13:00 < spevack> Ok, the first meeting of the Fedora Store SIG starts now
13:00 < spevack> who is around?
13:00  * couf gets in the rabble seats
13:00 < ke4qqq> DavidNalley
13:00 < spevack> let's do a quick roll call -- I'm MaxSpevack
13:00 < tw2113> MichaelBeckwith
13:01 < iWolf> JeffreyTadlock
13:01 < couf> BartCouvreur
13:01 < ljuwiadah> Oh, cool! what a co-incidence :)
13:01 < ljuwiadah> LaithJuwaidah
13:01 < spevack> ok, if other people start following along, just say hello.
13:01 < spevack> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Store
13:02 < spevack> for anyone who hasn't seen it, this is the page that we have so far
13:02 < spevack> I'd like to start by spending a few minutes
13:02 < spevack> trying to define some SCOPE and some GOALS
13:02 < spevack> the way I see it, there are a few main problems we need to solve
13:02 < spevack> in no particular order":
13:02 < spevack> (1) Making it easier for Ambassadors and Event Organizers to get swag
13:02 < spevack> (2) Making it easier for people who just want a single tshirt or something like that to get it
13:03 < spevack> (3) Making it as easy and automated as possible for designers to create new items
13:03 < spevack> (4) Not having to do any physical distribution ourselves
13:03 < spevack> any feedback?
13:03  * bpepple sits in the bleachers.
13:04 < ljuwiadah> spevack: Will it ship everywhere?
13:04 < ljuwiadah> Even to ME?
13:04 < spevack> yes.  (5) being able to provide that service internationally, not just in the United States
13:04 < spevack> ljuwiadah: where are you? :)
13:04 < ljuwiadah> Oman
13:04 < tw2113> i think we at least need a static portal page on fedoraproject.org
13:04 < tw2113> shows what is available
13:05 < tw2113> and if anything, points you in the right direction to get it, whether a single user or ambassador
13:05 < spevack> so there are a few areas in which we can divide work up already, i think.
13:05 < ke4qqq> I am not sure a single solution will work - seems like we discussed this a few years back about the costs involved in getting swag to EMEA ambassadors
13:05 < spevack> There's a front end like you suggest -- something that can be an initial point of contact for folks
13:05 < spevack> and try to point them in the right direction
13:05 < spevack> and then there is the various backends -- places where orders can actually be made and processed
13:06 < spevack> and populating those backends with actual product
13:06 ... join!#fedora-mktg -> JonRob(n=jon@exhalls-4.ex.ac.uk)
13:06 < spevack> I think that requirement #1 is that we (meaning Fedora) don't do any credit card processing, paypal processing, or actual production/delivery ourselves
13:06 < spevack> Because the reason why this sort of stuff has always failed in the past is that it hasn't been sufficiently automated
13:06 < couf> +1
13:07 < tw2113> plus there are services that specialize in this area, and that's their whole reason for being
13:07 < spevack> right
13:07 < spevack> So. I think that immediately we can
13:07 < tw2113> quality issue aside, cafepress has their own purpose
13:07 < spevack> (1) start putting together ideas of what a "front page" will look like
13:07 < spevack> and (2) investigating various back-end ideas.
13:07 < spevack> Let's talk about (1) for a moment.
13:08 < spevack> Would someone like to volunteer to work with the fedora websites team and start putting together ideas of what a store.fedoraproject.org page could look like?  not production-ready code, but mockups, ideas for content, etc.?
13:09 < ljuwiadah> spevack: I can TRY...
13:09 < spevack> ljuwiadah: let's brainstorm a little bit right now
13:09 < ljuwiadah> ok...
13:09 < couf> I'm sorta on that team, so could be a guide there too
13:09 < ljuwiadah> i was thinking of something like thinkgeek's website
13:09 < tw2113> organization of the page would be a good thing to discuss
13:10 < tw2113> do we want to list the product one time and provide single as well as bulk order buttons?
13:10 < spevack> ljuwiadah: i think we need to be able to "feature" a few items, and also have clear pointers for people who are looking for bulk and also for one-offs
13:10 < tw2113> or would we want to seperate it by purpose: user vs ambassador
13:10 < ljuwiadah> categories with a sample of the category, then, when clicked, a page opens with the items and their thumbnails
13:11 < spevack> tw2113: +1 -- i think the flow is different for "i need stuff for an event" versus "i just want 1 thing"
13:11 < iWolf> I see user needs and ambassadors needs as quite different.
13:11 < ke4qqq> so do I
13:11 < ljuwiadah> may be a what's new page too, that can be the main page, with the other pages accessed from a menu on the side
13:11 < spevack> iWolf: is it just a matter of getting stuff in bulk, or are there other differences?
13:12 < iWolf> Mainly the matter of getting items in bulk with little fuss.
13:12 < ke4qqq> spevack: there are other differences - like payment - arranging for international shipments to include the 'free media' letter, etc.
13:12 < iWolf> And even perhaps a more limited selections of swag that are good for handing out at events.
13:13 < iWolf> And ideally you will sell to an Ambassador at the lowest price possible.
13:13 < spevack> So we have (1) new/featured items, (2) a specific place for bulk purchases
13:13 < iWolf> To facilitate having more swag to hand out or sell for a small mark up.
13:13 < ljuwiadah> or, we can make so that you choose the item, then, you get asked whether you want to order it for ambassador purposes or personal ones
13:13 < spevack> I would add to that (3) some way of knowing "what is available for reasonable shipping prices in my region"
13:13 < iWolf> +1
13:13 < tw2113> i think the initial page should show new/featured items
13:14 < tw2113> and then you have 2 main menu headings based on your needs
13:14 < tw2113> click "User" and the list of available stuff shows
13:14 < couf> yeah, go KISS as the rest of the static websites
13:14 < spevack> couf: +1
13:14 < tw2113> click "ambassador" and you get their list
13:14 ... join!#fedora-mktg -> jmbuser(n=jmbuser@195.229.24.83)
13:15 < spevack> ok, so ljuwiadah will you summarize some of these ideas in a note to the fedora-websites list, explain that we are trying to put together some mockup ideas, and see if any of the folks who are already familiar with the fp.o templates are willing to help out a little bit?
13:16 < ljuwiadah> spevack: sure :)
13:16 < spevack> And we can see what kind of response that gets at next week's meeting
13:16 < spevack> ljuwiadah: thank you!
13:16 < couf> ljuwiadah: I'll back you up then
13:16 < spevack> couf: excellent
13:16 < spevack> so let's spend a few minutes now thinking about some of the backend.
13:16 < spevack> because that is where I fear it gets a bit messy
13:16 < tw2113> i'm part of the team there as well and will support them
13:17 < spevack> now, I know that people have expressed concerns about CafePress
13:17 < spevack> from a quality perspective
13:17 < spevack> but for the sake of argument, let's just assume them for a moment.
13:17 < ljuwiadah> tw2113, couf: cool!
13:17 < tw2113> my question for backend is do we want to use a small handful of companies or try to find one to do it all?
13:17 < spevack> Imagine a list of items -- some available on CafePress, which is good for US-based folks, and some available on some other store -- call it CafeEuro, which offers better shipping for european folks
13:18 < spevack> we need a way to help designers get different items populated into the different suppliers and producers of swag
13:18 < spevack> and I don't want to force the designers to have a bunch of different accounts, etc.
13:18 < spevack> So there are a few specific items here:
13:18 < spevack> (1) We need to identify good producers in various geographies
13:19 ... join!#fedora-mktg -> sereinity(n=sereinit@mon69-3-82-235-39-70.fbx.proxad.net)
13:19 < spevack> (2) We need to have a team (one person or more) that helps be the intermediary between those stores and the designers.
13:19 < ljuwiadah> spevack: we can do like what amarok is doing
13:19 < ljuwiadah> http://amarok.kde.org/gear
13:19 < spevack> interesting
13:19 < tw2113> i think it would be a good idea to have people go out and try to locate various distributors and bring a list of what was found to next week's meeting
13:19 < spevack> everyone go look at that link ^^^^^
13:19 < spevack> tw2113: i agree.
13:20 < couf> tw2113: +1
13:20 < spevack> and basically what we need to do is some of the grunt work and say "if you are trying to design something, here is what you need to provide for that item to go into multiple stores"
13:20 < spevack> make it as simple for the artists as possible so as to not waste their time
13:21 < spevack> I think that we should start by trying to identify producers in the US and the EU, since that is where our largest usage is based on the mirrorlist and bittorrent maps
13:21 < spevack> And if we can solve those areas, then we can think about other regions.
13:22 < spevack> But we should do this in steps, so that we don't overwhelm ourselves.
13:22 < tw2113> i almost want to suggest just using REVELinux
13:22 < tw2113> which is where that link lead me
13:22 < tw2113> "REVELinux Gear was started in 2004 as a way for us to promote and support Free and Open Source Software projects."
13:22 < spevack> it looks like revelinux is the same as spreadshirt.net, which someone suggested on the list yesterday
13:23 < ljuwiadah> +1, they have everything, even thongs :P
13:23 < couf> yeah the fedora-fr guys are using that right?
13:24 < ljuwiadah> just a quick question, where will the money go?
13:24 < spevack> tw2113: can you do some research into how customizable they are, "what happens to the money", and "how easy is it to do bulk orders at the lowest possible price"
13:24 < spevack> because those are the main questions
13:24 < tw2113> yeah, i can contact REVElinux
13:25 < spevack> tw2113: cool, thank you.
13:25 < spevack> So I think that we've managed to put together a few action items here for this week -- I'd like to have another meeting next week at the same time, but hopefully we can get some discussion on the fedora-marketing-list this week
13:25 < spevack> and maybe have some progress.
13:26 < iWolf> One other thought...
13:26 < spevack> I'd like to have our goal be "an initial prototype up and running by December 4th"
13:26 < iWolf> More from the ambassador side, and less applicable to the user side.
13:26 < spevack> iWolf: go ahead
13:26 < ljuwiadah> Do we have a calendar for the meetings?
13:26 < spevack> ljuwiadah: I will add it to the Store SIG page
13:26 < iWolf> What about a list of distributors that can make our T-shirts, stickers and the ambassador can contact them directly.
13:26 < spevack> for now, every wednesday at this time for 30 minutes
13:27 < iWolf> For example, for OLF2006 I went through a local T-shirt shop.  Great prices, high quality, etc.
13:27 < spevack> iWolf: yeah, that's an excellent idea.
13:27 < iWolf> So we could list a handful of those for various regions.  Create some sort of vendor relationship, so they have our logo and know how we like our T-shirts and stickers.
13:27 < spevack> iWolf: we don't have a page like that anywhere already?
13:27 ... join!#fedora-mktg -> DavidsonPaulo(n=dpaulo@gtw.niteroi.unimed.com.br)
13:28 < iWolf> I am not aware of one, I may have missed it.
13:28  * spevack cries
13:28 < spevack> iWolf: want to make one?
13:28 < iWolf> spevack: I could just be missing one..  :)
13:28 < iWolf> I can work on making one.  I can post to the ambassador list to see who has been used in the past.
13:28 < iWolf> by various people.
13:29 < spevack> iWolf: yeah, just throw up an initial page, add your stuff, and then send a note to ambassadors-list and people will fill it in.  Try to sort it based on general geography
13:29 < spevack> So we have 3 action items from today:
13:29 < iWolf> spevack: willdo.
13:29 < spevack> (1) Contact websites list -- ljuwiadah 
13:29 < spevack> (2) investigate revelinux -- tw2113 
13:30 < spevack> (3) companies that we have good relationships with page -- iWolf 
13:30 < spevack> anything else?  I'm trying to keep the meeting to 30 minutes, but we can keep chatting if folks want to.
13:30 < tw2113> (4) look for possible online distributors that are hopefully not region dependent -- everyone
13:30 < spevack> right
13:31  * spevack will post the IRC log to the SIG page, etc.
13:31 < tw2113> i have nothing else for now
13:31 < iWolf> sounds good to me.
13:31 < spevack> thank you all for coming!  I hope that as we make some progress, even more people will join.  There were lots of names on the SIG page
13:31 < spevack> -------------- adjourned ---------------