[Di Jan 8 2008] [17:03:35] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-08 -- Init". [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:04:29] KDE SIG meeting start, who's present today? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:04:43] Present. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:04:50] present [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:05:32] present [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:05:56] wee, ok let's get rolling [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:06:00] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-08 -- KDE 4.0.0 final". [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:06:13] kde-4.0.0 release imminent. woo hoo [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:06:26] looks like we've got most things cvs'd, built. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:06:40] We got about half of it built, but we decided to untag it because upstream doesn't want us to push it before the official release. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:06:44] at request of upstream, we untagged pkgs that were built for rawhide yesterday [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:07:04] the list of pkgs built (and currently untagged) include: [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:07:13] extragear-plasma-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdeaccessibility-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdeadmin-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdeartwork-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdebase-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdebase-runtime-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdebase-workspace-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdelibs-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdepimlibs-4.0.0-1.fc9 kdesdk-4.0.0-1.fc9 soprano-2.0.0-1.fc9 [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:07:30] I'll (re)tag these Friday. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:07:49] Also kaider-4.0.0-1.fc9 which I built and which I untagged myself. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:08:04] ah, I'll add that to my list (to it'll get retagged). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:08:24] Kevin_Kofler: does the new soprano-2.0 break API? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:08:44] I think it does, that's why the new KDE requires it. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:08:51] Kevin_Kofler: otherwise it's not needed to untag it [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:09:20] Better avoid making a mess, it's not hard to retag it along with the other stuff. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:09:44] IIRC there's some changes which are API-incompatible both ways, that's why we didn't upgrade Soprano yet. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:12:02] anything else to mention on kde-4.0.0? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:12:34] the simple menu is integrated and seems to be working quite fine [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:12:56] svahl said on #fedora-kde that 4.0.0 "seems to have some new problems". What are they? :-) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:13:39] no wallpaper (only white screen), no module for configuring the wallpapaper in systemsettings. same module not really working in desktop context menu. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:14:13] logout menu has the same problems like in 3.97.0 [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:14:15] I believe there's a fix already in SVN, it didn't make it into the tarballs. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:14:20] (for the wallpaper one) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:14:26] At least I believe that's the case. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:14:35] on the desktop there is a icon for trash, but it's not starting dolphin properly (malformed url) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:14:47] Maybe this is why they don't want us to release early, they may be working on respun tarballs. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:15:18] If not, I guess we should backport the fix from SVN. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:15:20] that's all I've figured out so far. Oh. and here (Ahtlon 2400+, 1 gig ram) it's quite slow [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:15:38] fwiw, it sounds like 4.0.1 and subsequent updates will be coming quite quickly (3-4 weeks apart). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:15:55] and also there are some missing icons (mostly in add widgets menu) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:16:11] The trash URL should be fixable easily, if it isn't fixed upstream already. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:16:42] on my test live image the login is broken. lnusertmp isn't working but I've not figured out why, yet [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:16:44] svahl: could you please report such problems to kde upstream ? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:17:11] than_home: I'll try if I find the time today [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:18:21] oh. and in systemsettings/kdm there's no button to become root [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:18:36] that's all from my half-an-hour-test [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:21:33] I think we really should get the kde-l10n mess sorted out. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:21:45] 1. Check if 4.0.0 now builds. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:21:45] Oh, and here's the current list of bugs found so far: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/KDE4LiveBugs (thanks svahl!) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:22:08] than_home: can you work on the kde-l10n bits? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:22:11] 2. If it does, put it into CVS. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:22:13] the list is collected from the mails on fedora-test-list for the former kde 4 live image [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:22:46] 3. Drop the stuff which is already in kde-l10n from the KDE 3 kde-i18n. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:23:08] when/if we can get a newer image to test, we can all see which ones still exist and/or confirm them, and get these reported (either to feodra's or kde's bz whichever makes more sense). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:23:18] We only need the old kde-i18n stuff for the modules which are still KDE 3 versions (kdepim, kdewebdev, kdevelop, maybe some of kdelibs and kdebase). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:23:25] rdieter: sure, can we now commit kde-l10n into CVS? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:23:30] Kevin_Kofler: +1 (that's going to be fun) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:23:38] I sent the CVS request. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:23:42] It has to be executed though. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:23:57] We have to wait for a CVS admin. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:24:10] rdieter set the fedora-review+ flag. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:24:18] than_home, Kevin_Kofler: just checked, looks like the cvsadmin request is still pending. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:24:40] after the meeing, I'll go see who to ping to speed that up. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:24:47] * nirik will be processing the cvs queue in a bit unless someone else beats him to it. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:24:50] rdieter: great, [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:24:57] nirik: thx! [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:25:49] rdieter: please let me know when it's done. so i can commit it [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:26:08] than_home: you're cc'd on the bz review, so you'll get email too when it's done. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:27:41] let's move on... [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:27:51] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-08 -- preparing for Fedora 9 Alpha". [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:28:02] just to understand this: Is kde-l10n replacing kde-i18n? I've thought l10n is for things like flags, symbols and i18n is the translation? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:28:06] much the same here, (kde-4.0.0 preparation). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:28:19] l10n is the new i18n. :) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:28:29] kde-i18n was renamed to kde-l10n in KDE 4. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:28:32] that's my understanding anyway. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:28:39] mhh. ok. thx [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:30:05] see also: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule for Alpha release [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:30:12] svahl: for the record, l10n is the actual translation, i18n the system that let's people do l10n [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:30:21] The F9 alpha freeze is on Jan 15, we should have 4.0.0 in by then. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:30:22] couf: thx [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:31:24] i'm not sure if https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=427442 got fixed in time for 4.0.0, if not, the patch should be included in our packaging asap. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:31:25] Bug 427442: low, low, ---, Matthias Clasen, NEW , System tray icons on an argb visual results in crash [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:31:47] I think it only got fixed for 4.0.1 and 4.1. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:31:55] that's what I thought. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:32:11] else, our alpha release will have nm-applet crashing all over (again). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:32:31] But the fix is said to uglify the panel, if it makes things worse for KDE systray icons, I'm not sure it's that great an idea. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:32:57] my understanding was that it was ugly only for the (misbehaving) gtk applets. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:33:19] is there any progress upstream to support nm-0.7? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:33:20] ugly is still better than broken/crashing. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:34:12] svahl: sadly no. Nor is there any firm time-table for a nm-0.7 final release (sounds like it won't make f9 final either) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:34:33] :( [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:34:55] There have been some commits to the knetworkmanager-0.7 work branch before Christmas, but nothing since. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:35:33] As for the Solid NM support in KDE 4.0, that's reported not to be working with any NM version, and there have been no efforts that I know of to get it to even compile with 0.7. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:35:34] hopefully, knetworkmanager will show signs of life again. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:36:08] if it's not working, then at least we're not missing out on anything great then. :) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:37:03] we should also get this fixed before alpha release: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=426115 [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:37:06] Bug 426115: low, low, ---, Ngo Than, NEW , systemsettings isn't shown in menu [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:37:14] it's still present in 4.0.0 [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:37:45] svahl: i will take care of it [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:37:50] yeah, that one's wierd. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:37:51] Oh, and we should fix the menu entries which have only generic names: Dolphin root mode and KSysGuard. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:38:00] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:38:12] The KSysGuard entry is almost indistinguishable from the GNOME equivalent (which also has only a generic name, sigh...). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:38:43] I suppose if they're ShowOnlyIn=KDE, then it's not *so* bad, but still, genericname only is bad form. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:39:12] oh, before I forget, any volunteers to snag the patch from http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153193 (else, I'll do it). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:39:14] Bug 153193: medium, medium, ---, José Matos, CLOSED NEXTRELEASE, [orphaned package?] startup script [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:39:17] I think they aren't OnlyShowIn=KDE, at least the Dolphin root mode one (which only says "File manager - root mode") isn't. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:39:50] (ignore buggbot for this one, it's a KDE BZ entry, not a Fedora one) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:41:01] As I understand the discussion in that bug report, the patch makes the entire systray look ugly, not just GTK+ icons. :-( [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:42:27] we'll certainly find out the hard way. darn gtk2. Even aaron is getting testy/annoyed now (and he's usually very easy-going). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:43:00] and darn having to use nm-applet. If it wasn't that, I'd say don't bother. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:43:29] Does the current knetworkmanager-0.7 stuff in SVN still not build at all? [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:43:47] Because if it is partly working, it might be the time to put it into Rawhide... [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:43:53] Kevin_Kofler: Last I checked (admittedly a long time ago), it didn't. I'll give it another shot. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:44:24] of course, that brings the issue of nm-applet not cooperating. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:44:41] nm-applet, if installed, will *always* run, with no way to quit or disable it. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:44:43] afaik. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:44:55] The GTK+ vs. Plasma issue appears to me to be the classical case of "push the blame to the other project". :-( I think nobody is really understanding what's broken and there's no real idea what the real fix would look like. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:45:06] I haven't seen a proposed fix submitted to GTK+ in any case. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:45:27] Kevin_Kofler: oh, I'm certain Aaron understands precisely what's broken, and that's why he's so frustrated. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:45:53] Kevin_Kofler: oh, I get your point though. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:46:58] The GTK+ folks don't seem to have any idea how to fix the issue on their side in any case. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:47:15] wow, it's quick. kde-l10n was added for than [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:47:34] You'll probably have to wait a few minutes before you can actually import things though. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:47:37] Kevin_Kofler: it would take time/effort, which they seem not interested in investing, atm. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:47:45] pkgdb -> ACLs isn't synced instantly. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:48:28] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-08 -- Review of KDE parts in Desktop User Guide". [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:48:32] acls happen at :01 and :31 each hour. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:48:33] let's move on, running out of time. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:49:08] I was asked by fedora-docs folks to review http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide and offer any kde-related feedback/suggestions. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:49:10] Another problem is that the KDE code which made the systray look pretty and which was behind the GTK+ crash is a hack around an X11 issue though. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:49:31] So maybe X11 is what should really get fixed. It's a mess. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:49:33] Kevin_Kofler: right, that's gtk's position, that it is an X11 bug -> not their problem. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:51:05] About DesktopUserGuide, I'm afraid it's just not usable at all for KDE users. :-( As I said on #fedora-kde yesterday, there's so many sections specific to default apps which aren't the default on the KDE spin. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:51:54] don't tell us, tell the #fedora-docs folks that. :) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:53:25] well, let's open the floor to open discussion then in our last minutes... [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:53:25] sadly: there was no one that joined the sig after our last "request for help mail" because of documentation [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:53:34] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-08 -- Open Discussion". [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:54:02] svahl: oh man, you're right, I almost forgot about that. bummer, soooo, bummer. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:54:52] Sorry for being annoying, but my review requests have still not been looked at. :-( [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:54:53] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=427185 [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:54:54] Bug 427185: medium, medium, ---, Nobody's working on this, feel free to take it, NEW , Review Request: okteta - Binary editor [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:55:09] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=425872 [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:55:11] Bug 425872: medium, medium, ---, Nobody's working on this, feel free to take it, NEW , Review Request: kde4-decoration-native-quarticurve-kwin - Unofficial port of the Bluecurve KWin decoration to KDE 4 [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:55:14] svahl: what is wrong? Any ideas what we could do better? (actually, those for anyone). [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:55:16] I've tried to package kaudiocreator but having some problems atm (see kde-redhat-devel-list) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:55:53] Kevin_Kofler: sorry, between busy work, FUDCon prep, kde-4.0.0, -ENOTIME [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:56:26] I think they're both high-priority, okteta will be needed or we'll have no hexeditor once kdeutils 4.0.0 hits, quarticurve-kwin is needed so we can retire the now useless bluecurve-kwin-theme and have a working upgrade path. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:56:32] rdieter: not sure. The only thing we could do is ask for help or do things ourselfs (and we're all quite busy) [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:56:34] I'll try to spend thu (after I arrive) and Friday catching up on all that. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:57:02] svahl: For kaudiocreator: I think the kdemultimedia include dir should be /usr/include/kde4. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:57:16] svahl: problem being yeah, we've been asking for help, and not getting much. I guess just keep trying. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:57:23] But we probably should fix that in FindKdemultimedia.cmake, not hack around it on the command line. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:58:22] rdieter: I would suggest to send another mail after the alpha or before the beta. If we're having an official kde4 release then [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:58:58] Kevin_Kofler: that was my problem. kaudiocreator doesn't have such a file [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:59:11] nod, maybe we can use kde4 flashy-ness as a way to get more interest. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:59:14] There should be one in kdemultimedia-devel or in kdelibs. [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:59:27] and I wasn't sure whats the proper command for cmake is [Di Jan 8 2008] [17:59:54] * spot looks around [Di Jan 8 2008] [18:00:02] hmm... times up for today. lets' call it. [Di Jan 8 2008] [18:00:12] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-08 -- End". [Di Jan 8 2008] [18:00:15] thanks folks