[Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:07] Topic The channel topic is "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-06-09". [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:07] Topic The topic was set by Kevin_Kofler on 06/09/2009 06:02:37 PM. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:07] Nick stickster is now known as stickster_afk. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:10] Channel [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:20] What do we have to discuss? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:26] The agenda is mostly empty. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:31] 4.2,4 state [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:37] Yeah, right. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:39] celebrate the F11 release [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:45] enough of agenda :) [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:52] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside, no colors allowed [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:52] Created This channel was created on 01/18/2007 08:10:56 PM. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:04:55] Also enabling kde-plasma-nm by default in F12 Rawhide. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:05:10] I'm going to update the agenda with these. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:05:14] speaking of 4.2.4, updates have been just composed [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:05:25] ltinkl: we have to celebrate, yes! and I have to blog about it :D [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:05:30] Nick Nickname already in use, try a different one. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:05:45] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-06-09 - Fedora 11 release party :)". [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:05:55] OK, let's start with the F11 celebrations. :-) [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:06:04] Join lainwir3d has joined this channel (n=lainwir3@fedora/SePhIr0tH). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:06:27] F11 is now available, for us this means PolicyKit KDE integration and the new KPackageKit 0.4.x. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:06:53] Kevin_Kofler: which seems to be crashing ma kded4 (packagekit)... [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:06:57] s/ma/my [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:07:09] Incompatible PackageKit and KPackageKit? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:07:18] Join nucleo has joined this channel (n=nucleo@80.73.6.156). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:07:19] I don't know, just looking on it [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:07:23] You need KPackageKit 0.4.1 with PackageKit 0.4.8, KPackageKit 0.4.0 with 0.4.6. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:07:57] If you got PK 0.4.8 from updates-testing, you need the kpackagekit 0.4.1 from Koji (queued for testing in the next updates push). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:08:03] Quit nphilipp has left this server ("Leaving"). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:08:11] is kde-plasma-nm stable enough to enable it as default? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:08:12] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/kpackagekit-0.4.1-3.fc11,PackageKit-0.4.8-1.fc11 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:08:18] http://fpaste.org/paste/14463 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:08:22] Notice -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all! This coming Thursday (June 11th) we'll be pruning the Services database, removing expired nicks and channels. Please make sure you IDENTIFY to NickServ to ensure you don't get disappointed. A few more of these notices will be forthcoming in the next 24-36 hours and we ask you visit http://bit.ly/10nqla for more information. Thank you for using freenode and have a good evening! [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:08:33] it's default one, no mixture of testing and updates... [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:08:49] than: Can we discuss this later? I'd prefer discussing one topic at a time. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:08:51] but lets celebrate, I'll try to summarize it to blog post again :D [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:09:02] as for F10 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:09:07] jreznik: rpm -q PackageKit kpackagekit [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:09:19] Oh, and PackageKit-qt, just in case. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:09:45] The bug looks a lot like the wrong version mix. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:09:56] ok I'll try to update to 0.4.1 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:09:59] PackageKit-0.4.8-0.1222.20090510git.fc11.i586 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:09:59] kpackagekit-0.4.0-7.fc11.i586 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:10:10] Right, that's the problem. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:10:23] Apparently this is a 0.4.8 build from before the one which hit updates-testing recently. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:10:28] I don't know how you ended up with that one. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:10:36] I don't have any clue :D [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:10:43] Join Nirmal has joined this channel (n=npathak@nat/redhat-in/x-83b5fcf3bb177106). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:11:01] Quit danielbruno has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:11:02] I suggest upgrading PackageKit and PackageKit-qt to the 0.4.8 release (0.4.8-1.fc11) and kpackagekit to 0.4.1-3.fc11. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:12:35] Join charlymanja has joined this channel (n=charlyma@189.181.13.196). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:12:49] ok, something more to f11? release party? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:15:35] Join biertie_laptop has joined this channel (n=bert@91.181.64.82). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:15:37] Looks like not... [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:15:41] Let's move on. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:15:46] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-06-09 - KDE 4.2.4". [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:15:52] Next topic: KDE 4.2.4 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:16:06] Quit jensm has left this server ("Verlassend"). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:16:15] ltinkl has prepared grouped updates. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:16:18] Part mcepl has left this channel. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:16:42] ye, updates prepared for F9/F10/F11 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:16:49] ltinkl, could you please give some infos to kde-4.2.4 state? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:17:18] as I said above :) won't post the links as they are too long [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:17:20] There's no extragear stuff in those though. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:17:29] I know we have konq-plugins built already, can you add them? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:17:39] ok [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:17:52] Kevin_Kofler, we can push extragear stuff later [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:18:04] Speaking of updates, Qt 4.5.1 and Amarok 2.1 are now queued for stable, just waiting for the next push. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:18:22] rel-eng has been focusing on getting F11 and the new F12 Rawhide out, so they didn't do pushes lately. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:18:31] Rawhide took almost 3 whole days to compose. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:18:40] I'll push my updated built agains 4.2.4 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:18:54] Composing updates at the same time would have made it take even longer, as it's done on the same hardware. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:19:03] Quit jreznik has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:19:56] Join tatica_ has joined this channel (n=tatica@host-190-15-166-54.movilmax.com). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:21:11] OK, anything else about 4.2.4? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:21:20] Otherwise let's move on to the NM stuff. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:21:53] Join svahl_ has joined this channel (n=svahl__@p4FC9A9D4.dip.t-dialin.net). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:21:55] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-06-09 - kde-plasma-networkmanagement by default for F12". [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:21:59] OK, next topic: kde-plasma-networkmanagement by default for F12 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:22:02] So this is my proposal. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:22:05] It would take: [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:22:23] 1. modifying kdebase-workspace to pull in kde-plasma-nm in the default workspace for new users and [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:22:34] 2. changing comps to pull it in by default instead of NM-gnome [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:22:59] for F12? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:23:06] how stable is it ? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:23:24] from blogs it seems they have hacking week [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:23:24] I suggest doing it right now in Rawhide because 1. it's Rawhide, 2. the plasmoid needs testing, 3. other distros (Kubuntu, openSUSE) are already shipping it by default and 4. it mostly works (works perfectly for me, some others reported trouble though). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:23:37] And they're working on fixing the issues we had right now. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:23:46] notice kde-plasma-networkmanagement is currently undergoing heavy changes [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:23:47] Giving it testing early should help everyone. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:23:58] For F9, F10 and F11, we won't change the default. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:24:17] and we can fall back in case of emergency [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:24:22] We'll just make updates available for supported releases, but users have to install it by hand if they want it. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:24:25] it's ok for rawhide [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:24:38] it doesn't hurt to make it default in rawhiie [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:24:38] Yes, changing back as contingency is always possible. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:24:49] well, the hacking weekend didn't turn out to be a great success :) instead, they rewrote much of its internals resulting in a broken state right now [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:25:04] I'll do the necessary kdebase-workspace and comps changes. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:25:11] ltinkl: :-( [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:25:23] Why do the KDE 4 folks always want to rewrite everything instead of fixing it? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:25:35] see http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3977 [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:25:52] (Will Stephenson's blogpost) [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:26:09] quoting: The status of Network Management as of Sunday 7 June then is that it doesn't even compile. I'm working on remedying that as soon as possible. If you do want to use Network Management from SVN, take a safe revision like r978079 until you hear otherwise. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:26:25] Quit johe_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:26:34] yes, it's broken now and doesn't build [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:26:52] so lets wait one, two weeks until they reach runnable state [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:26:58] so I'd postpone the decision to make it default until they fix it a bit :) [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:27:08] Join johe_ has joined this channel (n=jstephan@vpndfki-2.net.uni-saarland.de). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:27:10] We can ship the latest working revision. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:28:19] We have 976742 now, we can update to 978079 if there's something useful in the changes. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:28:20] yes, but question is how big changes we're dealing now... [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:28:30] Quit biertie has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:28:49] I'm fed up of shipping GNOME stuff in the KDE spin and I think we should kick it out now. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:28:57] Otherwise we end up postponing the decision again. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:29:17] We've been shipping NM-gnome in 4 consecutive releases, that's 4 too many! [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:29:25] definitely, but I'd suggest waiting with that a bit more, after all it's rawhide and we still have a lot of time until the next release [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:29:35] nm-applet has really big usability problems, but at least - it's working [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:29:55] left/right button - it's really confusing [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:29:56] Quit tatica_ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:30:25] I read in a blogpost that the nm-applet are planning to do a big UI rewrite as well for the next version :) [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:30:31] Quit kulll has left this server ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:30:34] yeah [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:30:36] nm-applet devels * [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:31:07] so who knows, the KDE applet might be the less broken one in the end :D [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:31:07] I think we should change the default now. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:31:23] I don't think it will take more than a couple weeks to sort out the kinks in the current snapshot. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:31:28] Of course we won't ship a broken one. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:31:35] Join kulll has joined this channel (i=d318e240@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2f421cb0997901de). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:31:38] Join petreu| has joined this channel (n=peter@p3EE3FD5C.dip.t-dialin.net). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:31:42] The one we have is from before the reorganizations. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:32:23] Quit mintos has left this server ("Leaving"). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:32:58] Kevin_Kofler, it's fine with me if you want to take care of it for rawhide [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:33:19] Nick biertie_laptop is now known as biertie. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:33:21] That was my plan. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:33:22] Quit svahl has left this server (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:33:44] Join kital has joined this channel (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:34:00] ok, let's do it, it's rawhide [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:34:52] I'm not really happy with upstream putting things in an uncompilable, untestable state though. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:35:05] Such reorganizations really need to be done in a way which keeps the code compilable at any time. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:35:29] Even if it means having temporary wrappers which just call the original function. It's more work because you have to write throwaway code, but it keeps it working! [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:35:42] Quit mchua_nom has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:36:09] Join mchua_nom has joined this channel (n=mchua@66.187.234.199). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:36:37] But that's not something we can change. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:36:51] Is there anything else to discuss? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:37:01] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-06-09 - Open Discussion". [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:37:31] Who'll take care of the summary today? jreznik_? svahl_? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:37:38] jreznik_: I'll do it [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:37:44] :DD [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:37:55] maybe that aseigo branding blog post [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:38:36] I don't like usptream decision about us without us... [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:38:42] it's like munich betrade :D [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:06] Join Cheshirc_ has joined this channel (n=mj@unaffiliated/cheshirc). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:18] Quit svahl_ has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:38] I've already answered this a couple times on #fedora-kde and the fedora-kde ML. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:53] From the ML: [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:55] As I already wrote on IRC, I don't think this offer is of much value to [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:55] Fedora at this point because we don't have our logo in the wallpaper anyway [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:55] (to make things easier for remixes and other derived distributions). So if [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:55] we really wanted to ship upstream wallpapers, we could just ship them as [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:55] they are, there's no need to have upstream spend time on rebranding them. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:55] Quit Cheshirc has left this server (No route to host). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:57] We have other reasons for using our own default wallpapers (e.g. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:59] Kevin_Kofler: remove #fedora-meeting Kevin_Kofler : Please don't flood the channel, use a pastebin link like http://fpaste.org/ or http://dpaste.com [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:40:59] consistency across the multiple desktops we ship, and also GRUB, Plymouth [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:01] etc.). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:03] There are also other issues, like what to do when we upgrade KDE to a new [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:05] version: do we allow the default wallpaper to change in the middle of a [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:06] Kevin_Kofler: remove #fedora-meeting Kevin_Kofler : Please don't flood the channel, use a pastebin link like http://fpaste.org/ or http://dpaste.com [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:07] Fedora release? Do we stay with the old one, shipping e.g. KDE 4.4 with the [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:09] KDE 4.3 default wallpaper? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:14] Kevin_Kofler: remove #fedora-meeting Kevin_Kofler : Please don't flood the channel, use a pastebin link like http://fpaste.org/ or http://dpaste.com [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:22] Kevin_Kofler: remove #fedora-meeting Kevin_Kofler : Please don't flood the channel, use a pastebin link like http://fpaste.org/ or http://dpaste.com [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:30] Kevin_Kofler: remove #fedora-meeting Kevin_Kofler : Please don't flood the channel, use a pastebin link like http://fpaste.org/ or http://dpaste.com [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:36] Whoops... ;-) [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:41:54] no ban? :D [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:42:15] oops. sorry about that. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:42:19] * nirik will fix the bot. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:42:26] To kick me instead? ^^ [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:42:32] Sorry for having upset the bot. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:42:32] * nirik isn't sure how it started doing that here. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:42:41] Kevin_Kofler: sorry. ;( [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:43:48] hh [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:44:05] So any other reactions to Aaron's post? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:44:10] ok, so we don't agree with upstream, that's my position :D [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:44:23] Kevin_Kofler: I sent reaction as user Rezza to that blog... [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:44:27] * nirik has fixed it. Sorry again. [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:44:30] same what you mentioned here [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:45:15] Kevin_Kofler, url to the blog? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:46:05] than: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/06/building-brand-together.html [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:47:57] Quit nucleo has left this server ("KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090224, built on: 2009/04/10 00:08:50 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/"). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:47:59] Join tkjacobsen has joined this channel (n=quassel@84-238-115-154.u.parknet.dk). [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:48:52] Anything else? Or let's close the meeting for today? [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:49:45] all from me [Tue Jun 9 2009] [18:50:10] let close th meeting. we can talk in fedora-kde