[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:02:44] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-25 -- Init".
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:02:48] <rdieter>	kde sig meeting start
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:02:54] <rdieter>	who's present today?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:03:16] <rdieter>	than, ltinkl, svahl, Kevin_Kofler, foo*: ping
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:03:23] <than>	present
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:03:43] <svahl>	present
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:04:36] <rdieter>	gbcox: ping.  :)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:04:37] <gbcox>	Gerald Cox here
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:04:50] <gbcox>	first meeting, thx
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:05:05] <rdieter>	topic 1: Summary of problems in Fedora 9 Beta (Beta was slipped but maybe there are already existing someone)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:05:14] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-25 -- Summary of problems in Fedora 9 Beta (Beta was slipped but maybe there are already existing someone)".
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:05:29] <rdieter>	svahl?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:06:08] <Khaytsus>	rdieter: Is it inappropriate to ask who I have to blow to get KDE 3.5 *SOMEHOW* available in F9?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:06:19] <svahl>	no reports yet (I set this topic on the agenda last week, but the slip where a few days later)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:06:36] <rdieter>	Khaytsus: yes. :)  (recommendation: stick with F8)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:06:59] <rdieter>	svahl: ok, we can skip ahead then.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:07:00] <Khaytsus>	I know..   :/
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:07:16] <rdieter>	topic 2: Artwork: KDM Theme and KSplash
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:07:23] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-25 -- Artwork: KDM Theme and KSplash".
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:07:50] <rdieter>	so far, not much to show.  saw a post to fedora-artwork, someone started work on a ksplash theme.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:08:15] <Khaytsus>	rdieter: Is this a forum to discuss problems with KDE 4 in general or no?  Sorry, never listened in on this sort.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:08:17] <rdieter>	My assistant @ work said he'd try to find some time this week to start working on creating kdm themes.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:08:31] <svahl>	there were a discussion last week on fedora-art-list. It seems that there will be no gdm theme due to the new layout of gdm
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:08:34] <than>	IMO we should use kde default theme circles/kde4 as default
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:08:36] <rdieter>	Khaytsus: #fedora-kde or #fedora is better, this channel is for meetings.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:08:41] <Khaytsus>	kk
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:09:09] <svahl>	https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2008-March/msg00149.html
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:09:16] <svahl>	and https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-February/msg00042.html
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:09:28] <rdieter>	than: shrug, yeah, if we have no alternative, surely.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:10:25] <rdieter>	that pretty much sums it up, any other comments artwork-wise?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:11:10] <svahl>	proposal: ask for help on fedora-art-list (fedora-devel-list?). If nothing happens, use circles
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:11:52] <rdieter>	svahl: we've asked at least once (or twice?) already, but doing so again couldn't hurt.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:12:09] <rdieter>	svahl: are you volunteering to do the post? :)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:12:24] <svahl>	ok. I'll do that :)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:12:32] <rdieter>	cool
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:12:46] <rdieter>	topic 3: No administrator mode in systemsettings (KDE Bug #151669)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:12:54] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-25 -- No administrator mode in systemsettings (KDE Bug #151669)".
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:13:13] <rdieter>	see also: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=434824
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:13:16] <than>	it seems this isn't done in KDE-4.0.2
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:13:18] <bzbot>	Bug 434824: medium, medium, ---, Lukas Tinkl, ASSIGNED , KDE4 System Settings - No Method To Enter Administrative Mode
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:13:43] <svahl>	I've set this on the agenda because I've seen some posts on fedora-devel-list and/or/fedora-art-list about that. IMHO we should find a solution for this
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:13:56] <svahl>	(but I also don't know how)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:14:00] <rdieter>	I had responded to a post somewhere that this was going to get fixed, but I may have been wrong.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:14:37] <rdieter>	My (possibly senile) memory of this was that it was being worked on and addressed upstream soon, did I just dream that? :)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:14:48] <than>	i will take a look at svn trunk whether it's fixed in there
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:14:55] <rdieter>	ltinkl said he'd update us, but he's not here.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:15:05] <svahl>	AFAIK ltinkl said that he will be working on it. But I may be wrong here
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:15:21] <gbcox>	he posted several updates in the fedora bug
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:15:31] <rdieter>	than: thanks, post your findings to bug #434824
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:15:32] <bzbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=434824 medium, medium, ---, Lukas Tinkl, ASSIGNED , KDE4 System Settings - No Method To Enter Administrative Mode
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:16:03] <rdieter>	anything else to add here?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:16:44] <than>	what should we make default, kickoff or simple menu?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:17:08] <svahl>	IMHO kickoff
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:17:38] <rdieter>	excellent question, next topic:  kickoff vs simple menu?, steel cage deathmatch
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:17:49] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-25 -- kickoff vs simple menu?, steel cage deathmatch".
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:18:14] <svahl>	:)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:18:48] <than>	the big issue with kickoff is that if you use the low resolution
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:19:05] <than>	it's to large
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:19:15] <rdieter>	shrug, I'm still unconvinced a change from the default (kickoff) is warranted,
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:19:34] <svahl>	IMHO we should have good reasons to diverge from upstreams default here. 
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:20:10] <rdieter>	low-res folks are welcome to customize things to their liking, but I don't necessarily buy that as a good enough justification to change defaults.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:20:34] <gbcox>	that makes sense
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:20:39] <rdieter>	I'm assuming that low-res is very much a minority of users.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:21:18] <rdieter>	otoh, we could work to make it easier to switch the default here.  I could look into that.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:22:28] <rdieter>	than: what do you think?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:22:42] <than>	ok, it seems most peoples want kickoff, it's fine with me to keep it as default
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:23:09] <rdieter>	fwiw, Kevin (not here today) clearly doesn't like kickoff and is advocating the change.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:23:39] <than>	rdieter: i know, 2 of us don't really like it
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:24:04] <rdieter>	I think this warrants expanding the discussion to a wider audience, to fedora-desktop or fedora-devel list perhaps.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:25:08] <svahl>	+1
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:25:52] <than>	+1
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:25:54] <rdieter>	I'll take it to fedora-devel and try to pose the issue as unbiased as I can, to solicit some feedback.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:26:28] <rdieter>	ok, moving on... recent bugs.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:26:38] <rdieter>	topic: bug #438547: nas: pkg split
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:26:39] <bzbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=438547 low, low, ---, Frank Büttner, NEW , nas: pkg split
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:26:49] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-25 -- #438547: nas: pkg split".
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:27:57] <rdieter>	jeremy had suggested this awhile back (for f8) to omit nasd start from default install, and I agreed with the sentiments, but back then
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:28:35] <rdieter>	would hurt functionality.  but I think it's time to put nas to bed.  I'm not aware of a single app in fedora that uses it.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:29:18] <rdieter>	doing the pkg split as I suggested would drop nasd from the default install, but it would still be available to those who still/want need it.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:29:49] <rdieter>	I was certain if posed otherwise, Frank would definitely oppose the idea (and I wouldn't necessarily blame him).
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:30:11] <rdieter>	comments?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:30:17] <than>	rdieter: why shouldn't we disable nas support in qt?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:30:43] <than>	if there's no applications using it
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:30:50] <rdieter>	than: we could certainly, and I would advocate doing just that if nas isn't modified.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:31:07] <rdieter>	esp once qt-4.4 lands with phonon, nas support should be dropped then.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:31:58] <rdieter>	I think arts supports it too
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:32:19] 	 * than is checking arts...
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:35:06] <rdieter>	arg, my laptop froze plugging it power. ??
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:35:48] <rdieter>	well, let's move on, we can revisit this later if needed...
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:36:01] <rdieter>	topic: bug #436579: apidocs subpackage should be noarch
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:36:03] <bzbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436579 low, low, ---, Ngo Than, ASSIGNED , apidocs subpackage should be noarch
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:36:11] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-25 -- #436579: apidocs subpackage should be noarch".
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:36:38] <rdieter>	I've got most of the hooks to implement this in cvs.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:37:26] <than>	rdieter: you need 2 srpms right?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:37:27] <rdieter>	I think rel-eng and our mirrors would thank us to turn this on. :)  (for a 250MB per arch savings)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:38:05] <rdieter>	than: that's one way to do it, otherwise koji has hooks to implement from a single source too (like how kernel-doc gets built)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:38:58] <than>	i don't like the duplicates the SRPMs
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:39:00] <rdieter>	I'd like to first agree that it is a good idea, then secondly worry about how to make it happen.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:39:42] <rdieter>	than: I know it sucks, but dup'ing 250MB of content per arch is better?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:40:23] <rdieter>	than: ok, I take it that as long as the implementation doesn't involve separate srpms or branches, you'd be more welcome to the idea?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:41:46] <rdieter>	fwiw, I put similar hooks into kdeartwork, kdebase-runtime (for icons),
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:42:16] <rdieter>	icon themes range 25MB-40MB (or more)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:43:41] <than>	the correct fix should be done in rpm
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:44:01] <than>	that allows to make noarch subpackage
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:44:36] <rdieter>	nod, but that's nod even on the development radar
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:45:46] <rdieter>	I guess all I would propose at this point, is allow me to explore the implementation of building from a single source (like how kernel-doc), and then I'll report back what that entails.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:46:07] <than>	we have one rpm developer here, i will ask him whether it's doable
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:46:44] <rdieter>	sure, that's good too
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:47:23] <rdieter>	I think we're out of other topics, so anything else to discuss today?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:47:33] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-25 -- open discussion".
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:48:41] <svahl>	any news to the "gtk applets in systray" bug? I've tried out kubuntu with kde4 today and it seems at least one gtk icon is shown normal there
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:50:06] <rdieter>	some work 100% fine (NetworkManager-gnome does for me), others are flaky (sealert, packagekit)
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:51:00] <gbcox>	I updated 436242 last   week with some additional observational info
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:51:14] <gbcox>	was fine for awhile, then returned
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:51:16] <rdieter>	bug #436242
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:51:17] <bzbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436242 low, low, ---, Ngo Than, NEW , F9 KDE4 System Tray - Unidentified object
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:52:12] <rdieter>	there's an upstream bug for that too, but I don't have it handy.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:52:55] <rdieter>	at least I thought so, but my digging it turning up nothing.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:53:06] <rdieter>	gbcox: willing to report it to bugs.kde.org too?
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:53:42] <rdieter>	this may be relevant: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155381
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:53:43] <gbcox>	yes, will search and if not there will report
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:53:43] <bzbot>	Bug 155381: medium, medium, ---, Dave Jones, CLOSED RAWHIDE, drivers/block/cfq-iosched.c:1070: spin_is_locked on uninitialized spinlock d9d133b8.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:54:45] <rdieter>	I think that's the one, different symptoms of the same problem
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:55:05] <gbcox>	ok
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:57:16] <gbcox>	one more topic
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:57:34] <rdieter>	well only a couple minutes left, and fpc today has a *very* full agenda, so let's wrap things up.
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:57:37] <rdieter>	kde sig meeting end
[Di Mär 25 2008] [17:57:39] <rdieter>	thanks all.