Meeting of 2006-12-28
*** Time shown in EST
15:00 <@mmcgrath> Allrighty, who's here?
15:01 * mmcgrath notes there's a meeting today though it might be very short depending on who's here.
15:01 < CyberGabber> Im listening...
15:01 < symerian> listening ...
15:02 < symerian> just the 3 of us ?
15:02 <@mmcgrath> thats good, doesn't look like too many people are talking though.
15:02 <@mmcgrath> Yeah, most are probably still recovering from the holidays.
15:03 -!- open_source_nut [n=open_sou@unaffiliated/opensourcenut/x-000001] has joined #fedora-admin
15:03 < CyberGabber> Just started with RH fedora5...Bought this week the book 'A pratical guide to RedHat linux' (incl Fedora Core5 DVD)
15:03 < symerian> welcome aboard CyberGabber ;)
15:04 < symerian> well errr, i'm myself new here too, as i just sent my introduction email today ;)
15:04 * dgilmore is here
15:04 <@mmcgrath> dgilmore: yo
15:04 <@mmcgrath> symerian: I saw that.
15:04 * kim0 is here too
15:05 <@mmcgrath> well lets keep this one short then.
15:05 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-admin to: Short meeting in progress.
15:05 < dgilmore> legacy buildsys i need to pull out :(
15:05 <@mmcgrath> dgilmore: anything to report on your end from EPEL or other things?
15:05 * abadger1999 is here
15:05 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i pinged notting again on the mirrors
15:05 < dgilmore> i need to bug jeremey about bugzilla
15:05 <@mmcgrath> I saw that, I wonder if there's hangup beyond people just being busy.
15:06 < dgilmore> i hope not
15:06 < dgilmore> I need to do up a lits of all the pieces we need in place
15:06 <@mmcgrath> for the new guys we'll loosely follow this today - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Schedule
15:07 <@mmcgrath> abadger1999: I saw you have a new package scheme presented, how is all of that going?
15:07 <@mmcgrath> Have people been responsive?
15:07 < abadger1999> I haven't had any responses on this one.
15:07 < abadger1999> I was hoping Karel would chime in again as he had some good ideas last time.
15:07 < dgilmore> abadger1999: its on my list of things to do
15:07 < abadger1999> I'm putting it down to the holidays and will probably resend after New Years.
15:08 < abadger1999> I'm updating the owners.list importer now
15:08 <@mmcgrath> Yeah, I've found it especially difficult to get comments from people on things.
15:08 < abadger1999> And will start on the TurboGears front end afterwards.
15:08 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: I think it's because you become the expert after you take the first step of getting started on it :-)
15:09 < dgilmore> abadger1999: possibly
15:09 <@mmcgrath> heh, yeah that sounds familiar.
15:09 < dgilmore> me wants to do alot more
15:09 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: Did you talk to nman about having the web/doc people do some TG templates?
15:10 < dgilmore> builders will stop doing FC-3 and FC-4 on monday
15:10 <@mmcgrath> abadger1999: not yet but I'm working on it
15:10 <@mmcgrath> dgilmore :-(
15:10 <@mmcgrath> solong FC3 and FC4
15:10 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i was the most vocal person wanting them kept
15:10 <@mmcgrath> abadger1999: I'll need it soon, the hardware profiler is coming along pretty quickly
15:10 <@mmcgrath> http://publictest4.fedora.redhat.com/raw
15:10 < abadger1999> k. I'll be ready to start working with them soon as well.
15:11 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-admin to: Configuration managemet
15:11 < dgilmore> people are passionate about this one
15:11 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-admin to: Configuration Management
15:12 <@mmcgrath> Yes, one thing we've been getting LOTS of feedback from is config management.
15:12 <@mmcgrath> what are your guys opinions so far? I'm sitting back and letting people get everything out in the open for now.
15:12 < abadger1999> Seems like configuration management is hard and people really latch onto the solution that eventually ended their pain.
15:12 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: im doing pretty much the same thing right now
15:13 < symerian> well
15:13 < symerian> may i ?
15:13 <@mmcgrath> symerian: of course
15:13 < dgilmore> i need to implement something here and i think ill end up using what gets put in place in Fedora
15:13 < kim0> why dont we define features we need first, then see which tool can achieve them
15:13 < symerian> i'm currently working on something to manage configuration off all my servers
15:13 < symerian> indeed kim0 , exactly where i was going ;)
15:13 <@mmcgrath> kim0: we need to but so far no one's actually sat down to send the emails and ask the questions to put the wiki page together.
15:14 < abadger1999> I talked with lutter for a while the other day and one thing I walked away with is the need to plan ahead.
15:15 < symerian> first of all let's try to list features needed ;)
15:15 < abadger1999> We may have <30 machines right now, but with our plans to do a lot of things in Xen guests we could double that by the end of the year.
15:15 < abadger1999> (2007)
15:15 <@mmcgrath> abadger1999: I could see it tripling
15:15 * mmcgrath shutters
15:15 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: i set it at least tripple
15:15 < kim0> why would we need 90 machines :)
15:16 < abadger1999> mmcgrath: Me too. At least.
15:16 < dgilmore> kim0: not machines but hosts
15:16 < symerian> i put on eye on the threads mmcgrath advises me to look at
15:16 <@mmcgrath> kim0: well if hosting takes off, that alone is going to require some serious infrastructure.
15:16 < kim0> ahh...
15:16 <@mmcgrath> symerian: if you'd like to get a survey or set of specific questions together to send to the list and start creating a requirements page for the wiki
15:16 <@mmcgrath> Not to mention just general growth.
15:16 < dgilmore> kim0: and things like each VCS its own xen guest
15:17 < symerian> mmcgrath: got it ;)
15:17 <@mmcgrath> k, we'll move on from there for now
15:17 < dgilmore> we will also have half as many packages in extras that we have now again
15:17 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-admin to: Metrics
15:18 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-admin to: Metrics + hardware reporting tool
15:18 <@mmcgrath> So the hardware reporting tool is coming along, if you're brave try running this:
15:18 <@mmcgrath> wget -qO- http://mmcgrath.net/~mmcgrath/rhn/test.sh | sh
15:19 <@mmcgrath> it may or may not fail, who knows. But soon I'll be commiting that code and opening it up to everyone to contribute to, it could be a great tool for us.
15:19 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: is that different from a week ago?
15:19 <@mmcgrath> dgilmore: yes
15:19 < dgilmore> mmcgrath: ok
15:19 <@mmcgrath> it actually sends the profile to a database that can be viewed at - http://publictest4.fedora.redhat.com/raw
15:19 < dgilmore> :D
15:19 * kim0 pulls the sword and runs the tool
15:20 * symerian too
15:20 <@mmcgrath> Though I've been getting dbus errors on some dists right now that I didn't used to get. I'm looking into it.
15:20 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-admin to: Caching Proxies
15:20 <@mmcgrath> kim0: Whats the word, now that we've run the tests, where do we go from here?
15:21 < kim0> not sure about this one ...
15:21 < kim0> caching didnt seem too useful at least for now
15:21 <@mmcgrath> Do you think when the new version of Moin comes out it will be more useful?
15:21 < kim0> That's the info we got from Moin devs ..
15:22 < kim0> Dont know whether it could be more useful
15:22 <@mmcgrath> any estimate as to when it will be ready?
15:22 < kim0> to deploy multi parallel app serves though
15:23 < kim0> I will try to get release date infomation
15:23 < symerian> hum seems nothing has been sent to the database for me :(
15:23 < kim0> me too
15:23 <@mmcgrath> k, we'll wait to hear from you and paulo's recomendation before moving foward.
15:23 <@mmcgrath> Yeah, thats because the dbus error resulted in a null bogomips number and I haven't written anything to account for that so it bombs :-)
15:24 < symerian> i see ;)
15:24 * mmcgrath is still working on it :-D
15:24 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-admin to: FI Noc
15:24 < kim0> mmcgrath: not sure if I'm best to decide where to go from here!
15:24 <@mmcgrath> Just a heads up, I'm putting together some framework for a public and private noc so everyone can log in and see the status of our networks.
15:25 < kim0> was there some thread about this noc thing ?
15:25 <@mmcgrath> it will include a lot of stuff including nagios, cacti, last commit, commits in the last 24 hours, etc.
15:25 < symerian> mmcgrath: sounds cool ;)
15:25 < abadger1999> That will be good.
15:25 < kim0> that does sound cool
15:25 <@mmcgrath> kim0: not yet, I wanted to get the frameworks ready so we could just run with it when we start going.
15:25 <@mmcgrath> I hate announcing stuff, getting everyone on board, and then having to wait for months before anyone can do anything :-D
15:25 < kim0> noc = network operation center?
15:25 <@mmcgrath> kim0: yeah
15:25 < symerian> kim0: indeed
15:26 <@mmcgrath> Ok, so thats all I've got
15:26 -!- mmcgrath changed the topic of #fedora-admin to: Open floor
15:26 <@mmcgrath> Anyone have anything else to discuss?
15:26 < symerian> just one question
15:26 <@mmcgrath> symerian: shoot
15:27 < symerian> as i am working on a deployement tool wich may deploy linux either windows
15:27 < symerian> i would probably be building rpm's of tools like unattended
15:27 < symerian> if it comes the right way, where can i share them ?
15:28 < kim0> extras ?
15:28 <@mmcgrath> symerian: good question, sounds like a great candidate for the hosting project but its not currently live.
15:28 <@mmcgrath> Your best bet for now is to use sourceforge :-/
15:29 < symerian> got it ;)
15:29 < dgilmore> i just installed sqlgrey on smtp
15:29 < dgilmore> need to configure it yet
15:29 <@mmcgrath> dgilmore: awesome
15:30 < dgilmore> we really need to get it finished
15:30 <@mmcgrath> yeah, OTRS is a mess right now :-(
15:30 <@mmcgrath> alrighty, if thats all everyone has we'll end the meeting in 30
15:30 <@mmcgrath> 20
15:30 < kim0> one thing ..
15:30 < kim0> decision making ..
15:30 <@mmcgrath> kim0: go ahead
15:31 < kim0> like you were asking where to go about web caching
15:31 < kim0> having worked on the subject .. I cant claim to be an expert ..
15:31 <@mmcgrath> yes, where to go to make sure the wiki doesn't fail during the next release
15:31 <@mmcgrath> no worries, we have plenty of time to come up with a solution
15:32 < kim0> you started previously having officers, right ... which were leading teams ? where did that go
15:32 <@mmcgrath> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Officers
15:32 < kim0> yeah .. but I guess it's not really active
15:33 < dgilmore> kim0: its active
15:33 <@mmcgrath> Its active.
15:33 < abadger1999> kim0: What would you like to see happen?
15:33 <@mmcgrath> kim0: whats your concern?
15:34 < kim0> my concern is that when we're making a decision like how to strucure our web servers (what to cache & such ..)
15:34 < kim0> should this decision just be taken in the open ..
15:34 < kim0> or should an officer lead taking such decisions
15:34 <@mmcgrath> It will be, we're still getting information.
15:34 < kim0> with other people contributing
15:34 < dgilmore> kim0: it should be made in the open
15:34 < kim0> ok .. that makes sense ..
15:35 <@mmcgrath> It'll be way out in the open. And will probably be whatever you and Paulo decide is best for us.
15:35 < abadger1999> IMHO officers should be more facilitators rather than decision makers.
15:35 <@mmcgrath> After discussion of course.
15:35 <@mmcgrath> abadger1999: +1 as well as sponsors
15:35 < dgilmore> abadger1999: i agree
15:36 < kim0> ok .. let's see how this goes
15:36 <@mmcgrath> :-)
15:36 <@mmcgrath> ok, anyone have anything else?
15:36 < dgilmore> kim0: i dont claim to be an expert in very much
15:36 < kim0> yeah .. I am not a web servers expert
15:36 < dgilmore> i rely on smarter people around me for lots of advice
15:36 < kim0> and I dont wanna be making such decisions :)
15:37 < kim0> that's basically it
15:37 < kim0> I enjoy working on it ... that's all
15:37 < dgilmore> kim0: we appreciate that you are
15:37 < kim0> :)
15:37 <@mmcgrath> kim0: hah, no worries. I'm sure we'll be just fine :-)
15:38 <@mmcgrath> alrighty, with that I'm going to call a meeting end ------------------- END --------------------