[11:14] * rdieter puts his kde-sig hat on... [11:14] And KDE SIG will meet at 1600 UTC starting from next week. [11:14] abadger1999, understod [11:14] Kevin_Kofler, hmm [11:15] Isn't that when we're supposed to meet? 16 GMT/UTC? [11:15] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-13 -- Init". [11:15] Kevin_Kofler, is this prefered somehow? [11:15] who's around, present today? [11:15] I mean, there's nothing new in that... [11:15] ljuwiadah, no, 1700 [11:15] * ljuwiadah is thinking [11:15] If FPC meets at 1700 UTC from next week on, then we have to move back to 1600. [11:15] ljuwiadah, it's been 1700 for some time, one of the reaons i started coming [11:16] 9-4=5 [11:16] 5+12=17 [11:16] sorry :D [11:16] i thought we had the 1700 slot [11:16] last i read [11:16] role call first, then we can discuss meeting scheduling... :) [11:17] than: ping? [11:17] pembo13, present [11:17] [Notify] than went offline (irc.freenode.org). [11:17] so it's gonna be one hour earlier? [11:17] ok, moving on... [11:18] KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-13 -- New meeting time 16:00 UTC ? [11:18] Confusion around FPC'ers and US timezones vs UTC. [11:18] I offered that we could be flexible, and move (back) to 16:00 UTC to give them the 17:00 slot for meeting [11:19] comments? problems with that? [11:19] rdieter, 1700 was nice [11:21] pembo13_com: is 1600 a problem? can't make that? [11:21] rdieter, less comfortable, should technically still be able to makeit [11:22] rdieter, ie. 1600 okay, just noting pref. of 1700 [11:22] rdieter: same here, OK with 1600 but I prefer 1700 [11:22] alternative is to look for a different slot. [11:22] rdieter, well tuesdays at this time are good for me as i'm often in a class [11:23] we can have additional meeting times too, if folks want that, but someone else would have to offer to lead those (other than me). [11:23] * rdieter thinks than is avoiding him. [11:23] ok, let's move on... [11:24] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-13 -- Fedora 8 is out, it's time for some review". [11:25] I like it :) [11:25] haven't gotten to 8 yet, though quanta in F7 is pissing me off [11:26] I haven't used it a lot on 8, but, it hasn't crashed yet [11:26] considerations include: [11:26] KDE-related articles about Fedora 8 [11:26] How good works knetworkmanager/nm-applet for the end user [11:26] automatism are not good. I've not noticed that I haven't joint the right channel :) [11:26] How good works pulseaudio in KDE for the end user [11:26] Retrospect the development process F7 to F8 [11:27] svahl: :) any comments here on F8 reflection? [11:27] to explain the topics a little bit: I've put them in the agenda because I think it would be good for doing some review of our development process [11:28] hopefully i'll get to F8 next week, during the break .... seems like stable may need as much testing as testing [11:28] I've not found an article with a review of KDE in F8. So we could drop that one [11:28] niether have i [11:28] which is weird [11:29] and has anybody heard some things about knetworkmanager (beside bugs)? [11:29] considering that this is the first release that has kde spin on the download page [11:29] svahl: re KDE in F8 articles, or we could (help) write one. [11:30] Kevin_Kofler worked on one for F7 for dot.kde.org [11:30] ljuwiadah: kde spin was on dl page for F7 too, no? [11:30] Unfortunately, I've been too busy to do the same for F8. :-( [11:31] IMO such articles are a good start for a reflection and critics. That don't really work I we'll write one at our own :) [11:31] rdieter, wasn't as clear [11:31] rdieter: think so (dl f7 spin) [11:31] i think KDE users are too busy to be writing silly articles [11:31] pembo13_com: the old dl page certainly wasn't very good, agreed. much better now [11:31] I don't remember it was... plus, they even had a voting for including it on some mailing list [11:31] quite, props to the website gus [11:32] forgive my ignorance, but the KDE spin is a live cd, right? [11:32] right [11:32] pembo13_com: yes [11:32] or: live image [11:32] ljuwiadah, that's what i thought [11:32] guess i'll give it a try istead of the usual fedora dvd [11:33] Installable live CD, can't be used to upgrade older Fedora though, unless you want to reinstall. [11:33] for pulseaudio: any problems noticed in the world? In my german forum nobody (really) complains about it (or not working apps) [11:33] i always fresh install [11:34] svahl: I'm (still) seeing pulseaudio die from time to time when suspending. It's easy enough to restart, but annoying. [11:34] I never bothered downloading a DVD, first, it's huge, second, i don't have a dvd writer, third, why bother choose kde apps when you can download them packed? :P [11:34] I might just update my repository for nine, sounds cool! [11:35] rdieter: so am I. Also I've problems with a sound module not working after wakeup. But that seems to be no problem with KDE at all, only pulseaudio [11:36] I only feel bad that I hadn't actually tried post-test3 live imags, and missed the knetworkmanager inducing "can't logout of KDE" problem that made it to the final release. [11:36] svahl: sound module not working -> kernel issue [11:36] me too. AFAIR it introduced only a few days before final release [11:37] but there were also some other selinux issues [11:37] ah, I'm seeing lots of selinux bugs being filed, but I can't repdroduce any of them myself. [11:37] mostly against kdm. [11:38] hmm, i think anakonda should be a bit more intelligent and ask a few more questions [11:38] but that's kinda OT [11:38] It can't ask much when installing from a live CD, because it only does a dd + resize. [11:38] From the DVD, there's more questions asked. [11:39] [Notify] notting went offline (irc.freenode.org). [11:39] was thinking more of the DVD myself, sorry... is SELinux enabled on the LiveCD too? [11:39] ok. next topic? Time is limited today [11:39] pembo13_com: sure. selinux is in enforcing mode [11:40] svahl, ok, expected otherwise (even though i like SELinux) [11:40] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-13 -- The weekly KDE4 talk". [11:40] kde-3.95.2 is coming along nicely, stalled on needing 2 reviews done: [11:41] ggz-client-libs: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=370751 (for kdegames) [11:41] Bug 370751: medium, medium, ---, Nobody's working on this, feel free to take it, NEW , Review Request: ggz-client-libs - Client libraries for GGZ gaming zone [11:41] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=374531 [11:41] Bug 374531: medium, medium, ---, Nobody's working on this, feel free to take it, NEW , Review Request: kdebase-runtime - K Desktop Environment - Runtime [11:41] And the existing kdebase4 will become kdebase-apps? [11:42] Kevin_Kofler: maybe, haven't thought too much about that part yet. :) [11:42] I'm focussing on getting kde4 dev platform + kdegames, kdeedu done first [11:43] OK [11:43] I'll try pinging tibbs today finish up the ggz bits. Nobody has looked-at/commented on kdebase-runtime at all yet... hint hint. [11:44] rdieter: Yeah, it's probably OK now but with this cold I haven't been able to concentrate. [11:44] tibbs: thx. [11:44] tibbs: and get better! [11:45] any other comments kde4-wise? move on? [11:46] move on [11:46] oh, and I (still) can't get kde4/phonon to play any sounds, at least when using apps from kdegames4, kdeedu4. [11:46] wierd. [11:47] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-13 -- 1 background per hour (possibly good enough?)". [11:47] can someone provide a status report on the changing background thingy? [11:47] It's woking super fine! [11:48] It uses kde's advanced desktop [11:48] and can someone provide the needed backgrounds for testing this? :) [11:48] and no more hard coded things (timezone and location of script) [11:49] svahl: Give me a min [11:50] what about the license: Does CC-BY-SA need to be mentioned in the package were we put the script (maybe kde-settings?) [11:51] Don't know, haven't licensed any work before, but, for me, i just want to protect the script :) [11:51] http://people.redhat.com/duffy/artwork/infinity-24/ [11:51] BTW [11:51] One problem [11:51] KDE doesn't support resizing the images automatically, so, we're gonna have to release different packages for different resolutions [11:52] ljuwiadah, seems like a small problem [11:52] ljuwiadah, seems prefered to me [11:52] or your script can resize the images as needed. [11:52] ljuwiadah, less CPU usage [11:53] but this is a good first try. [11:53] we cannot force user to install a package for different sizes [11:53] what's the .xcf file? [11:53] svahl, one package with all the sizes? [11:53] .xcf = gimp original? [11:53] pembo13_com: resizing would be the best (IMO) [11:54] svahl, hmm, ok [11:54] rdieter: unless I find something on CPAN for resizing pictures.... [11:54] or scale/strech/fit the background [11:54] use ImageMagick/GraphicsMagic. mogrify is your friend. [11:54] ljuwiadah, might introduce some deps, no? [11:55] there's even an ImageMagick-perl module [11:55] how about just one max res for widescreen and another for 4:3, and let KDE stretch accordingly [11:55] pembo13_com: No, doesn't work, you'll see 1/4 of the screen, tried that already [11:55] pembo13_com: KDE doesn't support stretching here. [11:55] *1/4 of the image [11:55] ljuwiadah, i see [11:55] ok [11:56] Will there be another meeting after our? [11:56] so I'll try to find that imagemagick and see what I can do... [11:58] ok. next topic? Rahul put QPackageKit on our agend [11:58] a [11:58] we can go over time today [11:59] ah. ok. so there's no time to hurry :) [11:59] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-13 -- Package QPackageKit?". [11:59] http://hughsient.livejournal.com/46192.html [11:59] s/time/need [12:00] Stalwart: you were helping on that, do you think it is in a form close to packaging for fedora yet? [12:00] uh? [12:00] i tried it yesterday [12:00] just to voice my opinion, i kinda like all the system tools being in python and gtk (no gnome, no qt) [12:00] too incomplete for daily use [12:01] i'd still recommend kyum or something else for casual users [12:01] Stalwart: ok, that's what I thought, maybe let's wait a bit, let it mature before working to package it up for inclusion in the repo. [12:01] but, let's not wait too long. Even an incomplete app can benefit from early adopters and additional testing. [12:01] i plan to hack it, stay tuned ;) [12:01] I'm sorry, what are you talking about? [12:02] Stalwart: when/if you think it's close to being usable, let us know. [12:02] PackageKit is another gui for package management [12:02] ljuwiadah: http://hughsient.livejournal.com/46192.html [12:02] ljuwiadah: have a look at the header of your irc client [12:02] I know, what's QPackageKit? [12:02] a qt frontend [12:03] rdieter, i'm about to start developing kde4 gui from scratch based on libqpackagekit [12:03] for yum? [12:03] it's a planned F9 feature [12:03] It'd be a very good idea to keep KDE/Qt stuff in sync here [12:03] IMHO, i don't think any good will come of duplicating these efforts for the sake of having Qt versions [12:03] Oh! for packagekit :D [12:03] if we're really going to use PackageKit to finally drag package management out of the distro-specific ghetto [12:04] pembo13_com, it's not effort duplication unless i fork libqpackagekit [12:04] it's just another POV on how gui should be done [12:04] Stalwart, the GUI code is going to be duplicated, the documentation will have to be redone accordinly [12:04] then either you need to package QPackageKit (to help ensure it gets feature-parity with the gtk stuff) [12:04] pembo13_com: yeah, may the best tool win. [12:04] or reject it entirely [12:05] i'd like to make package management gui that doesn't require documentation [12:05] and i have few ideas about it [12:05] rdieter, hmm i like Qt, but i think having these kinda tools in pygtk is just fine [12:05] pembo13_com: I don't care what toolkit is used (either), as long as it "just works" [12:05] Stalwart, that i can maybe get behind [12:06] Stalwart, even then, it would be nice to have it in pygtk [12:06] the packagekit-gnome stuff is just plain gtk AFAIK [12:06] wwoods, should be renamed accordingly then [12:06] and if anyone is going to package it - please make libqpackagekit and qpackagekit separate packages [12:06] wwoods, helps avoid this kinda DE hating [12:06] tell it to hughsie then, I guess [12:06] he didn't package it yet [12:07] I think he's commented "oops, shoulda called it packagekit-gtk, oh well" before [12:07] even more - he published it after my request [12:07] think i will file bugs again all packages that have gnome in them and should be DE agnostic [12:07] highsie rocks (from what I've seen), and doesn't deserve any criticism here. :) [12:07] now that sounds like a colossal waste of time [12:08] i suppose [12:08] how about we worry about ways to make things work together better instead of avoiding Bad Words like "gnome" [12:08] excuse my ignorance, packagekit? sounds like a yum replacement [12:08] pembo13_com: gratuitous name changing isn't productive [12:08] fair enough [12:08] ljuwiadah, not replacement, an improvement [12:08] ljuwiadah: it's a frontend that works with any distro-specific packaging backend [12:08] ljuwiadah, more like yum abstraction [12:08] yum, apt, smart, whatever [12:08] ljuwiadah: packagekit.org (see FAQ). :) [12:08] move on? [12:09] just a few bug fyi's: [12:09] it's an effort to make it so all linux distros can have high-quality package tools that work the same everywhere [12:09] Oh! and it has a gtk frontend but not qt, and you're discussing creating a qt-based one? [12:09] ljuwiadah, more or less, yes [12:09] ljuwiadah, someone already has [12:09] actually there is a QT front end. [12:09] ljuwiadah: read ages that require a specific version of firefox. [12:09] blam [12:09] chmsee [12:09] devhelp [12:09] ljuwiadah, work is started and i'm going to contribute [12:09] aww crap [12:09] http://hughsient.livejournal.com/46192.html [12:09] read http://hughsient.livejournal.com/46192.html [12:10] Oh! [12:10] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-13 -- recent/active kde bugs". [12:11] a variant of our favorite f8 bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=376331 [12:11] Bug 376331: medium, low, ---, Ngo Than, NEEDINFO , KDE logout doesn't work [12:11] probably a dupe. [12:11] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=378041 [12:11] Bug 378041: low, low, ---, Ngo Than, NEW , kdebase: unable to mount removable/ntfs [12:11] looks mostly harmless. [12:12] lemme go see if I can find any other good ones [12:12] lots of these after kde-3.5.8 f7 update: [12:12] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=380571 [12:12] Bug 380571: low, low, ---, Ngo Than, CLOSED DUPLICATE, System Tray in panel shows blank areas [12:12] most likely dups of long-standing. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=214222 [12:12] Bug 214222: medium, medium, ---, Matthias Clasen, CLOSED RAWHIDE, hidden GtkStatusIcon never reappears under KDE [12:13] gotta run guys, peace [12:13] my pet peave (haven't beenaa able to figure out at all): https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=243560 [12:13] Bug 243560: urgent, low, ---, Rex Dieter, ASSIGNED , kdm: xdmcp no log in [12:14] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=380581 [12:14] Bug 380581: medium, high, ---, Ngo Than, NEW , Enterpise headers block text, urls and email addresses from being selected [12:14] I think that's enough for now. :) [12:14] what about the logout issue. is it fixed already? [12:15] Late reply to: [12:15] i'd still recommend kyum or something else for casual users [12:15] svahl: afaik, the only logout issue I know is knetworkmanager, 0-day update fixes that. [12:15] Please no KYum! [12:15] KYum is unmaintained and very buggy. [12:15] So I can't recommend it at all. [12:15] The months-old bug of it clobbering the Livna repo config is still not fixed. [12:16] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-13 -- open discussion". [12:16] anything else to discuss today? [12:18] ok, it's late (and I need food), let's wrap it up then. [12:18] thanks everybody. [12:18] is it right that the next meeting will be at 1600 UTC again? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel [12:19] yes! [12:19] ok. noticed [12:19] kde sig meeting end.