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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2007-09-10
News Update From F13
- Test2 is on the way to mirrors
- rawhide is now back to being rawhide unfrozen
- minimal buildroots have been adjusted (util-linux-ng is back, perl(-devel) not listed)
- have a list of names for F8--need to followup with legal
- we should really go after the broken deps and upgrade paths a week or two before the test3 freeze
- when are we supposed to turn off new packages for FC6?
- FC6 gets shut down one month after F8, do we turn off new packages beforehand?
- I'm working on the signing server stuff, and making good progress. I updated the Spec page for it and moved it into ReleaseEngineering/Projects/ space.
- hope to have something reasonable for a code drop in a git module or something by the end of this week. Right now things like gpg key and passphrase are hardcoded so I don't want to commit that anywhere right now (:
Miscellaneous
- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Policy/EOL
- The EOL policy is clearly stale/out-out-date, something FESCo should probably clarify/update.
- Should we do freezes and and snapshots differently for F9 and beyond?
- http://katzj.livejournal.com/405215.html
IRC Transcript
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<tr id="t12:58"><td class="other" colspan="2">{{Template:Tip}} f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Release Engineering Meeting</td><td><a href="#t12:58" class="time">12:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy: jwb: spot: rdieter: warren: poelcat: notting: ping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy is here</td><td><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">here (until I pass out for lack of food anyway)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><td class="action" colspan="2">* spot is here</td><td><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren here</td><td><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, well there isn't too much to talk about.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Test2 is on the way to mirrors.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">rawhide is now back to being rawhide unfrozen.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">minimal buildroots have been adjusted (util-linux-ng is back, perl(-devel) not listed)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">hi notting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we've got a few days or relative quiet before we start hitting the test3 panic (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">things needed for test 3, a name. Legal has the list, I need to ping them again.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we should really go after the broken deps and upgrade paths a week or two before the test3 freeze</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and go all bofh on packages just to get them fixed.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* spot noted that sqlite2 disappeared</td><td><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">thats a rather significant problem</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">awol, orphaned?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i think it was orphaned</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">what (still) needs it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">two of my packages do at a minimum</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">some moodle thing, iirc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">one of which i could drop, but the other has rather adamant users</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">hrm.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><td class="action" colspan="2">* spot made an attempt to port it to sqlite3, but I don't understand sqlite well enough</td><td><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat here</td><td><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we can definitely bring it back, guess that was my bad for dropping something without checking first.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I could help comaintain (me being package-monkey mostly) with somebody...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">rdieter: yeah, i'd be in the same boat, due to aforementioned sqlite know-nothing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">rock. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">One question I have in my mind is when are we supposed to turn off new packages for FC6?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">FC6 gets shut down one month after F8, do we turn off new packages beforehand?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">isn't the freeze (aka updates-only for F-2) kick in a test2? If so, then it would seem so.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">if fergit the exactly policy....</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><td class="action" colspan="2">* rdieter goes looking...</td><td><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there could be policy, I hadn't gone hunting for it lately.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">in other news I'm working on the signing server stuff, and making good progress. I updated the Spec page for it and moved it into ReleaseEngineering/Projects/ space.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">well, we have <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Policy/EOL">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Policy/EOL</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I hope to have something reasonable for a code drop in a git module or something by the end of this week. Right now things like gpg key and passphrase are hardcoded so I don't want to commit that anywhere right now (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">The EOL policy is clearly stale/out-out-date, something FESCo should probably clarify/update.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy wonders if f13 got distracted by his new laptop :)</td><td><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy: no, not at all...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so other than business as usual with tag requests and buildsystem unfucking and rawhide prodding, is there any thing else anybody would like to discuss?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">some of the feedback from my blog post is probably worth discussing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">sadly, nothing earth shattering</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">the best thing I've heard is trying to cut down on the number of freezes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, that could be useful.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">ie, we need to have one around feature freeze just to get things to calm down a little</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">but that before and after that, maybe we're better just trying to do weekly/bi-weekly snapshots</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that sounds reasonable.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">and with trying to get a little less out of them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">probably not something to change for F8, but more thinking for F9 would be good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">more silent freezes where we just snapshot and only pull a few things in that are needed, but not freeze the whole set.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nod</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">so, scrap test releases altogether in favor of snapshots?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">and probably around the feature freeze, something more like the test releases of now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">no, we'd still have a test release to co-incide with the feature freeze.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">snapshots, an alpha, snapshots, maybe an RC or two, final.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">maybe "beta" rather than "alpha", but yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sure.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I think the main thing to take away is that we want to try and get some snapshots going between now and final and then we can kind of see how that goes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">based on that, we can have a better idea as far as what to propose for F9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and we need something of a goal for those snapshots. "Installable" is pretty easy to hit, but if we know that lots of stuff is still broken once installed...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">I think "installable" and "running list of caveats" isn't unreasonable</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">release early, release often. stuff that is broken should be used to convince people to do a better job of testing things before committing/building :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> linux_geek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">hi jeremey f13</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy: I agree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so lets try to do some more snapshots till the end and discuss towards the end of f8 what we do for f9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">sounds like a plan</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, anything else?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I"d like to get back to my laptop and the signing server.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><td class="action" colspan="2">* rdieter just sent msg to fesco-list to clarify EOL/maintainance policy wrt FC-6.</td><td><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
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