[15:03] KDE SIG meeting start, who's around: than, svahl, Kevin_Kofler, dgilmore (+anyone else )? [15:04] rdieter: im only somewhat here [15:04] I'm here [15:04] I'm here. [15:04] * rdieter feels only somewhat here sometimes too. [15:05] kde sig has meetings here? [15:05] I pinged than in #kde-devel, hopefully he'll show. [15:05] XulChris: you betcha. [15:05] let's get started slowly, svahl, anything new, interesting to report on the livecd front? [15:06] I'm mostly done I think [15:06] I have to exclude some packages again (mostly koffice-extra-stuff). [15:06] you and jeremy sort out the xdg-user-dirs issue(s)? [15:07] it's in the compose now, so that's less of a concern [15:08] svahl: my livecd is still coming in at over 700 megs :( [15:08] newest anaconda included a skript to put liveinst.desktop on the livecd desktop directory. KDE is not creating this so the script is a file /home/fedora/desktop. And that's not so good. [15:08] jeremy, my smallest version was about 675 megs [15:09] can we call it a livedvd and not worry about cd sizes? [15:09] today's extras update pushed things quite a bit larger due to kerry creeping into the kde-desktop group. but I added some removals and got things closer... I've got another try going [15:09] XulChris_: it's definitely an option. for x86_64, we're going with that approach [15:09] arg, I wasn't aware that kde-desktop was going to be used for livecd (too), my bad. [15:09] kerry is into the kde-desktop group? oh [15:10] I recently added default items to comps-fe7. [15:10] ok, kerry is out then. [15:10] :) [15:10] I've taken over this package and was not planning to do so :) [15:11] my spinning of todays rawhide is still running [15:11] sorry for the bloat folks. [15:12] jeremy also has given me acces to the git-repository so that i can include the kickstart file for kde (its not working atm but thats another point) [15:12] rdieter: no worries, was easy enough once I figured out what was going on [15:12] oh. 679 megs. I should update my comps.xml more often [15:13] ok. what is the plan for a F7-Test3-KDE-LiveCD? it is possible to create an official one? [15:13] afk, a few minutes, phone call... [15:13] if I can get something fitting today or if we decide to punt and say you have to burn to a dvd for test3, then we can definitely do something official [15:14] no dvd. better exclude more packages like koffice-kpresenter or koffice-krita (should be 20-40 megs) [15:15] ok [15:16] * rdieter is back. [15:16] making more progress on kde*-extras splits should help some too. [15:17] rdieter, can you please mail me when it is done? [15:17] svahl: by "It" you mean what exactly? [15:17] the split, sry [15:17] "punt and say you have to burn to a dvd for test3" -> Or a CD-R90. Not a great idea for the final version, but if it's either an 800 MB image or nothing, I think it's better to have the 800 MB image. ;-) [15:18] svahl: eta: long time. ): [15:18] (for the test3) [15:18] Kevin_Kofler: with svahl's suggestions of packages to punt, I think I can get something whipped into working [15:18] sticking to a CD size is just going to get more and more difficult as time goes on [15:18] XulChris_: that's the tougher part [15:18] jeremy: thanks. [15:19] XulChris_: Well, the kde*-extras splits are going to get the size down. [15:19] maybe we can have two versions, one on CD with bare bones stuff, and one on DVD with the "works" [15:19] XulChris_: the problem is that space on mirrors, etc isn't free [15:19] jeremy: other candidates to omit include: kdeartwork-extras, apollon, gift-*, rss-glx-kde, beryl [15:19] rdieter, whil kdenetwork be splitted before f7? Asking because I included knetworkmanager and autostarted it. And there's also kwifimanager [15:20] But I can foresee chaos once we'll try to get KDE 4 into the mix post F7. Both KDE 4 and KDE 3 compat probably aren't going to fit on a CD. [15:20] svahl: ideally all the splits will get done in time for F7. *crosses fingers* [15:20] *will do so* [15:21] Kevin_Kofler: easy, no mixing-n-matching kde3/kde4 on the same spin/livecd. [15:21] maybe make a new kde4(only) livecd? [15:21] or we just go with dvd's by then. :) [15:21] That's probably best to discuss after F7 anyway. :-) [15:22] I've also created a first draft of a test plan: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD/Test3 [15:23] looks good, can't wait to try it out myself. [15:23] And I will also try to create a inofficial local version of the livecd (german) and host it on my own [15:24] jeremy, svahl: when/if you have any sneak-peak .iso's, let me know, so I can grab it. :) (and hopefully serve it out on a server around here) [15:24] svahl: I could give the german disk space on our servers too. [15:25] ok. thanks. [15:27] well, as I hinted last week, progress on the livecd is significant, and I think it makes sense for us to target that as our only/primary goal for F7. [15:28] make sense? am I crazy? [15:28] rdieter, wouldnt a kde spin be the first goal? [15:28] I think we should stick to the gnome one: Also 1 Livecd for Gnome, 1 Livecd for KDE (both also installable). And prime as the classic version. [15:29] or am I missing something [15:29] or does spin=livecd? [15:29] XulChris_: our initial plan was to start with making a (conventional) spin, and maybe do a livecd too... but... [15:30] livecd looks closer to reality, atm (and since it is installable too...) [15:30] XulChris_: The drawback of a LiveCD is that it can't be used to upgrade a previous version of Fedora. A non-live spin can sort-of be used for that, though it will only upgrade the packages on the spin and leave the others at the old versions. [15:30] does anybody know If there will be livecds for x86_64 and/or ppc? [15:30] So a post-install upgrade of the remaining stuff is then needed. [15:31] folks upgrading should be using the everything and/or prime spins anyway, imo. [15:31] In principle, any spin can be used to upgrade things, but you'll most likely end up with a non-working KDE until you do the post-release upgrade routine if you use a GNOME-based one. [15:31] svahl: we're doing a live image for x86_64. it's 800 megs (so not really cd sized) [15:32] Alternative methods to upgrade are yum/apt/smart, but if you do that with F7, you might end up with a non-working initrd (any progress on this problem?). [15:32] svahl: good question, I hadn't considered that (I naively assumed yes??) [15:32] * XulChris_ was kind of hoping to be able to upgrade via a KDE spin [15:32] there's no ppc livecd code yet (someone would have to do the bootloader stuff. and I don't know that there are enough ppc users to care :-) [15:32] ok. thanks. [15:32] jeremy: I assume x86_64 livecd isn't multilib (or is it?)? [15:33] it is [15:33] that's why it's 800 megs [15:33] wow, I thought multilib would make it even bigger. [15:33] I guess there aren't any -devel pkgs on livecd's... :) [15:33] right [15:34] Is there some way to exclude *.i?86 in the package list for the live CD to solve that size problem? [15:34] Kevin_Kofler: yes, but then you end up with an install that's not as functional. which sucks [15:36] from me some questions to plan the next two days: Should there be an own tracker bug for the kde cd? to whom will it be assigned then? [15:37] and can somebody write some little notes for the release notes? I can help with that (but my english is not the best for that) [15:37] tracker: +1, makes sense. [15:38] re: notes, I can help, but I'll need a livecd to test on which to base them on... [15:38] The docs team/project has some links for release notes... lemme see... [15:39] I can create an previous version and upload it somewhere so that you can look at it before thursday. [15:39] thanks. [15:40] I'll ask, but looks like we can/should stuff something under http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats [15:41] sounds like the right place to me [15:41] in particular, the KDE section on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Desktop is a wee bit sparse. [15:41] LOL, the understatement of the year... ;-) [15:42] jeremy, I assume that you or David will create the cds? When will be the last chance for changes? [15:42] * rdieter goes to pull a few items out of kde-desktop group in comps-fe7... [15:42] svahl: me, and the last chance is really really soon. mirrors are already starting to sync the bits and so I need to get the kde livecd up asap [15:44] ok. just want to know that. The only changes will be the excluding of some packages to fit the space. I think. (did you noticed my typo with kpresenter)? [15:44] [Notify] tibbs went offline (irc.freenode.org). [15:45] I need to run soon (daughter's birthday today), anything else to mention before closing meeting today? [15:45] svahl: I don't see kpresenter explicitly listed in the last thing you posted [15:46] Well, just FYI, there's updated KDE 3.80.3 packages with some bugfixes (Konqueror 4 and KControl 4 now start up without crashing, for example) in the kde-redhat unstable repo, thanks to rdieter for building my updated SRPMs so quickly. [15:46] thanks, forgot about that... :) [15:47] http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/livecd-fedora-kde.ks is what I'm trying to spin with right now [15:47] Is there any timeline for the Core/Extras merge? We're now at test3 and it's still not done. [15:47] jeremy: s|koffice-kresenter|koffice-kpresenter| [15:47] I've listed it as "koffice-kresenter" https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2007-March/msg00222.html [15:48] whoops! [15:48] * jeremy aborts and restarts with that change [15:48] Why are you adding koffice-krita in "additional KDE packages", then excluding it in the next section? [15:49] I think it's a quick-n-dirty omit to save space. [15:49] indeed [15:50] rdieter, when did you included the packages mentioned under "some changes that we don't want..." in @kde-desktop? Haven't noticed that :( [15:50] jeremy, rest looks good [15:50] a few days to a week ago. [15:50] ?? [15:50] oh. my fault. my comps.xml was a little bit old i think [15:51] svahl, jeremy: gpgme, pinentry-qt really should be on the livecd (if possible), the other omissions are ok. [15:51] imo. [15:51] k [15:52] ok, now I really need to run, thanks folks. Awesome stuff. Can't wait. [15:52] bye [15:52] * rdieter grabs irc log quick