ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-nov-19

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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2007-11-19

Topics Discussed

  • Releasing Fedora 9 on CD--up to the Fedora Board to decide what they want
  • Enabling Jigdo
  • http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/JigdoRelease
  • create and host templates outside of Fedora for now
  • if in time there is enough demand, possibly add to compose process

IRC Transcript

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<tr><td class="servermsg" colspan="3">--- Log opened Mon Nov 19 12:58:47 2007</td></tr>
<tr id="t12:58"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 82 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 81 normal] </td><td><a href="#t12:58" class="time">12:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:58"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- Irssi: Join to #fedora-meeting was synced in 1 secs</td><td><a href="#t12:58" class="time">12:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><td class="action" colspan="2">* kanarip is here</td><td><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat here</td><td><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:04"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jwb is here</td><td><a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh yeah.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it's that time.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting</td><td><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy notting warren wwoods spot ping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* spot is around</td><td><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy is around</td><td><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren here</td><td><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><td class="action" colspan="2">* EvilBob is round...</td><td><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">kanarip: what was the url to your wiki page regarding jigdo?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><td class="action" colspan="2">* notting is here</td><td><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/JigdoRelease">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/JigdoRelease</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">thanks, adding it to the agenda page, I forgot to do that earlier.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/JigdoRelease">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/JigdoRelease</a></td><td><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">lets all take a moment to review this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren tries to load page</td><td><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren still waiting</td><td><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">so that is mostly a benefit for the mirror servers?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: it can be a benefit to users too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb and users too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">how?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: if they have content downloaded, jigdo can use that downlaoded content to construct the iso, instead of having to download the entire iso</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i rolled that into mirroring</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">my own example is that I sync a local rawhide tree and usually when a new iso comes out I have 75% of the content already... why download it all again via bittorrent?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">maybe i don't understand jigdo, but it sounds like it would make getting isos massively more complicated than it is now.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jwb, the footprint on a mirror decreases by not having to host the .iso file</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: right, but that implies they *do* have the content first</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">poelcat, perhaps my definition of "user" is too limited.  you (and i since i do the same) would not be considered "users" in my terms</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">spot: it does</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">kanarip, right that's the major benefit i see</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spot, however Jigdo isn't mutually exclusive with torrent, or with having the .iso files on the mirrors as well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">one thing about the notes listed - we actually put repoview on the isos?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">for example, if i wanted to download fedora to a windows box...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb: agreed--today :) but why not provide the opportunity to expand it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, yes Fedora 8 had repoview/ on the ISOs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">... why?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy is very against not having isos on mirrors.  if the end result iso can be verified (sha1sum) vs the published sha1sum, I guess I'm okay with publishing jigdo files</td><td><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: I forgot to exclude it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jeremy: technically, spins aren't on the mirrors</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">jeremy: agreed. i'm not against jigdo + isos, but only jigdo? Nah.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy, yeah.  i see it as an add-on, not a replacement</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, however one can exclude those files from becoming 'slices' the client wants to obtain from the mirrors and have it included in the .template files</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">kanarip: actually we need to just keep repoview off the iso period.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I need to make that change in pungi</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy: I'm with you.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jeremy, yes sha1sums can be verified on the .iso composed with jigdo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">notting: given that all of the spins are live images, jigdo is irrelevant for them, so ... :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">The big question I have then is, for normal users (IE ones without a pile of mirrored packages), what is the point?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">in fact the .jigdo also has an md5sum for the .template</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat would vote for removing the part of about not hosting isos on mirrors as the benefit of this feature</td><td><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">other than yet another (confusing) method to download the release?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i like the CD set thing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">f13: I think that's perhaps just a matter of having get-fedora even clearer than it is now (it's a lot better than previous releases, but could still be better :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, for releases there may not be much of a point for users that do not have piles of files already, although jigdo can be made to thread and/or use http pipelining</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so... if there is not much of a point....</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">compared to torrent however that'll not be much of an advantage</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, jigdo seems like a good compromise for providing templates for isos we don't want to carry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">e.g. CD sets</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: what isos, besides live, are we not going to carry?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">as a way to do cd sets, or everything</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">CD sets, everything, etc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: I'm pretty sure the board is going to ask us to do CD sets for 9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so that just leaves Everything.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jwb, and for people that do have piles of files already, having a .template for the DVD is another ~24 MB but saves a lot, lot of time for the client</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">kanarip, sure that too.  smaller benefit to most people, but still valid</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i think it is worth doing, but would not advertise as part of get-fedora, at least not for F9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: if we're not hosting the Everything cd sets, where would the jigdo template for them come from?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">for the people that can take advantage of it, is the burden on rel-eng too high to justify doing?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, people could create them and provide the templates?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: I'm still trying to understand what the burden is.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: where would we put them?  Changes to the release tree are costly and should be avoided if at all possible</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: fwict creating the template</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, i'm not following</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: but if we're not creating teh /content/ that the template would be useful for...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">poelcat, maybe i can answer that... partly</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: other people make content and provide templates, where do we /put/ those templates?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">releases/N/jigo?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i dunno</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">that seems like a fairly small detail</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">poelcat, creating the files for an Everything spin including CD, DVD and DVD Dual Layer media in one run takes about 6 hours</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">maybe i'm oversimplifying things</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">how about in the $arch/ directory next to iso/ and os/, jigdo/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: i was thinking about doing them myself and putting them on fedorapeople page, but it would make more sense to have them in a central place</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">these templates are still arch specific really</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">kanarip, that's actually what i meant, yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">kanarip: are you going to have the templates ready when we release it to mirrors?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">kanarip: often times mirrors will sync release one, and never again.  Getting content changed in the release tree is not trivial.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, i can</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, i understand</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, for Fedora 9 (and t1-3) however including the jigdo file and templates would be relatively easy though, right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">again, it has to be ready at release time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">as long as the releases/ tree doesn't change during a release, right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">right, i understand</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">will you have Everything templates ready at release time?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">or rather, ready the 7~ days before release when we hand content off to be synced?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">if i can get some pre-release access to the released tree somehow, yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> EvilBob</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">once the ISOs are ready we can do the jigdo dance on them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">is there a reason the templates have to be on the mirrors or in the release tree?  Couldn't they be offered up elsewhere?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">since we're not going to advertise it on get-fedora...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">they could</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, is that the target? complete Everything/ Spins?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, no reason to have the files in the release tree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, spins.fp.org/jigdo is just as good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">anywhere actually</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">kanarip: well, if the board comes back and says they want CD versions of the Fedora spin, that just leaves Everything to worry about.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">why would the board do that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">because there is a number of users that wants the CD's, as the numbers of downloads from Fedora Unity spins have shown</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: because they feel there is still enough want/desire for that media, and if the project is going to produce tha tmedia and make it easily available, it should go through the same compose/QA processes that the other bits of the release goes though.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> Southern_Gentlem</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">jwb because from our respins 20% of the downloads have been cd</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">so rel-eng was wrong</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">this is good.  means we learned something</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: releng + the board.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: not doing CD media wasn't our decision alone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">sure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">fedoraproject was wrong</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">+, now we have a way to potentially decrease the overhead these extra images take on mirror disc space</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> Southern_Gentlem</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">jwb no sense beating a dead horse</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Southern_Gentlem, wasn't</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, concerning the footprint on the mirrors btw... i was wondering why most of them still carry FC1-FC5, is that ever going to expire?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">kanarip: except that I don't feel comfortable /at/ /all/ not having the actual content on mirrors.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">kanarip: it'll likely expire when the master expires it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, some of the big mirrors actually run with those older versions</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, i understand, as i said none of this is mutually exclusive with current distribution methods</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">i wouldn't want that either</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">so what are we planning to do? release F9t1 with jigdo, after it's released create the jigdo files and publish them somewhere?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it seems to me that if we're hosting the jigdo files outside of the tree, they could be produced at any time right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">by any body?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">at any time, right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yes, as long as the content they're created against doesn't change</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">by anybody, right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jwb, +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i liked the idea of having them hosted on spins.fp.org</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so then really, as far as releng is concerned, it's just business as usual no?  We produce trees/isos, put them in expected places, somebody can come along and make jigdo files for them and add it to spins.fp.o</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i think so.  have to do the board approval dance?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">shouldn't be any need</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">in time though, if demand is high enough, mabye tag onto the end of the compose process by releng and then everything stays in sync and is automated?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy, oh true</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">poelcat: yeah.  this lets us see what the real demand with a lower-weight process first</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wow, that makes too much sense :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">I know.  crazy, isn't it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Proposal:  Jigdo feature owner works on getting up spins.fp.o to be able to host jigdo files.  Files are created out of band initially and hosted there.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> kanarip</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">poelcat, ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> Southern_Gentlem</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Southern_Gentlem: hey now...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> EvilBob</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">lol</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that's the majority of us, looks like it passes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> Southern_Gentlem</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">fyi <a href="http://f3dora.org/paste/555">http://f3dora.org/paste/555</a> you can see the demand for FU f8 cd jigdo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Goals for F9 release</td><td><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Last week I had asked ya'll to think up some goals for the release cycle, so that we can file milestones in Trac to track progress and deadlines.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Does gcc4.3 fit in here?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Did anybody come up with anything?  I know I failed to file my signing server stuff.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">poelcat: it's a release feature, not anything rel-eng specific</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i have a few things that are sort of rel-eng related</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jeremy: mass rebuild?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but it depends on the outcome of other discussions</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: I'm thinking more regarding infrastructure changes or policy changes during the release.  LIke introducing a signing server</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, question for you... can the arch teams use trac as well?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat withdraws his suggestion and holds for later</td><td><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: our rel-eng trac instance, or their own instance on fedora hosted projects?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">either.  though rel-eng would obviously be simpler overall</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I don't see a reason to deny that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">does "secondary arch" project already have a trac instance?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: I don't think so</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">poelcat, what secondary arch project?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">lol</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb: i keep hearing things are happening in different places</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13, reason i ask is that i would think the 2ndary arch teams might want to "clone" some of the milestones you've already created</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: yeah, I don't know of a good way to do that in Trac.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">ok, well new ones are fine too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'd have to get a list of names to add the trac admins for this instance, but should be OK</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">we'll work that out later</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well... in the interest of actually getting something done today, is there anything else anybody would like to talk about?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Discussion</td><td><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">do we need to run the jidgo thing by fesco?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: it's a proposed Feature</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: therefor it'll go through FESCo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">oh, right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">sorry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: do we need a mass rebuild for gcc4.3 ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: I haven't looked closely at the feature page, but we'll deal with that when it comes time to review all features</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: I'm not sure if their is a feature page</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat can't spell</td><td><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: until there is, I'm not going to plan for a mass rebuild (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: :)  this should get interesting </td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">when i asked Uli he said "it is just a complier" :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: point him at the part of the feature planning where "would involve coordinating with large sets of other packages"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">or that concept</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat completely agrees</td><td><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">i'll work on this a little more then</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">poelcat, why did you ask Uli?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb: i'm having internal meetings with each of the groups to see what they are thiking about or planning for F9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">isn't jakub the gcc maintainer?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb: correct</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">did you ask jakub?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb: i'm going to talk to him</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">poelcat, ok.  there are certain things that could benefit from a rebuild with 4.3</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but i'll refrain from commenting on that since it wouldn't make sense overall</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">if there's nothing else...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:06"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See ttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule</td><td><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr>
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