ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-oct-29

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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2007-10-29

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<tr id="t13:06"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Fedora 8 release meeting</td><td><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods on the scene.. like a test machine</td><td><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: ping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: how do we stand qa wise?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">present</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat just found a bug in slocate</td><td><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">it crashes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy: pong</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">(I'm going to try and make this quick since I"m fighting compose issues)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">my limited QA is pretty good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">but i rarely test installs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">as far as NetworkManager -- I talked with dcbw about half an hour ago, and the conclusion we came to is that unless we find something horrific, sticking with the current NM seems like the best approach.  he's working on getting gconf migration working, but that kind of scares me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">f13: stuff is mostly solid</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">too many cases to easily test, if something goes wrong, it's likely to be a crasher, etc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jeremy, without gconf migration, what happens to a user upgrading from FC6 or F7?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">other than the fact that we don't have an installable tree ATM</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: they have to enter the settings for their network again.  which isn't great, but I'd rather that than it crashes on them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">of course, if on install they have to enter their settings again, that sort of defeats the point of adding migration later</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: I'm not following you....</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jeremy: well, if you're going to make everyone who uses NM re-enter their config, adding migration of their old settings later isn't really going to help anyone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: helps release skippers!   also anyone that respins with updates</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: honestly, if we'd had it two weeks I'd be jumping all over it.  but it's going to be a not small amount of code with lots of string munging written in C. sooo :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">ew</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">so yeah, scanning the blocker list real quick-like</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">so there's this standing bug where Turkish installs die</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: I did a turkish install successfully yesterday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">which totally sucks but I don't think we can fix that in time... unless</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">unless jeremy pulls a miracle out of his ass, I was about to say</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">et voila</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">It seems that the change in -37 made a HUGE difference for my iwl3945 on x86_64</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">if I'm reading it right, we might have a fix for the AGP boot blocker</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: yep, there's a patch there.  the other two kernel bugs have patches too... I was going to track down davej/cebbert after this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><td class="action" colspan="2">* davej is invoked</td><td><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">SELinux stuff seems mostly sorted, except the ps3 thing that magically appeared today</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: crontab is still broken by selinux</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">my biggest REGRESSION that i've found is the backlight stuff.  but like i said last week, it's not a blocker</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jwb, bug #?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: trying to track down dwalsh (he's not in the office today), and also getting other people to check</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">warren, no bug yet.  i'm actually trying things myself</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">i'm attempting to fix ppp. *sigh*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">jeremy: really? I thought that was fixed. bah and humbug</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">warren, like building a kernel without jeremy's thinkpad patch to see if it magically fixes it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">crontab doesn't work</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: *sigh*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jeremy: hey, it's beem broken since the end of june.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">oh, and are we gonna build crc32c into the kernel so iSCSI works?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: I agree :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: that's one of the kernel bugs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> davej</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I'll build it in, jcm seems to be on the hook for fixing it in mod-init-tools later.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">it's a grotesque hack but as long as we have a plan for getting rid of it, I'm OK</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the blocker list is looking shockingly good right now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">is there a plan for the qla2xxx thing?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">jeremy: yeah, I think a couple of those are actually closeable too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">gnokii, f'rinstance, and the Turkish installs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: we have the firmware packaged now.  not really handled properly by anaconda, but it was way too late hwen we found out about it to be able to fix it sanely :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: yeah, a number are in MODIFIED because I figure me investigating, fixing and closing is a tad too much ;-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">lemme know which ones you think can be retested / closed and I'll do so</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">and/or throw them into NEEDINFO reporter</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: ones in MODIFIED should be pretty testable.  I don't think I fixed anything that wasn't trivially testable</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">gotcha</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I'll check 'em out. so crontab/selinux sounds like it's the big thing we're waiting for</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">(and fixing rawhide to have images again)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yep</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so, fingers crossed, tomorrow's rawhide should hopefully be able to be it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">a couple of people are pissy about firewire not working, but.. not a regression from F7, small number of users, planned fix for F9 (maybe an F8 update), and available workarounds</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">err, amend that: firewire not working with iso devices (cameras etc) and OHCI 1.0 controllers</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">*nod*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">rahul added the NV nosuspend change to the common bug page - we might want a whitelist or something in the future</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">but I assume we can push out future pm-utils updates to handle something along those lines once we figure out what works</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, I'd rather that we fix the driver and then just pull the hack rather than trying to do a whitelist ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">one thing that worries me is longstanding bugs with the updates to libata etc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">people who were not updating to F7 because it didn't work on their hardware</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">if it still doesn't work with F8, they're kind of in trouble</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">how widespread?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods, do we have any such boxes, or did somebody test it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">spotty - mostly seems to affect subsets of people with old hardware + wonky drives</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: I suspect there's not much we can do there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">or things we don't have hardware to test (intel dmraid)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">peter is looking at the dmraid one now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I agree that there's not much we can do for the old hardware case but dmraid worries me more</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(he wasn't able to reproduce when using intel dmraid last week, but is trying again)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dmraid bug #?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">alan pointed out some raid+libata bugs but those turned out to mostly be mdraid</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: 349161</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">warren: <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=349161">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=349161</a> is the blocker one</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">there's some other similar things in need of investigation at the bottom of <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">oh, if there's anything on that page that's fixed now, lemme know</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods eyes "NetworkManager Segmentation Faults" and "kernel does not boot on SK8V motherboards" suspiciously</td><td><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">isn't sk8v the same agp bug?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the former I haven't seen in a long while... the latter is the agp kernel bug and davej says he's going to add the patch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">notting: yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">oh, I've been testing yum upgrades from f8t3 to rawhide (we said we'd provide help/docs for people to do that) and adding stuff to <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/yum/YumUpgradeFaq">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/yum/YumUpgradeFaq</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">so if anyone asks, that's where the information lives</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods done</td><td><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> davej</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">notting: not entirely sure the sk8v bug is the same cause as the agp bug.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">Switching from wired to wireless nm-applet crash was fixed?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: I'll take a look at the raid/lvm bugs at the bottom of F8Common as soon as I get a livecd-tools with all the currnet configs built</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: I can't reproduce a crash trying with today's rawhide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I switched back and forth and back and forth and ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">warren: should be fixed, I'll be testing it in a sec</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">(waiting for powerbook to reboot)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway, do we have anything else?  or just keep trucking and fixing stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and when do we want to reconvene?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">same time tomorrow?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">going to conflict with board .maybe slightly later?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy is flexible...</td><td><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">oh hey, I have a question / discussion topic: should we remove old test release torrents after a certain time?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">getting tired of people installing f8t3 and reporting bugs against that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we should do some torrent cleanup after the release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">both bugs in outdated packages and filing them against the version 'f8test3'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">although also, we're going to start hopefully having people hit 'torrent.fedoraproject.org' directly a little less too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath agrees, possibly looking at a redesign of the torrent page would be good and finding a good home for the videos.</td><td><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: fedoraproject.org/Videos with nicer links ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but neither here nor there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f"><nod> something.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I do not like green eggs and ham.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">would you like them with a mouse?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">something to discuss in-depth at a later time, but yeah. really tired of people installing 4-week-old bits and telling me they're broken.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">well, yeah dude, we spent the past 4 weeks fixing those bits. except it's harder for you to get those bits. anyway. I'm flexible for meeting time tomorrow</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">Meeting tomorrow at undisclosed time, at undisclosed location</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">how about 2?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">sounds good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">wfm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">2 pm tomorrow it is</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy: what is ck-list ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: lists sessions according to console kit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy: and why severity "low" ? sound is completely broken</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy: i removed it!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i don't want it :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">if you remove console kit, then you don't get console permissions!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">duh!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">we ignore priority and severity on bug reports</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">set them to whatever the fuck you like</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i thought consolekit was all about changing users?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i'm the only user; I don't want it :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">no, it's not</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">oh wow, forgot this was still going :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">poelcat: there is root.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">poelcat: that's another user.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy takes away poelcat's blocker filing privileges ;-)</td><td><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">hey what about crontab ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">you wilfully removed random system packages that you didn't understand, and then filed a bug when stuff broke, and *then* added that bug to the blocker list?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">you now owe me a beer</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: crontab is still being looked into</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">wwoods: or you owe me a better page explaiing why I need consolekit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i only disabled the service :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">no</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">ConsoleKit is a system daemon for tracking what users are logged</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">into the system and how they interact with the computer (e.g.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">which keyboard and mouse they use).</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: okay :) it was advertised in our last release as a snazzy way to change users on the fly</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i thought that was its only benefit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">no no, it just /supports/ the bits that allow you to choose users</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">it handles the backend bits, like changing the owner of the console devices (sound, keyboard, mouse, etc) to the person who is currently logged in</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">without ConcoleKit you can't do fast user switching, but it doesn't do the switching for you thats fast user switcher.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">ConsoleKit and PolicyKit just take care of assigning ACLs where they need to be for access to hardware.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: that's fast-user-switching.  not consolekit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat now understands why yum remove ConsoleKit looked so ugly (I didn't do it btw)</td><td><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat stops being confused :)</td><td><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">so.... is updatedb failing a blocker?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat has caused enough trouble today... why not</td><td><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">poelcat: is it selinux?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: updatedb just worked for me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy: does it need ConsoleKit too? ;-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i'm trying to run a slimmed down system here... 1G of ram isn't what it used to be :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:04"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods running on 640MB</td><td><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: what's the bug #?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jeremy: bug 357061</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">poelcat: based on the strace, looks like something specific in your home directory (since that's where it's scanning at that point)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">hrm.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a></td></tr>
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