From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
- adamw (75)
- cmurf (67)
- Viking-Ice (26)
- handsome_pirate (12)
- satellit (11)
- roshi (9)
- zodbot (5)
- spstarr_work (5)
- kparal (5)
- jreznik (5)
- tflink (3)
- robatino (3)
- drago01 (2)
- nirik (1)
- mkrizek (1)
- pjones (1)
- pschindl (1)
Agenda
- Previous meeting follow-up
- Fedora 20 Beta status
- Test Days
- Open floor
Previous meeting follow-up
- roshi to write up recap of the graphics test week - this was done
Fedora 20 Beta status
- There was at least one blocker bug known not to be resolved in Beta RC2
- We also needed information on #1023556 from dlehman
- #1004621 may possibly be worth considering for FE or blocker status
Open floor
N/A
Action items
- viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC2)
IRC Log
| adamw | #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Nov 4 16:00:48 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 16:00 |
| adamw | #meetingname fedora-qa | 16:00 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 16:00 |
| adamw | #topic Roll call | 16:00 |
| adamw | so, i'm around for once :) | 16:01 |
| cmurf | shocking | 16:01 |
| * nirik is lurking around in the back | 16:01 | |
| * roshi is here | 16:01 | |
| * tflink is quaking in his boots due to presence of adamw | 16:01 | |
| * kparal says hi | 16:01 | |
| * jreznik needs a few more minutes ;-) | 16:01 | |
| * Viking-Ice is also lurking in the back | 16:01 | |
| * mkrizek is here | 16:01 | |
| * cmurf has coffee but has to drive to ABQ in 3 hours, not here for long. | 16:01 | |
| adamw | so while roll call's going on - my apologies for disappearing last week, and the shim snafu | 16:03 |
| adamw | i'd told so many people i was going on vacation i was kinda assuming everyone knew, but turns out it was all IRL and no-one here was aware. and shim 0.5 going in ahead of votes was my bad, sorry again | 16:03 |
| * pschindl is here | 16:03 | |
| cmurf | badaboom | 16:04 |
| * handsome_pirate waves | 16:05 | |
| * handsome_pirate isn't on drugs this week | 16:05 | |
| tflink | adamw: no worries, it happens | 16:05 |
| adamw | handsome_pirate: then all is lost' | 16:05 |
| tflink | handsome_pirate: DARE finally worked for someone? | 16:05 |
| handsome_pirate | heh | 16:05 |
| handsome_pirate | I'm off the vicodan | 16:05 |
| cmurf | kparal: Fricaceed = stewed and served in sauce. As in dead. Kaput. Axed. Killed. Squashed. Squished. Strangled. | 16:05 |
| handsome_pirate | I actually don't remember last week very well | 16:06 |
| handsome_pirate | Especially last Monday | 16:06 |
| kparal | cmurf: thanks. now we need to teach google to know that as well | 16:06 |
| cmurf | kparal: well i was trying to go for obscure as well as amusing if not weird | 16:06 |
| adamw | alrighty folks | 16:07 |
| adamw | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 16:07 |
| adamw | let's see, doing this by the seat of my pants... | 16:07 |
| adamw | "roshi to write up recap of the graphics test week" | 16:07 |
| adamw | roshi? | 16:07 |
| roshi | done :) | 16:08 |
| * roshi finds link | 16:08 | |
| adamw | cool, did you use my super-lame math stuff? :) (haven't had a chance to read the list yet) | 16:08 |
| roshi | http://scriptogr.am/roshi/post/graphics-test-week-recap | 16:08 |
| roshi | I used the recap script - if that's what you mean | 16:09 |
| pjones | kparal: cmurf: "fricassee" will probably get you better google results | 16:09 |
| adamw | no, for graphics test weeks i have this thing where i calculate the number of bugs getting fixed and stuff | 16:09 |
| adamw | no biggie, can go back and do it later | 16:09 |
| adamw | #info "roshi to write up recap of the graphics test week" - this was done, see http://scriptogr.am/roshi/post/graphics-test-week-recap | 16:09 |
| roshi | cool, I'd like to see that | 16:10 |
| adamw | ok, anything from last week that isn't obvious from the minutes? | 16:11 |
| * handsome_pirate admits to not remembering last week | 16:12 | |
| cmurf | adamw: Possibly that I volunteered you and me to work out an exception policy for Btrfs and LVM thinp. | 16:12 |
| adamw | oh goody. so, unless i borrowed pirate's drugs, i'm assuming we haven't done that yet. | 16:13 |
| cmurf | adamw: Maybe we have and you did borrow his drugs. | 16:13 |
| Viking-Ice | what was that supposed to be about | 16:14 |
| Viking-Ice | write exception policy for that from the current release criteria | 16:14 |
| cmurf | yes because in practice when the going gets tough we try to find exceptions anyway | 16:14 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: i believe the idea is to update the criteria to only cover certain areas of LVM and btrfs functionality, not implicitly cover everything they're capable of | 16:14 |
| Viking-Ice | is that something we would apply now or $next_release? | 16:15 |
| adamw | dunno? /me only just got here :P | 16:15 |
| cmurf | and as dlehman put it, LVM is the emacs of storage, so not everything LVM can be supported in the installer anyway. So actually, critieria could be modified. | 16:15 |
| adamw | i suppose now, if installer team considers it impractical to cover the entirety of lvm functionality as blocker stuff now | 16:16 |
| cmurf | right | 16:16 |
| cmurf | i think in the short term we keep doing what we've been doing | 16:16 |
| Viking-Ice | then we just keep it simple btrfs lvm thinp issues wont block the release this cycle | 16:16 |
| adamw | my initial thought was along the lines that the installer only has to read/interpret stuff it's capable of writing itself, but eh | 16:17 |
| * satellit join late | 16:17 | |
| adamw | we can always do proposal/revision through th elist | 16:17 |
| Viking-Ice | mean either anaconda supports this stuff properly or they dont we cant be running around every release cycle to adjust our criteria based on their whims | 16:17 |
| cmurf | Viking-Ice: well no it's more complicated than that it depends on the issue because i don't think it's appropriate to have bugs that qualify for e.g. final block violations, to be available in Guided partitioning where people get into trouble easier | 16:17 |
| cmurf | Viking-Ice: on the other hand, we can't do major changes between beta and final because that risks more bugs | 16:18 |
| cmurf | hence an exception that actually allows some blatantly obvious and subjective judgement calls | 16:18 |
| Viking-Ice | I think it's best that we avoid "exceptions" at all cost in the release criteria | 16:18 |
| drago01 | adamw: does this code gets rewritten every release? | 16:19 |
| drago01 | adamw: I mean it should have matured at some point | 16:19 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: i don't think it'd be written as a 'this except this' kind of way | 16:19 |
| cmurf | it would not | 16:19 |
| adamw | drago01: it gets touched quite a lot every cycle, yeah, but i don't know if the bug that's prompted this is even a new bug | 16:19 |
| Viking-Ice | drago01, one would have thought so but the feeling of that is no it does not... | 16:19 |
| adamw | it came up in thinp testing, and we didn't really touch thinp before this release | 16:19 |
| cmurf | it's not | 16:19 |
| cmurf | and there are lots of other bugs | 16:20 |
| cmurf | and there are maturity issues | 16:20 |
| cmurf | and there are UI/UX concerns adamw brought up on anaconda list over a week ago that relate | 16:20 |
| adamw | if we're going to get philosophical about it i'd still argue the installer just tries to be too much of a partitioning tool, but hey | 16:20 |
| cmurf | on that point we agree | 16:20 |
| adamw | cmurf: which no-one's replying to. | 16:20 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, as well as alot of other things geoip wtf | 16:20 |
| adamw | anaconda-devel-list: where threads go to die | 16:20 |
| cmurf | i've argued custom needs to be pulled out into its own app, decoupled from the installer | 16:20 |
| cmurf | it makes the installer unstable | 16:20 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: at least geoip's simple and the scope doesn't change over time... | 16:21 |
| cmurf | and the real custom partitioning should be essentially as you described it, which is what i call an enhanced point and shoot installer | 16:21 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, leave that stuff up to firstboot or initial setup | 16:21 |
| adamw | anyhoo, we're kinda in the weeds | 16:22 |
| adamw | cmurf/me will post any proposals we come up with to the list so they can be discussed then | 16:22 |
| cmurf | yeah i think a brief convo with dlehman is in order then proposals for discussion | 16:22 |
| adamw | #topic Fedora 20 Beta status | 16:22 |
| Viking-Ice | I personally frown upon any criteria changes in the midst of the cycle and prefer we just tackle these issues on issues bases | 16:22 |
| cmurf | Viking-Ice: well read the minutes from last week's go/no-go where thinp came up | 16:23 |
| adamw | so, uh, what is F20 beta status? | 16:23 |
| * adamw hasn't checked in since thursday or so | 16:23 | |
| adamw | #chair cmurf roshi | 16:23 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: adamw cmurf roshi | 16:23 |
| kparal | we will need another RC https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1022206#c13 | 16:23 |
| kparal | also, I can't verify https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023556 | 16:24 |
| * adamw brb, call of nature | 16:24 | |
| adamw | #chair kparal | 16:25 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: adamw cmurf kparal roshi | 16:25 |
| Viking-Ice | I've not yet filed that blocker bug that causes anaconda to crash when resizing ( large partition ) in the default autoparted stuff | 16:25 |
| * satellit minor bug? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1004621 | 16:25 | |
| kparal | Viking-Ice: 1013586 ? | 16:25 |
| cmurf | hmm yes resize bugs should not crash but I think the criteria was inteded for resize to not for sure work until final; this has come up before | 16:26 |
| adamw | yeah, that was the intent | 16:27 |
| adamw | still, crash when resizing any large partition sounds bad | 16:27 |
| cmurf | if it crashes in the UI before "begin installation" is less bad by far than after | 16:28 |
| Viking-Ice | kparal, well not sure this is the same one I think mine was due to altering 3 digit ( 100+GiB ) partition ( altering 2 digit partitions <99GiB seemed to work ) | 16:28 |
| cmurf | i've been resizing 3 digit windows/NTFS volumes for the Windows matrix test for some time and it's always worked in guided | 16:29 |
| cmurf | it was busted in custom until TC5 I think, but was definitely working in TC6 | 16:29 |
| Viking-Ice | cmurf, I just took the default chosen standard partition layout and was resizing it ( anaconda puts way to much in / then is needed ) | 16:29 |
| cmurf | kparal's resize bug that happens with ext4 as well is a different bug instigated by something unique about the partition size that's confusing blivet | 16:30 |
| Viking-Ice | cmurf, that was tc5 have not retested it with more recent bits | 16:30 |
| cmurf | Viking-Ice: oh, ok so changing the size within custom, not resizing an existing volume | 16:30 |
| cmurf | i think that's fixed | 16:30 |
| cmurf | i haven't run into it with TC6 | 16:30 |
| cmurf | RC2 is being really fussy in qemu/kvm, I keep getting soft lockups on reboots but the installations are clean | 16:31 |
| adamw | satellit: that one looks quite bad... | 16:31 |
| adamw | at least worth an FE nomination | 16:31 |
| satellit | adamw: KDE lives only works once installed | 16:31 |
| cmurf | oh dear | 16:32 |
| satellit | ok not my bug someone else should nominate it... | 16:32 |
| adamw | #info there is at least one blocker known not to be resolved in Beta RC2: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1022206#c13 | 16:32 |
| satellit | cannot update live | 16:32 |
| adamw | #info we also need information on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023556 from dlehman | 16:33 |
| adamw | #info https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1023556 may possibly be worth considering for FE or blocker status | 16:33 |
| adamw | #action viking-ice to check his possible resize issue in at least TC6 (ideally RC2) | 16:34 |
| adamw | think that ought to cover everything we have? | 16:34 |
| jreznik | jgrulich as far as I know is going to be away for a few days, just fyi for the plasma-nm one | 16:34 |
| adamw | jreznik: sounds to be more in sddm than plasma-nm itself | 16:34 |
| adamw | (i'm assuming it's a logind issue) | 16:34 |
| cmurf | doesn't seem like it's consistent or it'd have been a big problem all of october yet nothing in the comments during that time | 16:36 |
| adamw | true | 16:36 |
| spstarr_work | hello | 16:37 |
| satellit | I saw it in testing https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_20_Beta_RC2_Desktop?rd=Test_Results:Current_Desktop_Test | 16:37 |
| cmurf | someone volunteer to boot the current KDE live desktop and see if they have an internet connection? | 16:37 |
| adamw | cmurf: it would be wireless-only, as I read it | 16:38 |
| roshi | I'll do it - just let me d/l it | 16:38 |
| cmurf | oh well isn't that normal? | 16:38 |
| satellit | wireless works in other DE's live | 16:38 |
| cmurf | i never have wireless working from live desktop because the proprietary firmware isn't installed | 16:38 |
| roshi | really cmurf? | 16:39 |
| cmurf | really | 16:39 |
| satellit | and in anaconda 20.25.5-1 here | 16:39 |
| roshi | it's always worked for me from live images | 16:39 |
| spstarr_work | cmurf: I can test this | 16:39 |
| cmurf | now, if i create a litd usb stick of live, with an overlay, and install the firmware, i persistently get working wireless between boots | 16:39 |
| adamw | cmurf: the bug isn't to do with firmware afaict | 16:39 |
| adamw | and most adapters don't need it these days | 16:39 |
| spstarr_work | wifi? | 16:39 |
| * satellit permissions to connect? | 16:40 | |
| satellit | dbus? | 16:40 |
| cmurf | well i only have Macs here that have Broadcom adapters and even the 2012 model has proprietary firmware required | 16:40 |
| cmurf | so that may be why my wireless expectations are so low | 16:40 |
| spstarr_work | i can boot my W500 in a KDE Live CD | 16:40 |
| spstarr_work | but its a intel wifi chip | 16:40 |
| Viking-Ice | cmurf, I had a dell with that broadcome problem but that hw has died on me so no worries no more about that ;) | 16:41 |
| satellit | system 76 here with no proprietary drivers | 16:41 |
| adamw | heh | 16:41 |
| adamw | okay, we should ook into it a bit more i guess | 16:41 |
| adamw | so anyone have any worries about 20 beta that haven't been covered yet? | 16:41 |
| cmurf | no | 16:42 |
| cmurf | well not more than the usual | 16:42 |
| * cmurf is out for the rest of this week at a conference, 50/50 chance of checking in | 16:44 | |
| adamw | rogert | 16:44 |
| adamw | welp, then it looks like it's time for... | 16:46 |
| adamw | #topic Open floor | 16:47 |
| adamw | any other business? | 16:47 |
| robatino | do beta FEs get automatically promoted to final FEs after beta gold? | 16:47 |
| robatino | see https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-November/118626.html (no response) | 16:47 |
| * handsome_pirate would be +1 for that | 16:48 | |
| * handsome_pirate also thought he responded :( | 16:48 | |
| * handsome_pirate blames the drugs | 16:48 | |
| adamw | that seems to come up every week | 16:48 |
| robatino | maybe promote proposed FEs to proposed, and accepted to accepted | 16:48 |
| adamw | but in practice, no, mainly because we have no mechanism for it and no-one wants to do it. | 16:48 |
| cmurf | adamw: i forgot to respond to that | 16:48 |
| Viking-Ice | well we should just skip promotion if we are going down that road | 16:48 |
| cmurf | i think alpha to beta automatic is OK | 16:48 |
| adamw | i wouldn't be opposed to it if someone wanted to write a way to do it and look after it. | 16:49 |
| cmurf | beta to final is risky | 16:49 |
| Viking-Ice | as in and FE remains an FE through milestones | 16:49 |
| jreznik | and also fe that could be still ok for beta could cause more issues for final in some cases | 16:49 |
| cmurf | jreznik: exactly my thought | 16:49 |
| Viking-Ice | cmurf, FE are FE we dont have to pull them in | 16:49 |
| cmurf | Viking-Ice: yes but they're allowed in, and can cause an RC to blow up | 16:49 |
| jreznik | cmurf: but allows it | 16:49 |
| handsome_pirate | It seems that accepted should be auto-promoted | 16:50 |
| cmurf | so it's like, yeah we can regress but it can be a problem | 16:50 |
| jreznik | cmurf: exactly my thought :) | 16:50 |
| cmurf | if anything | 16:50 |
| cmurf | FE's should be done by the last TC | 16:50 |
| Viking-Ice | cmurf, but since people have started to pull in proposed FE regardless if they have been approved FE on blocker bug meetings why bother with this process et all | 16:50 |
| cmurf | and then no more | 16:50 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: like i said that was a mistake | 16:50 |
| cmurf | Viking-Ice: yes that horse has been beated to death and apologized from the grave at least two or three times now | 16:50 |
| adamw | not intended to be a new policy or something | 16:51 |
| cmurf | adamw: maybe we need to flog you, strip you, put you in the middle of a busy intersection and painted blue | 16:51 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, cmurf when and where ? | 16:51 |
| adamw | earlier in this meeting, for a start, and in the bug report | 16:51 |
| cmurf | Viking-Ice: adam apologized in the bug, and in here, and maybe on a list | 16:51 |
| * cmurf votes against flogging but in favor of painting blue | 16:52 | |
| handsome_pirate | tar and feather | 16:53 |
| cmurf | overdone | 16:53 |
| * adamw checks if he has any more vacation time left | 16:53 | |
| Viking-Ice | ah it's there buried in comments | 16:53 |
| cmurf | right, buried with all the other buried comments | 16:53 |
| cmurf | okay! so we're done? | 16:53 |
| adamw | i don't think you'd have liked it if i used non-existent secret Red Hat powers to make it bright yellow and bold, would you? :P | 16:53 |
| Viking-Ice | well thunderbird craps it'self more then usual on large inboxes | 16:54 |
| cmurf | adamw: gold plated and polished | 16:54 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, honestly I thought you had done this to try to not slip beta a week again | 16:54 |
| Viking-Ice | due to release pressure | 16:54 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: nope, it wouldn't have blocked beta in the first place | 16:54 |
| cmurf | well that didn't work out very well | 16:54 |
| adamw | honestly i was just half-assing it before going on vacation | 16:54 |
| cmurf | half asser | 16:55 |
| adamw | 'oh shit i have to throw together a new TC request, this one this one this one DONE', screwed it up. | 16:55 |
| Viking-Ice | well there was that 50/50% chance it would go un-noticed | 16:55 |
| adamw | yeah, if it had actually worked no-one would've given a crap :P | 16:55 |
| cmurf | 0% chance something not bootable would have gone unnoticed | 16:55 |
| cmurf | ok wrap? | 16:56 |
| adamw | sounds lik eit | 16:56 |
| adamw | thanks for coming, folks | 16:56 |
| adamw | #endmeeting | 16:57 |
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