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Transcript of Marketing meeting, Feb. 19, 2009

=-= herlo has changed the topic to Marketing Meeting 20:02
* spevack is like the Meeting Terminator today 20:02
moixs hehe :) 20:03
spevack charging from one to another and leaving destruction in my wake 20:03
themayor lol 20:04
themayor how many are here so far 20:04
biertie biertie here! 20:04
moixs Rolling call? 20:04
biertie .fas biertie 20:04
zodbot biertie: biertie 'Bert Desmet' <> 20:04
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themayor yeah roll call i guess 20:05
moixs Steven Moix 20:05
themayor lets make it quick i dont want to fall behind 20:05
mizmo-out hi 20:06
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fugolini FrancescoUgolini 20:06
* themayor waves to mizmo 20:06
mizmo Máirín Duffy 20:06
mizmo yo themayor 20:06
themayor lcafeiro is on his way to scale i know that 20:07
spevack Max 20:08
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spevack still trying to extract himself from #fedora-ambassadors meeting 20:08
themayor np 20:08
themayor alright, moixs youre recording, right? 20:08
moixs This time, yes :) 20:08
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themayor okay thanks for that 20:09
themayor did you see the not about the irclog2html thing? 20:09
themayor should make your life alot easier 20:09
moixs Yes, I already experimented with it 20:10
themayor okay great 20:10
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moixs should be up 1 minute after the meeting ;) So spevack should be happy 20:10
themayor anyway, lets move on to bigger and better things then 20:10
* spevack is willing to give you 10 minutes :) 20:10
themayor lol 20:11
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spevack ping? 20:11
themayor yeah 20:12
themayor i was looking something up in email 20:12
themayor alright 20:12
themayor so im glad that people were receptive to the new idea 20:12
themayor so we gonna start working from that starting from this meeting 20:13
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themayor i kind of sucks that ianweller and jonrob cant make it to the meetings anymore 20:13
fugolini can we have a new meeting time? 20:14
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fugolini (to have them here) 20:14
themayor if thats what everyone wants and it will get more people here, then sure, im not opposed 20:14
spevack well, let's do what we can today, without them. is there anything on our agenda that doesn't involve ian or jonrob? 20:14
herlo a couple hours later in the day would probably all that needs to happen... 20:15
themayor yeah, yes, i was about to say, lets not discuss it right now, but do it on the list 20:15
moixs a couple of hours later is in the middle of the night in europe :p 20:15
biertie a couple hours = like...? :p 20:15
themayor it might need to be earlier actually 20:15
* herlo agrees with spevack, however 20:15
biertie I can come till 21 or 22h utc :) 20:15
moixs Let's ask this on the mailinglist 20:16
herlo this can be discussed on the ml 20:16
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fugolini +1 20:16
themayor okay, can someone be the wrangler for this stuff and try and coordinate between everyone? 20:16
themayor and then report back to us next week? 20:16
moixs I'll do it 20:16
themayor or send an official mail to the list regarding what should be done 20:16
themayor moixs: thanks again man 20:16
themayor ideally if we are going to change times, we should have it done by next week already 20:17
themayor agreed? 20:17
spevack yes 20:17
biertie agreed :) 20:17
themayor okay good 20:17
themayor now moving on, moixs thanks for your post to the list about action items that should be on the calendar 20:18
themayor did everyone see that? 20:18
* biertie did 20:18
moixs I think that this should be put on the wiki so everyone can add ideas in the subtasks 20:18
themayor yes agreed 20:19
themayor i was going to ask you if you thought you had time to do so 20:19
themayor so the schedule from now on is going to be on Marketing/Schedule/Current 20:20
themayor and thats going to be a link to Marketing/Schedule/Fedora 11 Marketing Schedule 20:20
spevack themayor: you mean Current_marketing_schedule to keep our wiki overlords happy :) 20:20
spevack and Category:Marketing 20:21
themayor yeah whatever 20:21
themayor im bad with that stuff, i need to work with pfrields or kwade to get that stuff in order 20:21
spevack Well, we start by making any new pages in the proper fashion 20:21
themayor but conceptually, we are on the same page 20:21
spevack yes, please continue 20:21
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themayor spevack: yes, thats what i meant 20:21
moixs themayor: ok, I'll manage that tomorrow too 20:22
themayor i dont even know if i did the current schedule page correctly 20:22
themayor because i used Template:Marketing/Schedule/Template and I think thats not good right? 20:22
spevack Content is more important than presentation, IMHO. Throw it up on the right page (Current_marketing_schedule) and then clean it up 20:23
themayor either way from last week's meeting everyone was supposed to send me tasks that thought should be on there and no one did yet, except for moixs 20:23
themayor okay so can we discuss then the range of things which we need to do for each release and then carry that over into specifically f11? 20:24
spevack themayor: I thought the tasks that were on JonRob's schedule page were quite complete 20:24
spevack themayor: +1 20:24
themayor the stuff thats on there is for now, yes 20:25
themayor except there are 1-2 things that need to be added 20:25
themayor but anyway, working with what we have 20:25
themayor lay press contacts, that list will be up at the meeting next week 20:25
themayor i have a list here of people we usually talk to and people we might want to speak to 20:25
spevack themayor: who's in charge of the lay press contacts? 20:26
themayor due date is 03-03 so i figure if we have it by next week, its enough time for people to look it over and tell me what they think and if we are missing anone 20:26
themayor me 20:26
spevack ok.  :) 20:26
themayor of contacting them or making the list? 20:26
* herlo makes a suggestion about the wiki 20:26
spevack making the list 20:26
spevack herlo: suggest away 20:26
themayor im responsible for the initial list and i guess we will work with it from there 20:26
themayor herlo: go 20:27
herlo as you go to pages that have this/that/theother just do a move to the appropriate name this_that_theother 20:27
herlo that's what I do 20:27
spevack herlo: clever man 20:27
herlo it will make moving things around a lot easier 20:27
herlo and everyone can help 20:27
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fugolini sure 20:27
herlo if you don't know what to change it to, ask the WikiCzar :) 20:27
themayor we need to make a session where we can meet up and have ian here and work on that stuff 20:27
moixs herlo: so the wiki structure is basically completely "flat" now? 20:28
herlo moixs: yep 20:28
herlo basically 20:28
moixs ahha 20:28
herlo the trick is to also add categories 20:28
themayor if we focus on it for an hour once or twice between now and say 2 weeks from now, we could accomplish quite alot 20:28
herlo like at the bottom of the pages making them relevant and they'll show up in the category pages 20:28
herlo that's how mediawiki categorizes things 20:29
themayor ill kickstart that discussion on the list right now actually 20:29
moixs herlo: yep, I've seen that, thanks 20:29
herlo np, good luck all 20:29
moixs themayor: include a discussion about pages we could delete 20:29
herlo feel free to hit me up with q's too 20:29
themayor herlo: would you want to help lead one of those session then maybe? 20:29
herlo moixs: deleting pages is a whole other discussion 20:29
herlo themayor: sure 20:29
moixs herlo: may I ask why? 20:30
themayor okay awesome, thanks, just reply to the thread and we will figure out the logsitics together i guess 20:30
herlo moixs: in #fedora-mktg, I'll explain so we don't detract 20:31
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themayor okay great 20:31
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themayor anyway, now, so we have tasks for f11 set more or less, we will add things to it, im sure, so i want to talk generally now 20:32
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themayor lets walk through a release cycle and try and enumerate what we need to do, just to get an inital list 20:32
themayor sound good? 20:32
fugolini yes 20:32
spevack go for it 20:32
herlo +1 20:33
themayor okay so one thing i was having kind of a struggle with was this 20:33
themayor lets start at 6 weeks prior to an alpha 20:33
moixs themayor: let me put my list quickly on the wiki so we can update it in real time 20:33
themayor okay sure 20:33
moixs it will be more efficient than doing it afterwards 20:34
spevack themayor: is 6 weeks prior to alpha basically the previous release? 20:34
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themayor its a little after isnt it? 20:34
themayor the alpha doesnt come out 6 weeks after GA 20:34
moixs Marketing/Schedule/Template 20:35
themayor unless im misunderstanding what you are asking 20:35
spevack themayor: you understand me 20:35
moixs here you go, can you update it during the meeting? 20:35
spevack carry on, sorry 20:35
themayor yeah one second the page is taking a while to refresh maybe a cache flush 20:36
spevack moixs: pretty good list, there 20:36
spevack what does " * Renew the news distribution network people list to always have " mean? 20:36
themayor he means have it update for this release 20:36
themayor meaning if there is stale info on it or someone we dont want to deal with 20:36
moixs spevack: Marketing/NewsDistributionNetwork 20:37
moixs yes, to avoid te ambassador effect :) 20:37
moixs I think it would be a good idea to ask people at every cycle if they still want the job 20:37
moixs 2-3 people per language, not hard to manage 20:38
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spevack ok, makes sense. I think we need a checkpoint other than "FUDCon" though, since there is not always guaranteed to be a FUDCon at the right time in the release cycle 20:38
themayor yeah thats why i said 6 weeks prior to alpha 20:39
spevack all the checkpoints should be at a certain date, X weeks/days before the release date 20:39
spevack themayor: yeah 20:39
* spevack updates the page 20:39
moixs Ok, change it to "Alpha -6 weeks" or something like that 20:39
themayor i like t-minus X weeks to alpha, beta, etc 20:39
spevack done 20:39
themayor alpha-6 20:39
moixs So, what do you see us doing in this period? 20:40
themayor okay also one VERY important thing 20:40
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themayor talking points 20:40
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themayor and have the first of the two meetings between us, fam, docs and art 20:41
themayor actually, mizmo, when do you start developing themes for a new release? 20:41
mizmo themayor, we already started 20:42
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mizmo themayor, we'll have a wallpaper in the beta 20:42
mizmo (a rough cut i might add) 20:42
mizmo (very rough) 20:42
themayor no i know, but im saying in the future, in general how many weeks before 20:42
mizmo it's changed every release. generally we've been pushing further and further back so we are as early as we can 20:43
mizmo be 20:43
* herlo thinks those points in time should be defined as 'Milestones' of their own maybe? 20:43
herlo and can be defined against alpha beta or GA? 20:43
themayor yes 20:44
themayor this is why we need to have those types of meetings 20:44
herlo that way, they can move a little... 20:44
themayor to iron out policy and process to coordinate 20:44
herlo right 20:44
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mizmo poelcat does have that all defined in his f11 schedule 20:45
themayor right we are trying to set up the same thing for marketing, as a general template for every release 20:45
themayor mizmo: for f12 is 6 weeks before alpha too late to sit down and talk about the artwork for you guys? 20:46
mizmo themayor, not if we have a release name by then 20:47
mizmo we did not for the f11 alpha -6 weeks 20:47
mizmo iirc 20:47
themayor ah ha, good point, art would naturally be tied to release name somewhow 20:48
moixs Ah yes, the release name is an important trigger we have an idea when this comes? 20:48
themayor how long before alpha is name voting done? spevack do you know? 20:48
spevack themayor: let me look back at F11 and i'll tell you in a few mins 20:49
fugolini ping 20:49
* herlo thinks we call that a Milestone: Official Codename Announced 20:49
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mizmo themayor, you'll probably want to look at poelcat's schedule, he has all these milestones on it 20:49
spevack themayor: voting began on Jan 5 20:49
spevack so about 1 month before alpha 20:50
themayor i did i dont remember seeing that 20:50
themayor let me look again 20:50
mizmo it should be, he had it out at fudcon boston not long ago 20:50
mizmo and i remember that being on there 20:50
themayor i was going to sit with poelstra regardless on our template schedule to make sure everything looks kosher to him 20:50
moixs I have this in the news archive page :p 20:50
spevack themayor: good idea 20:51
themayor mizmo: no im not denying youre right, im just blaming my bad memory and over-involvedness 20:51
moixs 12.01 20:51
herlo 20:51
mizmo its all good :) 20:51
moixs And the alpha was released on 06.02 20:51
herlo does that help? 20:51
themayor either way, that fits in the alpha minus 6 timeframe, so in a word, yes, its good to have that meeting then 20:51
themayor its perfect, right before we have the name, art should be gearing up, ambassadors are doing what they do and docs is working on retooling things for the next release 20:52
mizmo well we need an extra two weeks 20:53
mizmo the voting began on jan 5 20:53
mizmo the name was decided when? 20:53
herlo at fudcon 20:53
moixs 12.01 20:53
moixs or 01.12 in US notation 20:53
herlo ty 20:53
* herlo was gettign so confused :) 20:53
mizmo so the art team gets 2 weeks to figure out what to visually represent? 20:53
* mizmo doesnt remember what it was for f11 20:54
mizmo i think it was feb 2 20:54
mizmo so we did get 2 weeks 20:54
mizmo i mean, 6 weeks before the alpha, the first 4 weeks the art team is not going to know what they are doing for the artwork 20:54
mizmo and you were interested in 6 weeks before 20:54
themayor mizmo: you dont have to have decision or anything by then 20:55
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themayor its just like a pre-milestone metting to get coordinated between each other 20:55
themayor and to make sure if you need marketing to help with anything, that we are doing ti 20:55
themayor adn will be able to have it on schedule assigned to someone 20:56
spevack themayor: may I offer a suggestion? 20:56
mizmo themayor, ohhh okay 20:56
mizmo themayor, makes sense 20:56
themayor spevack: yes 20:56
spevack one of the things that we need to recognize here is that especially in the context of a release, and the schedule of tasks around a release 20:57
spevack there is a lot of coordination needed between marketing, websites, and artwork, in all directions. 20:57
spevack I think that it would be wise to have a checkpoint before Alpha, Beta, RC, Final for those three groups to all get on the same page 20:57
spevack thoughts from anyone? 20:57
moixs Add this task to the list then, a joint meeting to see if no group lags behind 20:58
fugolini nothing from my side, at list for this point 20:58
herlo +1 spevack 20:58
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themayor thats why i proposed two meetings 20:59
themayor one before alpha and one between beta and GA 20:59
themayor but if we want to we can add another 20:59
themayor spevack: thoughts? 20:59
* mmcgrath coughs 21:00
mmcgrath you guys almost ready or should we move to #fedora-admin? 21:00
spevack ah, sorry mike 21:00
spevack we'll move to #fedora-mktg 21:00
spevack themayor: sounds good, btw 21:00
fugolini ok 21:00
themayor yeah will that mess up the log, btw? 21:01
mmcgrath no worries 21:01
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spevack themayor: i'll work with moixs to make sure it all works out 21:01
moixs Started to log this channel too ;) 21:02
themayor you the man 21:03
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moixs Ok, do any of you have other bright ideas to put in the milestones? 21:05
spevack moixs: not right now, I need to think it over a bit with more of a clear head 21:05
fugolini sounds good. Maybe something from Release Events 21:05
fugolini but I don't want to overweight the milestones 21:06
fugolini "" 21:06
moixs What we should look at is the current position in the cycle 21:06
moixs We should assign ourselves to SIGs and features 21:06
fugolini ah ok 21:07
moixs Do you also think that a couple of days thinking on the mailinglist would be god? 21:07
themayor yeah but we need to make sure this happens on the list 21:07
fugolini maybe just push it and, let people the possibility to add something 21:08
themayor because every week we say that and im sure we all have good intentions but i feel like alot of us get hyped up at the meeting and then get too involved in other things later 21:08
moixs themayor: this is directly rlated to the thread you started today, do you want to continue it there or start a new one? 21:09
themayor fell free to start a new one 21:10
moixs ok ,I add it to my list 21:10
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moixs Do you see other things to talk about? 21:11
fugolini no 21:11
themayor moixs: in what context, now for the meeting? 21:12
moixs yes :) 21:12
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moixs So if we set the goal to rename pages on the wiki ans complete the schedule until next week, does it seem realistic? 21:13
moixs s/ans/and/ 21:13
fugolini From a outer POV i could say to try, but I'm not direct involved so, maybe the people involved could be more interested than me :) 21:14
themayor yes, i dont think anything will ever be set in stone 21:14
themayor but i think we have a good shot 21:14
themayor i think for the most part if i add stuff to the schedule, its done and then we need to port it to f11 21:15
moixs yes 21:15
themayor and take whats on jonrobs page to there 21:15
moixs exactly :) 21:15
moixs I guess the meeting is over? :) 21:16
themayor i guess so 21:17
fugolini so, if it so. Bye 21:17
themayor i was about to say, are we adjourned? 21:17
moixs yep, have a good night :) 21:17
fugolini you too 21:18
themayor thank you guys very muchj 21:18