	16:49
jlaska	wwoods: kparal: while lili is refining his test, do you two have any thoughts on a good way to share his test development progress?	16:50
jlaska	meaning, should I ask lili to contribute the script into git ... or should we continue working it outside of git until it's at a stable point?	16:50
kparal	I think it can surely be in git right now, that's what we have VCS for	16:51
jlaska	that was my thought, but wasn't sure how you two felt about it	16:51
kparal	it can be a separate branch	16:51
kparal	and merged later	16:51
wwoods	yeah - does he already have commit access?	16:52
jlaska	wwoods: I don't believe he does yet. He's still new to git and python	16:52
wwoods	branches are cheap and (fairly) easy in git	16:52
wwoods	but if he's more comfortable just working on a local git repo until he's satisfied	16:53
wwoods	and sending patches to the list for review	16:53
wwoods	that works too	16:53
jlaska	wwoods: kparal okay thanks gents ... I'll be sure to pass that along	16:53
jlaska	and lili can choose which route he is more comfortable with	16:53
jlaska	#info next steps - continue refining virt dvd install test	16:54
jlaska	#info next steps - look for ways to contribute tests back into git (private checkout, or public branch)	16:54
jlaska	okay, next up ...	16:54
jlaska	#topic AutoQA Updates - packaging/deployment (jlaska)	16:54
jlaska	my two tasks last week were	16:54
jlaska	#info respond to package review feedback for autotest-client (bug#548522)	16:55
buggbot	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=548522 medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: autotest-client - Autotest is a framework for fully automated testing	16:55
jlaska	#info scope out packaging work required for building the autotest BuildRequires gwt (and all of it's bundled deps)	16:55
jlaska	I've got some re-work I'll be attempting with permissions on the autotest-client package	16:56
jlaska	should have that in this week	16:56
jlaska	I'm getting a better handle on the effort required to package gwt (and deps)	16:56
jlaska	#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jlaska/gwt	16:56
jlaska	#info I'll be spending time this week to identify action plans for each of the items listed under 'status uncertain'	16:57
jlaska	once autotest-client is blessed ... I'll file a review request for autoqa	16:57
jlaska	after that ... we should have all we need to deploy the results front-ends in Fedora infrastructure	16:57
jlaska	That's all I have on the packaging/deploy front	16:58
wwoods	yaaay	16:58
jlaska	okay, so let's open things up ...	16:58
jlaska	#topic Open discussion - <Your topic here>	16:58
jlaska	anything folks would like to discuss before closing out the meeting?	16:58
wwoods	when are we scheduled to get rawhide install images?	16:59
jlaska	wwoods: aha, thanks for bringing that up!	16:59
jlaska	so this Thursday (1/21) is a scheduled install image drop to run the rawhide acceptance test plan	17:00
jlaska	#topic open discussion - When is next rawhide install image drop?	17:00
jlaska	#info so this Thursday (1/21) is a scheduled install image drop to run the rawhide acceptance test plan	17:00
jlaska	#link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-quality-tasks.html	17:00
jlaska	I sent an email out to dcantrell and jkeating for guidance on indentifing who is doing what for this drop	17:01
jlaska	and filed a rel-eng ticket just to track creating the images	17:01
* jlaska finds link		17:01
jlaska	#info https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/3277	17:01
jlaska	so we ran through rats_install (finished up last monday) ... and this time should include some bug fixes for issues identified	17:02
jlaska	Rats test results against anaconda-13.16 (using http://clumens.fedorapeople.org/updates.img) - http://jlaska.fedorapeople.org/rats.png	17:03
jlaska	#topic open discussion - <your topic here>	17:03
jlaska	wwoods thanks for reminding me! :D	17:04
kparal	all nicely green	17:04
jlaska	an i386 compose wasn't created ... so there were no results	17:04
RodrigoPadula	hi	17:04
jlaska	any other issues to discuss? Otherwise, let's close things out and get back to work	17:05
jlaska	RodrigoPadula: hi	17:05
RodrigoPadula	famsco meeting ?	17:05
jlaska	RodrigoPadula: one moment, wrapping up fedora-qa meeting	17:06
jlaska	okay gang ... thanks for your attention	17:06
RodrigoPadula	ops.. soryy	17:06
jlaska	as usual, I'll follow-up to the list with minutes	17:06
jlaska	#endmeeting	17:06

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