Sep 09 18:02:57 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-09 -- Init
Sep 09 18:03:49 rdieter	KDE SIG Meeting start, who's present today?  ping: than, ltinkl, Kevin_Kofler
Sep 09 18:04:05 svahl	present
Sep 09 18:04:07 Kevin_Kofler	Present.
Sep 09 18:04:22 *	SMParrish here
Sep 09 18:07:10 rdieter	well, let's get started
Sep 09 18:07:23 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-09 -- FUDCon Brno report
Sep 09 18:07:33 rdieter	agenda item 1: FUDCon Brno report.
Sep 09 18:07:41 rdieter	I want details, juicy details.  Kevin_Kofler ? :)
Sep 09 18:08:04 rdieter	I want blogs too, but that can wait.
Sep 09 18:08:19 Kevin_Kofler	So jreznik, ltinkl and I held a session about KDE 4.
Sep 09 18:08:23 Kevin_Kofler	It was well-attended.
Sep 09 18:09:26 Kevin_Kofler	ltinkl presented the "pillars of KDE 4", jreznik showed for each of them small examples of how you'd use them as a developer, and at the end I talked a bit about where we're going with KDE 4 in Fedora.
Sep 09 18:10:50 than_home	present
Sep 09 18:12:59 Kevin_Kofler	The whole FUDCon was a success, well-organized, well-frequented.
Sep 09 18:13:51 rdieter	Kevin_Kofler: do you hear/see any other good talks/presentations, any other highlights?
Sep 09 18:14:04 rdieter	s/do/did/
Sep 09 18:16:14 Kevin_Kofler	Yes. I was at custom spins, OLPC, KDE 4 (talking), better webcam support, status of RPM.
Sep 09 18:16:46 rdieter	anybody kde-related go to the policykit talk?
Sep 09 18:17:27 Kevin_Kofler	And I'll be looking into patching xine-lib's v4l support to use libv4l.
Sep 09 18:17:40 rdieter	cool
Sep 09 18:18:13 Kevin_Kofler	The PolicyKit "talk" was somewhere in the afternoon of the Friday hackfest.
Sep 09 18:18:20 than_home	Kevin_Kofler, were there any good suggestion what we should improve KDE in fedora?
Sep 09 18:18:21 Kevin_Kofler	So I missed that one.
Sep 09 18:20:39 Kevin_Kofler	than_home: No (unless they only talked to ltinkl and/or jreznik and not me).
Sep 09 18:21:25 rdieter	alrighty, thanks, let's move on, next topic: KDE-4.1.1 status ,   than?
Sep 09 18:21:31 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-09 -- KDE-4.1.1 status
Sep 09 18:21:56 than_home	it's already built for F9
Sep 09 18:22:13 Kevin_Kofler	4.1.1 is queued for testing already. than submitted the F9 update, I edited it to roll in rdieter's latest kdepimlibs build.
Sep 09 18:22:30 than_home	Kevin_Kofler, thanks
Sep 09 18:22:31 Kevin_Kofler	I also submitted the F8 stuff (kdelibs4, kdepimlibs, kdebase-runtime, kdebase4) for testing.
Sep 09 18:22:55 Kevin_Kofler	ltinkl has committed some kdelibs fixes, but those aren't built or in the update yet.
Sep 09 18:23:08 rdieter	ok, I see it in bodhi now, thx
Sep 09 18:23:56 than_home	we will leave 4.1.1 in testing for 1 week
Sep 09 18:24:08 rdieter	I guess I kind-of expected bodhi to email me that pkgs that I maintain had updates submitted, but I guess not.
Sep 09 18:24:10 Kevin_Kofler	I also have to check what's up with the upstream VFAT charset patch, there was at least a typo, that's fixed, but I'm not sure there's not other stuff which needs fixing.
Sep 09 18:24:32 Kevin_Kofler	I had removed it from ltinkl's commit (before the typo got fixed).
Sep 09 18:24:40 Kevin_Kofler	I could readd it now.
Sep 09 18:24:40 than_home	afterthat it will moved to updates if there's no critical bugs found
Sep 09 18:24:55 rdieter	+1 to all that, anything else 4.1.1-related to report?  move on?
Sep 09 18:25:13 than_home	move on
Sep 09 18:25:14 Kevin_Kofler	See http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161673 for the VFAT charset stuff.
Sep 09 18:25:16 buggbot	Bug 161673: medium, medium, ---, ivazqueznet@gmail.com, CLOSED NEXTRELEASE, gpredict incorrect url
Sep 09 18:25:27 Kevin_Kofler	(stupid buggbot)
Sep 09 18:25:42 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-09 -- Fedora 10 Beta,  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Schedule
Sep 09 18:25:52 rdieter	next topic: Fedora 10 Beta,  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Schedule
Sep 09 18:26:02 than_home	Kevin is reviewing  lancelot
Sep 09 18:26:37 than_home	the reviewing will be finished today
Sep 09 18:26:49 than_home	i'm still working on this
Sep 09 18:27:52 rdieter	anything else beta-related?  are we going to punt on trying to get a kde4-based networkmanger applet/controller in F-10?
Sep 09 18:30:18 Kevin_Kofler	I'm looking at the NM plasmoid, it looks like it got almost no development lately. :-/
Sep 09 18:30:31 Kevin_Kofler	They claimed it was going to be ready in August, they lied.
Sep 09 18:30:41 rdieter	so much for it getting done ~/kde-4.1.0 timeframe, nod
Sep 09 18:31:46 rdieter	I'll review comps wrt beta, otherwise, let's move on.
Sep 09 18:32:01 svahl	For the live images I think I'll gonna go with this kickstart: http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/kickstarts/f10/F10-KDE4-040.ks
Sep 09 18:32:13 svahl	and this package list: http://www.deadbabylon.de/fedora/livecd/packagelists/f10/long-F10-KDE4-040-i686.txt
Sep 09 18:32:39 rdieter	svahl: thx, I'll look that over too (and invite others to do the same, more eyes, the better)
Sep 09 18:32:47 Kevin_Kofler	There's still the KDE-3-based http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/knetworkmanager/knetworkmanager-0.7/ of course.
Sep 09 18:32:50 svahl	Main changes to alpha are: only @fonts (and no additional ones), no amarok2 (size)
Sep 09 18:32:58 Kevin_Kofler	I have no idea if that's any more usable than it used to be though.
Sep 09 18:33:32 Kevin_Kofler	And then there's http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/utils/knetworkmanager4/
Sep 09 18:33:37 Kevin_Kofler	No idea what the status there is.
Sep 09 18:33:44 rdieter	svahl: are we still pulling in the kde3 runtime for the live image?  if so, do you recall for what?
Sep 09 18:33:52 Kevin_Kofler	But it doesn't look promising either by the low commit rate.
Sep 09 18:34:51 rdieter	or is getting rid of that not practical?
Sep 09 18:35:21 svahl	rdieter, do you mean kdelibs3 or kdebase3?
Sep 09 18:35:28 rdieter	svahl: either
Sep 09 18:36:13 svahl	kdebase3 isn't present on the images, kdelibs3 is required by k3b, konversation, kftpgrabber and filelight
Sep 09 18:36:29 svahl	and ksshaskpass
Sep 09 18:36:41 rdieter	thx
Sep 09 18:37:29 svahl	Sonar_Gal, unless there will be a kde4 port of k3b and konversation soon, I think we'll have to live with that for f10
Sep 09 18:37:50 svahl	oh, I only meant "So, ..."
Sep 09 18:38:25 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-09 -- Echo Icon Theme will be default in F10, what will we use in KDE?
Sep 09 18:38:27 Kevin_Kofler	I think so too. Unless you want to replace them with GTK+ apps. ;-)
Sep 09 18:38:54 rdieter	ok, next topic: Echo Icon theme f10 defaulit,  what will we use in KDE?
Sep 09 18:39:20 Kevin_Kofler	Well, does Echo work in KDE 4? KDE 3 apps?
Sep 09 18:39:33 Kevin_Kofler	If the answer is "no", then we need to fix it before even considering it.
Sep 09 18:39:41 rdieter	I've been testing it out this morning (inserting Echo as the first fallback into Fedora-KDE in front of oxygen), and it seems to work well, look nice.
Sep 09 18:39:58 svahl	Kevin_Kofler, for KDE4: not really. Many icons are wrong and we have a pacman icon for the fedora logo in kickoff :)
Sep 09 18:39:59 rdieter	for kde3 apps, we'll need to continue to rely on crystalsvg
Sep 09 18:40:30 rdieter	svahl: pacman problem goes away if we use Fedora-KDE theme (like what I'm testing)
Sep 09 18:40:38 svahl	ah, ok
Sep 09 18:40:50 Kevin_Kofler	Well, if so, then let's set up Fedora-KDE that way.
Sep 09 18:41:13 rdieter	so, I'd propose we tweak kde-settings, and at least test it out awhile, and see how it goes.  we can always revert if things don't work out.
Sep 09 18:41:20 Kevin_Kofler	Maybe we could even get some symlinks added for KDE 3 apps, but it might not be worth it anymore at this point.
Sep 09 18:41:59 rdieter	symlinks would be painful, but if dropping crystalsvg from the live image is a possibility, may be worth it
Sep 09 18:42:26 rdieter	may be more time/work than we have before f10 tho
Sep 09 18:42:38 Kevin_Kofler	I don't think dropping crystalsvg would be possible.
Sep 09 18:42:48 rdieter	then I don't think it's worth trying, imo
Sep 09 18:42:49 Kevin_Kofler	There are so many icons in it, I don't think Echo has a replacement for all of them.
Sep 09 18:43:08 rdieter	we've got pleny else to worry about and work on
Sep 09 18:43:41 rdieter	wanna vote?  or anyone want to voice an objection to trying out echo?
Sep 09 18:44:10 Kevin_Kofler	No objection here.
Sep 09 18:44:21 svahl	none here, too
Sep 09 18:44:26 rdieter	+1 here, drawback is that it will likely add ~5mb space footprint (echo + possibly gnome-themes if that's not already pulled into live image)
Sep 09 18:44:59 svahl	rdieter, gnome-themes is already on the live images
Sep 09 18:45:12 rdieter	echo itself seems to be only ~1.6mb then, so shouldn't be too bad
Sep 09 18:45:22 Kevin_Kofler	And Echo should be on it anyway if it's going to be the default for GTK+ apps.
Sep 09 18:45:32 rdieter	oh, duh
Sep 09 18:45:52 rdieter	alright, moving on, next topic: Fedora User Guide for F10
Sep 09 18:46:03 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-09 -- Fedora User Guide for F10
Sep 09 18:46:07 rdieter	Kevin_Kofler: ?
Sep 09 18:46:50 Kevin_Kofler	Actually, we already have fedora-icon-theme on the live image, so that's going to drag in echo-icon-theme anyway.
Sep 09 18:47:06 Kevin_Kofler	rdieter: Why are you asking me about the user guide?
Sep 09 18:47:15 rdieter	ouch, I recall that *someone* (I forget) was working on updating all that for F-9/KDE4, but much of that still seems to reference kde3, ugh.
Sep 09 18:47:28 rdieter	Kevin_Kofler: I had assumed you had added it to the agenda. :)  who then?
Sep 09 18:47:50 svahl	I added it because I've read the mail from KarstenWade right before the meeting: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-September/msg00019.html
Sep 09 18:48:33 rdieter	ok, we have a definite, large need for some help there, anyone present have time/gumption to help work on it?  and/or try to solicit help from elsewhere?
Sep 09 18:48:56 Kevin_Kofler	The story for F9 was that I offered helping mstahnke with getting it updated, he said he was trying to take care of it himself and would be asking me for help if needed, and I didn't hear from him again since.
Sep 09 18:49:37 rdieter	Kevin_Kofler: ah, mstahnke, mind (kindly) pinging him to see if he has anything done yet?
Sep 09 18:49:46 rdieter	:)
Sep 09 18:50:13 Kevin_Kofler	Oh, actually I think it was mwiriadi.
Sep 09 18:50:17 Kevin_Kofler	I'm mixing folks up. :-(
Sep 09 18:52:14 rdieter	I just remember the starting, 'm'. :)
Sep 09 18:53:10 rdieter	Kevin_Kofler: when/if you hear anything, well, even if you don't, sounds like we'll need to solicit/beg for some help here from elsewhere.  I can try to do that soonish.
Sep 09 18:53:48 rdieter	Kevin_Kofler: unless you have copious amounts of free time? :)
Sep 09 18:54:15 Kevin_Kofler	It was mwiriadi (Marc Wiriadisastra), I'm fairly sure.
Sep 09 18:54:32 Kevin_Kofler	For starters he's one of the listed authors of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide :-)
Sep 09 18:54:44 rdieter	that's him, I'm fairly certain
Sep 09 18:55:39 rdieter	well, we're almost out of time, anything else, before we quit for today? topic:  open discussion.
Sep 09 18:55:46 *	rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-09-09 -- Open discussion
Sep 09 18:55:51 *	quaid hears his name
Sep 09 18:56:08 Kevin_Kofler	All the 3.5.10 stuff is queued for updates-testing now.
Sep 09 18:56:17 Kevin_Kofler	F8 update, and update of the KDE 3 stuff in F9.
Sep 09 18:56:31 rdieter	ah, almost forgot about kindly old F-8 and KDE3. :)
Sep 09 18:56:45 quaid	oh, so is all the F9 content currently in Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide *not* KDE 4?
Sep 09 18:56:54 rdieter	quaid: no.
Sep 09 18:56:56 quaid	new work has begun for the F10 guide at User_Guide
Sep 09 18:57:10 *	rdieter goes to double-check
Sep 09 18:57:14 Kevin_Kofler	The content in what's supposed to be the F9 guide talks about Kicker etc.
Sep 09 18:57:29 Kevin_Kofler	All KDE 3 stuff.
Sep 09 18:57:36 Kevin_Kofler	It's the F8 content essentially unchanged. :-(
Sep 09 18:57:57 rdieter	confirmed, bummer.
Sep 09 18:58:28 quaid	well there ya go!
Sep 09 18:58:33 Kevin_Kofler	It even says: "This chapter introduces the KDE desktop in Fedora 8."
Sep 09 18:58:41 Kevin_Kofler	So I think we can even safely s/essentially//. ;-)
Sep 09 18:58:44 quaid	Kevin_Kofler: fwiw, that content was never released for F9
Sep 09 18:58:52 quaid	Kevin_Kofler: we dropped the ball on completing it
Sep 09 18:58:58 quaid	well,sort of
Sep 09 18:59:06 quaid	anyway, there is time to get it updated if someone wants to
Sep 09 18:59:18 quaid	another option is to excise KDE content from the F9 version.
Sep 09 18:59:33 quaid	I'll put out a shout on f-docs-l to see if anyone wants to cover KDE for F9 version
Sep 09 18:59:42 quaid	good news is, it should make the F10 version easier to do, right?
Sep 09 18:59:50 rdieter	quaid: fair nuf, we'll give it a shot (to update that is), otherwise any help is definitely welcome.
Sep 09 19:01:19 quaid	word
Sep 09 19:01:36 rdieter	alrighty, time's up for today, thanks all
Sep 09 19:01:42 rdieter	KDE SIG meeting end
Sep 09 19:01:57 rdieter	logs anyone?
Sep 09 19:02:36 rdieter	we really need the irc meeting auto-log bot discussed yesterday on #fedora-devel. :)
Sep 09 19:02:53 svahl	rdieter, I'll do it
Sep 09 19:03:03 rdieter	rock
Sep 09 19:04:12 svahl	I really hope to find some more time to reanimate the summary mails again. Hopefully from today/tomorrow. :)