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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-09-08

Fedora 8 & 9 Updates

  • updates are pushed to a new location for 8 and 9 (testing too)
  • doing testing with the updated fedora-release for transition and newer PackageKit builds to handle the key import
  • working on issues where PackageKit is failing
  • f13 sending out an announcement today about current status to keep people informed
  • see IRC transcript for additional details

F10 Beta

  • rawhide has been very unstable
  • push beta freeze from 2008-09-09 to 2008-09-11 while holding to other scheduled dates?
    • take discussion and decision to fedora-devel-list

IRC Transcript

f13 ping: notting jeremy wwoods lmacken poelcat warren jwb rdieter spot 10:03
* wwoods here 10:03
* poelcat here 10:03
* notting is here 10:03
rdieter here 10:04
* warren here 10:04
* jwb not here 10:05
* spot is here 10:06
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F8/9 Updates 10:06
f13 we've got updates pushed to a new location for 8 and 9 (testing too), and we're doing testing with the updated fedora-release for transition and newer PackageKit builds to handle the key iimport 10:07
warren 10:07
notting how are things working *outside* of pk? 10:07
warren 10:07
f13 we're running into some potential issues with PackageKit and discussing those with hughsie 10:07
f13 notting: pirut is untested IIRC, and yum just works 10:07
warren yum confirmed on both F8 and F9. pirut untested. 10:07
warren ppc untested 10:08
warren f13: what was the "PK falling over" issue you ran into? 10:08
f13 warren: I tried to uncheck 200+ updates 10:08
f13 individually 10:08
warren f13: hmm, that might be a separate bug 10:09
wwoods I'm testing on ppc64 right now, it's perfectly happy 10:09
jwb yay 10:09
f13 warren: it is, and not a blocker. 10:09
f13 warren: I didn't know about the right click -> uncheck all option 10:09
jwb f13, please ping me when you get to open forum 10:09
f13 so I'm re-installing F9 and trying from the start again. 10:09
f13 the only thing I'm concerned about at this point is that the update logic in F9 GAs PK works so that you get the new backend next time you try to do updates. 10:10
warren it worked for me from 2.3.x 10:10
warren I'm also concerned that the current PackageKit-0.2.5 no longer shows the PK icon in the tray after you relog 10:11
wwoods doesn't appear after a reboot either 10:11
warren users might be confused if they no lnoger see notification 10:11
wwoods AFAICT it doesn't work at all 10:11
notting do we have our 'what is going on, and how to fix it if things go horribly wrong' FQ? 10:11
notting (that's FAQ, sorry) 10:11
f13 notting: not as of yet IIRC. 10:11
warren notting: well, assuming hughsie fixes these two issues, then there shouldn't be any common case of things going wrong. 10:12
f13 well 10:12
warren notting: simply "Update once, then update again" 10:12
notting doesn't mean we shouldn't document how to manually import the keys, etc 10:12
f13 there is always the "in case of PK fire, use yum from the command line" 10:12
f13 notting: +1 10:12
f13 I agree that we should have "if all else fails, here is how to do it manually" 10:12
notting 'smart and apt are left as exercises for the reader' 10:13
warren notting: I dunno about manual import, it should sufficient to say "Use yum" which will do it with great certainty. 10:13
notting *cough* 10:13
warren notting: really don't want to confuse the announcement with lots of complicated things that wont matter to almost anyone 10:13
f13 warren: thats why they don't go in the announcement, they go in the FAQ 10:14
f13 the announcement just leads to the FAQ 10:14
warren ok 10:14
warren I strongly believe that we cannot release this with the current PackageKit-0.2.5 10:15
warren unacceptable to have the tray icon gone 10:15
warren sure it could be fixed later, but how will those users know it is available? 10:16
f13 well, I'm wanting to hear back from hughsie on this first, but I don't want to continue dragging things out when our non PK users could be up and going /now/. 10:17
wwoods I think it would be irresponsible to push something that's known to be broken in an visible (and confusing) way without at least getting a first-glance opinion from hughsie 10:18
f13 wwoods: sure, which is why I want to hear back from hughsie first. 10:18
wwoods right 10:20
f13 he's on the phone now, he'll get to us when he's done. 10:20
* nirik has pinged hughsie on gimpnet... he's on the phone, but will try and hop over in a bit. 10:20
warren OK, aside from PK, does everyone understand the next steps? 10:21
f13 anything further on updates before we move on? Updates will be a constant item we're working on for the next few days 10:21
f13 warren: outline them for us? 10:21
warren 1) Build final fedora-release packages for F8 and F9. This appears to 10:21
warren be identical to the packages I built previously for testing, since no 10:21
warren errors were discovered. 10:21
warren 2) Sign this new fedora-release, PackageKit and gnome-packagekit with 10:21
warren oldkey. 10:21
warren 3) Erase everything in oldrepo updates for F8. Put new fedora-release 10:21
warren there and createrepo. 10:21
warren 4) Erase everything in oldrepo updates for F9. Put new fedora-release, 10:21
warren PackageKit and gnome-packagekit there and createrepo. 10:21
warren 5) Erase oldrepo contents of F8 and F9 updates-testing and create empty 10:21
warren metadata there. 10:21
warren 6) Send out announcement. 10:21
warren 7) Push to mirrors. 10:22
warren #1 is done 10:22
warren releases and Everything is left alone for now. 10:22
nirik 0) make the faq/announcement and get it reviewed and looking ok? 10:22
warren well, that's #6 10:22
warren but yes 10:22
warren oh, also don't forget unique 10:23
poelcat how about sending out announce today referencing this list and our progress so people know how things are going and where we are at? 10:23
nirik and exist now, FYI. 10:24
warren poelcat: we really have to know the status of the things we push before sending out the announcement 10:24
warren the announcement must be succinct and not confusing 10:24
warren If hughsie can fix PK, then the announcement is pretty much just "Update, then update again", fingerprints of the new keys and links to the FAQ. 10:25
f13 warren: he's asking for a status announcement, not /the/ announcement 10:26
warren If hughsie can't fix PK in time, then the announcement has to mention "oh btw, this is broken, and no we don't have a fix for it yet, and it wont tell you when a fix is available." 10:26
f13 warren: akin to what I did on Fridayish 10:26
warren oh 10:26
f13 poelcat: I can do that. 10:26
poelcat cool :) 10:27
* poelcat thinks/hopes this will help people remain patient 10:27
warren f13: should we point people at the fedora-release packages and say "please test this, although packagekit is known broken" 10:28
wwoods it's not *that* broken 10:28
warren f13: perhaps fedora-devel-announce can be pointed it, while fedora-announce-list not. 10:28
warren wwoods: the key import part is broken 10:28
wwoods the icon doesn't appear. you can still list updates, apply them, etc. 10:28
wwoods oh original f9 10:28
warren f13: still nobody has tested pirut 10:29
f13 warren: I"d rather not on a announcement that goes to fedora-announce-list 10:30
f13 warren: you can re-post to fedora-devel-list or fedora-test-list 10:30
warren f13: that's what I said 10:30
warren f13: fedora-devel-announce only 10:30
f13 meh, make another mail. 10:30
mbonnet warren: nitpick: do we really need the .transition in the fedora-release Release? It looks...non-standard. 10:31
warren mbonnet: bikeshedding 10:31
mbonnet warren: user experience 10:31
warren mbonnet: doesn't hurt, and it actually is less confusing to know exactly what state the user is in 10:31
warren mbonnet: this actually is only a transitional package. soon later we will push the final into newrepo. 10:32
f13 yeah, it'll get replaced with a standard n-v-r in the new updates location 10:32
mbonnet warren: *shrug* Just saying, as an otherwise clueless user, seeing a package named like that might raise questions. 10:32
mbonnet but I don't really care that much 10:33
warren f13: well, I was thinking to name the next one 9-5.newkey to again be explicitly clear. because otherwise 9-2 and 9-5, at a glance you don't know which key you have, and that is pretty important. 10:33
warren are others really against this? 10:33
warren again this is bikeshedding. 10:33
f13 anything else on updates? 10:34
warren oh yes 10:35
warren So do we have agreement on how we will handle the key revoking? 10:35
warren We didn't exactly ask Panu to add that hack to rpm yet. 10:35
f13 I haven't focused on that, due to wanting to get phase1 actually working 10:35
warren ok 10:35
warren let's revisit this 10:35
warren next 10:35
f13 next meeting perhaps 10:36
f13 I'd rather discuss it once phase1 is done 10:36
f13 ok, moving on. 10:37
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F10 Beta 10:37
f13 after the previous schedule adjustments, we were supposed to freeze tomorrow (well late late tonight) 10:38
f13 but we were also supposed to have a working rawhide for the past week+ 10:38
f13 that didn't happen, so I've put the question out there as to wether the freeze should happen either 10:38
warren what were the things preventing working rawhide? 10:38
f13 broken libxml2, broken package tickling a broken createrepo, anaconda being broken via NetworkManager 10:39
wwoods build problems, then mishaps using NM in stage1 10:39
f13 so for a few of the days we had no rawhide, a few of them we had rawhide, no images, but repodata for packages, then we had rawhide, repodata, images but not working, and today we actually have somewhat working images. 10:40
f13 there has definitely been progress 10:40
wwoods yes we have progressed quite a bit, and now we are at.. square one 10:40
warren we need a few days of square oe 10:40
warren one 10:41
f13 that's my thought as well, but we have Thanksgiving to consider 10:41
warren hughsie! 10:41
hughsie sorry for the delay guys, been sorting out family stuff 10:42
f13 hughsie: that's OK 10:42
f13 lets put the beta talk aside for a moment 10:42
hughsie okay, what's the problem? 10:43
f13 hughsie: so, it's been noticed that the panel icon seems to go away and not come back with 0.2.5-1 10:43
hughsie is the process running? 10:43
f13 it doesn't seem to come back to indicate that there are updates availabl.e 10:43
wwoods hughsie: yes 10:43
hughsie gpk-update-icon that is 10:43
warren hughsie: upgrade to 0.2.5-1 and relog or reboot, tray icon is forever gone 10:43
hughsie gpk-update-icon --verbose says? 10:43
warren hughsie: yes running 10:43
hughsie can someone pastebin th eoutput pls, i'm running my laptop on my lap in a living room 10:43
warren hughsie: output with the running pkg-update-icon or after I kill it? 10:44
wwoods unable to locate theme engine nodoka.. cannot register existing type 'LibGBus'.. assertion 'initialization_value' != 0 failed 10:44
f13 ooops 10:44
wwoods g_object_new: assertion `G_TYPE_IS_OBJECT (object type)' failed 10:44
hughsie warren: killall gpk-update-icon && gpk-update-icon --verbose 10:44
warren (without killing it) 10:45
warren (after killing it) 10:45
hughsie urgh, i see the problem, but i dont know why it's worked before 10:46
hughsie libpackagekit uses LibGBus, as does gpk-update-icon 10:46
hughsie and as we strip any of the non pk- prefixes from the library i figured we shoul dbe okay 10:47
hughsie but LIBGBus must be part of the internal private ABI 10:47
hughsie as it's registered in the type system 10:47
hughsie warren: just on 0.2.5 ot 0.2.4 as well? 10:48
warren hughsie: I think I only tested 0.2.5 10:50
warren hughsie: actually, I saw icons in 0.2.4 10:50
hughsie right, so something changed 10:50
hughsie let me check 10:50
hughsie bingo 10:51
hughsie commit aae0eb74e9bd527fa6e0e73579bf77b1ba83b291 10:51
hughsie Author: Richard Hughes <> 10:51
hughsie Date: Wed Aug 6 12:40:45 2008 +0100 10:51
hughsie bugfix: link in a local copy of gbus now we are compiling libpackagekit with -export-dynamic 10:51
hughsie want a new rpm to try? 10:51
f13 please 10:51
f13 *sigh* 10:52
warren anyone installing a fresh F8? we really need to test pirut as well. 10:52
f13 my test is halted at downloading file lists, probably because I'm connected to a slow ass mirror. 10:52
f13 is there any way to force PK to move to the next mirror? 10:52
nirik warren: f8 gold? or any f8? 10:52
warren nirik: we should really test both on all archs, but I highy doubt it is broken 10:53
* nirik powers on a x86_64 f8 guest he had laying around. 10:53
wwoods PK still doesn't tell you when you should restart.. or are we just lacking metadata for that? 10:54
hughsie f13: no, yum should timeout, right? 10:54
hughsie wwoods: on rawhide yes 10:54
wwoods no, on F9 10:54
f13 hughsie: depending on how you're using yum, it could take a long time to timeout, but if it's a slow mirror, it's getting data, just extremely slowly 10:54
f13 like a bit a minute 10:54
hughsie hmm, there's not a lot pk can do in that situation 10:55
hughsie we just rely on yum to DTRT 10:55
nirik warren: whats the link to that transitional fedora-release? 10:56
f13 hughsie: yum allows you to ^c while downloading and that triggers a mirror switch 10:56
hughsie f13: about to build new rpm 10:56
notting f13: send the signal by hand to the backend? 10:56
f13 since you can see the rate you're getting and make a decision. 10:56
f13 notting: what would be the signal? 10:57
LetoTo1 is someone planning a test kernel-xen rpm with the "x86_64 dom0 is working" patch set from a few days ago? 10:57
* nirik got it. 10:57
wwoods LetoTo1: not really sure what that has to do with the rel-eng meeting 10:58
f13 LetoTo1: wrong chan. 10:58
LetoTo1 oops 10:58
notting f13: sigint 10:58
LetoTo1 sorry 10:58
f13 notting: ah, I'm just not sure how to send that via pkcon 10:58
notting f13: kill -INT <pid> 11:00
warren 11:00
warren 11:00
* nirik runs pruit 11:00
warren f13: hughsie: do we have to worry about the old backend running after upgrade, or is that part well tested? 11:00
hughsie warren: 0.2.x to 0.2.y is well tested 11:01
f13 warren: I'd like hughsie to give me a test to verify, but it seems to be working 11:01
hughsie 0.1.x to y is less well tested (worked for me just now) 11:01
warren how long ago was 0.1.x? 11:01
hughsie the F9 gold release 11:02
hughsie very quickly became 0.2.x 11:02
* wwoods installs F8 x86_64.. for funtimes 11:02
warren ok 11:03
warren if we're confident about the backend part 11:03
f13 notting: yeah, that didn't help. 11:06
hughsie warren, f13: 11:06
hughsie that should be a-ok 11:06
hughsie apologies for the balls-up, things are a bit frantic here at the moment 11:07
f13 understandable. 11:07
f13 we'll keep testing with that, should be fine. 11:07
hughsie thanks dude 11:07
f13 I still can't do a complete good test because I'm handed a barely functional mirror and there is no way I can find to make PK move to a different mirror 11:07
hughsie if you need to grab me, ping me with email and i'll try and jump on 11:07
hughsie f13: you can do killall packagekitd if you like 11:08
* nirik waits for the download to finish here... pile of packages. 11:08
f13 hughsie: I wanted to test without killing the daemon 11:08
hughsie i usually end up disabling the mirror and using fedora directly as the mirror bits seem, well, interesting 11:08
f13 oh here it goes 11:09
nirik pirut asked for the new key, imported and appears to be running the transaction now. All looks ok from what I can see. 11:09
hughsie i have to go visit some family, but i'll be back in a hour or so 11:12
f13 success. 11:12
f13 hughsie: ok, cheers. 11:12
f13 alright, lets move back to beta talk. 11:13
* nirik sees the update boom on the NetworkManager thing. 11:13
warren nirik: F8 update? 11:13
nirik yeah, using pirut. 11:13
nirik on x86_64. 11:14
warren is hte NM thing described somewhere? 11:14
nirik yeah, let me find the bug. It's a multiarch thing. 11:14
dgilmore how bad was todays rawhide? 11:15
wwoods it's fine. 11:15
wwoods it installs and everything. 11:15
wwoods oh wait. maybe it doesn't? 11:17
wwoods it starts anaconda, anyway 11:17
notting is there any sane way to slip less than a wee? 11:18
notting week? 11:18
f13 notting: yes, I was just getting to that 11:19
f13 notting: we could freeze on Thursday instead of Tuesday, and keep everything else the same 11:20
f13 essentially it gives developers a couple more days of free builds before we lock things down. 11:20
f13 which, given the timing of things, is probably the best choice right now 11:21
warren +1 to Thursday 11:21
notting wfm 11:21
warren btw, about the translators issues 11:22
nirik humm... can't find the bug now. ;( Perhaps I should file a new one. 11:22
warren do we like the suggested idea (who was it?) to accept any builds after the freeze for a few days with only translation fixes? 11:22
warren nirik: so NM multilib in F8 repo is broken? 11:23
f13 warren: are they really necessary for beta? 11:23
f13 warren: don't we have a rather large period between beta and final freeze when translation updates can be built? 11:23
nirik give me this: 11:23
warren f13: I'm not exactly sure how it works normally 11:23
f13 warren: I don't think they are either. 11:23
f13 warren: I think they thought if it didn't go into beta, it wasn't going in at all 11:24
f13 which is just plain wrong. 11:24
warren f13: yeah 11:24
warren let's just go ahead with Thursday 11:24
warren nirik's issue we need to look at though 11:24
warren that sounds bad 11:24
f13 it happens... frequently 11:25
nirik looks like it doesn't put the i386 version of NetworkManager in the transaction... 11:25
warren is i386 in the x86_64 repo? 11:25
warren (repo or tools problem?) 11:25
nirik it's not in the x86_64 repo... 11:28
nirik the newkey one. 11:28
nirik humm. or is it. Let me look at another mirror. 11:28
f13 I wonder if it's just not being seen as multilib anymore by our algorithm 11:28
f13 notting: this is 8? 11:28
warren nirik: oldkey F8 repo has both? 11:29
nirik old one didn't have it either. 11:30
f13 nirik: the master has NetworkManager-glib-devel-0.7.0-0.6.9.svn3675.fc8.i386.rpm NetworkManager-glib-0.7.0-0.6.9.svn3675.fc8.i386.rpm and NetworkManager-devel-0.7.0-0.6.9.svn3675.fc8.i386.rpm 11:30
nirik I have seen this problem from some people in #fedora. Nuking the .i386 version makes the upgrade work... I thought it was filed, but I can't find the bug now. 11:30
nirik right. No NetworkManager.i386 11:31
f13 this is yet another of those "no longer multilib" updates 11:31
f13 we have to fix those forcefully in anaconda, I don't recall what the rpm magic is (if any) to do it automatically 11:31
wwoods there isn't 11:31
wwoods hence the anaconda magic 11:31
f13 nod 11:31
nirik right. :( 11:31
f13 moral of the story, don't do that in an update 11:31
* f13 wonders if this is something we should bug panu about allowing 11:32
nirik so, this is already the way it was, nothing to see here on the new updates, move along. ;) 11:32
wwoods f13: it depends on arch-specific req/prov, which is in the new rpm 11:32
warren ok, not a regression 11:32
warren is the new PK build done? 11:32
wwoods so.. I can't install fedora-release-8-5.transitiontest1 11:32
wwoods on F8 GA 11:33
warren huh? 11:33
warren what error? 11:33
wwoods Missing Dependency: /etc/redhat-release is needed by package initscripts 11:33
* wwoods confused 11:33
warren fedora-release-8-5 and 5.transitiontest1 doesn't even change that as a dep 11:34
wwoods I dunno, but F8 stock yum doesn't want to localinstall it 11:36
wwoods the F8 transitional repo might need a newer yum 11:37
f13 the fuck? 11:37
f13 did F8 gold's yum not understand filedeps? 11:38
wwoods I have no idea 11:38
f13 wwoods: you sure that you just didn't get the filelists repodata downloaded? 11:38
warren wwoods: F8 stock yum wont install it, then it wont install fedora-release along with the new yum 11:38
f13 anywho, I'm going to post the suggestion of moving the freeze to Thursday to the list 11:39
f13 moving on 11:39
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - open floor 11:39
f13 jwb: ping 11:39
jwb hey 11:39
jwb so, small not surprising announcement 11:39
nirik wwoods: you need release notes too? 11:39
jwb i need to bow out of rel-eng for a while 11:39
jwb EOF 11:40
wwoods confirmed.. works fine after upgrading to yum 3.2.8-2 11:40
wwoods bluh! 11:40
wwoods so it looks like the f8 transitional repo will need to have that yum package 11:41
f13 wwoods: erm 11:41
f13 wwoods: please to be looking closer at your output and make sure the yum update to yum didn't pull down filelists.xml 11:41
f13 or flilelists.sqlite 11:41
wwoods do you mean yum upgrading fedora-release? 11:41
f13 wwoods: I want to make sure it wasn't just a buggy with yum localinstall that fails to drag in the filelists 11:41
wwoods I definitely made yum pull down filelists 11:42
f13 wwoods: when? 11:42
wwoods maybe yum 3.2.7 just fails to do that on localinstalls 11:42
warren wwoods: did you try to make a local repo with createrepo? 11:42
f13 wwoods: that's what I was wondering 11:42
wwoods so maybe this will work normally 11:42
warren wwoods: try a local repo with createrepo just to be sure 11:42
wwoods warren: no, I didn't 11:42
f13 wwoods: the scenario I saw was "yum localinstall foo" -> fail -> yum update yum (pulls filelists.) -> yum localinstall foo -> works 11:42
wwoods f13: doesn't have anything to do with filelists AFAIK 11:43
f13 hrm, that file is in /etc/ so it might be in primary.xml ? 11:43
wwoods I did: yum localinstall (fail), yum upgrade (pulls filelists).. cancelled, yum localinstall (fail) 11:43
wwoods yum upgrade yum, yum localinstall.. success 11:43
f13 k 11:43
wwoods so it's probably a yum bug. lemme see if I can roll back to the original yum and test again 11:44
f13 wwoods: that would be good to know 11:46
f13 jwb: ok, I thought you had a bit more of something to talk about. 11:47
warren hmm, PK build not done yet? 11:47
f13 jwb: do you need us to take care of anything for you, remove you from lists, or whatnot? 11:47
jwb f13, the only thing i was on tap to do was moving the F9 spins from Beta to final 11:48
f13 k 11:48
jwb f13, and no, i can stay on all the lists and whatnot. just no time for actually doing anything (which is about how it's been for the past few months anyway...) 11:48
f13 ok. 11:49
wwoods confirmed.. worked fine when upgrading from a test repo 11:50
wwoods so yeah, it's just a localinstall bug 11:50
warren grr 11:50
f13 ok, *whew* 11:50
warren ohh!! 11:50
warren it is gnome-packagekit 11:50
f13 wwoods: 11:51
f13 <skvidal> f13: just for fun - though I doubt it 11:51
f13 <skvidal> run 11:51
f13 <skvidal> yum update /path/to/rpm 11:51
f13 <skvidal> and tell me me if it magically works 11:51
wwoods I don't think that will work 11:51
f13 ok, well we're at nearly 2 hours of meeting by now, I think it's time to wrap it up 11:53
f13 testing continues to look good 11:53
warren what testing do we want to finish before we go live? 11:54
f13 warren: it'd be interesting to do a minimal + PackageKit install and see what all other things the newest pk and gnome-pk will need to pull in 11:54
f13 if that hasn't been done already 11:54
warren f13: according to folks last week on f-d-l PackageKit* gnome-packagekit and unique 11:55
f13 ok 11:55

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