[Di Okt 16 2007] [18:01:06] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - Init". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:01:19] kde sig meeting, let's get started, who's present today? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:01:29] Present. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:01:40] present [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:01:57] than? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:02:21] lungers also around. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:03:25] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-16 - Agenda". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:03:32] alright, let's get started. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:03:39] rdieter: i'm still busy with security issue, but i'm present [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:03:55] rdieter: we can start the meeting [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:04:04] Agenda items include: kde-3.5.8, web release notes, more kde-sig involvement, weekly reports to FWN. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:04:09] Anything else to add? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:04:30] +kde4 status. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:05:13] rdieter: how about kde-3.5.8 state now? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:05:26] that's agenda item 1. :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:05:39] ok, move on then... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:05:46] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-16 - KDE 3.5.8". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:05:50] kde-3.5.8 status [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:06:07] looks like most everything has at least an initial build done (finally). [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:06:20] than: did you queue a kde-i18n build? I saw the cvs update. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:06:51] looks like yes: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=21243 [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:06:53] good [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:07:31] I introduced some file list overlap, confusion by introducing -libs subpkgs to help out multilib-issues. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:07:38] rdieter: yes, it's still built [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:07:46] thanks to mscwendt for the report on that. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:08:03] kdegraphics is fixed, kdemm is more complex due to kdemm/kdemm-extras split [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:08:39] afaict, there's no actual problem/breakage here, just libs owned by multiple pkgs atm. will get on that directly after the meeting. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:09:06] any other comments on kde-3.5.8? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:09:41] just a question: kde 3.5.8 won't get into f8 at release time? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:09:49] It will. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:09:53] yes [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:09:53] It's being built for that. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:09:59] that's the plan, anyway. :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:09:59] Someone asked on the fedora-list if it will be pushed to FC6 too. Than? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:10:06] ok. then we should put that into the rel-notes [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:10:09] rdieter: which kde-3.5.8 packages are not built yet ? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:10:30] kdeaddons maybe, lemme check. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:10:39] nope done. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:10:48] Kevin_Kofler: i will build kde-3.5.8 for FC6 soon [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:11:02] I think it's all done [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:11:13] (I'll double-check after meeting) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:11:40] *would* have been done by Sat, if koji had been cooperative (and I had intelligently used chain-build) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:11:45] Kevin_Kofler: i guess 3.5.8 should be ready for FC6 update next week [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:11:57] than: thanks [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:11:58] And F7 too, I assume, right? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:12:04] :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:12:12] I can help F-7-wise. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:12:13] Kevin_Kofler: of course :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:13:27] anything else? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:13:50] how about kde4 status now? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:14:06] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-16 - KDE 4 status". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:14:08] good idea. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:14:09] I'm committing Soprano 1.95.0 to devel (F9 only) right now. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:14:33] I can get started on kdelibs4 once Soprano is in. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:14:34] we've branched F-8 for kde4-related stuff, btw. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:14:45] so devel=F-9 (for those following at home) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:15:09] I didn't want to risk breaking F-8 with a halfway-done upgrade, so better safe than sorry. :-) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:15:19] anyone know if there is a yum repo for gnome 2.20 or am i asking int the wrong place? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:15:22] so work on kde-3.94 (kde4beta3) will go into devel/ first. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:15:38] dstarh: 1. install F-8, 2. yes. :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:16:04] Hmmm, let's put %{_datadir}/dbus-1/interfaces/ on the agenda, davidz says it should be owned by something KDE 4. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:16:07] 1.sorry, should have stated f-7 and 2. sorry :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:16:11] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=334681 [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:16:45] If we put this in kde-filesystem, then soprano will have to require that. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:16:51] though I disagree, we can add it to kde-filesystem easy enough, [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:17:10] Or we could just have it owned by Soprano and rely on the fact that kdelibs4 requires that anyway. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:17:15] who owns /usr/share/dbus-1 ? dbus? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:17:24] yepp, I think so [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:17:45] Yes. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:17:47] yuck, then whoever owns interfaces will need Requires: dbus. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:17:57] I think davidz is dead wrong here. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:00] soprano requires qt4 which requires dbus. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:11] Then reopen the bug? :-) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:14] rdieter: i agree dbus should own this [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:42] is dbus-1/interfaces really kde-specific? (I don't know) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:46] davidz says this: [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:47] "This sounds like a KDE-ism; /usr/share/dbus-1/interfaces is, AFAIK, not [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:47] mentioned anywhere in any D-Bus specification or implementation notes. Also, I [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:47] recall discussion about this on the mailing list and that there was no [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:18:47] conclusion about it." [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:19:17] lots of kde pkgs put stuff in there. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:19:23] kde4 pkgs I mean [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:19:39] maybe kde-filesystem makes sense. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:19:51] rdieter: i didn't take a look at this, but it seems not a kde specific [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:20:09] davidz just added another comment: "(btw, I'm not saying this is not a useful feature but things like this needs to happen upstream)" [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:20:30] rdieter: Putting it in kde-filesystem means soprano will have to require kde-filesystem. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:20:47] I think it makes more sense to have soprano own it, and kdelibs4 depends on it anyway. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:21:04] But wait a minute. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:21:10] There's also non-KDE stuff using it. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:21:14] hmm... (quick-n-dirty) add to soprano then. that's the safest, simplest thing to do atm. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:21:21] At least empathy is using that directory IIRC. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:21:23] oops, doh. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:21:24] Let me check. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:21:54] No. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:22:04] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-16 - /usr/share/dbus-1/interfaces ownership". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:22:06] They use services, not interfaces. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:22:16] So interfaces is probably only used by KDE 4 stuff. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:22:44] * rdieter doesn't see any harm/reason why dbus couldn't own it still... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:23:02] ok, soprano ownership then? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:23:14] I'll do that for now. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:23:21] until a better solution comes along anyway [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:23:22] But I think we need to get that fixed in dbus really. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:24:17] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-16 - Web Release Notes (did we missed something important?)". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:24:35] Kevin_Kofler: yes, but if only kde4 stuff is using that directory, we should put it in soprano [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:25:05] afk 2 min... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:27:10] I 'spose kde-3.5.8 should be mentioned somewhere... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:27:20] KDE 3.5.8 should be mentioned in the web-release-notes (stupid that the freeze for the rel-notes just happened) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:27:23] anything else? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:27:39] Indeed, we need to s/3.5.7/3.5.8/ there. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:27:46] Is kdepim-enterprise mentioned yet? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:27:51] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Desktop [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:27:55] It should be mentioned next to the KDE version, I think. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:27:55] I've put the release notes flag to the knetworkmanager bug [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:28:12] I hope they put this in [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:29:37] so kde-3.5.8, kdepim-enterprise, knetworkmanager. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:29:41] anything else? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:30:36] alrighty, moving on then... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:30:48] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-16 - How to get more people involved in KDE-Sig?". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:31:07] svahl: Why don't you add a blurb yourself? The beats are open to anyone. :-) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:31:26] I'm adding KDE 3.5.8 and a sentence about kdepim-enterprise. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:31:43] Kevin_Kofler: will do it this evening [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:31:49] Kevin_Kofler: thanks (I should have waited on someone taking ownership of that task). [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:31:51] knetworkmanager really needs its own paragraph somewhere. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:32:51] the discussion last time stops what we do with the list of the "participants" (or in KDE interested people) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:33:18] I would suggest to add a second list for people that are willing to actively help in the development [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:33:54] so we could avoid the diplomatic problems (remeber the discussion last time) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:35:00] I had been assuming anyone adding their name as participants were already agreeing implicitly to actively helping in development.... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:35:16] but maybe my expectations don't match reality. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:35:33] If all the people on the list were doing actual development, we'd have much less work to do... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:36:31] so, I still don't see anything meaningful to gain by creating categories of participation. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:37:22] the current list of participants isn't all that meaningful either, honestly. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:37:43] like mentioned last time: maybe some interested person reading the actual list of more than 10 "developers" would think we are enough [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:38:00] OK, I forgot that, good point. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:38:37] how to classify someone as "developer" fairly? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:38:59] I also don't like seperating the list but that would maybe the only point were we can really say: We need more people [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:39:21] rdieter: That's exactly the problem: where do we draw the line? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:39:45] ok. "developer" isn't the right word. also helping with the wiki, the rel-notes and so on would be helpful [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:40:15] I want to avoid active/inactive but maybe that's the line [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:40:25] Or, hey, be honest, go in, cull the current list down to "known active contributors". Announce loudly what we're doing, ask for help. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:40:45] that could be also a solution [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:40:46] But everyone in the list technically did at least one wiki edit: adding themselves. ;-) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:41:20] maybe at one time they were participating a bit, or had good intentions. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:41:52] I'm ok with folks (re)adding themselves, and if we get a list of freeloaders again :), then revisit. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:42:15] any other proposals, ideas? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:43:04] or any rex's-idea-is-stoopid-vetos? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:43:43] so the conclusion is: adding a "known as contributors" list, leave the current list as-is and ask for help on fedora-devel-ml? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:44:24] close: cull current list down to "known contributors" was my proposal. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:45:13] ie, remove folks not active or particpating., and then all that other stuff... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:45:15] ok. but then we should ask for help and announce what we are doing _before_ we cull it down [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:45:16] I did the release note updates for KDE 3.5.8 and kdepim-enterprise: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Desktop [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:45:36] svahl: ok, order of operations doesn't matter to me. :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:45:47] I'd say go with svahl's plan. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:45:54] removing before announcing was the main problem in the last discussion ;) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:46:22] or at the same time, is ok with me. either way. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:47:01] ok, we have a plan, who wants the dirty job? :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:47:02] ok. I will add some more points to the wiki (i.e. bug hunters) and then write a mail to fedora-devel (today or tomorrow) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:47:28] svahl: awesome! thanks. then, how long to wait before we reduce the user list? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:47:52] mhh. maybe one or two weeks and wait for the response? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:48:14] ok, wait at least a week, we can talk about it at next week's meeting. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:48:15] and I will also try to write to all listed people directly [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:48:22] good idea. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:48:39] maybe get folks re-interested. :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:48:48] :-) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:48:52] :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:49:01] Speaking of kdepim-enterprise: Can we get that pushed to F7 stable updates now? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:49:12] Kevin_Kofler: ? Hmm, I thought it was. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:49:22] It's still in testing. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:49:38] I thought I requested the push recently, I'll go double-check after meeting. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:49:57] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-16 - Should we send weekly reports to fedora-devel-ml and/or Fedora Weekly News?". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:49:59] moving on. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:50:33] I think this would be an excellent idea, only someone needs to be the sucker... er, agree to do the job of summaries, sending to lists, etc... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:50:42] well, some SIGs do this. Should we also do it? a short status report maybe helpful for e.g. docs and rel-notes people [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:51:12] yes yes yes. (have I mentioned this would be great?) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:51:32] atm I'm normally writing the summaries. I could also sent it to the list [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:51:42] svalh: thanks, you're a saint. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:52:09] admittedly, I'm terrible at stuff like that (I'd rather be hacking or packaging something...) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:52:19] But there are no such reports from our comp^H^Hlleagues with the foot logo either. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:52:43] well. they have an own mailing list.... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:52:49] *g* [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:53:03] hey, they should do this too, imo. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:53:18] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-16 - open discussion". [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:53:30] anything else for today? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:53:37] short question: what are we actually doing with knetworkmanager on the DVD? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:53:40] Update from the dbus directory ownership saga: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=334681#c3 [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:54:04] (That's what I posted, see also davidz's reply below.) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:54:22] Basically he's saying KDE is evil for doing something upstream dbus doesn't like. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:54:38] sounds like he's right too. :( [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:55:35] svahl: no, knetworkmanager replaced with nm-applet [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:55:52] oh wait, not live image, DVD? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:55:56] * rdieter goes to check comps... [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:55:58] and nm-applet is also autostarted like Jeremy hacked it into the livecd? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:56:12] Do we have a knetworkmanager which at least builds now? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:56:23] no, nm-applet autostart hack is included only on kde live image. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:56:32] Or is it still completely broken? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:56:39] knetworkmanager is still busted, afaik. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:57:01] I think we need to retry with a newer snapshot from the work branch. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:57:04] maybe we should request it be removed from f-8 altogether until it builds/works again. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:57:29] dgilmore: ping, what's your take? [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:58:35] and just FYI: I've removed krusader from the livecd again to save space for the NetworkManager-stuff: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:59:06] svahl: ok, bummer. we lost all our free space, eh? :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:59:39] space today isn't helped by the fact that perl is depending on db4-devel. but spot is fixing that up :) [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:59:43] mostly. without krusader it is 696megs (and also kftpgrabber included by comps.xml). with krusader it ist ~708 [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:59:48] new perl is rebuilding now. sorry. [Di Okt 16 2007] [18:59:50] * spot ducks [Di Okt 16 2007] [19:00:07] ok, we can followup knetworkmanager in bz: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=298991 [Di Okt 16 2007] [19:00:20] oh. then I will re-check this [Di Okt 16 2007] [19:00:24] times up, meeting adjourned. thanks folks [Di Okt 16 2007] [19:00:36] NetworkManager-gnome is dragging in half of GNOME, sigh. :-( [Di Okt 16 2007] [19:01:10] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule".