10:03  * f13 joins the call
10:03 < mspevack> Jesse, Seth, Matt, Max, Bill are on the phone
10:03  * mspevack pulls up his agenda
10:05 < rdieter> be there in a jiffy folks.
10:06 < mmcgrath> yarg
10:06 < mspevack> hi mike
10:06 < mmcgrath> Morning Max.
10:07 < mspevack> Rahul is here
10:09 < mspevack> Greg is here now.. Jeremy is calling in, then we will start...
10:10 < mspevack> starting with build system status and fedora 7 schedule slip
10:11 < mspevack> the schedule slip is official -- we can message that out to f-announce-l again
10:11  * mspevack missed the build system update, he fell off the call.
10:12 < mspevack> can someone else summarize what jesse's been saying?
10:13 < mspevack> the gist of it, from what I can tell, is that progress has been a bit slow.  We've got the code out, and Jesse has been working on it.  But some of the other RH engineers who are very familiar with the code are busy with RHEL5, so we don't have much of their help right now.  We'll have more help within the next couple of weeks.
10:13 < mspevack> mspevack -- is there anything we need to do, or just a question of people's time freeing up?
10:14 < mspevack> jesse -- the latter. mmcgrath is tasked with finding us a bunch of NFS space.  He may need some help with that.  If he does, he will poke mspevack.
10:14 < mspevack> seth -- 500 gigs to 1 terabyte for a year's worth of builds for everything was the first estimate
10:15 < mspevack> jesse -- that might be sufficient.  kernels take up a lot of space, and we're building for x86, x86_64, and ppc.
10:15 < mmcgrath> mspevack: ping me after the meeting
10:16 < mspevack> seth -- I thought we had dropped ppc as a primary arch?
10:16 < mspevack> jesse -- we need to finish the secondary arch stuff first.
10:17 < mspevack> greg -- additionally, IBM has been asking Fedora a bit about whether any of their additional engineering efforts, to help get PPC built, could help keep PPC as a primary arch.
10:17 < mspevack> so this is a pretty early on topic, but Fedora should start to think about whether a "primary arch" is determined by engineering resources and quality, or if it's those things PLUS some sort of minimal amount of users.
10:18 < mspevack> jesse makes a fair point that the number of Fedora PPC users is incredibly small compared to other arches.
10:18 < mspevack> right now this is just a early-stage conversation, but it's something that the Board needs to think about.
10:20 < mspevack> matt -- i think "number of users" is interesting.  many of them are probably already at IBM.  could be higher than all other Fedora PPC users combined.  If IBM does free up people to do the triage, testing, package fixing for issues that are caused by PPC, then that could be a very good thing.
10:20 < mspevack> seth -- from the account system perspective, there shouldn't be any difficulty.
10:21 < mmcgrath> Can't we just let them create a PPC spin and have IBM maintain it then?
10:21 < skvidal> mmcgrath: yah, that's what I just said :)
10:21 < mmcgrath> oh
10:22 < mspevack> bill -- as of now, there's not much contribution coming out of IBM right now for PPC...
10:24 < dwmw2> that's partly because we haven't actually asked for it. PPC ticks along quite nicely without really needing much engineering resource.
10:24 < mspevack> SUMMARY -- since we need to move on -- Fedora needs to be able to solve the general case of saying "here's what is required to make something a primary arch" and allowing people the freedom to make it happen.
10:24 < f13> (and ppc isn't going way until secondary arch stuff is solid)
10:24 < mspevack> dwmw2: I have a couple thousand PPC dvds that folks are saying I should mail to you one at a time.  :-)
10:24 < dwmw2> heh
10:26 < mspevack> trying to extend fc5 lifecycle a bit longer?  yes or no?
10:27 < mspevack> jesse -- i'd like to let it go and see the developer time spent for fedora 7.
10:27 < mspevack> greg -- i think we've got enough going on, that starting another front in which we ask for 3 more months of fc5 devel isn't worth fighting
10:27  * thl wonders if some people actually already assumed FC-5 has a longer lifecycle
10:28 < mspevack> for the future distros (F7 and later), things are open and so the community's work can continue to extend the lifecycle (the 13 month goal)
10:28 < mspevack> for fc5 and fc6, unfortunately, things are still set up the "old way"
10:29 < Bob-Laptop> Good
10:31 < mspevack> greg-- what are we doing to keep our promises for a 13 months fc6 and f7 release cycle?
10:32 < mspevack> jesse -- for Fedora 7, the open build system will allow package maintainers (RHAT and community) to continue to work on packages to 13 months (or 2 releases + 1 month)
10:34 < mspevack> Bill -- for Fedora Core 5, feature updates can end after f7-test2, but we can continue to provide security updates until f7 release + 1 month
10:34  * stickster_work hops on line listen-only
10:35 < mspevack> that requires buy-in from RH Security team and communication with Eng management.  Bill will follow up with those guys and write back to us.
10:35 < mspevack> and then we can write this down in a nice, understandable format and publish it, so people have time to know what we're doing.
10:36  * stickster_work has the beginning of a public notice for this; he's holding it until this is finalized.
10:37 < mspevack> rex -- IRC meeting later today with Than and Florian to chat about KDE
10:37 < mspevack> rex -- the goal is to bridge the gap between RH eng and community eng in what co-maintainership of Fedora is going to look like for KDE.
10:38 < f13> rdieter: why use #fedora-devel instead of #fedora-meeting?
10:41 < mspevack> next topic will be a brief discussion of what the plans for FOSDEM are.
10:42 < mspevack> in short, max will be there, it's shaping up to be a great event, and there will be significant opportunity to meet with and chat with CentOS folks, strengthen that relationship
10:42  * rdieter doesn't care where the meetings occur.
10:43 < f13> rdieter: k.  Makes #fedora-devel somewhat hard to use when there is a meeting there, and thats kind of why we created this chan, so that you could idle and catch all kinds of fun meetings (:
10:43 < stickster_work> mspevack: What, no tri/quad band phone? :-)
10:44 < rdieter> f13: agreed, #fedora-meeting it is.
10:52 < stickster_work> max -- goes on to talk about Artwork project and how we can have a mutually agreeable workspace btw. Desktop team and the community
10:52  * Bob-Laptop just got a bunch of dwmw2's PPC DVDs
10:53 < stickster_work> Some community members have made significant contributions to Echo
10:54 < stickster_work> That pushes any line drawn *at least* in front of that work IMHO
11:00 < stickster_work> A lot of the technical specs for theming are in fact doc'd on the wiki IIRC
11:03 < stickster_work> Have fun at FOSDEM Max
11:03 < stickster_work> bye all