Sep 18 18:00:53 Kevin_Kofler	Time to start the KDE SIG meeting. Who's present?
Sep 18 18:01:05 svahl	I'm here
Sep 18 18:01:38 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter? than?
Sep 18 18:02:23 rdieter	here too now
Sep 18 18:03:08 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE) meeting | Init
Sep 18 18:03:39 *	bpepple|lt hat die Verbindung getrennt ("Ex-Chat")
Sep 18 18:03:45 rdieter	I'm starting to think than doesn't exist again.
Sep 18 18:05:16 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter: :-(
Sep 18 18:05:22 Kevin_Kofler	So, let's start without him?
Sep 18 18:05:27 rdieter	afk (on the phone)...
Sep 18 18:06:08 svahl	we should do so. He's in the channel so he could read what we've discussed
Sep 18 18:06:34 Kevin_Kofler	OK, rdieter, when you're ready, let's start.
Sep 18 18:11:09 Kevin_Kofler	11 minutes late already, let's put the first topic on the table.
Sep 18 18:11:23 *	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE) meeting | kdesktop and symlinked wallpapers (#290571)
Sep 18 18:11:31 rdieter	go ahead, I'll be  5-10 minutes more...
Sep 18 18:12:31 Kevin_Kofler	So for some reason kdesktop chokes on symlinked desktop backgrounds.
Sep 18 18:12:34 Kevin_Kofler	This is really strange.
Sep 18 18:12:42 Kevin_Kofler	Normally symlinks should be transparent to applications.
Sep 18 18:13:51 rdieter	dumb idea: symlink -> hardlink instead?
Sep 18 18:14:13 Kevin_Kofler	The problem is that the link and link targets are in different packages AFAIK.
Sep 18 18:14:40 svahl	not anymore. now they are both in desktop-backgrounds-basic
Sep 18 18:15:40 Kevin_Kofler	Then it should not be a problem to hardlink these as a workaround, can you file a bug or something against desktop-backgrounds-basic?
Sep 18 18:15:47 svahl	sure
Sep 18 18:16:01 Kevin_Kofler	I still don't understand what's going wrong though. :-(
Sep 18 18:18:08 Kevin_Kofler	I think I'll scan the kdesktop code for "readlink".
Sep 18 18:18:26 Kevin_Kofler	That evil function is pretty much the only way a symlink can break where a regular file works.
Sep 18 18:18:46 Kevin_Kofler	Well, some fun games with stat could be it too, or maybe execv-ing "file" to figure out the MIME type.
Sep 18 18:20:13 Kevin_Kofler	No mention of "readlink" found in the kdebase-3.5.6/kdesktop directory (I used 3.5.6 because that's what I had untarred already).
Sep 18 18:20:57 Kevin_Kofler	I can't see any abuse of stat either.
Sep 18 18:21:43 Kevin_Kofler	Why this doesn't work is a mystery to me.
Sep 18 18:21:54 Kevin_Kofler	So I guess working around it is the right thing for now.
Sep 18 18:22:42 Kevin_Kofler	Anything else to add to this topic?
Sep 18 18:23:21 svahl	no. I'll open a bug against desktop-backgrounds-basic soon
Sep 18 18:23:35 Kevin_Kofler	OK, next topic.
Sep 18 18:23:36 *	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE) meeting | Needed fonts on the livecd
Sep 18 18:23:54 Kevin_Kofler	https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2007-September/msg00092.html
Sep 18 18:24:32 Kevin_Kofler	So my first thought here is that the dependency bloat really ought to be fixed in the first place.
Sep 18 18:24:34 svahl	I've answerd to that thread just a minute ago: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2007-September/msg00155.html
Sep 18 18:25:52 Kevin_Kofler	fonts-*-apl are definitely not required, APL is a programming language, and not a heavily-used one.
Sep 18 18:25:56 svahl	yeah. The problem seems to be that zenity installs some docs in /usr/share/gnome/help/ and so has yelp as a dependency
Sep 18 18:26:26 Kevin_Kofler	fonts-malayalam is pretty much the only one in your list I'm worried about.
Sep 18 18:26:40 Kevin_Kofler	The CJK stuff can go because there's one there already (cjkunifonts-uming).
Sep 18 18:27:26 svahl	I will re-read the discussion about the fonts on fedora-devel-list the next days and see what's the conclusion
Sep 18 18:27:32 Kevin_Kofler	ISO8859-2 should be covered by dejavu-lgc-fonts, and fonts-hebrew-fancy is per definition not a requirement. (That or the package name is misleading.)
Sep 18 18:27:52 svahl	atm I only use the ones that are defined as "mandatory" or "required" in base-x in comps.xml 
Sep 18 18:28:22 Kevin_Kofler	Right. I think fonts-malayalam should be brought up, the omission from the default font list is probably a mistake.
Sep 18 18:28:40 Kevin_Kofler	The others should be optional, as the respective languages are already covered by a base font.
Sep 18 18:29:56 Kevin_Kofler	Actually, there's 3 CJK fonts in the base list already: uming is C, sazanami-fonts-gothic is J and fonts-korean is K.
Sep 18 18:30:18 Kevin_Kofler	So the optional ones can definitely be omitted.
Sep 18 18:31:01 Kevin_Kofler	fonts-malayalam is the only suspect one in the list.
Sep 18 18:32:19 Kevin_Kofler	I wonder if there's any progress on the actual dependency bloat though.
Sep 18 18:32:30 Kevin_Kofler	Anaconda depending on Firefox is pretty dumb.
Sep 18 18:32:58 rdieter	is there any bugs filed on this (yet)?
Sep 18 18:33:08 rdieter	(for tracking purposes)
Sep 18 18:33:28 svahl	not yet
Sep 18 18:33:52 rdieter	svahl: interested in doing so?  (if not, I can)
Sep 18 18:34:05 svahl	against which package should it be opened? zenity or yelp?
Sep 18 18:34:24 Kevin_Kofler	Yelp legitimately requires Firefox because it uses Gecko.
Sep 18 18:34:41 Kevin_Kofler	(Waiting for xulrunner there...)
Sep 18 18:34:58 Kevin_Kofler	But the zenity->yelp dependency should be droppable.
Sep 18 18:35:14 Kevin_Kofler	I think the conclusion was that all those extra dependencies on yelp did more harm than good.
Sep 18 18:35:16 svahl	from zenity.spec: # for /usr/share/gnome/help 
Sep 18 18:35:16 svahl	Requires: yelp
Sep 18 18:35:33 svahl	so it should be against zenity
Sep 18 18:36:01 Kevin_Kofler	Yes, IMHO that's the place to break the dep abuse.
Sep 18 18:36:26 Kevin_Kofler	... chain.
Sep 18 18:37:34 rdieter	I think there needs to be a gnome-filesystem like we have a kde-filesystem pkg for dir ownership issues like this.
Sep 18 18:37:55 svahl	+1
Sep 18 18:38:07 Kevin_Kofler	That would probably solve a lot of this madness, yes.
Sep 18 18:38:16 Kevin_Kofler	But the KDE meeting is the wrong place to decide on that. ;-)
Sep 18 18:38:42 rdieter	sure, point is, it isn't or shouldn't be our problem, true.
Sep 18 18:39:03 Kevin_Kofler	We should suggest that in the fedora-desktop-list though.
Sep 18 18:39:21 rdieter	and in the bug-to-be-filed. :)
Sep 18 18:39:27 Kevin_Kofler	Right.
Sep 18 18:39:28 rdieter	as only a suggestion, of course.
Sep 18 18:39:40 Kevin_Kofler	The (GNOME) Desktop Team can then do with it what they want.
Sep 18 18:40:25 Kevin_Kofler	So, next topic?
Sep 18 18:40:33 jima	sounds like a good idea, even to someone who isn't necessarily drinking the kde flavor-aid (although i do use it).
Sep 18 18:41:18 svahl	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=295091
Sep 18 18:41:42 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG meeting (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-09-18) | space/deps on livecd
Sep 18 18:42:01 Kevin_Kofler	svahl: sounds good.
Sep 18 18:42:08 svahl	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList
Sep 18 18:42:24 svahl	thx
Sep 18 18:42:42 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter: isn't this essentially what we've just discussed?
Sep 18 18:42:52 rdieter	I just updated the meeting URL. :)
Sep 18 18:43:07 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG meeting (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-09-18) | kde4 reviews
Sep 18 18:43:09 rdieter	better?
Sep 18 18:43:17 svahl	ok :)
Sep 18 18:43:39 Kevin_Kofler	Good, so I'm going to paste the URLs again:
Sep 18 18:43:42 rdieter	anything to say other than reviews are needed?  any help would be appreciated?
Sep 18 18:43:48 Kevin_Kofler	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=289231
Sep 18 18:43:50 Kevin_Kofler	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=289241
Sep 18 18:43:52 Kevin_Kofler	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=289251
Sep 18 18:44:21 Kevin_Kofler	Indeed, reviews are really needed for these. If we want them to make test3, we have only ~1 week left.
Sep 18 18:44:38 rdieter	and now kde-filesystem-3.9x is built for rawhide, yay.
Sep 18 18:44:50 Kevin_Kofler	Indeed.
Sep 18 18:45:17 rdieter	looks like if we want multilib'ness to be strictly correct, it needs Requires: redhat-rpm-config (like qt4 did).
Sep 18 18:45:28 rdieter	but I'm not sure if it's worth it here.
Sep 18 18:45:43 rdieter	qt4 needed it for runtime, here we only need it for building pkgs.
Sep 18 18:46:00 rdieter	(but I'm straying off into the weeds here)
Sep 18 18:46:44 Kevin_Kofler	I think we can do without the Requires there.
Sep 18 18:46:49 rdieter	I'm done reading my latest book, so instead of staying up late tonight reading, I'll see about slamming out a few reviews... :)
Sep 18 18:47:04 Kevin_Kofler	That would be great.
Sep 18 18:47:40 rdieter	And (re)building these for the kde-redhat/unstable repo for broader testing/exposure.
Sep 18 18:47:56 Kevin_Kofler	Oh, and if someone figures out why Dolphin in kdebase4 only works when started from the command line and not from the menu, that would be great too...
Sep 18 18:48:10 rdieter	creepy, that is...
Sep 18 18:48:30 Kevin_Kofler	It probably has something to do with kdeinit.
Sep 18 18:49:01 Kevin_Kofler	When running in Konsole, bash runs the executable directly.
Sep 18 18:49:21 Kevin_Kofler	In the menu, the KDE application running stuff is used.
Sep 18 18:50:02 Kevin_Kofler	But it shouldn't be seeing kdeinit4_* files, and Dolphin doesn't even have one...
Sep 18 18:50:17 Kevin_Kofler	So I don't have a good explanation of what's going on yet.
Sep 18 18:51:31 rdieter	oh well, anything else to discuss?
Sep 18 18:51:39 *	Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG meeting (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-09-18) | Free discussion
Sep 18 18:52:17 Kevin_Kofler	Well, if there's nothing more urgent, I'll just throw a wild idea here: What about creating a Fedora Mathematics Lab spin like Chitlesh's FEL one?
Sep 18 18:52:39 Kevin_Kofler	Based on KDE too, but with stuff like Octave, Maxima, Kile, Lyx etc. on it.
Sep 18 18:52:45 rdieter	worksforme. :)
Sep 18 18:53:19 rdieter	including tex will bloat it a bunch... but would be cool to pull off.
Sep 18 18:53:20 Kevin_Kofler	If only the day had 48 hours. ;-)
Sep 18 18:53:27 rdieter	so true.
Sep 18 18:53:54 rdieter	basing on kde live, and +/-'ing a few things shouldn't be *too* hard.
Sep 18 18:54:11 rdieter	heck, could be something for f8 release, when we have more spare time on our hands...
Sep 18 18:54:23 rdieter	s/for f8 release/for post-f8 release/ I meant
Sep 18 18:54:48 Kevin_Kofler	It shouldn't be too hard, yes.
Sep 18 18:55:09 svahl	yes. It would be only some mixing of the package list
Sep 18 18:55:31 rdieter	could go crazy and make it > cd size too.
Sep 18 18:55:39 svahl	maybe :)
Sep 18 18:56:13 svahl	what's about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=244930 (kmail filtering on imap accounts)? rdieter: you've written something on kde-redhat-devel-list
Sep 18 18:56:55 rdieter	an outstanding kdepim-3.5.7 bug.  other distros are backing out to kdepim-3.5.6 and/or switching to kdepim enterprise branch.  I'd lean toward doing the latter...
Sep 18 18:57:06 rdieter	tho not much work has been done to make that happen yet.
Sep 18 18:57:15 Kevin_Kofler	I guess I should get TiLP (software to link with TI calculators under the GPLv2+) and dependencies through review, it might be useful on a Mathematics Lab spin too.
Sep 18 18:57:33 rdieter	awesome, I'm sure everywhere 'round here with TI's would appreciate it.
Sep 18 18:57:51 rdieter	everyone too.
Sep 18 18:58:07 rdieter	enough crazy talk, if there's nothing else, let's wrapup to avoid getting kicked out today.
Sep 18 18:58:08 Kevin_Kofler	Right now it's up at http://repo.calcforge.org/fedora/ , the libti* and tilp2 packages need just minor cleanups.
Sep 18 18:58:23 rdieter	yeah, that 48hours-in-a-day thing...
Sep 18 18:58:24 Kevin_Kofler	Other packages up there need more work though. :-)
Sep 18 18:58:52 rdieter	for other "math" software, I could justifiy spending more on-the-clock time @ work to help with... :)
Sep 18 18:59:27 Kevin_Kofler	Downgrading kdepim to 3.5.6 or enterprise-branch will also mean losing the new libopensync-based KitchenSync though.
Sep 18 18:59:52 rdieter	for kdepim-3.5.6 yeah, kdepim-enterprise too?
Sep 18 18:59:58 Kevin_Kofler	And then we'll have fun like having the obsoleted syncekonnector being needed again.
Sep 18 19:00:08 Kevin_Kofler	I don't know what's exactly in the enterprise branch.
Sep 18 19:00:32 rdieter	phew, well, we'll have to find out.
Sep 18 19:00:37 rdieter	thanks all.
Sep 18 19:00:52 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule
Sep 18 19:01:02 Kevin_Kofler	I just checked, they're using libopensync in kitchensync in kdepim-enterprise.
Sep 18 19:01:16 rdieter	cool (that was fast!) :)
Sep 18 19:01:27 *	rdieter goes to refill coffee