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*Topic for #fedora-docs set by quaid at Thu Feb 22 19:52:09 2007<a href="#t17:55:01" class="time">17:55</a>
quaidI want to discuss it with you and stickster in a few, let me get some coffee and oatmeal started :D<a href="#t17:55:05" class="time">17:55</a>
jmbuserGreetings and Salutations<a href="#t17:55:13" class="time">17:55</a>
jmbuserFOSDEM crowd there?<a href="#t17:55:35" class="time">17:55</a>
coufjmbuser: sure<a href="#t17:55:42" class="time">17:55</a>
jmbusercouf: hi<a href="#t17:55:54" class="time">17:55</a>
jmbuserglezos_fosdem: hi<a href="#t17:56:13" class="time">17:56</a>
coufow right I should send a mail aswell<a href="#t17:57:06" class="time">17:57</a>
sticksterquaid: Well, for someone who goes to bed about 2am, you do pretty well IMHO<a href="#t17:57:28" class="time">17:57</a>
coufheh lol<a href="#t18:00:42" class="time">18:00</a>
coufokay folks, talk's over, we're getting ready here<a href="#t18:01:15" class="time">18:01</a>
glezos_fosdemquaid, sure. what's on your mind about PDF?<a href="#t18:02:55" class="time">18:02</a>
coufping all<a href="#t18:05:27" class="time">18:05</a>
jmbusercouf: pong<a href="#t18:05:39" class="time">18:05</a>
coufwe're ready here<a href="#t18:05:42" class="time">18:05</a>
glezos_fosdemstickster, any pointers on where to start with couf for the DUG to docbook process?<a href="#t18:08:15" class="time">18:08</a>
sticksterglezos_fosdem: You'll want to work on a per-chapter/page basis<a href="#t18:08:35" class="time">18:08</a>
glezos_fosdemok<a href="#t18:08:46" class="time">18:08</a>
*glezos_fosdem is now known as glezos<a href="#t18:08:47" class="time">18:08</a>
glezosok<a href="#t18:08:57" class="time">18:08</a>
glezosstickster, so we just export from the page?<a href="#t18:10:51" class="time">18:10</a>
glezos\<a href="#t18:10:53" class="time">18:10</a>
sticksterI just added a directory structure in CVS for them -- desktop-user-guide/FC-6/en_US/ is where you can put the XML files<a href="#t18:11:13" class="time">18:11</a>
sticksterYes, you can just export from the page.  Be aware that they won't come out perfectly, but we can fix that XML stuff after it's in CVS<a href="#t18:11:27" class="time">18:11</a>
sticksterFor each page, name it something that makes sense, like the "chapter" title.  Don't use "dug-" or anything at the beginning, it's unnecessary.  For example, you could call one chapter "multimedia.xml"<a href="#t18:11:58" class="time">18:11</a>
sticksterSet your CVSROOT appropriately as detailed in our CVS guidance, and then you can "cvs co desktop-user-guide"<a href="#t18:12:44" class="time">18:12</a>
sticksterIt'll just be some empty directories for now<a href="#t18:12:53" class="time">18:12</a>
coufright<a href="#t18:12:58" class="time">18:12</a>
coufso right now we're just exporting to docbook and naming the files<a href="#t18:14:10" class="time">18:14</a>
sticksterYup<a href="#t18:14:16" class="time">18:14</a>
coufdo we need to export the toc aswell?<a href="#t18:14:21" class="time">18:14</a>
stickstercouf: No, that part will be taken care of in rendering the DocBook to HTML or other formats<a href="#t18:14:36" class="time">18:14</a>
sticksterJust export each of the chapter pages individually<a href="#t18:14:48" class="time">18:14</a>
glezosstickster, any automatic way to do that?<a href="#t18:15:27" class="time">18:15</a>
coufokay<a href="#t18:15:31" class="time">18:15</a>
sticksteri.e. Introduction, Login, tour...<a href="#t18:15:31" class="time">18:15</a>
glezosBTW, I tried finding a guy from the KDE Docs team here to ask him about the PDF creation,  but with no luck,<a href="#t18:16:18" class="time">18:16</a>
glezosstickster, which Makefile should we use as a base?<a href="#t18:16:47" class="time">18:16</a>
sticksterglezos: You could adapt the beatconvert script in the release-notes module, but it would take some (admittedly light) Python wrangling<a href="#t18:16:49" class="time">18:16</a>
glezosstickster, maybe we should move that script to docs-common?<a href="#t18:17:08" class="time">18:17</a>
sticksterglezos: You can use the one in documentation-guide<a href="#t18:17:36" class="time">18:17</a>
sticksterglezos: Not yet.  It's tightly tailored to the relnotes.<a href="#t18:17:45" class="time">18:17</a>
glezosok<a href="#t18:17:59" class="time">18:17</a>
sticksterone thing at a time :-)<a href="#t18:18:03" class="time">18:18</a>
glezosyup<a href="#t18:18:06" class="time">18:18</a>
glezosjust asking<a href="#t18:18:10" class="time">18:18</a>
sticksterEventually I can see it being useful -- but eventually I could also see it being obsolete if ReST works better for our Drafts<a href="#t18:18:34" class="time">18:18</a>
*quaid continues the PDF intervweaving while he checks out the new module<a href="#t18:18:39" class="time">18:18</a>
sticksterglezos: Oh, wait... You know, that script is actually even *less* useful than I was thinking<a href="#t18:19:04" class="time">18:19</a>
sticksterIt really was to work *around* the problem of not having docbook conversion on our "real" wiki!<a href="#t18:19:17" class="time">18:19</a>
sticksterSo it's actually quite obsolete right now :-D<a href="#t18:19:27" class="time">18:19</a>
quaidyeah, time to automate would be longer than by hand, with the current state of Wiki -> XML<a href="#t18:19:33" class="time">18:19</a>
sticksteryup<a href="#t18:19:36" class="time">18:19</a>
glezosstickster, ReST? whats up with that?<a href="#t18:20:26" class="time">18:20</a>
quaidstickster: side note on that, are you thinking we should convert Docs/Beats/ to use ReST?  and if so, are we going to  make it harder to edit?<a href="#t18:21:10" class="time">18:21</a>
quaidglezos: so, there are two parts to PDF production for us -- is it in our toolchain (can you do make pdf), and does it work (is the output nice, does it throw errors for now reason)<a href="#t18:22:34" class="time">18:22</a>
quaidthe answer to that is, yes, we can do it with our tools, and, yes, it is often broken<a href="#t18:22:55" class="time">18:22</a>
glezosquaid, lets concentrate on the second<a href="#t18:23:09" class="time">18:23</a>
sticksterquaid: I don't think it will be much harder to edit.  There's a few more markup possibilities, but it's a *lot* more human-readable than XML<a href="#t18:23:56" class="time">18:23</a>
coufokay I've got all the XML's<a href="#t18:24:01" class="time">18:24</a>
stickstercouf: OK, you have them all in d-u-g/FC-6/en_US right?<a href="#t18:24:18" class="time">18:24</a>
coufstickster: yep<a href="#t18:24:28" class="time">18:24</a>
glezosI'm adding the Makefile<a href="#t18:24:52" class="time">18:24</a>
sticksterThen you can do "cvs add *.xml" and then "cvs ci -m 'Initial commit from wiki' *.xml"<a href="#t18:24:54" class="time">18:24</a>
stickster(inside that dir of course)<a href="#t18:25:03" class="time">18:25</a>
*stickster is going to need to run in a minute or two, for a little wihle<a href="#t18:25:23" class="time">18:25</a>
quaidglezos: ok, so the standard passivetex in Fedora is problematic; it has always had problems, as soon as one is fixed, another arises; Veillard says we should be able to file bugs and etc, but ... it's going to take some folks some concentrated effort to figure out if the passivetex could work for anything.<a href="#t18:25:25" class="time">18:25</a>
coufbtw, ugly xml layout<a href="#t18:25:55" class="time">18:25</a>
glezosok lets forget about that then for now<a href="#t18:25:57" class="time">18:25</a>
quaidglezos: the guy who does the RHEL docs toolchain tried to get passivetex to work for him for ... six months? and they kept running into the "ugly table output" and a few other things we've all seen.<a href="#t18:26:01" class="time">18:26</a>
*couf has comitted<a href="#t18:26:05" class="time">18:26</a>
sticksterYeah, it was pretty horrific<a href="#t18:26:14" class="time">18:26</a>
quaidglezos: so, for FOP we're waiting on the Java team; we can't make anything without them.<a href="#t18:26:24" class="time">18:26</a>
quaidso that leaves us with hacking in additional pathways into our Makefile<a href="#t18:26:36" class="time">18:26</a>
glezosquaid, dblatex?<a href="#t18:26:55" class="time">18:26</a>
quaidglezos: I haven't looked, is it packaged for Fedora?<a href="#t18:27:10" class="time">18:27</a>
jmbuserglezos: the KDE way<a href="#t18:27:12" class="time">18:27</a>
coufquaid: nope<a href="#t18:27:24" class="time">18:27</a>
quaidI think it would be great to add other methods, but I'm concerned about us chasing something that doesn't work; do the KDE folks report any problems with the usage?<a href="#t18:27:45" class="time">18:27</a>
sticksterglezos: I thought there was a translation problem with the KDE way of doing things<a href="#t18:27:55" class="time">18:27</a>
sticksterAm I remembering wrong?<a href="#t18:28:00" class="time">18:28</a>
jmbuserquaid: there's a modified dblatex in tar.gz package<a href="#t18:28:09" class="time">18:28</a>
*stickster thinks back to that URL he threw ino #f-docs like a grenade the other day<a href="#t18:28:17" class="time">18:28</a>
quaidalso to note, the FOP way is aligned with the upstream DocBook people; Java is what they use for this; so we hoped to catch the "wind fills all sails" method<a href="#t18:28:25" class="time">18:28</a>
quaidstickster: yeah, jmbuser captured it into his pages<a href="#t18:28:34" class="time">18:28</a>
sticksterglezos: That Makefile can go into d-u-g/FC-6/ by the way<a href="#t18:29:28" class="time">18:29</a>
sticksterOops, HunkyCaps alert<a href="#t18:30:01" class="time">18:30</a>
sticksterOh well, no biggie<a href="#t18:30:03" class="time">18:30</a>
stickstercould actually work to advantage with some automated tools<a href="#t18:30:21" class="time">18:30</a>
coufstickster: what's next?<a href="#t18:30:26" class="time">18:30</a>
quaidxmlformat is next<a href="#t18:31:09" class="time">18:31</a>
sticksterheh<a href="#t18:31:18" class="time">18:31</a>
quaidshall I?<a href="#t18:31:21" class="time">18:31</a>
sticksterplease do, sir<a href="#t18:31:25" class="time">18:31</a>
quaidor shall i teach how? :)<a href="#t18:31:27" class="time">18:31</a>
sticksterboth<a href="#t18:31:28" class="time">18:31</a>
coufyeah both ;-)<a href="#t18:31:34" class="time">18:31</a>
quaidok, so the XML needs to get some indenting<a href="#t18:31:38" class="time">18:31</a>
quaidthe best way is with xmlformat, which is in docs-common<a href="#t18:31:47" class="time">18:31</a>
coufheh, figured that<a href="#t18:31:50" class="time">18:31</a>
quaidso I'm going to do a quick loop and commit back, one second and I'll show you how<a href="#t18:31:57" class="time">18:31</a>
glezosok, added a first Makefile and rpm-info.xml<a href="#t18:32:04" class="time">18:32</a>
glezosfixing the errors now<a href="#t18:32:08" class="time">18:32</a>
sticksterglezos: Cool<a href="#t18:32:11" class="time">18:32</a>
sticksterquaid: I'll probably throw my usual Emacs local-variables in the bottom at some point, too<a href="#t18:33:36" class="time">18:33</a>
*quaid still tweaking, one minute more<a href="#t18:33:38" class="time">18:33</a>
sticksternp<a href="#t18:33:40" class="time">18:33</a>
couf:)<a href="#t18:33:45" class="time">18:33</a>
quaidfor i in ls *xml; do xmlformat -f ../../../docs-common/bin/xmlformat-fdp.conf $i > tmpfile; mv tmpfile $i; done<a href="#t18:35:37" class="time">18:35</a>
quaidso I did that<a href="#t18:35:40" class="time">18:35</a>
sticksterThe xmlformat thing quaid is doing is basically just "prettying up" the text with good indentation, etc. so it's easier to read<a href="#t18:35:43" class="time">18:35</a>
quaidnow when you cvs up -d, you'll get lots of pretty XML<a href="#t18:35:52" class="time">18:35</a>
quaidthe -f docs-common/bin/xmlformat-fdp.conf is the customized configuration file we have done for FDP<a href="#t18:36:33" class="time">18:36</a>
quaidit tells the formatter to e.g. ignore <screen> blocks, which are blocks of code you don't want to have the whitespacing formatted out<a href="#t18:37:00" class="time">18:37</a>
sticksterOK, added the local variables at end too<a href="#t18:37:02" class="time">18:37</a>
sticksterso now you can "cvs up" again<a href="#t18:37:05" class="time">18:37</a>
glezosthanks guyws<a href="#t18:37:11" class="time">18:37</a>
quaidthose are usefule for Emacs users<a href="#t18:37:14" class="time">18:37</a>
quaidand keeping things consistent<a href="#t18:37:28" class="time">18:37</a>
quaidnow you guys can safely open Emacs and start hacking on the XML without it being crazy<a href="#t18:37:51" class="time">18:37</a>
sticksterBecause as everyone knows, Emacs is the best way to do all this ;-)  *snicker<a href="#t18:38:04" class="time">18:38</a>
quaidheh<a href="#t18:38:31" class="time">18:38</a>
glezos:)<a href="#t18:38:33" class="time">18:38</a>
quaidis anyone working on the parent XML file? e.g. en_US/deskto-user-guide.xml?<a href="#t18:38:47" class="time">18:38</a>
sticksterOoo, there you go<a href="#t18:38:54" class="time">18:38</a>
quaidif not, I can hack one together quickly<a href="#t18:38:56" class="time">18:38</a>
sticksterNah, let the newbies do it<a href="#t18:39:01" class="time">18:39</a>
quaiduse the release-notes/devel/en_US/release-notes.xml as a starting place<a href="#t18:39:19" class="time">18:39</a>
coufright<a href="#t18:39:23" class="time">18:39</a>
quaidsorry, s/release-notes/RELEASE-NOTES/<a href="#t18:39:52" class="time">18:39</a>
quaidin that file, I recommend chopping out or just ignoring the <!ENTITY BUG-URL and TINY-BUG-URL for now<a href="#t18:40:43" class="time">18:40</a>
sticksteryup<a href="#t18:40:53" class="time">18:40</a>
quaidyeah, you are right, this is a relatively easy file to modify, and it is good stuff to look at<a href="#t18:41:57" class="time">18:41</a>
glezosthe list of XML files are duplicated in the Makefile and the desktop-user-guide.xml, right?<a href="#t18:42:49" class="time">18:42</a>
quaidright<a href="#t18:44:27" class="time">18:44</a>
coufso the different xml-files should get a heading right?<a href="#t18:44:51" class="time">18:44</a>
quaidthe d-u-g.xml is actually pulling the files in with XIncludes, where the Makefile needs the list of files ... well, I forget why the makefile needs the list :)<a href="#t18:44:58" class="time">18:44</a>
glezosand since r.h.c is down, which package provides xmlto?<a href="#t18:45:04" class="time">18:45</a>
quaidcouf: yes, each file is a full xml file, with a header that says e.g.'chapter' instead of ;book'<a href="#t18:45:33" class="time">18:45</a>
quaidrpm -q --whatprovides which xmlto<a href="#t18:46:16" class="time">18:46</a>
quaidxmlto-0.0.18-13.1<a href="#t18:46:18" class="time">18:46</a>
glezosthanks<a href="#t18:47:30" class="time">18:47</a>
quaidcouf: you can look at the files in release-notes/devel/en_US/ to see how each XML should be prepared.<a href="#t18:48:02" class="time">18:48</a>
coufquaid: yeah<a href="#t18:51:21" class="time">18:51</a>
coufquaid: getting error with tables-stuff, should this be changed in xml?<a href="#t18:52:23" class="time">18:52</a>
coufwe're working on Communications.xml to know how everything works<a href="#t18:52:44" class="time">18:52</a>
coufexact error is:<a href="#t18:53:27" class="time">18:53</a>
couf./Communications.xml:404: element table: validity error : Element table content does not follow the DTD, expecting ((blockinfo? , (title , titleabbrev?) , indexterm* , textobject* , (graphic+ | mediaobject+ | tgroup+)) | (caption , (col* | colgroup*) , thead? , tfoot? , (tbody+ | tr+))), got (caption tgroup para para )<a href="#t18:53:33" class="time">18:53</a>
*quaid looks<a href="#t18:55:13" class="time">18:55</a>
quaidok, 404 should be the line number<a href="#t18:56:28" class="time">18:56</a>
coufyeah, we're getting some of those error's<a href="#t18:57:31" class="time">18:57</a>
quaidcan you check in this version of Communications.xml so I can see it?<a href="#t18:57:31" class="time">18:57</a>
glezosquaid, its checked in<a href="#t18:57:43" class="time">18:57</a>
quaidwith the DOCTYPE header included?<a href="#t18:59:01" class="time">18:59</a>
coufquaid: not yet, hang on<a href="#t18:59:53" class="time">18:59</a>
coufdifferent version<a href="#t18:59:56" class="time">18:59</a>
quaidk<a href="#t19:00:01" class="time">19:00</a>
coufnow it should be<a href="#t19:01:16" class="time">19:01</a>
quaidok, good, now I'm looking at the same line numbering<a href="#t19:02:56" class="time">19:02</a>
glezosquaid, this cool guy sitting next to me hacking on the DUG is *also* documenting each step for future reference.. how cool is that.<a href="#t19:03:02" class="time">19:03</a>
jmbuserthanks, cool guy!<a href="#t19:03:32" class="time">19:03</a>
quaid<a href=""></a> is where I'm looking<a href="#t19:03:33" class="time">19:03</a>
quaidglezos: :D<a href="#t19:03:41" class="time">19:03</a>
quaidah, the admonition problem!<a href="#t19:04:25" class="time">19:04</a>
quaidok, so here's one of the problems we currently have with wiki => XML<a href="#t19:04:38" class="time">19:04</a>
*stickster gets back from furniture moving<a href="#t19:04:45" class="time">19:04</a>
quaidthere is no sense of an admonition in the Wiki<a href="#t19:04:58" class="time">19:04</a>
quaidwe use a e.g. Stop (medium size).png in a table, but that is a visual formatting<a href="#t19:05:08" class="time">19:05</a>
quaidso, the table that is erroring here needs to be replaced with a proper admonition<a href="#t19:05:23" class="time">19:05</a>
quaidin fact, you'll probably find that _all_ tables in the XML are in fact admonitions<a href="#t19:05:34" class="time">19:05</a>
*stickster hacks a couple things in d-u-g.xml<a href="#t19:05:36" class="time">19:05</a>
quaiddoes that make sense or should I update this XML to how what I mean?<a href="#t19:05:59" class="time">19:05</a>
coufquaid: it makes some sense, but do show us<a href="#t19:07:06" class="time">19:07</a>
quaidok, fix checked in<a href="#t19:08:23" class="time">19:08</a>
*glezos feels that these non-automatic procedures take the Handbook off the table completely... :(<a href="#t19:08:27" class="time">19:08</a>
quaidthat is, not sure it will make the doc build stop breaking, but it should help :)<a href="#t19:08:35" class="time">19:08</a>
quaidglezos: this is the broken part that we had all the GSoC coding done for ... which we are still not using<a href="#t19:08:57" class="time">19:08</a>
*jmbuser makes note to self to do DocBook admonitions in comments to speed things up in the future<a href="#t19:09:17" class="time">19:09</a>
*stickster fixes prolog in d-u-g.xml<a href="#t19:09:18" class="time">19:09</a>
quaidthe "new" path is much better, for example, that's why we use the funky admonition style in the Docs/Beats/<a href="#t19:09:19" class="time">19:09</a>
*stickster notes that ReST has ability to do "real" admonitions<a href="#t19:09:39" class="time">19:09</a>
sticksterIncluding all five of our types for DocBook, meaning they should come out correctly both visually and XMLish<a href="#t19:09:58" class="time">19:09</a>
jmbuserstickster: another time you'll have to explain ReST - it kinda came out of nowhere for me<a href="#t19:10:33" class="time">19:10</a>
sticksterjmbuser: <a href=""></a><a href="#t19:10:59" class="time">19:10</a>
jmbuserstickster: thanks<a href="#t19:11:17" class="time">19:11</a>
coufquaid: right got that, what are the possible admonittions?<a href="#t19:12:07" class="time">19:12</a>
quaidok<a href="#t19:12:35" class="time">19:12</a>
*couf notes: one file to help out, the rest will be doable, I hope<a href="#t19:12:44" class="time">19:12</a>
*stickster adds doc-entities.xml file too<a href="#t19:13:03" class="time">19:13</a>
stickstercouf: note, tip, important, caution, warning<a href="#t19:13:19" class="time">19:13</a>
coufstickster: thanks<a href="#t19:13:33" class="time">19:13</a>
stickstersee also the Documentation Guide for how to use each one<a href="#t19:13:37" class="time">19:13</a>
quaid<a href=""></a><a href="#t19:13:38" class="time">19:13</a>
*quaid saves that <a href="#t19:13:47" class="time">19:13</a>
quaidthat helps, because the wiki only shows you which Note.png was used<a href="#t19:14:31" class="time">19:14</a>
*stickster corrects relative path in doc-entities.xml<a href="#t19:16:36" class="time">19:16</a>
sticksterEverybody make sure you cvs-up<a href="#t19:16:41" class="time">19:16</a>
coufstickster: hmm getting errors now<a href="#t19:17:51" class="time">19:17</a>
stickstercouf: To be expected.<a href="#t19:17:58" class="time">19:17</a>
coufstickster: aah okay<a href="#t19:18:11" class="time">19:18</a>
stickstercouf: You mean 'C'onflicts in CVS?<a href="#t19:18:12" class="time">19:18</a>
sticksterOr when you do a "make validate-xml"?<a href="#t19:18:21" class="time">19:18</a>
coufstickster: no, in the make<a href="#t19:18:22" class="time">19:18</a>
sticksterOK, yes, perfectly expected at this point.<a href="#t19:18:27" class="time">19:18</a>
quaidright<a href="#t19:18:34" class="time">19:18</a>
sticksterThere's a lot of XML still to be fixed.<a href="#t19:18:39" class="time">19:18</a>
coufright<a href="#t19:18:41" class="time">19:18</a>
stickstercouf: Believe it or not, those error message *will* tell you exactly where the problem is.<a href="#t19:18:52" class="time">19:18</a>
quaidthe technique is, you go through and fix all you know (such as table => admonition)<a href="#t19:18:54" class="time">19:18</a>
quaidthen you build, it breaks, and you fix that<a href="#t19:18:59" class="time">19:18</a>
quaidrepeat until it stops breaking<a href="#t19:19:08" class="time">19:19</a>
sticksterYou just need to take your time and read the error messages... believe me, it takes a *lot* of patience sometimes!!!<a href="#t19:19:16" class="time">19:19</a>
quaidone clue is ...<a href="#t19:19:25" class="time">19:19</a>
quaidit dumps all the output for you, so the error is often buried somewhere<a href="#t19:19:39" class="time">19:19</a>
quaidif you start at the bottom of the error content and work backward, you can find the spot where "warning" becomes "error"<a href="#t19:20:05" class="time">19:20</a>
sticksterAh, I also needed to commit the new Makefile stuff, sorrry<a href="#t19:20:15" class="time">19:20</a>
stickstercvs up again<a href="#t19:20:18" class="time">19:20</a>
coufaah<a href="#t19:20:18" class="time">19:20</a>
sticksterNow you'll get different and all-new errors!<a href="#t19:20:27" class="time">19:20</a>
coufstickster: that's better :)<a href="#t19:20:34" class="time">19:20</a>
coufit was an error on your doc-entities, that's way I mentioned it<a href="#t19:20:45" class="time">19:20</a>
coufnow gone<a href="#t19:20:53" class="time">19:20</a>
sticksterYup, my fault entirely, forgot to tell the Makefile they were there so it could build the .ent from the .xml<a href="#t19:21:12" class="time">19:21</a>
coufheh, no problem<a href="#t19:21:55" class="time">19:21</a>
sticksterquaid: Are we doing this as <article> with <section>s or <book> with <chapter>s (like other guides)?<a href="#t19:22:24" class="time">19:22</a>
*stickster asks before we start putting prologs in all the files<a href="#t19:23:02" class="time">19:23</a>
quaidbook and chapter, i thought<a href="#t19:23:14" class="time">19:23</a>
stickstercool<a href="#t19:23:22" class="time">19:23</a>
*stickster makes change in Communications, should be easily mergeable<a href="#t19:24:10" class="time">19:24</a>
sticksterOK, committed<a href="#t19:24:39" class="time">19:24</a>
coufso I just committed the new Communications with all admonitions<a href="#t19:27:38" class="time">19:27</a>
coufstickster, quaid: could anyone just check it?<a href="#t19:27:50" class="time">19:27</a>
*stickster needs to correct XPointer real quick<a href="#t19:28:20" class="time">19:28</a>
*stickster is fixing some rpm-info problems, hang on<a href="#t19:31:40" class="time">19:31</a>
sticksterrpm-info must be valid for anything else to work properly :-)<a href="#t19:31:55" class="time">19:31</a>
jmbuser(makes small talk) how did the talks go?<a href="#t19:32:39" class="time">19:32</a>
sticksterOK, couf, good work, that file is valid<a href="#t19:33:37" class="time">19:33</a>
stickstercvs up to get my changes<a href="#t19:33:44" class="time">19:33</a>
stickstercouf: Well, it still needs to get all the attachments added in the XML now<a href="#t19:34:18" class="time">19:34</a>
glezosstickster, you do all each time you produce the doc from the Beats?<a href="#t19:34:51" class="time">19:34</a>
coufstickster: so how do you do that<a href="#t19:35:03" class="time">19:35</a>
couf?<a href="#t19:35:03" class="time">19:35</a>
stickstercouf: Just download the attachments and "cvs add" and "cvs commit" them in en_US/figs/<a href="#t19:35:20" class="time">19:35</a>
sticksterglezos: Well, it's much easier when the docs are written to specific XML porting standards... :-)<a href="#t19:35:40" class="time">19:35</a>
sticksterAnd hopefully if we use ReST that will be even easier<a href="#t19:35:48" class="time">19:35</a>
sticksterAnd the rpm-info and Makefile stuff gets out of the way only once per doc<a href="#t19:36:10" class="time">19:36</a>
sticksterBut yes, we have to do a little XML hand-cobbling anytime we do a mass import<a href="#t19:36:18" class="time">19:36</a>
coufstickster: should I keep the names?<a href="#t19:37:04" class="time">19:37</a>
stickstercouf: Sure, I don't think that's a problem.<a href="#t19:37:45" class="time">19:37</a>
sticksterBits are cheap if we end up needing to change them.<a href="#t19:37:52" class="time">19:37</a>
sticksterSome things that are going to need fixing throughout:<a href="#t19:38:09" class="time">19:38</a>
sticksterTurn all the menu selections into <menuchoice> elements<a href="#t19:38:18" class="time">19:38</a>
sticksterMake sure <ulink> elements are concise<a href="#t19:38:33" class="time">19:38</a>
stickstercouf: By the way, you should make sure all the attachments are no bigger than 500px wide<a href="#t19:38:49" class="time">19:38</a>
sticksterYou can use ImageMagick's "mogrify" command for this<a href="#t19:39:04" class="time">19:39</a>
coufstickster: wide and/or high?<a href="#t19:40:19" class="time">19:40</a>
sticksterwide<a href="#t19:40:40" class="time">19:40</a>
quaidit would be cool if it had a 'valmorify' command<a href="#t19:40:50" class="time">19:40</a>
stickster?<a href="#t19:40:55" class="time">19:40</a>
quaidsorry, Team America reference<a href="#t19:41:13" class="time">19:41</a>
sticksterheh<a href="#t19:41:21" class="time">19:41</a>
quaidthey use 'valmorification' the way Calvin and Hobbes use 'transmogrify'<a href="#t19:41:44" class="time">19:41</a>
*stickster needs to read writers list more carefully<a href="#t19:42:11" class="time">19:42</a>
coufstickster: educate me<a href="#t19:42:43" class="time">19:42</a>
coufstickster: mogrify -geometry 500 file.png?<a href="#t19:46:53" class="time">19:46</a>
stickstercouf: Yes, I believe that's right<a href="#t19:47:04" class="time">19:47</a>
sticksterOr it might be 'mogrify -scale 500 file.png'<a href="#t19:47:39" class="time">19:47</a>
coufit seems to work<a href="#t19:48:12" class="time">19:48</a>
sticksterOK<a href="#t19:48:30" class="time">19:48</a>
*stickster updates colophon in rpm-info, time to cvs up again :-)<a href="#t19:48:43" class="time">19:48</a>
sticksterwhoops, one more change needed there<a href="#t19:50:37" class="time">19:50</a>
sticksterOne more cvs up :-)<a href="#t19:51:59" class="time">19:51</a>
stickstercouf: OK, now for each of those locations in the document, you'll need to have an appropriate XML element.  You can find examples all over, like the Installation Guide for instance<a href="#t19:53:46" class="time">19:53</a>
*stickster wonders how ReST parsers might deal with this -- probably better.<a href="#t19:54:17" class="time">19:54</a>
coufstickster: I see .eps files everywhere, do these need to be created aswell?<a href="#t19:54:55" class="time">19:54</a>
sticksterThose are for the print version in PDFs; you probably don't need to do anything with those for now.<a href="#t19:55:17" class="time">19:55</a>
sticksterMy personal opinion is anything like that should be built from the source PNGs at render time anyway.<a href="#t19:56:04" class="time">19:56</a>
coufright<a href="#t19:56:20" class="time">19:56</a>
sticksterMinimize what we have to store in the SCM, in other words<a href="#t19:56:21" class="time">19:56</a>
quaid+1<a href="#t19:57:55" class="time">19:57</a>
coufstickster: I think somethings wrong with the placement of the figs<a href="#t20:00:59" class="time">20:00</a>
coufshouldn't it be FC-6/figs<a href="#t20:01:12" class="time">20:01</a>
coufin stead of FC-6/en_US/figs?<a href="#t20:01:22" class="time">20:01</a>
quaidhmm, they can be translated, right?<a href="#t20:01:39" class="time">20:01</a>
quaidtheoretically, that is<a href="#t20:01:44" class="time">20:01</a>
quaidso each $LANG needs its own set? or ...?<a href="#t20:01:53" class="time">20:01</a>
sticksterquaid: I believe the build tools take care of this.  If they're translatable (i.e. screenshots) they should be in the $LANG directory.  If no others are found, the $PRI_LANG ones get used in any $LANG in $OTHERS<a href="#t20:02:26" class="time">20:02</a>
coufin install guide it's just beneath the devel or fc-x version<a href="#t20:02:31" class="time">20:02</a>
sticksterYeah, the build tools will search in several places for these.<a href="#t20:02:41" class="time">20:02</a>
sticksterThe situation in the Installation Guide is simply because no one ever provides translated screen shots, and I was too lazy to move them for now.<a href="#t20:03:01" class="time">20:03</a>
stickster:-D<a href="#t20:03:04" class="time">20:03</a>
coufthe makefile seems to be missing the right directory<a href="#t20:03:36" class="time">20:03</a>
sticksterrrr?<a href="#t20:03:41" class="time">20:03</a>
coufit's doing: [ ! -d figs ] || copy-figs -v -f '*.png' -l en_US figs desktop-user-guide-en_US<a href="#t20:04:11" class="time">20:04</a>
coufand it isn't copying anything<a href="#t20:04:18" class="time">20:04</a>
sticksterArrrgh<a href="#t20:04:38" class="time">20:04</a>
*stickster fixes prologs in all XML fiels<a href="#t20:05:14" class="time">20:05</a>
stickster*files<a href="#t20:05:14" class="time">20:05</a>
coufheh<a href="#t20:05:26" class="time">20:05</a>
stickstercouf: Please commit your changes to the XML file so I can test here<a href="#t20:05:54" class="time">20:05</a>
coufstickster: done<a href="#t20:07:07" class="time">20:07</a>
sticksterHeh, leave it to Tommy to write shell scripts in the most arcane possible way.l<a href="#t20:10:09" class="time">20:10</a>
sticksterWhy use $VARNAME when you can use $c ?<a href="#t20:10:20" class="time">20:10</a>
sticksterOK... let's see if we can fix this<a href="#t20:11:17" class="time">20:11</a>
coufso okay, just to clearify, if I copy the figs directory one up, it works<a href="#t20:13:06" class="time">20:13</a>
quaidyes<a href="#t20:13:33" class="time">20:13</a>
coufso should I move the dir on cvs or not?<a href="#t20:14:00" class="time">20:14</a>
stickstercouf: Right<a href="#t20:14:04" class="time">20:14</a>
sticksterI'm taking care of it, making it a little more obvious they're to be translated<a href="#t20:14:14" class="time">20:14</a>
coufstickster: okay<a href="#t20:14:20" class="time">20:14</a>
sticksterWhy does my po dir keep disappearing? OH well<a href="#t20:14:52" class="time">20:14</a>
sticksterOK, they're in the right place now<a href="#t20:18:11" class="time">20:18</a>
stickstercvs up and so forth :-)<a href="#t20:18:18" class="time">20:18</a>
sticksterOh crap, that is going to suck now.<a href="#t20:20:43" class="time">20:20</a>
coufokay works<a href="#t20:21:00" class="time">20:21</a>
sticksterOK, our whole copy-figs thing is completely fux0r3d.<a href="#t20:21:03" class="time">20:21</a>
stickstercouf: Well, it copies, but the sucky part is that now the lang codes are going to interfere with the L10N work<a href="#t20:21:22" class="time">20:21</a>
coufyeah, will be a problem for a bit later<a href="#t20:21:50" class="time">20:21</a>
sticksterBecause I gave them names with a L10n code, it means the XML has to point to that file name.  When a translator translates, they may not get the chance to change that file name.<a href="#t20:21:57" class="time">20:21</a>
couflet's first get the full xml<a href="#t20:21:58" class="time">20:21</a>
sticksterThus the suck.<a href="#t20:22:01" class="time">20:22</a>
sticksterSure<a href="#t20:22:08" class="time">20:22</a>
coufright<a href="#t20:22:09" class="time">20:22</a>
stickstercouf: All right, what else do you need to keep going?<a href="#t20:22:23" class="time">20:22</a>
sticksterI need to get some lunch and a bunch of other things done here today<a href="#t20:22:34" class="time">20:22</a>
coufnot much I think, I'll do a recap of what I know now<a href="#t20:22:47" class="time">20:22</a>
couf1) check header of each xml-doc + add to parent file<a href="#t20:23:02" class="time">20:23</a>
couf2) change admonition stuff<a href="#t20:23:11" class="time">20:23</a>
couf3) figures<a href="#t20:23:14" class="time">20:23</a>
coufright?<a href="#t20:23:19" class="time">20:23</a>
sticksterthat will be a great start, also 1a) make sure the top-level element of each file is a <chapter> and not a <section> or <article><a href="#t20:23:37" class="time">20:23</a>
stickster(close the tag at the end too)<a href="#t20:23:44" class="time">20:23</a>
coufright<a href="#t20:23:54" class="time">20:23</a>
stickstercool then, don't worry about validation problems -- do your best and I will be happy to help house-clean later<a href="#t20:24:07" class="time">20:24</a>
coufokay<a href="#t20:24:14" class="time">20:24</a>
sticksterWe'll also need to figure out this stupid figs deal.<a href="#t20:24:31" class="time">20:24</a>
sticksterIt could be my lack of clue about the copy-figs script, I'll re-read when I'm not starving :-D<a href="#t20:24:45" class="time">20:24</a>
coufall righty, gonna try to get the most done as long as time permits it here<a href="#t20:26:17" class="time">20:26</a>
coufthe rest'll be for tomorrow<a href="#t20:26:23" class="time">20:26</a>
jmbusercouf: I tried to pay careful attention to what you guys were doing, but i got interrupted several times by phone calls - and my brain is tired from a full day's work.<a href="#t20:28:27" class="time">20:28</a>
coufjmbuser: I'm trying to keep a list of what we've done, I'll pass it on to you, once it's got some cleanup doneµ<a href="#t20:29:07" class="time">20:29</a>
jmbusercouf: Therefore, any notes you have - and I am saving this chat transcript as well - will be helpful.<a href="#t20:29:10" class="time">20:29</a>
*jmbuser changes subject<a href="#t20:29:58" class="time">20:29</a>
jmbusercouf: so, how's FOSDEM?<a href="#t20:30:10" class="time">20:30</a>
coufit's good, a lot of people around<a href="#t20:30:31" class="time">20:30</a>
couffedora seems to be very active here in Europe<a href="#t20:30:39" class="time">20:30</a>
glezosback from Django<a href="#t20:30:47" class="time">20:30</a>
coufgot to meet some nice people, like the guy next to me<a href="#t20:30:49" class="time">20:30</a>
coufs/guy/guys<a href="#t20:31:00" class="time">20:31</a>
glezosok, I was convinced today that it would be impossible to produce a Handbook from the wiki.<a href="#t20:31:29" class="time">20:31</a>
jmbuserglezos: "rest" sounds interesting, once I figure it out<a href="#t20:35:11" class="time">20:35</a>
*ajaaya has joined #fedora-docs<a href="#t20:35:28" class="time">20:35</a>
jmbusercouf: Thanks in advance<a href="#t20:36:36" class="time">20:36</a>
glezosjmbuser, docutils?<a href="#t20:36:54" class="time">20:36</a>
jmbuserglezos: yes, although I could use a rest :-)<a href="#t20:37:37" class="time">20:37</a>
glezos:)<a href="#t20:38:12" class="time">20:38</a>
coufjmbuser: np<a href="#t20:38:37" class="time">20:38</a>
ajaaya#fedora-docs: hello<a href="#t20:39:47" class="time">20:39</a>
jmbuserajaaya: hi<a href="#t20:40:07" class="time">20:40</a>
ajaayajmbuser: did I miss the DUG to XML conversation?<a href="#t20:40:32" class="time">20:40</a>
jmbuserajaaya: yes, but I am logging the session and our guys at FOSDEM are producing notes<a href="#t20:41:22" class="time">20:41</a>
ajaayajmbuser: thanks mate<a href="#t20:41:42" class="time">20:41</a>
jmbuserajaaya: I will put the log under my (not so) private wiki sandbox as JohnBabich/FosdemDocs in a few hours<a href="#t20:43:46" class="time">20:43</a>
couflol<a href="#t20:44:33" class="time">20:44</a>
ajaayajmbuser: kewl<a href="#t20:44:39" class="time">20:44</a>

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