Archive:Marketing/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080306

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<h1>IRC Log of Marketing Meeting - 06 March 2008</h1>
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<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">OK, looks like we've got a few folks around.  Shall we get started?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">word</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: fire away, yo</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">yay @ IRC being a collaborative notepad :P</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek goes to the agenda.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40"><meeting></td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks</a></td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Do we have Rahul?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">mether: You there?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*quaid saw mether around recently</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: yeah</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*JonRob has quit ("Lost terminal")</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">1.1.1.2: Target audience.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">I wrote some things which might not make sense</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*JonRob (n=jon@exhalls-5.ex.ac.uk) has joined #fedora-mktg</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Everyone take a look at what mether has.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">The Plan url: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/MarketingPlan">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/MarketingPlan</a></td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Take a look at section 1.1.1.2.  Any comments?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek agrees generally.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">maybe it needs widening slightly?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">missing "really cool sysadmins"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">seems to me like fedora's mission has widened a little</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">i don't see my name :P</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">beyond just the distribution</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">kidding</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">JonRob: feel free to expand it</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">how wide?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">what do you have in mind?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">well that's what i'm not sure about</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Heh.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">target audience should be specific and we shouldn't try to fit everything in IMO</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">but fedora as a community certainly appeals to people such as Creative Commons, and Fedora TV is an interesting direction for us to head</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">how about sysadmins?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">is perhaps the point i'm getting at</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Free and open source software developers => Free and open source software and content developers</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">So why is this interesting to Creative Commons?  Because they are interested in a derivative distribution, right?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">i kind of think of fedora as a distro for the people who want to start controlling their computer, instead of the computer controlling them</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">quaid: i think that covers it right</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">quaid: +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">just chuck "open content" in there, that's legit;</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">quaid: +1 works for me</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">why sys admins?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Hm.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Free and open source enthusiasts => Free and open source enthusiasts and systems maintainers?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">um, why?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">The broader the audience = the wider a net we must cast = the more work we all need to do.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">whats unique about Fedora for them?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">because it's a rock solid system for server deployments, people use it for that all over the place, and it's a natural step to RHEL sysadmin</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">mether: it's the upstream to RHEL :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek thinks that's covered by "open source enthusiasts".</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">that's what is unique</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">gregdek: i guess that's part of the trouble with spins that they can widen our audience continually, especially with the art spin etc</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">wouldnt a rock solid server deployment have a longer lifecycle?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Remember: the reason for coming up with a target audience is to better target the messaging.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">mether: meh, splitting hairs</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">how about cutting-edge technologists like NASA?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">i am not sure. i think server = longer life cycle for many people</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">For every entry in the "audience" category, we need to reconcile our plans to include that entry.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">s/enthusiasts/enthusiasts such as systems maintainers and leading edge technologists/?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">i think the server aspect depends on how heavily it'd get used and where</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">quaid: that would work</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">Well, I'm a sysadmin and run Fedora on my desktops/laptop as a way to see what's coming down the pike for my servers.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Secondary target, would it make sense to have "third-party developers" as they relate to the ISVs? Or is that an unnecessary artificial construct?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">like if i wanted to set up my own little in-house server for personal use, i wouldn't hesitate using fedora</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">stickster: isn't that covered in the second bullet</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">s/ISVs/IHVs and ISVs/</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">but if i wanted a dedicated server for a lot of people to use at once, i would probably aim for more long-term support</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">stickster:  the advantage of Fedora is that you dont have to be a third party</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">the wiki is too slow for me. anyone else, feel free to edit if they can</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*quaid edits</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">quaid++</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">It may be that we need to focus more narrowly in "primary audience" and allow more latitude in "secondary audience".</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">As in, "primary audience" are folks that we must have *awesome* messaging for.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">gregdek: that sounds like the right approach to me</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I'll buy that for $1.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">i think that's stated more or less too in the overviews and around and about</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">if you have to say only one thing about the target audience for Fedora, what would that be?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">+1 to narrow primary, allow room in secondary</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">And for me, our *primary* target is free and open source software developers.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Who else is clearly *primary*?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">enthusiasts?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Yeah.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I'm a little sad that we can't say we're for desktop users who aren't concerned with the MP3/DVD case.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*quaid has an edit window, watch out!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Specifically because I think enthusiasts -- and I mean true enthusiasts -- are where the developers come from.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: I think that's the definition of an "enthusiast."  :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">stickster: in reality, that probably is not our primary target</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: Sure, if you want to be logical.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">stickster: it is exactly the reason why I put desktop users as a secondary target btw. We dont support proprietary stuff</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I think every other case we listed is a great secondary target, and we could even add more.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">i don't think we should leave it solely at developers as primary audience</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">do we want to move any down from the primary list to secondary?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">right now I have it as is, with the additional language; nothing removed</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">JonRob: I agree.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I like developers and enthusiasts as primary.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">gregdek: +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">or perhaps "freedom lovers" :p</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">leave room for sysadmins, hopefully they fall under enthusiasts.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I also like "derivative creators" in primary, but in my mind that includes appliances.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Hm.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I could go either way on that.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">We spend a lot of time making sure all our build systems and other supporting structures are free just to make sure someone can do that.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">It may be primary in terms of strategy, but is it primary in terms of messaging?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I think so.  I *like* spending time in interviews pointing out that everything we build and do is free.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">should we specify</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">under secondary</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">gregdek: it must be, surely?! otherwise why bother spending time on something no body is going to hear about?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">that these are not the targets of messaging?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">A fair point.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">-1 to my idea, fwiw</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Heh.  :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">OK, so I'll buy "derivative creators" as a primary -- but that's not as... I dunno.  Smooth, I want to say.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Right.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Unless you're already firmly in our world, it probably isn't clear.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">A better way to say it is needed...</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">"Fedora feeders"?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">-1 jargon :-D</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Forkers.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">:-D</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">All those fooking forkers.  :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">Motherforkers?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Hrm.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">what the fork</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I would say "leave it for now," but I'm concerned if we do, we'll never revisit it, heh.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">How to say... "People who want to copy our awesome model."</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">well, those guys, whatever we call them, we agree they are #1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">Mixers and mashers</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">"spiners"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser: aha!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">FOSS remixers</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">FOSS remixers.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I like that.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">*jinx</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">stickster, "excellent for imitation"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">sounding like a Dead show here with spinners, mashers ...</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">THE BROWN ACID IS BAD.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*quaid fixes that one</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">we're all golden gods?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">This makes it easy -- "Free and open source enthusiasts, developers, and remixers."</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Me likey Big Time.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">and sysadmins.  :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">1. Simplify.  2. Amplify.  :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">wakawakawakawaka*BEAT BEAT*</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">OK, I think we've licked target audience.  Shall we move on?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">1.1.2 -- Brand Positioning.  That's me!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Take a look, and let's have comments.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">hey that worked, just saved it with those changes, pulling all the others under the one audience</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: <a href="http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9813113-39.html">http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9813113-39.html</a></td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: talks about a all purpose linux foundation. sounds grander than derivative distributions?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*quaid needs to pass the edit baton</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">have to leave in ~10 minutes</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Hm.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Who wants the edit baton?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">mether: Maybe.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Yikes, the "foundation" terminology overload is a little daunting.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">gregdek: Pick me</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser++</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">jmbuser: A winner is you!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: I don't know if I can add to 1.1.2</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">It's so... beautiful...</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I'm perfect, as always!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">User Experience. Fedora offers a user experience that is unsurpassed by</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Surely someone has something ribald to say.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">that sentence is incomplete</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Except "cam" ==> "can" in point 3.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">gregdek: when you've laid down for FLOSS for so long, it just rolls of your tongue?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">See? mether's paying attention.  Stickster is just grab-assing.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Sorry, I was only looking at the Points of Difference section.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: Is it Friday already?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">Fedora is the responsible elder brother of the free software world</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">not sure that is a good analogy</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">s/brother/sibling/ ?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">tomorrow paul</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">umm what about the friends bit: sounds a little like we're exlcuding people who don't agree with us</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I'll leave it up for debate, but I like it lots.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">maybe we could emphasise convincing people a little more :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">Friends. We care about the people around us who care about the things that we care about.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">we care that they care enough to convince other people?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">I care about my friend even though he cares about completely different things</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser going into edit mode</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Fedora: we're not brown</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Then "friends" is the wrong word.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">tw2113: heh :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">"We care about the people around us, even if they're not paying attention."</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">No, wait, that's wrong.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">no i think it's good</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">My opinion: we care about the mission, and we care *a lot* about supporting other people who also care about our mission.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster will have to learn not to joke without signifying.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Because to be honest, I don't care all that much about the Windows user who doesn't give a toss about free software.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">so lets say</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">But I care *deeply* about the folks -- my friends -- who sacrifice their time and energies to make free software better.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Fedora -- the defensive driver of FOSS.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">gregdek: surely we need to let them understand why we care though?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">or are we positioning ourselves more as a solid foundation for those who actually want to take the fight forwards?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">Foundation for freedom?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">JonRob: +1 to that last bit.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Foundation For Freedom.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser did a save</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Yeah, we need another F.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">:)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I'm down with that.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">that could be a slogan. we need one</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">we're still going to need to care about people who don't understand.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">"The Future, First" -- that's my slogan.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">people ask at the Fedora booth, why they should are, or why what we do is good.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">s/are/care/</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Back to these points -- "Friends: We care about the people around us, especially those who are devoted to freedom"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">Foundation For Software Freedom if you want to be more specific</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Or Content Freedom.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">content freedom?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">right</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Hey, we're the FSF!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">yes, i feel we should push free culture as a whole rather than just free software</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster falls over..</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">The Foundation for Software Freedom!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">gregdek: i think we should use it, just to see the reactions!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">"Who's that over there?"  "He's the Free Software Foundation."  "SPLITTER!"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">:-D</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek giggles helplessly.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">maybe "First" can be "Future"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: Chair, you lout! Chair!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">:)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">Foundation of Freedom Fighters For Your Future</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">FFFFF</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">All right.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">problem I see with future, first is that it doesnt say anything about what we do</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Is the last edit saved yet?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">F5</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">but IMO, we need a good slogan anyway</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">what exactly?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">I still like Infinity Freedom Voice</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Well, let's table the Slogan idea for right now.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">yeah</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">lets discuss that later</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Let's make sure that we've got the elements of the Brand Essence correct.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">"on list"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: And the Parity Points issue.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">"Freedom / Friends / Features / First".</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Is that sufficient or not?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">sufficient++</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I really kind of like the idea of adding Foundation, now that it's been mentioned.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I like foundation here too.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">F5 is much better than F4 anyway</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">More destructive.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">(being, you know, not TM'd by Marvel)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Oh, wait.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Especially now that we've noted that remixers are a core target audience.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">Framework instead of foundation?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Hm.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser: Too jargon-y.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Yeah.  That.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">i think we need to tune the definition of whom we call friends.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">:-(</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">did we decide on that?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">also People interested in security enhancements like SELinux. Either development or consumption</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">is that a core audience?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">quaid</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #407a40">I tucked it under enthusiasts</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Foundation = the very strong base.  Framework = tinkertoys.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">No.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">Freedom. Fedora is completely committed to the growth of free software in a way that no other operating system cam match.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Wait...</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">should that be stated less in terms of competition?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">we better not forget that we're going to have to explain these things to people</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">No, it's a point of difference</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek looks back at the "primary target" section.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Didn't we agree to narrow it a lot more than that?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">why is fedora more capable of growing free software?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser adding Foundation?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">mether: We should be talking in Points of Difference about where Fedora stands out from other FOSS platforms.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">just as an eg</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">not a quesion that needs answering now</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: primary target == "FOSS enthusiasts, developers, and remixers" I thought.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">But that may be my ego speaking.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: I thought so too.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">jmbuser +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">jmbuser: yeah</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">jmbuser: can you re-edit the "target audience primary market" thing, and also add Foundation?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser jumps into edit mode</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">...slowly</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: I thought Foundation was to be added to 1.1.2 under "Core Brand Essence"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">[14:35]  <zodbot> Announcement from my owner (mmcgrath): We've had a burp on one of our servers, some web services (wiki) and koji will be down for a moment.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">might be why it's slow</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Sigh.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">tw2113: just saw a whloe load of "host down" announcements - was scary!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">it is not even accessible for me now</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Well.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">server is being rebooted.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">one of the xen hosts.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Looks like our meeting might be abended -- or at least delayed a bit.  :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">lets continue discussing what we need to do</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Apparently you guys have not hugged the sysadmins enough today.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">we thought that was your job Paul</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">part of being the leader and whatnot</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">stickster: take the blame take the blame</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I'm a hugger.  Ask anyone.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">You're right!  [sobs violently]   I DIDN'T HUG TODAY!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">OK.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Points of Parity / Points of Difference?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Any questions / concerns there?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Parity == equality, yes?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Yes.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: i cant see it</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: paste it?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">So why does our point there basically say "Best user experience"?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser will update when possible</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Because in my mind, that's stating a differentiator</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*quaid bails for kiddle pickup and dispersal</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">== "none better".  <> "best".</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Bye quaid.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: Wellll... OK.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">what do we do with the marketing plan once we have it. Are Red Hat marketing folks helping us after this?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">User Experience. Fedora offers a user experience that is unsurpassed.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">:)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">mether: Certainly they will.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I was hoping joadams would be here, but he's unavailable, it seems.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">He'll be back around, though.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser achieves edit mode</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Once we actually nail our message, they'll be able to help a lot with strategy and tactics.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: OK, I see -- basically "as good or better than anything you've tried."</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: Right.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Where can we extend that definition?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">...unclear.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">*Without getting too geeky!* --> Hardware support.  Installed a driver lately?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Hm, nice.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">The "Just Works" phenomenon</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Yeah.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">We've got to tread carefully there, though.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">are you talking about proprietary drivers there?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">No, muddles the message.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Because if the hardware is goofy, "Just Works" isn't actually true.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">"Have you hugged your 'just works' OS yet?"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">This is where the messaging gets difficult.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I don't think so.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">I am not sure our message of free software only works well with the idea of</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">just works</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">For most hardware on some other O/S'es you have to go through a very complicated dance just to make anything work.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*geroldka (n=Gerold@fedora/geroldka) has left #fedora-mktg ("Leaving")</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Here, even if it's not whiz-bango, it will likely work to an acceptable degree.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">does this not fall under messaging rather than brand essence?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">But the message fails in some very basic cases.  Transferring video, for instance.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">(positioning even)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser made changes</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">The essence == plugging things in just works.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">We want to say "the best of free software".  We cannot honestly say "just works".</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: right. I think we cant honestly advertise just works as an idea for Fedora</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">The "plugging things in" simplifies the case.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">iWolf</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4d4d93">gregdek: +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: You'll thank us for this later when someone says "bullshit just works, my video camera is totally broken."  :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster goes back to his ivory tower.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">lol</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Buy better shit!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">So what did we come up with as our "answer"?  Because I'm not sure.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">:-D</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">so that's where the leader's office is</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">He directs his armies with a laser pen.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">(Laser pen: the secret to catherding.)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Can we talk about parity with upstream here without referring to upstream?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*tw2113 apologizes for being all jokes and hardly contributing seriously</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I.e., new like they are?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: That's kind of what I'm trying to do, yeah.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">"As new or newer"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">"Just as GNOME-y as they are!"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">"If not GNOME-y-er!"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">lol</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser got 502 error - going back in</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Let me put it this way:</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Yeah, wiki's back up if anyone cares to read along again.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">What message are we ready to shout repeatedly at an event?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">best of free software is a message I am very comfortable with</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">what about the messages on Mairin's generic posters?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving")</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">best of free software and open content could be possible</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Person A says "Ubuntu is better".  Fedora defender says "show me how Ubuntu is 'better', and I'll show you a bad compromise that hurts free software".</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">That's my standard line.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">JonRob: 1. I love Mairin's posters.  2. We don't want to harness ourselves to a three-word slogan that didn't get dissected in this kind of plan</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">JonRob: We can definitely include them, and fit them in properly though</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek looks at the clock.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">onward!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Do we want to table this one and move on?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: np, was just a thought as it seemed like thye were ready made</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">What do we think of the "Brand Personality"?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">i'll 2nd a table</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: I think we run a risk of tabling too much</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">JonRob: are you editing</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mether: no</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: We're going to have to come back and back over this ground anyway.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Fair enough, then</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">JonRob: ok. so I will</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">"Brand Personality" -- to me, this means a personification of what the person who loves our brand is like.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">And I wrote my take on that.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Nerd Like Me.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">always wears his button up shirt open</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">is a fan of hats</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Heh.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser did the edits - please review</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Fun-loving, but knows when to say when.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">loves to tinker</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Gives up the seat to elderly and pregnant women.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">wants free access to anywhere he goes?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">gregdek: I like the edler brother imagery</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Is willing to suffer discomfort for the challenge of making something better.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">s /edler /elder /</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Stoic.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">But not too awful stoic.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">Makes the tough calls</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Stoic, but really wordy.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">the big brother that won't beat you up for playing for the other team, but will try to pursuade you over</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">A good communist like you see in old Russian posters.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: XX FAIL</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">:)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">eyes upward</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">haha</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Eyes upward!  Exactly!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">tw2113: would be such an awesome poster!!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">sleeve rolled up with a wrench in one hand</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">"They Had Their Eyes on Heaven."</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Rosie the Riveter!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I'm telling you.  Those communists knew their propaganda.  Social realism.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">oh that could be an awesome poster</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">"They had their eyes on the infinite abyss"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">That sounds... scary</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">what's all this "had"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">has :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">have*</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">or have yes lol</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">gazing on infinity</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">anyway...where is this heading exactly?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">"With Fedora, the terrorists haven't won"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">We're not being funny, we're really trying to figure out a personality.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Where this is going:</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Shadowman is a personality, but he personifies Red Hat, for example.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Well, what stickster said.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">We're looking for the personification of our brand.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster gives back the thunda</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Just like Shadowman has become the personification of the Red Hat brand.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">ok cool - just like to keep my head straight :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">aw carpy! i have to leave soon</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Yeah, we're running up on our hour.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Spartacus.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I AM SPARTACUS!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">If you want the movie personification of Fedora, that's it.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Spartacus.  Braveheart.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">This Is Fedora</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">Gladiator</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a"><a href="http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=rosie+the+riveter&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1">http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=rosie+the+riveter&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1</a></td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Ben Hur.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Well, except William Wallace slept with someone else's wife, which is arguably not kosher.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">i really think awesome stuff could be done with this</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">(in the movie, no idea about IRL)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">and because it's a well known image would have a lot of impact</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: Killjoy.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: lol</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">OK...</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">MS has a real heroes campaign going on - just to let you know</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">...so let's think more about this and maybe comment on-list.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">i'm thinking of an audio clip for a prowrestler that i could maybe make into something about Fedora</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">:)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">i'll check it out later</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser: So did Hitler, I think.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">That leaves Strategy and Tactics, which we haven't even touched yet, and we're at the end of our hour.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster can keep going but is sensitive to others' valuable time.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek can keep going for another 1/2hr, for those who can join us.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">i'm good for 10 more mins</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser is fine with that</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*iWolf is still here</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">i'm good for as long as it takes to get dressed for work</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">tw2113: the secret is layers</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Do we want to dig into S+T?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: onward!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">i'll just read the minutes for what i miss</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">S+T!  jonrob?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">yeah sure let's do it</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Warning: this is huge and will take multiple meetings.  :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">right.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">(In fact, will likely be the heart of this group does, once we've established the basics.)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Any comments on what we've got so far?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Maybe it makes more sense, then, to make sure we've nailed down the foregoing parts.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Hm.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Maybe.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*iWolf made  comments on the list</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Since we'll live in that section for{ever, longer}.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: my only question is what of the short/medium terms</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">(oops... /me must wander afk, brb...)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">this document aims to make a difference long-term</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">but i think we really need to make improvements in the short term too</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">o noez! we had a leeder but dey eated him.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">what is working and what is not working in whatever we have tried so far</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">lets get to that</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mether: +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">i see some articles getting diggs and some just getting lost in the interviews we make for example</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Things which work:  * Our release schedule.  (predictability)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">tw2113</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #818144">talk to you all later</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">but interviews in general are a good strategy</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">tw2113: bye :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">mether: Notice that the one article which concerned the larger world (Jack + NASA) got a HUGE uptake on digg.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">since it keeps us in the news and highlights our contributions. makes our contributors proud</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">tw2113: bye</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: true</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">I think we need to strive for relevance beyond just the FOSS community.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">NASA article most dugg Fedora article of all time</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">wikipedia is a big Fedora user. Have we approached them?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">mether: Great idea!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mether: i had no idea</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">but it's a damn good idea</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">+1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Google is too, but somehow I think we may not get as much traction there ;-)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">Google has a brown tint ltely</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">JonRob: <a href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers">http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_servers</a></td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">s / ltely /lately /</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">but then the question remains, what medium do we use?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser: ?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">there are two things to be done</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">find out the big users and promote that. figure out how to retain them and solve their issues</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">(while remaining true to our mission)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">it will help us understand out strong points too</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser refers to recent hostings of other distro's conferences</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">mether: +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Wow, I walk away and you guys start a *real* meeting.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser: They've also funded at least one FUDCon that I know of.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">s/funded/funded in part/</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">I am pretty sure a lot of RHEL users use Fedora in parallel</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">thats where Red Hat marketing can help</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">mether: What's the second thing?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">stickster: How come I never heard about it?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">Or was that it?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">stickster: that was it</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">yeah, i was about to ask if RedHat could help us find out who's using Fedora</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">ok</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">jmbuser: fudcon boston 2007 - they were one of the sponsors</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">It may or may not be possible for some or all of them to tell us as a matter of competitive strategery</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">If you do or don't ask me, the above notwithstanding</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">sure. so let's say we talk to the ones that are willing to talk to us</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">My point is that Ubuntu has the perception of being really tight with Google, which lets them bask in Google's reflected glory</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">eof</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">we dont need to pick a fight on that account to win</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">jmbuser: Good.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Because it's time for us to associate with wikia.  :)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster thought that was all hoax anyway.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">But yeah, who cares?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster likes the tie in between wikia, distributed web crawling, and the new Fedora @Home idea.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Ding ding ding.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">There's gonna be a *ton* of cool stuff we can do with that.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">In fact, and I think we may be moving more into board-level strategy here...</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">yeah. I think we got the message of innovation out there with atleast a few different projects</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">smolt is one</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">SELinux is another</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">spins</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">We should keep promoting transifex too. Fedora@home could be the next big thing</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">pulseaudio</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster interjects once again that what sells papers is Relevance to the Common Man. Even on the interwebz.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">...a comprehensive agreement with Jimbo Wales to strengthen the Fedora/Wikia branding, including using Wikia as our default search in Firefox/Iceweasel/whatever, would make a *HUGE* statement about what we *really* think about Google.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">along with Virtualization</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">gregdek: +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">gregdek +1</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">great association</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">so, as a follow up, who wants to get in touch with the wikia people?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I will.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: how does that match with the agreement with Google that is ongoing now?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Actually, I'll ask Jack to.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">What agreement?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">mether: That agreement is dead.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">We agree... to disagree.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">there has been one under discussion for a long while</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">afaik</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">The one at the board level?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">yes</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">The one I was spearheading?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">lol</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: YES</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">The one that I killed earlier this week because Google lawyers are intractable?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">That one?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">:)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster has paroxysms</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">you never informed us. so...</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">...</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">:-(</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I sent it to the board.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">anyway, so lets talk to wikia then</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Sorry, I should have sent it out more broadly.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: should I resend that note to f-a-l?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">i think it also sends a strong singal of us leading innvoation, as was done with the wifi drivers etc too</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: I don't know... it was all theoretical as far as I could see -- was there actual Board work on this pre-February?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">gregdek: i think you should announce the agreement with wikia asap.</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek hrms.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">It would be great if we had one first.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">lol</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Well, people who read the irc logs will know.  :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">thats the hint</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*gregdek shrugs.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">swymamwys.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">anyway, move on</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I don't think anyone outside of a few people will care that "the Fedora deal with Google that wasn't coming through still isn't coming through."</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">disco.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">But I think *a ton* of people will care if we can make a deal with Wikia.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Therefore, I will work on Jimbo.  sok?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">sure</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">gregdek: This we should definitely post on f-a-b.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">stickster: It may involve breaking partnership with Mozilla, since helping them maintain their deal with Google seems to be part of our deal to use the Firefox name.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">So I think we can definitely tie this in to S&T -- users --> contributors in Fedora-land.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">(Sorry, I'll take this offline.(</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">np</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">i think i'm about done with this for the evening</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">(lol sorry, that sounded way more negative than i meant - been a rough day here!)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Ha!</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser makes last call for wiki edit </td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I think we've had a great meeting, but I think it's breaking up.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">We did in fact hit some S&T heer.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">*here</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">My constant reiteration is going to be "relevance."  Someone said to me the other day, with regard to the Fedora @Home MRG thing, "We could help SETI!"</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">My response was basically, "Screw that, we could help kids with cancer."</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: is very true</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">After which I realized, "We could do both," was right.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">anyhow all,</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">But one of those will "sell papers."  Three guesses which!</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">nice to speak to everyone as always</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">are we doing this same time next week? i might not be here actually, going home for easter :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I would like to, yes.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Even if not everyone shows.  I think consistent meeting times are incredibly important.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">ok - good by me</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser will publish log</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">JonRob</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #8c4a4a">thanks all, and best wishes :)</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">yep</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*JonRob has quit ("Lost terminal")</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">everybody else</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">refresh once the marketing plan page</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">and see if there is something we disagree with</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">since  a number of edits have been made</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">did everyone leave?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">Heh.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">gregdek</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #854685">I did.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">mether: what happened to FOSS mixers? seems to be deleted from your last save</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">nah</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">it is still there</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser: Are you still editing?</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">mether got the last edit in - I got 502 error :-)</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*stickster fixes the market w/hubris.</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">jmbuser</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #4b904b">Is anyone calling the meeting?</td></tr>
<tr><td class="action" colspan="3">*jmbuser needs to know where to end log</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">mether</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #488888">you can end when jonrob left</td></tr>
<tr><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">stickster</th><td class="text" colspan="2" style="color: #42427e"></meeting></td></tr>
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