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-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call 13:00
f13 ping: jeremy jwb rdieter spot poelcat wwoods warren lmacken notting 13:01
jwb hi 13:01
* jeremy waves 13:01
* lmacken 13:02
f13 spot is still on vaca 13:02
* wwoods here 13:02
f13 notting is MIA 13:02
* f13 waits a couple more minutes 13:04
f13 Bill is at the zoo with his kids 13:07
f13 which could mean he's at his house 13:07
jeremy heh 13:07
f13 but either way he won't be joining us 13:07
jwb whoa... knockin on kids 13:07
f13 anywho lets get started. 13:07
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F9 milestone 13:08
f13 .rel 24 13:08
zodbot f13: #24 (spins for Fedora 9) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/24 13:08
f13 jwb: any update? 13:08
jwb no 13:08
mether Its been quite some time since the Fedora 9 release. At this point, releasing it without including updates might not be a good idea 13:09
jwb that will make it harder to release at all 13:10
f13 indeed 13:10
f13 not only harder, but increase our source requirements a bit 13:10
f13 jwb: are we (releng) stalled on something from the spins sig? 13:10
jwb for the XFCE,Games,FEL F9 spins, no 13:11
f13 ok, what are we waiting on? 13:11
jwb we need virt guests spun up for us from Infrastructure to do the spins and then someone to actually run the commands 13:11
lmacken is there an RFR ? 13:12
jwb a what? 13:12
f13 request for resources 13:12
dgilmore request for resources 13:12
lmacken http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/RFR 13:12
f13 IE have you pinged the infrastructure folks about getting the virt image this time around? 13:12
jwb no. i very much suck and have't gotten to it 13:12
f13 ok. Can you update the ticket with teh work needed? 13:12
jwb yes 13:13
* nirik would really like to see the xfce spin up soon. 13:13
f13 if I get time I'll do it. 13:13
* lmacken wishes the new spin bottleneck^Wprocess was usable 13:13
jwb lmacken, it would be if it didn't hinge on me 13:13
lmacken jwb: the submissions process isn't 13:14
lmacken https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/498 13:14
f13 so I can get the virt image up, use the ks configs from the git repo, and create the spins, then where do they go? 13:14
jwb lmacken, EDIFFERENTMEETING ;) 13:14
jwb f13, spins.fp.o 13:14
f13 is there a matrix of which spins get produced for which arches? 13:15
jwb not following 13:16
jwb XFCE, FEL, Games get done for i686 and x86_64 13:16
f13 ok, nothing for ppc? 13:18
jwb no 13:18
f13 k 13:19
f13 then do we ask each spin owner to do their own announcing? 13:19
jwb yes 13:19
jwb also, there was talk about doing a "Beta" first 13:19
jwb i have no idea if that is plan of record now or not. last time i did this, it wasn't 13:19
jeremy do we have the components created in bugzilla for the new spins? 13:20
f13 what's new? 13:20
f13 didn't all of these exist for F8? 13:20
jwb yes 13:20
jwb jeremy, dunno about bugzilla 13:20
jeremy there weren't new components created in f8 -- that's one of the new things with the spin policy 13:20
jwb frankly, that's probably an F10 item if we need that 13:20
jwb F9 is still "special" 13:20
jeremy jwb: it's not like bugzilla components are difficult to create if we have owners for them -- I can easily do so 13:21
jwb jeremy, ok that's fine. i just don't think it's a blocker at the moment 13:21
jeremy jwb: you don't get the bugs :-P 13:22
jwb true 13:22
jeremy (who is the owner for each of them?) 13:22
mether I am for Xfce and Games 13:22
jeremy k 13:23
jwb f13, if the Beta stuff needs to be done, the idea was to mark the first spins as Beta, let them sit there for 2 weeks to collect input/feedback/fixes, and then respin if necessary for release. if no fixes required, just promote 13:23
* jeremy goes to create images 13:23
jeremy err, components in bugzilla 13:23
jwb ok 13:23
mether I suppose Chitlesh is if FEL is now maintained for Fedora 9 13:23
jwb mether, i don't think so 13:24
jwb kanarip, who owns FEL now? 13:24
jwb someone other than Chitlesh was working on it 13:24
kanarip jwb, Chitlesh and tnorth, still 13:24
jwb ah, tnorth 13:24
kanarip are they not listed as maintainers in the most recent kickstart? 13:24
jwb no idea 13:25
mether kanarip: did tuxmaniac volunteer too? 13:25
kanarip mether, haven't seen him but i'm on vacation 13:25
mether ok 13:25
kanarip *in the middle of nowhere with supposedly no internet access at all* ;-) 13:25
f13 ok, so jwb will update the ticket, jeremy will create bugzilla entries, and if I get time today I'll try making some beta images to put on the torrent server 13:27
jwb ticket is updated 13:27
f13 great. Anything else on this topic? 13:27
jwb I'm sorry 13:28
jwb officially 13:28
jwb got that poelcat ? :) 13:28
jeremy and bugzilla components created 13:29
poelcat jwb: got it (will read scrollback later) :) 13:29
jwb poelcat, cool :) 13:30
f13 awesome. 13:30
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F10 rawhide milestone 13:30
f13 .rel 23 13:30
zodbot f13: #23 (Fedora 10 Naming) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/23 13:30
f13 jwb: you have the floor again 13:30
jwb so, no update from Legal on the latest list 13:30
jwb the first list from the board was axed down to just "Water" 13:31
jwb waiting on Legal again. 13:31
f13 with some questioning of 'Red Hat Linux' 13:31
f13 RHL wasn't necessarily thrown out 13:31
jwb then i consider it in 13:31
jwb :) 13:31
jwb as a side note, the Art team likely isn't going to be happy 13:33
jwb all of the names they've been playing with have been cut 13:33
f13 sadly such is life :/ 13:33
jeremy jwb: probably worth giving them a heads up 13:33
jwb jeremy, i told mo already 13:33
jeremy good enough for me :) 13:33
jwb which is why i know they aren't going to be happy 13:33
jwb i also talked to stickster_afk a bit about how strong the requirement is for a legal approved name 13:34
jwb unofficially 13:34
jwb "moderately strong" was the unofficial answer 13:34
jeremy very 13:34
f13 we're not going to do a name change post-release again. 13:34
jwb f13, huh? 13:35
f13 jwb: the whole reason why we have legal clear names now 13:35
jwb ok 13:35
jwb well, the end result is that we probably won't have a theme related to the name 13:35
jwb that might continue to be a trend going forward 13:36
wwoods it was a trend in the past, since we never used to announce the names until the release happened 13:37
wwoods the name for the default theme doesn't *need* to have a damn thing to do with the codename. 13:38
wwoods can we just name F10 Neon and use atomic elements from here on out, and never have this discussion again? 13:38
f13 Neon was thrown out 13:38
wwoods yeah and I'm sure Palm would fight us over, say, Tungsten 13:38
f13 anywho, we'll keep waiting for Legal to return a reasonable amount of names for us to go to public vote with 13:39
f13 I expect a response middle of this week 13:39
skvidal f13: water seems like a reasonable list :-) </sarcasm> 13:39
f13 skvidal: aren't you short on that? 13:39
skvidal f13: not right now - our drought abated a lot 13:40
f13 good 13:40
* f13 flushes some more toilets for skvidal 13:40
f13 anywho, moving on 13:40
skvidal <stab> 13:40
jwb skvidal, you don't like it when people flush toilets? 13:40
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering 13:40
skvidal jwb: I'll explain later 13:40
f13 the next milestones are Alpha and such 13:40
f13 I don't really have a lot to talk about outside of those issues. Continued battle with trac spam, more working on pungi for thigns like gathering debuginfo, and the little changes we had to do for the anaconda-runtime -> anaconda move, and taking on splittree/pkgorder. 13:41
f13 I'm also working on the jpackage stuff trying to smooth out that relationship and solve some issues there ( looks like I"ve been voted into jpackage purely on a packaging/infrastructure basis, having no java knowledge at all ) 13:42
f13 and I'm playing with the Red Hat Enterprise MRG Messaging stuff 13:42
jwb for what? 13:42
f13 that vision I had of future infrastructure communication bus 13:42
jwb oh 13:43
jwb neat 13:43
f13 could prove very handy for the workflow/scm redesign 13:43
jwb confused a bit about it, but sounds interesting 13:43
f13 jwb: basically we can grow the number of systems that interconnect in our infrastructure without teaching each system how to directly talk to each other system 13:44
jwb so this is essentially a cross-machine dbus? 13:44
f13 jwb: we can gain the ability to do post-commit validations, post build testing, etc without teaching SCM to talk to testopia, or koji to talk to whatever 13:44
f13 jwb: cross machine, cross language 13:44
jwb xmlrpc? 13:45
f13 jwb: not quite. AMQP 13:45
jwb oh, that 13:45
jwb spiffy 13:45
f13 AMQP is the messaging standard, qpid is an implementation of that standard 13:45
jwb yeah, i recall you mentioning that now 13:45
f13 one of the first targets might be a notification server that toshio was thinking about. 13:45
f13 all our tools could just drop broadcasts on the message bus, and the notification server would take care of emailing what to whom 13:46
f13 so that cvs doesn't have to talk to pkgdb anymore to figure out who to send mail to 13:46
jwb SPOF? 13:46
f13 doesn't have to be 13:47
jwb probably a good idea for it not to be :) 13:48
f13 AMQP (and plugins) allow for redundant systems 13:48
f13 and for durable messages/queues/etc.. with disk backups 13:48
f13 and there is protocol for the client sending the message to get a conformation of delivery sot hat it can block on that conformation 13:48
f13 (which is better than we have right now, with the ^c thing) 13:49
jwb so how does this play into priorities vs. things like sigul? 13:49
f13 sigul is higher priority 13:50
jwb k 13:50
f13 although sigul could actually benefit from the message bus 13:50
f13 especially if we want to do auto-signing of koji builds 13:50
f13 but that's just details. 13:50
f13 the message bus is lower priority and I'v ebeen doing most my research on my non-work time as it's interesting to me 13:51
f13 As far as sigul goes, the smart cards I ordered aren't here yet, but once they arrive I'll be spending lots more time on that 13:51
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Floor 13:53
f13 anything else anybody would like to talk about? 13:53
dindon34 which one is better fedora or ubuntu help 13:55
wwoods completely off-topic 13:55
f13 alright I'll close the meeting. 13:57
f13 thanks all! 13:57
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule 13:57

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Without Time Stamps

  • Works fine :-)
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call
f13 ping: jeremy jwb rdieter spot poelcat wwoods warren lmacken notting
jwb hi
* jeremy waves
* lmacken
f13 spot is still on vaca
* wwoods here
f13 notting is MIA
* f13 waits a couple more minutes
f13 Bill is at the zoo with his kids
f13 which could mean he's at his house
jeremy heh
f13 but either way he won't be joining us
jwb whoa... knockin on kids
f13 anywho lets get started.
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F9 milestone
f13 .rel 24
zodbot f13: #24 (spins for Fedora 9) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/24
f13 jwb: any update?
jwb no
mether Its been quite some time since the Fedora 9 release. At this point, releasing it without including updates might not be a good idea
jwb that will make it harder to release at all
f13 indeed
f13 not only harder, but increase our source requirements a bit
f13 jwb: are we (releng) stalled on something from the spins sig?
jwb for the XFCE,Games,FEL F9 spins, no
f13 ok, what are we waiting on?
jwb we need virt guests spun up for us from Infrastructure to do the spins and then someone to actually run the commands
lmacken is there an RFR ?
jwb a what?
f13 request for resources
dgilmore request for resources
lmacken http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/RFR
f13 IE have you pinged the infrastructure folks about getting the virt image this time around?
jwb no. i very much suck and have't gotten to it
f13 ok. Can you update the ticket with teh work needed?
jwb yes
* nirik would really like to see the xfce spin up soon.
f13 if I get time I'll do it.
* lmacken wishes the new spin bottleneck^Wprocess was usable
jwb lmacken, it would be if it didn't hinge on me
lmacken jwb: the submissions process isn't
lmacken https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/498
f13 so I can get the virt image up, use the ks configs from the git repo, and create the spins, then where do they go?
jwb lmacken, EDIFFERENTMEETING ;)
jwb f13, spins.fp.o
f13 is there a matrix of which spins get produced for which arches?
jwb not following
jwb XFCE, FEL, Games get done for i686 and x86_64
f13 ok, nothing for ppc?
jwb no
f13 k
f13 then do we ask each spin owner to do their own announcing?
jwb yes
jwb also, there was talk about doing a "Beta" first
jwb i have no idea if that is plan of record now or not. last time i did this, it wasn't
jeremy do we have the components created in bugzilla for the new spins?
f13 what's new?
f13 didn't all of these exist for F8?
jwb yes
jwb jeremy, dunno about bugzilla
jeremy there weren't new components created in f8 -- that's one of the new things with the spin policy
jwb frankly, that's probably an F10 item if we need that
jwb F9 is still "special"
jeremy jwb: it's not like bugzilla components are difficult to create if we have owners for them -- I can easily do so
jwb jeremy, ok that's fine. i just don't think it's a blocker at the moment
jeremy jwb: you don't get the bugs :-P
jwb true
jeremy (who is the owner for each of them?)
mether I am for Xfce and Games
jeremy k
jwb f13, if the Beta stuff needs to be done, the idea was to mark the first spins as Beta, let them sit there for 2 weeks to collect input/feedback/fixes, and then respin if necessary for release. if no fixes required, just promote
* jeremy goes to create images
jeremy err, components in bugzilla
jwb ok
mether I suppose Chitlesh is if FEL is now maintained for Fedora 9
jwb mether, i don't think so
jwb kanarip, who owns FEL now?
jwb someone other than Chitlesh was working on it
kanarip jwb, Chitlesh and tnorth, still
jwb ah, tnorth
kanarip are they not listed as maintainers in the most recent kickstart?
jwb no idea
mether kanarip: did tuxmaniac volunteer too?
kanarip mether, haven't seen him but i'm on vacation
mether ok
kanarip *in the middle of nowhere with supposedly no internet access at all* ;-)
f13 ok, so jwb will update the ticket, jeremy will create bugzilla entries, and if I get time today I'll try making some beta images to put on the torrent server
jwb ticket is updated
f13 great. Anything else on this topic?
jwb I'm sorry
jwb officially
jwb got that poelcat ? :)
jeremy and bugzilla components created
poelcat jwb: got it (will read scrollback later) :)
jwb poelcat, cool :)
f13 awesome.
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F10 rawhide milestone
f13 .rel 23
zodbot f13: #23 (Fedora 10 Naming) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/23
f13 jwb: you have the floor again
jwb so, no update from Legal on the latest list
jwb the first list from the board was axed down to just "Water"
jwb waiting on Legal again.
f13 with some questioning of 'Red Hat Linux'
f13 RHL wasn't necessarily thrown out
jwb then i consider it in
jwb :)
jwb as a side note, the Art team likely isn't going to be happy
jwb all of the names they've been playing with have been cut
f13 sadly such is life :/
jeremy jwb: probably worth giving them a heads up
jwb jeremy, i told mo already
jeremy good enough for me :)
jwb which is why i know they aren't going to be happy
jwb i also talked to stickster_afk a bit about how strong the requirement is for a legal approved name
jwb unofficially
jwb "moderately strong" was the unofficial answer
jeremy very
f13 we're not going to do a name change post-release again.
jwb f13, huh?
f13 jwb: the whole reason why we have legal clear names now
jwb ok
jwb well, the end result is that we probably won't have a theme related to the name
jwb that might continue to be a trend going forward
wwoods it was a trend in the past, since we never used to announce the names until the release happened
wwoods the name for the default theme doesn't *need* to have a damn thing to do with the codename.
wwoods can we just name F10 Neon and use atomic elements from here on out, and never have this discussion again?
f13 Neon was thrown out
wwoods yeah and I'm sure Palm would fight us over, say, Tungsten
f13 anywho, we'll keep waiting for Legal to return a reasonable amount of names for us to go to public vote with
f13 I expect a response middle of this week
skvidal f13: water seems like a reasonable list :-) </sarcasm>
f13 skvidal: aren't you short on that?
skvidal f13: not right now - our drought abated a lot
f13 good
* f13 flushes some more toilets for skvidal
f13 anywho, moving on
skvidal <stab>
jwb skvidal, you don't like it when people flush toilets?
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering
skvidal jwb: I'll explain later
f13 the next milestones are Alpha and such
f13 I don't really have a lot to talk about outside of those issues. Continued battle with trac spam, more working on pungi for thigns like gathering debuginfo, and the little changes we had to do for the anaconda-runtime -> anaconda move, and taking on splittree/pkgorder.
f13 I'm also working on the jpackage stuff trying to smooth out that relationship and solve some issues there ( looks like I"ve been voted into jpackage purely on a packaging/infrastructure basis, having no java knowledge at all )
f13 and I'm playing with the Red Hat Enterprise MRG Messaging stuff
jwb for what?
f13 that vision I had of future infrastructure communication bus
jwb oh
jwb neat
f13 could prove very handy for the workflow/scm redesign
jwb confused a bit about it, but sounds interesting
f13 jwb: basically we can grow the number of systems that interconnect in our infrastructure without teaching each system how to directly talk to each other system
jwb so this is essentially a cross-machine dbus?
f13 jwb: we can gain the ability to do post-commit validations, post build testing, etc without teaching SCM to talk to testopia, or koji to talk to whatever
f13 jwb: cross machine, cross language
jwb xmlrpc?
f13 jwb: not quite. AMQP
jwb oh, that
jwb spiffy
f13 AMQP is the messaging standard, qpid is an implementation of that standard
jwb yeah, i recall you mentioning that now
f13 one of the first targets might be a notification server that toshio was thinking about.
f13 all our tools could just drop broadcasts on the message bus, and the notification server would take care of emailing what to whom
f13 so that cvs doesn't have to talk to pkgdb anymore to figure out who to send mail to
jwb SPOF?
f13 doesn't have to be
jwb probably a good idea for it not to be :)
f13 AMQP (and plugins) allow for redundant systems
f13 and for durable messages/queues/etc.. with disk backups
f13 and there is protocol for the client sending the message to get a conformation of delivery sot hat it can block on that conformation
f13 (which is better than we have right now, with the ^c thing)
jwb so how does this play into priorities vs. things like sigul?
f13 sigul is higher priority
jwb k
f13 although sigul could actually benefit from the message bus
f13 especially if we want to do auto-signing of koji builds
f13 but that's just details.
f13 the message bus is lower priority and I'v ebeen doing most my research on my non-work time as it's interesting to me
f13 As far as sigul goes, the smart cards I ordered aren't here yet, but once they arrive I'll be spending lots more time on that
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Floor
f13 anything else anybody would like to talk about?
dindon34 which one is better fedora or ubuntu help
wwoods completely off-topic
f13 alright I'll close the meeting.
f13 thanks all!
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule

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