Okt 07 18:01:15 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - Init Okt 07 18:01:35 So, it's the time for the KDE SIG meeting again. Okt 07 18:01:38 Who's present? Okt 07 18:02:20 present Okt 07 18:02:28 here (but I'm too tired...) Okt 07 18:02:36 here Okt 07 18:02:52 1/2 here (work distracted a bit) Okt 07 18:03:35 --> ltinkl (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:04:47 Hmmm, I guess that's most of us. Unfortunately, svahl isn't present. Okt 07 18:05:02 * ltinkl is here too Okt 07 18:05:19 Should we discuss "Replacing gnome-packagekit with kpackagekit on KDE live images?" even without svahl present? Okt 07 18:05:42 <-- kital hat sich getrennt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Okt 07 18:05:55 <-- wwoods hat sich getrennt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Okt 07 18:06:05 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - Replacing gnome-packagekit with kpackagekit on KDE live images? Okt 07 18:06:07 don't think so Okt 07 18:06:08 how stable is kpackagekit? Okt 07 18:06:23 http://polishlinux.org/kde/kpackagekit-interview/ Okt 07 18:06:35 they posted a pretty nice overview of the current state Okt 07 18:07:00 I think for rawhide we should enable, at least to get some feedback Okt 07 18:07:02 rdieter planned to try it out, not sure if he had the time already. Okt 07 18:07:53 just got f-10/rawhide installed/working on my machine at home yesterday (plymouth/modesetting got in the way), so I can try it out. Okt 07 18:08:31 So what do we do? Defer until next week when you had a chance to try it out and hoping svahl is present? Okt 07 18:08:36 But we don't have much time. Okt 07 18:08:51 Kevin_Kofler: +1 Okt 07 18:08:54 The longer we wait, the less we'll be liked for doing such a change. Okt 07 18:09:10 But without testing and without the live CD maintainer present, it's kinda hard to make a decision. Okt 07 18:09:13 --> jmbuser (n=jmbuser@77.30.5.192) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:09:34 +1 will give me another week to test it as well Okt 07 18:09:46 OK, deferring until next week. Okt 07 18:09:50 Next topic. :-) Okt 07 18:09:57 i'd like to test it too Okt 07 18:10:14 --> petreu (n=peter@fedora/petreu) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:10:18 If you want to test it on F9, you'll also have to rebuild PackageKit from Rawhide. Okt 07 18:10:28 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00366.html - Mysterious cmake failure on ppc64 Okt 07 18:10:36 Next topic: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00366.html - Mysterious cmake failure on ppc64 Okt 07 18:10:43 --> kital (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:10:59 This one is really "fun", it breaks the kdepim build in dist-f10 and prevents me from fixing the broken libgnokii.so.3 dependency. Okt 07 18:11:01 <-- jyulliano hat sich getrennt ("Saindo") Okt 07 18:12:07 does it only break on ppc64? Okt 07 18:12:25 Always happens on ppc64, not always at the same place in cmake apparently, but always somewhere in there, and on 3 different ppc64 hosts (4 build attempts, all failed on ppc64). Okt 07 18:13:28 does the problem show up in other archs? Okt 07 18:13:59 In the latest attempt, it failed after the check for HAVE_SYS_CDEFS_H, in the one I complained about on the mailing list, it was after the check for SYS_INOTIFY_H_FOUND. Okt 07 18:14:01 curious: are the failures *only* on xen hosts? (I recall seeing an issue related to that awhile, back, but thought it had since been fixed). Okt 07 18:14:12 Maybe with enough resubmits, I could cheat it through. Okt 07 18:14:24 The ppc64 hosts aren't Xen, are they? Okt 07 18:14:44 than: It always shows up on ppc64. Okt 07 18:14:47 maybe not, I was just wondering. Okt 07 18:14:53 --> svahl (n=deadbaby@p54834626.dip.t-dialin.net) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:15:33 <-- kital hat sich getrennt (Remote closed the connection) Okt 07 18:15:36 * svahl is sorry for being late, my ISP is trying to kill me Okt 07 18:16:45 svahl: We've talked a bit about kpackagekit - rdieter hasn't had the time to do any testing yet, he just got F10 running after fighting with Plymouth and modesetting. Okt 07 18:17:00 SMParrish and jreznik also want to do some testing. Okt 07 18:17:18 * lvillani has f10 with kpackagekit on both workstation and laptop, now Okt 07 18:17:20 So we thought maybe it's best to decide this next week, what do you think? Okt 07 18:17:30 I've done some quick tests with it. Basic functions seems to work and it fit's nicely into systemsettings. Okt 07 18:17:37 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00366.html - kpackagekit Okt 07 18:17:41 ok Okt 07 18:17:47 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - kpackagekit Okt 07 18:18:16 Well, if lvillani and you say it's great, maybe we should switch now? Okt 07 18:18:41 --> ezq (n=ezq@host195.190-226-195.telecom.net.ar) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:18:54 I've only done quick tests and some live spins. Additional testers won't hurt Okt 07 18:19:07 it seems to work here, however there are some glitches when running an update Okt 07 18:19:25 Kevin_Kofler: F10 is not working for me in VirtualBox (kernel bug) but I still have rawhide box with older kernel so I can test it... I'm looking forward for kpackagekit Okt 07 18:19:34 ie: the package list is empty (only the checkboxes are shown) Okt 07 18:19:49 lvillani: Please file bugs for all the oddities you encounter. Okt 07 18:19:52 --> KageSenshi (n=kagesens@fedora/KageSenshi) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:20:04 Let's give it that one more week, maybe things like this can be fixed in that week, too. Okt 07 18:20:07 i'll do that as soon as I can reproduce it again Okt 07 18:20:35 the rest seems to work nicely Okt 07 18:20:56 <-- giallu hat sich getrennt (Remote closed the connection) Okt 07 18:21:01 <-- che hat sich getrennt (Remote closed the connection) Okt 07 18:21:20 OK, thanks for the testing. More on that next week. :-) Okt 07 18:21:29 We have more stuff to discuss. Okt 07 18:21:48 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - Plasma backports? (see also plasma-4.1-openSUSE) Okt 07 18:22:03 Next topic: Plasma backports? (see also plasma-4.1-openSUSE) Okt 07 18:22:13 <-- petreu hat sich getrennt ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )") Okt 07 18:22:13 See http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/plasma-4.1-openSUSE/?view=log for their revision log. Okt 07 18:22:19 They backported a lot of stuff. Okt 07 18:22:50 Some interesting for us, some not so much (like stuff which breaks binary compatibility in libplasma without a soname change, sounds like a recipe for chaos). Okt 07 18:23:41 I think we want at least panel autohide, it's a very frequently requested change and the backport is not too invasive: Okt 07 18:23:50 http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=864493 Okt 07 18:23:58 Yes, they are backporting a lot of stuff Okt 07 18:24:01 Autohide +1 Okt 07 18:24:12 +1 too Okt 07 18:24:17 +1 Okt 07 18:24:29 The monitor.svg and scrollbar.svg theme additions seem unrelated, the containment-controls.svg change appears to be related though. Okt 07 18:24:46 Is binary compatibility in plasma/plasma (as opposed to libs/plasma) an issue? Okt 07 18:24:55 Because that one gets broken by those changes. Okt 07 18:25:06 But it's not in the lib. Okt 07 18:25:16 I don't think stuff actually links to plasma/plasma, does it? Okt 07 18:25:27 nope Okt 07 18:25:33 I don't think too Okt 07 18:25:40 So that should be safe. Okt 07 18:25:42 unless it's a lib, it's fine to break it imo Okt 07 18:26:03 There's also this small followup: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=865014 Okt 07 18:26:06 --> Zool^Wrk (n=kaland@84.234.242.190) hat #Fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:26:10 we can try it at least, if it breaks something, we can go back... Okt 07 18:26:46 interesting patch Okt 07 18:26:53 I'm unsure about that one: advantage: nice to have, it sucks not to see what size we're actually getting as in current 4.1, drawback: adds strings which won't get translated before 4.2. Okt 07 18:27:37 <-- Zool^ hat sich getrennt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Okt 07 18:27:40 Or are those strings already somewhere? Okt 07 18:27:59 if they are somewhere in kdelibs, it will show translated Okt 07 18:28:05 which is quite likely Okt 07 18:28:06 If not, maybe we should hack it so it shows just the number without the English label? ;-) Okt 07 18:28:26 or replace it with [W] x [H] Okt 07 18:28:29 yup, sth like "%1 x %2" Okt 07 18:28:46 it's good idea :) Okt 07 18:28:47 --- wwoods_ ist jetzt bekannt als wwoods Okt 07 18:28:50 The problem is that the second dimension isn't really meaningful for a panel. Okt 07 18:29:06 it is eventho it stays constant :p Okt 07 18:29:14 --> Matias_arg (n=root@host133.190-136-213.telecom.net.ar) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 18:29:33 OK, I'll see what I can do about those labels. Okt 07 18:29:48 <-- Matias_arg (n=root@host133.190-136-213.telecom.net.ar) hat #fedora-meeting verlassen Okt 07 18:30:58 The panel autohide patch also comes with some string changes though, not all absolutely necessary (because it's a backport of more than just autohide). Okt 07 18:31:31 For example, instead of i18n("Align panel to left"), we have i18n("Panel Alignment") and i18n("Left"). Okt 07 18:32:46 So only backport autohide but still (maybe) there is autohide word... Okt 07 18:32:50 I'll see if I can somehow minimize the string changes and reuse as many existing strings as possible in the dialog. Okt 07 18:33:10 I think "Auto Hide" will just stay untranslated. Okt 07 18:33:23 There's only so much magic we can do. Okt 07 18:34:02 I mean, there's probably "Automatically" and "Hide" somewhere in the message catalog for kdelibs, but if I just concatenate this, it will "ungrammatically sound" in many languages. ;-) Okt 07 18:34:13 ;-) Okt 07 18:34:20 don't do that :) Okt 07 18:35:28 The new config stuff will be untranslated, I'll try to avoid the unnecessary string changes in the existing config stuff. Okt 07 18:36:50 I think I know why they changed it though: so it's consistently in vboxes along with the autohide etc. options. Okt 07 18:37:22 The old style had unlabeled icons in a vbox or hbox depending on the panel orientation. Okt 07 18:38:00 I guess we'll have to live with the untranslated "Panel alignment" string (I'm sure "Left", "Center" and "Right" are translated. ;-) ). Okt 07 18:38:36 you already mentioned i18n("Panel Alignment") above Okt 07 18:38:57 Yes, and now I explained why they added that string. Okt 07 18:39:00 as long as it comes from the same (or "parent") catalog, it's ok Okt 07 18:39:40 I think it comes from nowhere, along with some of the other strings added. :-( http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/plasma-4.1-openSUSE/plasma/plasma/panelcontroller.cpp?r1=864493&r2=864492&pathrev=864493 Okt 07 18:39:44 ltinkl: but it is old one tool tip message... Okt 07 18:39:45 Search for i18n. Okt 07 18:41:06 i see Okt 07 18:44:03 Another interesting patch in plasma-4.1-openSUSE is the folderview backport: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=863348 Okt 07 18:44:18 It requires at least Plasma::ScrollBar to be added to the lib though. Okt 07 18:44:38 The really interesting part in it is support for saving icon positions across sessions. Okt 07 18:44:48 But it isn't properly isolated there. Okt 07 18:44:49 I'm not sure about lib changes... Crashing plasma is big deal Okt 07 18:45:39 Should I try extracting and truly backporting (not applying huge diffs wholesale) the change which adds support for icon positions? Okt 07 18:45:46 Or is it not worth the trouble? Okt 07 18:46:55 your decision :) Okt 07 18:47:21 I'll say it's not worth the trouble if we don't get at least a bug filed or something about it. Okt 07 18:47:24 :-) Okt 07 18:47:56 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - KMix multimedia key support (Kubuntu patch) Okt 07 18:48:16 Next topic: KMix multimedia key support (Kubuntu patch) Okt 07 18:48:24 I've discussed that one on #fedora-kde a bit already. Okt 07 18:48:43 <-- fbijlsma hat sich getrennt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Okt 07 18:48:46 Do you have link for this patch? Okt 07 18:48:47 <-- DemonJester hat sich getrennt ("leaving") Okt 07 18:48:55 Basically, Kubuntu touts this as a new great feature in Intrepid, I figured out how they do it: http://repo.calcforge.org/f10/kubuntu_02_kmix_keyboard_shortcuts.diff Okt 07 18:49:08 The problem there is that it's not upstream, not even in 4.2. :-( Okt 07 18:49:49 It also adds some strings, but those are normally not shown except in "Configure Shortcuts", so I don't think that will be a big problem. Okt 07 18:50:04 What's more worrying is this: mixer->setMute("Master:0", false); //FIXME, don't hardcode deviceids Okt 07 18:50:25 The volume slider acted on by the MM keys is hardcoded to "Master:0" everywhere. Okt 07 18:50:41 And of course the fact that it's not upstream as patches should be. Okt 07 18:50:48 not good, the string change is ok, that one comes from kdelibs Okt 07 18:51:10 "Increase Volume", "Decrease Volume" and "Mute" are in kdelibs already? Okt 07 18:51:50 Mute should be there (KMix right click) Okt 07 18:52:35 by "not good" I meant the master device hardcoding Okt 07 18:53:06 Yes, I don't like that either. Okt 07 18:53:25 On the other hand, what should MM keys be controlling? Okt 07 18:53:44 <-- herson hat sich getrennt ("Leaving") Okt 07 18:53:51 it's more hack than patch Okt 07 18:54:03 for MM keys is better use tools for them Okt 07 18:54:44 Doesn't GNOME do it in their mixer-like tool though? Okt 07 18:55:03 ye master device but I think it might be called differently for other soundcards, there's the hack Okt 07 18:55:35 So let's not merge that patch as is? Okt 07 18:56:00 maybe ask jriddel first Okt 07 18:56:02 rdieter, what do you think? You seemed very enthousiastic about MM keys working, though not about the "Master:0" hack. Okt 07 18:56:50 or add configuration dialog Okt 07 18:56:51 ltinkl: good idea, I'll ask him. Okt 07 18:57:14 OK. Next topic... Okt 07 18:57:23 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - find-lang-like macro for KDE documentation Okt 07 18:57:25 jreznik, rdieter: kmix already has a "select master channel" dialog Okt 07 18:57:38 This is a wishlist type item: find-lang-like macro for KDE documentation Okt 07 18:57:48 so the keys should just use that Okt 07 18:57:59 ltinkl: so no hardcoded values and use that defaults Okt 07 18:58:15 After seeing hacks like this: Okt 07 18:58:17 %lang(ca) %{_kde4_docdir}/HTML/ca/konq-plugins Okt 07 18:58:17 %lang(de) %{_kde4_docdir}/HTML/de/konq-plugins Okt 07 18:58:18 Kevin_Kofler: find_lang has a documented --kde option, just that's unimplemented. Okt 07 18:58:18 etc. Okt 07 18:58:33 I think we really need a better solution. Okt 07 18:58:56 I've also seen your (rdieter's) copy&pasted scripts in some of the packages which should really be a macro. :-( Okt 07 18:59:05 (for that very purpose) Okt 07 18:59:12 totally agree. Okt 07 18:59:54 Anything we can do about that? Okt 07 18:59:58 I've been meaning to do that for a long time, just never got to it. Okt 07 19:00:34 to do: write/patch find_lang to "do the right thing" when passed --kde parameter Okt 07 19:00:34 it is ugly copy pasted from other packages... should be macro Okt 07 19:01:32 Shouldn't we just put our own macro into kde-filesystem? Okt 07 19:01:51 The problem with updating find_lang is that it will take ages until we can use it consistently. Okt 07 19:02:05 Kevin_Kofler: find_lang is the better place, imo, but if that takes too long or isn't accepted, then by all means, we can make our own Okt 07 19:02:08 Especially for the RHEL builds at kde-redhat and EPEL. Okt 07 19:03:00 --> kital (n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 19:03:03 make a short-term: kde_find_lang (suggestions for better names for macro welcome) Okt 07 19:03:20 kde_find_doc_lang? Okt 07 19:03:39 Or do you want to do both find_lang and the documentation stuff in a single macro? Okt 07 19:04:32 --> petreu (n=peter@fedora/petreu) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 07 19:05:02 we can haggle on the technical/implementation details once we have a prototype, anything past that is bikeshedding at this point. :) Okt 07 19:05:49 Hmmm, we're already over time... Okt 07 19:06:04 * Kevin_Kofler is a horrible moderator when it comes to respecting time constraints. Okt 07 19:06:26 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-10-07 - Open Discussion Okt 07 19:06:41 Anything else to discuss, which is important enough for it to have to be now? Okt 07 19:07:14 <-- baard1973 hat sich getrennt ("Leaving") Okt 07 19:07:16 <-- Zool^Wrk hat sich getrennt ("Leaving") Okt 07 19:07:30 Otherwise, I'd suggest we close the meeting here, we can go back to #fedora-kde for any further discussion. Okt 07 19:08:09 -> #fedora-kde and for me office -> home Okt 07 19:08:39 Kevin_Kofler, could you upload the irc log, please? Okt 07 19:08:44 <-- nphilipp hat sich getrennt ("Leaving") Okt 07 19:08:58 svahl: Yes, I can do that. Okt 07 19:09:03 thx Okt 07 19:09:08 <-- jreznik hat sich getrennt ("Konversation terminated!") Okt 07 19:09:20 --- Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert auf: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule