[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:06:52] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE-SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-12-02 -- Init". [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:06:59] KDE SIG Meeting start, who's present today? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:07:06] * ltinkl is here [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:07:11] * G__81 is here [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:07:37] present (partly) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:07:38] * XulChris lurks [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:08:02] than, Kevin_Kofler: ping [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:08:11] present [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:08:11] Present. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:08:23] Present [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:09:05] Future. -- ill be here in a bit.. ;-) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:09:50] short agenda today, but first I'd like to take an opportunity to welcome G__81 , mind introducing yourself briefly? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:10:09] yeah sure [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:11:33] This is Balaji from india, working for a telecom company as a software developer in chennai a city in india. I have been contributing to fedora and have been part of docs(fedora-wiki), have been testing packages from bodhi, a little bit of bug fixing and an ambassador for my region which is chennai [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:08] thanks rdieter [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:16] * XulChris checks maps.google.com for chennai [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:36] alrighty, next topic: kde-4.1.80 rawhide import status/report [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:41] nice, next to the ocean [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:44] XulChris: That's what Marble is for. ;-) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:54] * XulChris investigates marble [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:57] G__81: welcome on board! nice to have here some docs guy, we are working on KDE 4 desktop guide :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:13:14] jreznik: ^^ was thinking about the same :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:13:48] thanks jreznik i could contribute to the docs too but i also want to contribute on bug fixing and packaging but have not done packaging :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:14:36] jreznik, infact i work on routing,security protocols and the linux kernel in the networking subsystem :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:14:58] Any help on fixing bugs can also be really useful. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:14:58] G__81: KDE SIG job is nice because it's from artwork, packaging, docs writing to bug fixing :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:01] yeah :) i am ready to learn something new :). [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:11] and contribute back to the community :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:12] G__81: one of your initial interests was helping with kpackagekit, right? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:24] I'm probably the one who does most of the fixes done by Fedora's KDE SIG (though than and ltinkl also do some), I could definitely use some help. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:47] Of course any fixes should also be submitted upstream. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:57] yeah kpackagekit of course and am willing to contribute in other teams too :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:17:25] why does kpackagekit require smart? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:17:27] getting kpackagekit on par with gnome-package kit would be very nice [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:17:45] i am learning the art of packaging and infact to kick start my journey took the klearlooks and lipstik and took those spec files made the package. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:05] SMSParish is the name against those packages but couldnt contact him [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:05] i uninstalled kpacakgekit solely because of the fact that it installed smart on my system [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:25] XulChris: don't confuse kpacakgekit with kdeadmin-kpackage [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:32] hmm, it shouldn't require smart [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:42] rdieter: oh ya maybe that was it [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:03] rdieter, if there is something apart from kpackagekit also you want me to work on i am ready to do it :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:12] XulChris: kpackagekit doesn't require smart, you're mixing it up with kpackage. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:36] (That's also why kpackage is split out of kdeadmin in Fedora.) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:51] i see [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:59] ok, thanks for clarifying [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:20:03] Kevin_Kofler: how far on 4.1.80 stuff have you gotten? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:20:15] KPackage is pretty buggy and incomplete, and they had just migrated everything to smart when PackageKit came and it got all obsolete. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:20:24] rdieter: Well, I think we're about half through. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:20:35] ok, what's left? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:21:03] well, doesn't matter, we can get details after meeting, and split up the remaining jobs [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:21:22] Most of the stuff which doesn't depend on Plasma (I fixed the Plasma-related stuff first because it had a broken dep on the old libplasma). [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:21:26] i can start off with some trivial tasks so that i get a feel of it [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:21:53] I'm working on kdeplasma-addons now, just the file list left to fix. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:22:43] Kevin_Kofler: jreznik ran into an issue with kde-plasma-quickaccess, and problems linking libkonq, since it's in libdir/kde4/devel [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:04] any ideas of how to better "fix" that, other than hacking in -Llibdir/kde4/devel ? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:16] rdieter, anything that i could do here ? :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:17] there doesn't seem to exist any current cmake checks for libkonq [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:23] rdieter: with ugly hack as you suggested i can build it, but I'll prepare better solution [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:41] G__81: are you familiar with cmake? :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:44] i am a newbie but willing to learn and start off with small things :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:48] ${KDE4_PLASMA_LIBS} ${KDE4_KDEUI_LIBS} ${KDE4_KIO_LIBS} kfile ${LIB_INSTALL_DIR}/kde4/devel/libkonq.so) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:52] ugly [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:24:07] rdieter, yeah i ve used it for compiling my own program when i had written some QT3 stuff [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:24:17] jreznik: what'd you have in mind? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:24:17] i ve used cmake and moc [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:24:43] G__81: cmake is pretty new, sure you don't mean qmake? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:01] in times of Qt3 qmake [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:01] Oh sorry [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:08] rdieter, got confused sorry [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:12] np [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:45] We can't just put libkonq in libdir, there's still the KDE 3 one used by stuff (e.g. KDE 3 Krusader in F9). [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:26:00] if there are some trivial tasks to be done something like code cleanup fixing some warnigs etc i could start off [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:26:32] This hardcoding of -l flags is a bad idea and a KDE 4.2 regression. :-( [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:26:46] I think it also breaks in other setups than ours. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:27:09] (Pretty much everything with the libraries not in the default libdir.) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:28:11] I was able to fix it for the plasma libs used in kdeplasma-addons because those are KDE 4 only anyway, but libkonq is a problem. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:28:37] * rdieter was thinking kdebase-devel could provide a cmake macro for LIBKONQ and friends, or something like that. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:29:15] How is libkonq linked in by kde-plasma-quickaccess (exact cmake line)? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:29:34] target_link_libraries(plasma_applet_quickaccess ${PLASMA_LIBS} ${KDE4_KDEUI_LIBS} ${KDE4_KIO_LIBS} kfile konq) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:30:28] So defining an exported konq target like the ones in kdelibs should work. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:31:56] Kevin_Kofler: I think so, it should help... tomorrow I'll take a look [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:33:46] well, 4.1.80 was pretty much it for the agenda, any other topics to discuss today? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:33:56] Thema rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE-SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-12-02 -- Open Discussion". [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:34:25] can we have kde 4.2beta rpms for f10 on kde-redhat repo? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:34:38] yeah how do i start off with ? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:34:58] G__81: do you want to become a packager? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:35:39] i am new to packaging but yeah i could do packaging i just tried couple of packages klearlooks,lipstik [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:35:43] XulChris: as soon as we have a collection of pkgs that build cleanly, that's an option, but not before. :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:36:09] G__81: threre's a good list of wishlist pkgs you could look over as well. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:36:47] yes but with respect to kpackagekit should i start off with something ? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:37:32] G__81: best to discuss kpackagekit issues with SMParrish_away , he's the primary maintainer [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:37:48] but I'm aware of nothing atm that needswork there [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:38:04] G__81: best point to start is to package something you are missing in repository [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:38:14] yeah i tried pinging me couple of days back he was not there [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:38:19] nod, that's the best practice. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:38:21] You could also try to get in contact with KPackageKit's upstream and work on adding features there. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:06] does the kde spin still use gtk based system-config guis? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:13] Yes. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:17] Oh Ok [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:39] is there any effort to make pyqt or qt equivilants of the system-config dialogs? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:52] i can try working on it [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:57] XulChris: No. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:01] XulChris: yes [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:03] using pyqt or qt [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:09] jreznik: Oh there is? :-) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:15] Are you working on it? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:22] Kevin_Kofler: system-config-printer [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:27] asking me ? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:33] That one was done by the Kubuntu folks. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:39] And it's the only system-config tool they use. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:45] So don't expect any more like that from them. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:52] yes, the only one [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:11] Anyway, I don't really see the benefit of porting the tools. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:12] but it's based on system-config-printer from fedora as I've heard [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:17] what if someone took the time to write fedora ones using pyqt, would that be a waste of time? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:21] GTK+ apps work just fine in KDE. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:30] Kevin_Kofler: not porting but rewriting from scratch [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:41] Even worse. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:42] XulChris, i can probably give it a try [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:57] Kevin_Kofler: some of these utils are really outdated [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:58] you mean re-writing :) ? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:42:08] rewriting system-config-* apps, while nice, isn't all that useful, there are much more productive ways to spend you time/energy [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:42:24] if it were me, i would rewrite them, making them better than the pygtk versions [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:42:35] every s-c-tool is going to be rewrited! [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:42:44] policykit migration [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:43:10] i can probably do some work in that area if something needs to be done [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:43:44] G__81: its not needed, i just hate those ugly gtk fedora apps [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:44:11] reminds me of those redhat apps that shipped with redhat 3.x ;-) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:44:37] so after policykit migration and separation of backend/frontend it will be easier to write Qt frontend [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:44:51] but now the task is to clean these old ones [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:44:59] cool [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:45:18] once the frontend is seperated out, writing a pyqt port should be cake [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:45:36] well I think s-c-netboot is dead... [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:46:47] jreznik: is there any info on the web about this s-c-* rewrite? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:49:08] XulChris: it's using python-slip I've attended Harald Hoyer's presentation about it [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:49:47] What's python-slip? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:49:51] https://fedorahosted.org/system-config-kdump/ it's one of s-c-tools already ported [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:50:11] rdieter, if there is some work in other kde teams in fedora too i could do and am interested apart from me packaging stuff for fedora [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:50:42] eager beaver, ok, next topic: brainstorm jobs for G__81 . :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:50:43] Kevin_Kofler: python binding for policykit [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:51:27] thanks rdieter :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:52:17] G__81: try kde-apps.org to find interesting kde applications to package [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:53:15] One more thing we should discuss: should we use a _default_patch_fuzz of 2 (or even 3) for the KDE packages or should we stay with RPM's default of 0? [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:53:44] We had it set to 2 in the F10 packages, but lvillani rediffed all the patches and then dropped the setting, so now it's to 0 in devel. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:54:05] Which means that if some other change introduces fuzz, we have to either rediff again or just set _default_patch_fuzz again. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:54:38] I consider RPM's new default to be a pointless annoyance. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:54:57] its not a requirement [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:55:04] its up to the package maintainer AFAIK [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:55:08] imo, use default 0 where reasonable. If it ever becomes unreasonable, switch back to 2. :) (which is pretty much what we're doing now) [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:55:40] +1, I think 0 is safer [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:55:43] if you have 50 patches, you dont have time to repatch everything [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:57:45] Strangely, the request to use 0 as the default in RPM came from the kernel folks, who have hundreds of patches. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:58:14] They say the risk of an incorrectly-applied patch is higher with non-zero fuzz. [Di Dez 2 2008] [17:59:35] try using fuzz 0, and if you only have to fix 1-2 patches each release, then its no big deal, if you have to fix 10 patches each release, then maybe reset fuzz back to 2 [Di Dez 2 2008] [18:00:01] Kevin_Kofler: kernel folks got burned by misapplied fuzzy patches... that's why. :) [Di Dez 2 2008] [18:00:58] Well, one misapplied fuzzy patch really. [Di Dez 2 2008] [18:01:07] whats the most # of patches we have for any one package? [Di Dez 2 2008] [18:01:13] yeah, gross over-reaction, imo, but oh well [Di Dez 2 2008] [18:01:15] And they said they'd rather do more work all the time than risk another incidence of the problem. [Di Dez 2 2008] [18:02:00] looks like we're about out of time for today, let's wrap things up. [Di Dez 2 2008] [18:02:25] ok [Di Dez 2 2008] [18:02:27] KDE SIG Meeting End