Training and Tips for Fedora Ambassadors (20090307 classroom)

IRC Logs

-!- nirik changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Fedora IRC Classroom - Training & Tips for Fedora Ambassadors with your teacher Max Spevack (spevack ) - See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom for class schedule today and more info.		12:30
herlo	wonderer|chatzil: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom#Suggest_a_Class	12:30
spevack	hi everyone	12:30
franciscod	spevack: hi..	12:30
@nirik	not much of a break there, but we are ready with the next class... take it away spevack!	12:30
linuxguru	hello spevack	12:30
vartsu_	hi	12:30
heftig	hi	12:30
wonderer|chatzil	hy spevack.	12:30
spevack	thanks nirik	12:30
sherry151	hello	12:30
zubair	linuxguru, the documents will be added on the fedora project?	12:30
linuxguru	zubair, yes.	12:30
spevack	greetings to all -- i see a few irc nicks that I don't recognize, which is good, since this class is meant in particular for folks who are relatively new to Fedora	12:31
zubair	linuxguru, when	12:31
spevack	I'd like to welcome everyone to the Ambassador Tips & Training session of Fedora classroom. I'm your professor, Max Spevack. If you want to know a bit about me, feel free to check out my Fedora user page -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaxSpevack	12:31
wonderer|chatzil	:-)	12:31
spevack	My hope is that this session will be interactive, so please don't be shy about asking any questions as they come up. The total number of Fedora Ambassadors has grown 30% in the last six months, so the purpose of this hour is to make sure that any new Ambassadors who have joined the project understand how Fedora Ambassadors works, what your local resources are, and how you can be an effective member of this community.	12:31
* spevack has a bit of pre-prepared material that he can just paste in :)		12:31
zer0c00l	:-)	12:32
* sseiersen is a new ambassador.		12:32
spevack	sseiersen: where are you located?	12:32
sseiersen	Maryland, USA	12:32
spevack	cool	12:32
spevack	Let's start by outlining the most important functions of Fedora Ambassadors.	12:32
spevack	(in no particular order)	12:32
spevack	(1) Fedora Ambassadors are often the "public face" of Fedora in their region, country, or city.	12:32
* wonderer|chatzil seems to be a senior-ambassador with some questions ;-), located in germany, europewide experience ;-)		12:32
spevack	Fedora Ambassadors organize the events in which people are exposed to Fedora, and learn about the values of the Fedora Project -- freedom, friends, features, first. I'll talk more later about the unique role that Ambassadors have in bringing the values of Fedora to the general public.	12:33
RocknRoll	hi guys	12:33
spevack	hi	12:33
spevack	welcome	12:33
spevack	(2) Fedora Ambassadors are one of the most important means of recruiting new contributors.	12:33
RocknRoll	hello	12:33
* sseiersen has a question		12:34
spevack	sseiersen: please ask it	12:34
RocknRoll	guys i heard fedora class is going on	12:34
RocknRoll	is it?	12:34
sseiersen	Would it be alright to copy the log and turn it into a PDF guide for the wiki?	12:34
@nirik	RocknRoll: right this very second. ;)	12:34
spevack	sseiersen: funny that you should mention that	12:35
spevack	because one of the projects that is currently just starting up in Ambassadors is the creation of a training guide	12:35
sseiersen	Really?	12:35
sseiersen	I'd be glad to help later.	12:35
spevack	and I expect that some of the content from these classes will help inform the layout of that guide	12:36
mahesh	training guide?	12:36
spevack	sseiersen: are you on fedora-ambassadors-list?	12:36
sseiersen	Yes.	12:36
spevack	mahesh: yes, there's a current project underway to put together a 10 or 15 page guide to "how to be a fedora ambassador"	12:36
spevack	furthermore, this is the second time that I've given this IRC class	12:36
mahesh	spevack : fine	12:37
spevack	and my preparations for today involved reviewing the log from last time and rewriting some of that material in a way that makes better sense	12:37
spevack	so the point is that yes -- i think it's very important that we not let things like this just disappear	12:37
spevack	but that we collect up Ambassador tips & best practices and help codify that and educate	12:37
mahesh	spevack : yes for sure	12:37
spevack	one of the challenges that we face in Fedora Ambassadors is the incredibly diverse nature of that part of the Fedora community	12:37
spevack	sseiersen, you've probably already seen it on fedora-ambassadors-list	12:38
spevack	there are people on that list from all over the world, and I think that list more than many others in Fedora. That poses a few interesting organizational challenges and decisions, which I will also get in to a bit more later.	12:38
sseiersen	Think I did, thought it would be good to bring up.	12:38
spevack	For the moment, I want to get back to my informal list of what I consider the most important roles that Fedora Amabassadors fill	12:39
sherry151	http://issuu.com/borchi24/docs/fedora_quickguide_v1	12:39
sherry151	this is as far as it goes till now..	12:39
spevack	As already mentioned, (1) is often being the public face of Fedora.	12:39
spevack	(2) Fedora Ambassadors are one of the most important means of recruiting new contributors.	12:39
spevack	Personal interaction is one of the most important parts of community building, and Fedora Ambassadors provide that far better than an IRC session or a mailing list can. The importance of personal interaction is also one of the reasons why FUDCons and FADs are so important to Fedora.	12:39
SSlater	FAD?	12:40
sseiersen	Fedora Activity Day	12:40
SSlater	k	12:40
spevack	FUDCon = Fedora User and Developer Conference	12:40
spevack	FAD = Fedora Activity Day	12:40
* spevack digs up links		12:40
spevack	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon	12:41
spevack	FUDCon is the Fedora Users and Developers Conference. FUDCon is a combination of sessions, talks, workshops, and hackfests in which contributors work on specific initiatives. Topics include infrastructure, feature development, community building, general management and governance, marketing, testing and QA, packaging, etc.	12:41
spevack		12:41
spevack		12:41
spevack	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD	12:41
spevack	The Fedora Activity Day (FAD) is a regional event (either one-day or a multi-day) that allows Fedora contributors to gather together in order to work on specific tasks related to the Fedora Project.	12:41
spevack	Originally, these meetings were used for local Fedora Ambassador groups to make their plans for the coming year, but the idea is being expanded to bring local contributors together in order to work on any projects related to Fedora, and (if so desired) to organize some sort of social event or to hold the event in an interesting location.	12:41
spevack		12:41
spevack		12:41
* spevack pauses for a moment to let people read		12:41
spevack	Setting aside Fedora Ambassadors for a moment	12:42
spevack	and talking about the general challenge of building a strong Fedora community overall	12:42
spevack	my experience has shown me that it is almost impossible to over-value what personal interaction brings to the community	12:42
spevack	People who work together on IRC and email all year spend a few days together at a FUDCon, and the energy and excitement that people tend to leave with towards Fedora is so strong, that you can feel it in the air.	12:43
spevack	Fedora Ambassadors can provide that same sort of energy, in smaller and more frequent local doses.	12:44
spevack	In fact, I'm teaching this Fedora Classroom session from the office of one of our Fedora contributors in the Netherlands, because we had a meeting of about 10 Dutch Fedora contributors earlier today, and they were discussing some of their goals for Fedora in the Netherlands.	12:44
spevack	Not speaking Dutch myself, my role today was to show up with tshirts, shake a few hands, and buy some beers :)	12:45
cjg	grolsch?	12:45
spevack	cjg: and others :)	12:45
spevack		12:45
SSlater	yummm	12:45
spevack	Moving on....	12:45
spevack	(3) Fedora Ambassadors are the folks who implement the strategy that Fedora Marketing develops.	12:46
spevack	It's important to realize that there is a lot of sharing between Fedora Ambassadors and Fedora Marketing. Neither team can be successful without the other. One of the biggest mistakes I see Fedora Ambassadors make is when they fail to realize that being an Ambassador requires more than just being willing to stand behind the booth at an event.	12:46
spevack	How many people within the sight of my voice have ever attended a Fedora Marketing meeting?	12:46
wonderer|chatzil	me	12:46
mahesh	me once	12:46
* quaid		12:46
inode0	?me	12:47
inode0	for some defn of attended :)	12:47
spevack	so for those of you who have not, I'd encourage you to give it a try. Come to 2 or 3 meetings and see whether or not they add to your understanding of the broader picture that Fedora is trying to paint to the public.	12:47
spevack	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings	12:48
spevack	Fedora Marketing meetings are on Tuesdays at 2100 UTC	12:48
* herlo has		12:48
spevack	The best Ambassadors are students of every part of Fedora. Because you never know who you will meet at an event, Ambassadors need to be familiar with the active goals and roadmap of many different parts of Fedora. You need to be familiar with the key features that are being developed in Rawhide. You need to know what the Websites team is doing. You need to be able to explain the general process around packaging software into Fedora, etc.	12:48
spevack	this is a really important point.	12:49
spevack	*anyone* can hand out a CD or a tshirt. But the "stickiness" of that activity is small	12:49
spevack	maybe the person will install Fedora	12:49
spevack	maybe they won't.	12:49
mahesh	how to track these rawhide and website team activities	12:49
quaid	FWN++	12:49
quaid	Fedora Planet++	12:49
spevack	quaid makes an excellent point.	12:49
StabbyMc_	spevack !	12:50
spevack	StabbyMc_: let me make my point about FWN and Planet, then i'll get to your comment	12:50
spevack	Fedora Weekly News and Planet Fedora are the two most painless ways to keep up a broad general knowledge of what is happening in Fedora.	12:50
spevack	Fedora Weekly News is delivered every Monday to Fedora Announce List, and also to the wiki	12:50
spevack	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/LatestIssue	12:51
spevack	http://planet.fedoraproject.org is our blogroll	12:51
spevack	and it is a very important piece of our community.	12:51
spevack	StabbyMc_: please go ahead	12:51
StabbyMc_	If the expectation for Ambassadors is that they attend Fedora Marketing meetings, run Rawhide, are up on all the roadmap features, and hold events, that needs to be on the Fedora Ambassadors page instead of the current "do what you want" message.	12:51
spevack	StabbyMc_: a fair point. I would say that I don't expect every ambassador to do ALL of those things.	12:52
spevack	two comments from me	12:52
spevack	first, your point is a good one, and I would go further to say that most of the "introductory"	12:52
spevack	material under the Ambassadors section of the wiki	12:52
spevack	needs to be totally rewritten.	12:52
spevack	I wish I had the time to do more of that myself, but I don't.	12:52
spevack	so it will continue to happen bit by bit	12:52
spevack	or perhaps an enterprising individual will take some of the points I make in these sessions and refresh the material :)	12:53
spevack	the second point	12:53
spevack	and StabbyMc_ you give me a perfect lead into it	12:53
spevack	is to emphasize the importance of Ambassadors forming together to build local teams	12:53
StabbyMc_	spevack: it's as though you pay me.	12:53
spevack	StabbyMc_: :)	12:53
spevack	Looking at the best events all over the world -- whether they are in NA or Europe or wherever, the events that are most successful	12:54
spevack	are ones in which a team of 3-5 ambassadors comes together to fill all the different roles.	12:54
spevack	What are the sorts of roles that need to be filled at an event?	12:54
spevack	I'm glad you asked!	12:54
spevack	(1) Logistical	12:54
spevack	Getting space, having swag, knowing who is coming, registering for talkst, etc. The "manager" of the event.	12:54
spevack	(2) Manning the booth --	12:55
spevack	this is where you're going to want to have one or two people who are up to date on a lot of the most recent stuff going on in fedora	12:55
spevack	because you'll get random questions about the current release, etc.	12:55
spevack	(3) Speeches.	12:55
spevack	I am a firm believer that Fedora should try to have a speech at every event we attend.	12:56
quaid	!	12:56
spevack	I could (and probably should) give an entirely separate class about my own ideas on how to deliver a speech that effectively delivers the Fedora message.	12:56
spevack	quaid: please go ahead	12:56
spevack	in fact, any long-time ambassadors who have comments or want to add to what I'm saying, please jump in	12:57
mahesh	spevack : yes for sure	12:57
quaid	do you still, in your mind :), connect speeches with how much budget should be spent on an event	12:57
quaid	that is, the more Fedora does there (special booths, talks, etc.), the more we want to spend there, attract resources, etc.?	12:57
wonderer|chatzil	!	12:57
spevack	quaid: yes, i do	12:57
spevack	quaid: do you think that is right, or incomplete?	12:57
spevack	wonderer|chatzil: please go ahead	12:58
wonderer|chatzil	I also think speeches and talks are very important. But there are many events wich does not cost much and many ambassadors are from around.	12:58
quaid	spevack: I think that was unclear to some(?) NA regional coordinators; is that spelled out on a page, e.g., ranges of budget spending to how many activities Fedora does? As guidelines, that is.	12:59
wonderer|chatzil	so, travel and accomondation does not cost much. So there are many enthusiastic evangelists around.	12:59
spevack	wonderer|chatzil: to be clear, I am thinking about mid-size events and larger. For example FOSDEM -- I would have considered FOSDEM a waste of time without our devroom in which we were able to give a whole bunch of Fedora speeches. That room was packed almost non-stop	12:59
wonderer|chatzil	ok	12:59
spevack	quaid: noted. For better or worse, I try not to impose too many strict requirements on event organizers	13:00
spevack	but that doesn't stop me from expressing my personal preferences :)	13:01
spevack	i see some chatter in #fedora-ambassadors -- inode0, herlo, quaid -- anything that you guys want to add here?	13:01
herlo	spevack: suer	13:01
* sseiersen has comment		13:02
spevack	sseiersen: shoot	13:02
sseiersen	Should we talk with the documentation team about the Ambassador guide?	13:02
sseiersen	Get some assistance?	13:02
herlo	my thoughts are these, the requirements you put on an ambassador are large, and while it may seem insurmountable at first, we're not looking to make everyone do everything, just having a rounded knowledge is best. And that does take a little time	13:02
spevack	sseiersen: I'd defer to quaid on that. My initial thought would be that we should first try to figure out a general outline and get some content together, and the docs guys can probably help us formalize and professionalize what we're trying to do	13:03
spevack	herlo: that's a really good point	13:03
herlo	the thing is, give it a little bit of time and you'll be an expert. it really doesn't take much time at all to get up to speed, it's more about dedication...	13:03
herlo	and we're to help you grow	13:03
spevack	and if I'm coming across as too strong, I apologize for that. It's definitely a process. The first thing for an Ambassador to do is come to an event and just meet folks and watch how we operate.	13:04
spevack	you'll find your niche soon enough	13:04
spevack	like i said -- personal interaction is key	13:04
herlo	spevack: I have one more comment if that's okay	13:04
spevack	herlo: shoot	13:05
herlo	StabbyMc_ just mentioned that right now he has extra time to learn, and he suggested some milestones to accomplish. I think something like this is great. If you are a new ambassador and want to help define those milestones, that's what the process is all about. If you have time to learn, you can help define what those milestones should be for a new ambassador to get up to speed...	13:06
herlo	and in the process, we all learn...	13:06
* herlo is done		13:06
* fozzmoo thinks herlo is never done.		13:06
* RocknRoll i am totally free now		13:06
spevack	Let me try to articulate one of the points that I want to make in a slightly different way.	13:07
spevack	And that is this:	13:07
spevack	Take any random Fedora Ambassador.	13:07
spevack	kanarip is a great example	13:07
spevack	he's an engineer, a packager, etc.	13:07
spevack	he does a variety of different things within Fedora, and "abassador" is just one of the roles that he fills	13:07
spevack	I think that the most successful events and regional ambassador teams are ones that recognize that it is IMPOSSIBLE for one person to know everything about Fedora	13:08
spevack	and therefore are able to prioritize their most important events, and use those as magnets to bring	13:08
spevack	various fedora contributors together.	13:08
spevack	Take me for instance	13:08
spevack	I gave a speech at FOSDEM a few weeks ago, and I made damn sure to bring a few folks with me into the room who were very technical, and I told them and the audience ahead of time that if they have some specific technical questions that are going to go over my head, i've got some help	13:09
* herlo totally agrees with this point. An ambassador is not *everything* to *everyone*		13:10
* spevack notes that kanarip is telling him in real-time that I am not doing a proper job of explaining how awesome kanarip is :)		13:10
herlo	but they are the people on the ground, who are the Face of Fedora and should know where to look.	13:10
wonderer|chatzil	kanarip is the greatest... hua!	13:10
wonderer|chatzil	:-)	13:10
sseiersen	:)	13:10
spevack	any questions or comments? Am I explaining myself well?	13:10
kanarip	i'm not...	13:11
StabbyMc_	spevack: understood your points.	13:11
kanarip	crap	13:11
StabbyMc_	spevack: but you're talking about an ideal, yes?	13:11
spevack	inode0, quaid: anything you want to add?	13:11
spevack	kanarip: anything *you* want to add!	13:11
kanarip	i was trying to explain him that i'm just one example of what an ambassador could do... I'm there, i never man the booth, i speak just occasionally but i send out the "right" message	13:11
* StabbyMc_ is the only active ambassador in GA, so is an island unto himself.		13:11
cjg	sorry, a little question: how to start the ambassador activity?	13:12
* spevack notes that kanarip also enjoys long walks on the beach, and beer of any sort		13:12
spevack	cjg: you mean, how can you organize a new event?	13:12
kanarip	then there's people that get a speaker slot whenever they ask and talk to a lot of people outside of the fedora project during an event, and then there's people manning the booth, taking care of swag, doing all the stuff that i don't	13:12
kanarip	spevack, i also like jigsaw puzzles... maybe you're the last piece?	13:13
cjg	spevack, or partecipate to foss related events such as, for example, linux day o linux install fest	13:13
spevack	cjg: well, from the fedora perspective, there's two things I would recommend:	13:13
spevack	(1) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents	13:13
spevack	(2) attend the Ambassador meeting for whatever region of the world you are in.	13:14
spevack	cjg: where are you located?	13:14
cjg	Napoli, Italy	13:14
spevack	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings#Time_and_Place	13:14
spevack	cjg: perfect -- then you should come to our next EMEA ambassadors monthly meeting -- I actually run that meeting -- and we'll be able to put you in contact with a bunch of Ambassadors who we have in Italy.	13:15
spevack	cjg: we have a really active crew of ambassadors in italy who would love to involve you in what they do.	13:15
spevack	in the past year in italy, we've had a variety of smaller install-fest events, and also some slightly larger events	13:15
cjg	yes, i remember them	13:16
spevack	cjg: we're also planning the next European FUDCon	13:17
cjg	when he isn't organizing events what should an ambassador do?	13:17
spevack	cjg: great question!	13:17
spevack	sometimes that answer is simple, because the Ambassador does other stuff in Fedora, like packaging or working on the Websites team, etc.	13:17
spevack	But that isn't always the case	13:18
spevack	some people are superb ambassadors who simply organize a few events a year, and, like i said earlier, build a strong team of local contributors around them to help make the events successful	13:18
* RocknRoll i have a doubt		13:18
spevack	for those kinds of people, what I'd recommend doing between events is (a) generally keeping up with what's going on in Fedora by reading Fedora Weekly News, (b) keeping more or less up to date on fedora-ambassadors-list, and (c) ...	13:19
spevack	i can't remember	13:19
spevack	...	13:19
cjg	doh!	13:19
spevack	(c) oh, keeping in touch with other fedora contributors who live nearby you	13:19
spevack	RocknRoll: what's your doubt?	13:19
spevack	anyone else have comments, questions, etc?	13:20
RocknRoll	spevack: i am a college student . currently we are conducting an National level techfest in india . we have about 10,000 participants	13:20
RocknRoll	it scheduled on MAR 6,7&8 its going on..	13:20
spevack	RocknRoll: ok	13:20
spevack	RocknRoll: did you have more to say?	13:21
RocknRoll	spevack: where can i find the fedora ambassadors in my location .. so that i can arrange a video conference or some talks	13:21
RocknRoll	by tomorrow	13:22
RocknRoll	if possible	13:22
spevack	RocknRoll: well, we have several resources for ambassadors in India	13:22
rogersinel1	Is there are list of contributors? And where they live? For example I live in Sweden and would like to know if there are more Fedora contributors than the 2 than I allready know of.	13:22
spevack	RocknRoll: aside from fedora-ambassadors-list	13:22
spevack	there's #fedora-india	13:22
spevack	rogersinel1: yes, i'll address that shortly	13:22
spevack	and a fedora india mailing list	13:22
spevack	RocknRoll: are you on any of those lists or irc channels	13:23
RocknRoll	spevack: yes	13:23
spevack	RocknRoll: also, I'd be curious to know if you put your event on the FedoraEvents wiki page?	13:23
RocknRoll	i am in #fedora-india	13:23
RocknRoll	spevack: sure i will do it	13:24
spevack	RocknRoll: did you tell anyone in the Fedora India community about your event ahead of time and just get no responses?	13:24
spevack	RocknRoll: or did you not even know how to let people know about what the event is, etc.?	13:25
spevack	rogersinel1: we have a country list of Ambassadors	13:26
RocknRoll	spevack: no i have contacted a friend of mine who says about this fedora class then i came here	13:26
spevack	and I'll paste the wiki link in a moment	13:26
spevack	but let me note that it is deprecated, and that we are working on a better solution that pulls this information about of the Fedora Account System in an automated fashion	13:26
spevack	because the current page requires manual updating, which is obviously FAIL	13:26
spevack	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList	13:26
RocknRoll	spevack: for your reference the event site is www.psgkriya.org i am the site designer and one of the core team members	13:26
delhage	spevack: rogersinel1's question was not only about ambassadors, but all kinds of contributors	13:27
delhage	rogersinel1: right?	13:27
rogersinel1	delhage: right	13:27
spevack	RocknRoll: well, I can't imagine you'll have much luck getting people to your event tomorrow, given that it's already the middle of the night in India	13:27
spevack	RocknRoll: but in the general case for Fedora, you'll want to (a) add your event to the Fedora Events page and (b) talk about your event in your region's local meeting.	13:28
spevack	As such, two very important pages are:	13:28
spevack	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings	13:28
spevack	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents	13:28
* kanarip challenges spevack to a game of Fussbal		13:28
spevack	rogersinel1: i don't think we have a truly global contributor directory.	13:29
* sseiersen has question		13:29
spevack	anyone care to correct me?	13:29
spevack	sseiersen: you get the last comment	13:29
sseiersen	Where can I find the logs for the classes?	13:29
spevack	our time is up in 40 seconds	13:29
herlo	spevack: we don't, afaik	13:29
sseiersen	Cause I gtg.	13:29
spevack	but we'll move to #fedora-ambassadors to continue	13:29
RocknRoll	spevack: ok we are conducting another one within 1 month i will try for that :)	13:29
delhage	spevack: I am going to file a ticket about extracting that info from FAS	13:29
spevack	delhage: thanks	13:29
rogersinel1	spevack: ok	13:29
herlo	sseiersen: I'll put the logs up on the Classroom page shortly after each presentation...	13:29
delhage	just have forgotten about it	13:29
spevack	sseiersen: they will be posted at fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom -- the logs	13:30
@nirik	thank you for the class spevack !	13:30
spevack	nirik: my pleasure	13:30
sseiersen	ty	13:30
stickster	spevack: great job man :_0	13:30
delhage	thanks, spevack	13:30
spevack	thanks all -- follow up conversation in #fedora-ambassadors	13:30
stickster	:-)	13:30
-!- nirik changed the topic of #fedora-classroom to: Fedora IRC Classroom - Next class at 20:45UTC - See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom for class schedule today and more info.		13:30
RocknRoll	thanks spevack	13:30
* herlo announces the logs for the Shell scripting class are already live: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Introduction_to_bash_shell_scripting_Classroom_(20090307)		13:30
@nirik	15min break until the next class everyone.	13:31
wonderer|chatzil	thx herlo	13:31
StabbyMc_	It'll be probably a day or so until I can add content to that page :-)	13:31

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