Meeting:Marketing meeting 2009-07-07

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mchua Ok, marketing meeting time! 21:00
mchua (thanks moixs) 21:00
moixs I'm only logging this channel :p 21:00
mizmo yay 21:01
mizmo meetin time 21:01
mchua Sparks, ianweller, inode0, quaid, mizmo, jds2001, meetin' time! 21:01
mchua #startmeeting 21:01
fedbot Meeting started Tue Jul 7 19:01:27 2009 UTC. The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:01
fedbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 21:01
* mchua <3 meetbot 21:01
* Sparks is here. 21:01
* ianweller falls into the channel 21:01
mchua themayor is on vacation and Jack has asked me to fill in for him for the next two meetings. 21:01
* rislam here 21:01
mchua I'm learning on the job, so holler if I should be doing something different, moixs has already started coaching me on what goes on. 21:02
mchua sounds like the order of the day is to walk through our roadmap and get owners assigned to tasks. 21:02
mchua that would be https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_F12_schedule 21:03
mchua make your frantic changes to the wiki now. :) 21:03
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mchua I'd like to start with the 5 tasks on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_F12_schedule#The_6_weeks_leading_up_to_Alpha_.282009-07-07_-_2009-08-18.29 21:04
mchua since they're immediately coming up 21:04
moixs I already assigned myself to 3 "simple" tasks, the same I took for the F11 cycle. 21:04
mchua thanks, moixs! 21:04
moixs some wiki cleanup etc 21:04
mchua we still need people who are interested in updating the talking points, and representing Marketing at the Alpha Readiness meeting 21:04
* jds2001 here :) 21:05
mchua both are pretty big jobs 21:05
mchua any takers? 21:05
* stickster here 21:05
stickster sorry, late 21:05
moixs usually, the readiness meeting is taken by the marketing group leader, that is themayor 21:05
mchua hey stickster :) 21:05
jds2001 stickster: unacceptable :D 21:05
mchua Ok. The readiness meeting is on August 12, so that's plenty of time. 21:06
mchua I'll mark that as assigned to Jack and set a check-in date for when he gets back from vacation. 21:06
mchua Anyone for talking points? 21:06
stickster mchua: I'll definitely help with that one 21:07
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mchua stickster: thanks! when do you think a good milestone/date would be to check in again on talking points? 21:07
mchua welcome, oshan! 21:07
moixs As far as I remember, this task really starts when the feature freeze occurs, that is at the end of the month 21:07
mchua #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints 21:08
* stickster looks at calendar real quick-like 21:08
mchua #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Talking_Points 21:08
moixs https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/Schedule 21:08
mchua #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-releng-tasks.html 21:08
stickster I would say draft in place by July 28, final by August 4 if possible 21:08
mchua #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/Schedule 21:08
oshan thanks 21:08
mchua (thanks moixs) 21:09
mchua stickster: so noted! I'll update the wiki page right after this meeting - next check in date is 7/28. 21:09
mchua ...and lo, all the tasks have owners and dates. 21:09
mchua y'all rock. 21:09
mchua there are some other outstanding tasks and topics Jack and others wanted to bring up 21:10
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mchua i put them on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_F12_schedule#Not_yet_assigned_to_a_date since they're not specifically assigned to a part of the marketing release cycle yet. 21:10
mchua if anyone has stuff outside that list to bring up, holler - we'll start going through the list now. 21:11
mchua First up is $FooBar update - JonRob? 21:11
mchua ...is not here. Ok, I'll ping him on-list. 21:12
moixs Note that these kind of tasks were on another page before: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_tasks but we never really looked at ot...I'll merge the interesting ones in your list mchua. I'll archive the page then. 21:12
stickster mchua: Re: foobar... 21:12
mchua thanks, moixs. 21:12
mchua stickster: yessir? 21:12
stickster Something we should be keeping in mind as we go is that there's a great deal of crossover between what Foobar proposes, and what the new CMS can/will accomplish. 21:13
stickster The way I see it... 21:13
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stickster is that Foobar sets out a lot of Marketing-specific goals, and I think most or all of them can be achieved through an implementation via the CMS. 21:13
* mchua nods 21:14
mchua stickster, how do we make sure that we're not duplicating work? 21:14
stickster So part of the job is clarifying how to get to the objective using that vehicle 21:14
* mchua nods 21:14
stickster mchua: First and foremost, anyone involved in Foobar should be monitoring the CMS progression and participating 21:14
jds2001 does this have anything to do with the wpmu implementation as well? 21:15
stickster I believe the new "logistics" list is where a lot of that will happen. 21:15
mizmo stickster: i was thinking wp would be more appropriate than a cms for foobar... 21:15
moixs sounds like the ideal place yes 21:15
rislam +1 stickster 21:15
* ianweller was running along the same lines as mizmo but could see why it would be good to do foobar in the CMS... 21:15
jds2001 mizmo: i just sponsored 3 guys on the infrastructure side working on wpmu 21:15
stickster jds2001: I just read something this morning about WP-MU 21:16
stickster Is this a recent resurgence? The last I had heard about WP-MU was from some time ago, and in the meantime a lot of CMS work has either been slated or completed. 21:16
stickster That doesn't mean it's one versus the other. 21:16
moixs Can someone quicly recap what is going on with the different CMS'? 21:16
* moixs is a bit lost 21:17
jds2001 stickster: i think they're really complementary. 21:17
stickster They might be. 21:17
jds2001 but yeah, it's relatively new, but has traction 21:17
* mchua is as well - is anyone here closely following the CMS discussion? I've only been skimming the lists, not participating. 21:17
* jds2001 knows what CMS we've chosen (Zikula), but that's about it.... 21:18
* ianweller is confused now, and wasn't before :) 21:18
* ke4qqq is here and following that 21:18
ianweller um 21:18
ianweller oh yeah. ke4qqq knows 21:18
mchua ke4qqq! can you enlighten us? 21:18
stickster ke4qqq: Why don't you take over for a mo' :-) 21:18
ke4qqq sooooo we picked zikula 21:18
ke4qqq we've packaged zikula 21:18
ke4qqq we have made tremendous progress in packaging modules 21:19
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ke4qqq and their dependencies 21:19
stickster ke4qqq: And to clarify, the picking happened in cahoots with Infrastructure and others, after a long period of input, eval, and testing 21:19
ianweller upstream is very responsive, too 21:19
ke4qqq yes - and with an upstream that dedicated resources to making this a success 21:19
stickster upstream is actually collaborating *here* in project lists, incl. Docs and Infra 21:19
ke4qqq yes - and developing new modules for their CMS to meet our needs - we really couldn't have asked for better 21:20
ke4qqq IMO 21:20
moixs Where will it be used exactly? Will it replace another cms? 21:20
ke4qqq the first task is to replace docs.fp.o 21:20
stickster It actually fills a *void* at docs.fp.o which is currently a horrendously manual process 21:21
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ke4qqq docs.fp.o doesn't have a CMS as such - more a collection of scripts and potions along with a list of incantation one must chant 21:21
stickster 'zactly 21:21
mchua this is rockin'. ke4qqq, is there someone from Marketing - hopefully someone working on FooBar - that's actively participating in the CMS discussion? Or should we be more active about making sure there's a delegate? 21:21
ke4qqq FPC and F-Legal are also interested in using it - but we haven't mapped out that really well thus far - but it's after docs.fp.o makes the move 21:22
stickster mchua: That's one of the reasons I brought it up -- to ensure that JonRob and anyone else working on Foobar is aware of it and inserts into those discussions 21:22
stickster ke4qqq: I think that's happening on the "logistics" list, correct? 21:22
ke4qqq mchua: honestly I don't know - poelcat has kinda agreed to take the lead on coordinating the teams and I don't know if someone has stood up from marketing 21:22
mchua ke4qqq: That's good to know. 21:22
ke4qqq stickster: yes 21:22
stickster poelcat is coordinating things like a production schedule and some meetings 21:22
ke4qqq yes and our first meeting is tomorrow 21:23
* stickster just wants to make sure no one is misinterpreting that as John being "in charge" of Zikula 21:23
ke4qqq 11am Eastern 21:23
mchua ianweller, reading back through Jack's notes for the meeting (which, honestly, I should just forward to the marketing list - will do in a sec) it looks like you're in charge of coordinating with Infrastructure on what platform FooBar should use. 21:23
ianweller right. 21:23
mchua ianweller: is following the cms/zikula/logistics lists and discussions part of that? 21:24
ianweller yes. 21:24
moixs Hah, great to know that :) 21:24
* stickster pretty sure he saw Ian subbed to that list 21:24
* ianweller is on the logistics list 21:24
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stickster I think mchua's point about duplication of effort is a good one. This CMS is nothing like the Plone system that ended up more-or-less DOA. It's much easier to use productively and we have a tremendously responsive upstream to help us with details if needed. 21:25
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stickster (for those of you who weren't around then, Plone was just waaaay too complex for us to build any working community around it.) 21:26
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mchua ianweller: do you have the bandwidth to be the marketing/foobar <--> zikula/cms/logistics interface? 21:26
mchua ianweller: at least until we (read: you) have settled on a platform for foobar? 21:26
ianweller the we/you thing made me chuckle :) 21:27
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ianweller mchua: sure why not 21:27
mchua ianweller: rockin'. if you can make the meeting tomorrow and holler back to the marketing list what's going on, we can check in on this again next week - how's that sound? 21:28
ianweller sure 21:28
mchua ianweller: thanks! 21:28
ianweller  :) 21:28
mchua Other upcoming foobar items.... my list from Jack says we need people to get a platform beta up 21:28
mchua but that needs to wait for a platform to be chosen, so we'll skip that 21:29
mchua the other one is coordinating with Design... mizmo, when do you reckon we should start that? 21:29
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mizmo mchua: whenever you want 21:30
mchua hey, kassmodiah! we're mid-marketing meeting. ;) 21:30
mchua mizmo: would it be better for you folks to get started now, or do you want to wait until we have a platform chosen? 21:30
mchua I'm not sure how much the platform choice dictates the kind of design that can be done 21:30
mizmo mchua: might be better to wait for the platform since that does constrain the design & timelines 21:31
* mchua nods 21:31
mizmo mchua: i am hoping wp is chosen though because its a known quantity and we've done themes for it before 21:32
mchua okeydokey, will mark design as waiting on platform choice. thanks, mizmo! 21:32
mizmo yep 21:32
mchua ianweller: is there a particular date you want to nail down the platform choice by? 21:32
moixs this will give us more time to decide what we exactly want on it, too...this may also dictate the design 21:32
ianweller mchua: soon. 21:32
mchua (or rather, everyone else: is there a date ianweller *needs* to nail down a platform choice by?) 21:33
ianweller mchua: very soon. 21:33
stickster mizmo: Not to worry, we very well could end up with both of these running, esp. if they serve different needs 21:33
* stickster sees "blog platform" as very different from "general news and information delivery" 21:33
stickster (well, *potentially*) 21:33
* stickster shuts up so as not to derail things. 21:33
mchua ianweller: would august 1st (about 2 weeks before alpha) be too soon? 21:33
ianweller mchua: not at all. 21:34
mchua august 1st it is. 21:34
mchua anything else on foobar? 21:34
mchua it sounds like we're in pretty good shape, with design and alpha waiting for ianweller to choose us a platform by 8/1, and being a cms/zikula <--> marketing intermediary in the meantime 21:34
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mizmo stickster: well a blog is focused on chronologically based text and media offerings, a CMS is less time based no? 21:35
mchua ianweller: (not sure if there's a similar conversation for wpmu, which sounds like the other platform front-runner, but you know better than I do how to update the rest of the crew on that. ;) 21:35
ianweller wp-mu i do'nt think is the right choice for foobar 21:35
ianweller it just complicates things and we don't need multiple blogs 21:35
ianweller unless of course we want to run the entire thing under the blogs.fp.o umbrella 21:36
mchua ianweller: so the choice is zikula vs... what else is under consideration? 21:36
ianweller zikula, wp, wpmu. 21:36
ianweller and anything else anybody comes up with. 21:36
ianweller unless it's "drupal" in which case i will yell at them 21:36
mchua ianweller: ah, ok. maybe we should have this convo on the list so folks who can't make this meeting can chime in 21:36
mizmo ianweller: you only need one blog 21:37
ianweller mizmo: correct 21:37
mchua ianweller: the discussion on platform options, and the features/spec requests for what people want a foobar platform to have 21:37
mizmo ianweller: i set up a test instance on my own server to try out podcasting with the bluberry plugin 21:37
mizmo it makes it super easy to offer video audio and text feeds 21:37
ianweller +1 to pushing a week-long platform flamewar to the list ;) 21:37
ianweller kidding, i don't think it'll break out in fire 21:38
* stickster neither, so +1 21:38
* mchua was going for "calm, rational discussion" 21:38
mchua ...with creme brulee torch ;) 21:38
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mchua ...and creme brulee. 21:38
ianweller nom 21:38
ke4qqq nom indeed 21:38
* stickster notes that Jack's email (thanks mchua for re-]sending to list) notes some shorter deadlines for platform pickin' 21:39
mchua ianweller: i know you've got a lot of stuff on your plate, so how's this - I'll go through the logs of this chat when moixs posts them, pull current proposals onto a foobar wiki page, announce to the list that they can add ideas there, and then pass that space to you so you can use it for your platform pickin' notes 21:39
moixs (Crème brûlée) 21:39
ianweller mchua: you're awesome 21:39
mchua ianweller: right back atcha :) ok, we have a foobar gameplan. 21:39
mchua for that matter, we'll actually have a public foobar webpage and discussion, which are both Teh Winz 21:40
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mchua I'm pretty happy with Foobar status... any other foobar stuff? 21:40
* mchua likes saying foobar, though it sounds mildly dorky after a while 21:40
mizmo mchua: maybe foobar platform requirements writeup should be a to-do? 21:40
ianweller name brainstorming would be another thing to think about :) 21:40
stickster +10 21:41
mchua #action foobar name brainstorming 21:41
moixs yeah, at the moment, it's...furchtbar :D 21:41
mchua #action foobar platform requirements writeup 21:41
mizmo (and sorry if im derailing anything, im excited to write the theme which is why im diving into platform too much probably) 21:41
ianweller moixs: hahahha 21:41
jds2001 fruitbar 21:41
* mchua grins 21:41
ianweller mizmo: :) i'll be taking your excitement into account 21:41
mchua ok - all these things sound like they could benefit from a week of suggestions/brainstorming 21:41
mchua so how's this: i'll set up wiki pages for all of them, preseed them with all the email discussions I've seen and this chat's log, send that to the list so people have a week to chime in 21:42
mchua and then we can kick off next week's meeting with Brainstorming Fun Time 21:42
mchua and virtual, properly-accented crème brûlée 21:42
ianweller altgr ftw 21:43
mchua objections? 21:43
ianweller no 21:43
ianweller  :) 21:43
mchua sweet. 21:43
moixs Just don't create too many wiki pages or we'll get lost :p 21:43
ianweller hey 21:43
ianweller if you write a wiki page 21:43
mchua moixs just pointed out the time - we need to wrap up soonishlike 21:43
ianweller shove a category tag at the bottom 21:43
* ianweller goes to look up the right one 21:43
ianweller [Category:Project FooBar]] 21:44
mchua there are only two things left on the list 21:44
ianweller put that on all the foobar-related pages 21:44
* mchua will add that category tag to all those pages. w00t 21:44
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mchua Sparks is looking for a volunteer. 21:44
mchua The Docs team will do the long technical release notes, wants Marketing to either do or liason on a one-page shiny version suitable for non-geek consumption. 21:44
ianweller nose goes 21:44
* ianweller touches nose quickly 21:44
mchua er, that was a bad copy-pasted summary. 21:44
ianweller Sparks: where would the shiny version be located? 21:45
Sparks ianweller: Good question 21:45
mchua basically, docs wants to make 2 versions of the f12 release notes - the usual type we generate, and a nice short 1-page shiny more marketing-esque one. 21:45
moixs mchua: we have a page for that 21:45
Sparks ianweller: I guess that's for Marketing to decide 21:45
moixs let me find it 21:45
mchua labor and/or marketing <--> docs coordination needed. 21:45
mchua (docs folks who were actually at the FAD can correct me here.) 21:45
moixs https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour 21:46
moixs It's te tour 21:46
Sparks No, not the tour 21:46
Sparks The tour is a place to go to get more information... 21:46
Sparks I think what we were talking about is a reduced Release Notes. 21:46
Sparks It would augment the tour. 21:47
moixs yeah ok, but what is the exact point of having a reduced release note? 21:47
mchua Sparks: something on the order of http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Notes/8.2.0 - written for folks who haven't been hacking on f12 for the past 6 months? 21:47
moixs is the standard one really long? 21:47
Sparks because we've had requests for that. 21:47
moixs okay 21:47
ianweller Sparks: does this lead to a problem of having way too many documents to maintain? 21:47
Sparks moixs: VERY VERY LONG! 21:47
=-= knurd is now known as knurd_afk 21:48
Sparks ianweller: No... Yes... Maybe... 21:48
ianweller *bbzt* 21:48
* mchua notes that even with a ridiculous reading speed, an entire lunch-time was devoted to going through http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/ 21:48
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Sparks Basically... 21:48
stickster A shorter release notes would be able to take the place of the tour, and the F(n) Overview page, and probably a couple others 21:48
Sparks geeks want to know when gcc (and everything else) gets changed. 21:48
ianweller Sparks: here's what i'm envisioning. 21:48
Sparks non-geek users want to know about OO.o changes and FF and larger items. 21:49
* Sparks thinks this could be done in Publican easier... 21:49
ianweller merge the tour and the overview and the one-page notes idea into a group of nicely created pages that would be at docs.fp.o 21:49
ianweller complete with imagery 21:49
ianweller well 21:49
ianweller (maybe imagery) 21:49
* mchua looking at clock - we have 9 minutes left before the hour runs out; the other thing on my list is by default deferred, because JonRob isn't here (it was "sync up with News team," and has no deadline.) 21:49
Sparks I think pictures would be good 21:49
moixs This whole merger is also an idea I have, with the talking points 21:50
ianweller perhaps even quotes, and links to podcasts, by fedora hackers 21:50
ianweller you know 21:50
ianweller something a little more interactiv ethan text 21:50
moixs ok, that's project foobar :p 21:50
Sparks translate it? 21:50
ianweller moixs: well 21:50
mchua does anyone have anything else they'd like to bring up during this meeting, or can we continue to take the rest of our time to handle Sparks's request? 21:50
ianweller moixs: more specifically to a cliff notes to the releas enotes. 21:50
ianweller moixs: is there anyone in here after us? 21:50
ianweller er 21:50
ianweller mchua: is there anyone in here after us? 21:50
moixs no idea 21:50
mchua ianweller: no clue, but I do want to end the meeting on time, so we can all get off to Doing Stuff. ;) 21:51
* ianweller looks 21:51
ianweller mchua: aww on time meetings are lame ;) 21:51
moixs ^^ 21:51
stickster mchua: Clear after this hour 21:51
mchua Sparks, it sounds like we need more clarity on what exactly these reduced release notes are that you're asking for 21:51
ianweller clear until 1 UTC 21:51
ianweller here's what i suggest 21:51
ianweller i will talk to poelcat and ask him if the logistics list would be good to talk about cross-docs-and-marketing stuff like this 21:52
ianweller i.e. the one-page rel notes 21:52
stickster ianweller: Good call, my bet is that answer will be 'yes' 21:52
ianweller stickster: i would assume so too. 21:52
mchua +1 to that 21:52
ianweller and 21:52
* Sparks likes stickster and ianweller's ideas 21:52
ianweller and everyone in here who cares (all of you!) will go subscribe t othat list 21:52
Sparks mchua: this was an idea so nothing is in stone. 21:52
ianweller and we'll discuss there. 21:52
mchua #action ian to talk with polecat and ask if the logistics list would be good to talk about cross-docs-and-marketing stuff like one-page rel notes 21:52
ianweller and i'll ping both docslist and mktglist about it 21:53
ianweller (if a ping over IRC is "ping", is the similar over emial a "superping"?) 21:54
mchua Sparks: in the meantime, would you mind shooting an email to mktglist on what the idea is and what you're looking for from Marketing? (It sounds like you'd like Marketing to own the 1-pg notes and coordinate with Docs, but I'm not sure exactly what it is we'd own yet, and I could also be completely wrong.) 21:54
mchua ianweller: if a ping falls in a forest and nobody hears it.... 21:54
Sparks mchua: Yes and yes 21:54
ianweller mchua: s/forest/NOC/ :) 21:54
mchua #action Sparks to email to mktglist on what the 1-pg-docs idea is and what Docs is looking for from Marketing 21:54
Sparks mchua: If a ping gets dropped by the firewall... 21:54
mchua Sparks: thanks! 21:55
Sparks mchua: Thank you 21:55
mchua ...ok, the pun density is rising, and that's usually an indication that it's time to wrap up a meeting ;) 21:55
mchua anything else? 21:55
ianweller no. 21:55
* ianweller turns on his jetpack and crashes through the roof 21:55
* Sparks hopes he was wearing a helmut 21:55
mchua we've got milestones and dates and owners for all the f12 pre-alpha tasks, and all of our outstanding projects, so we're in *awesome* shape 21:56
* moixs opens a beer for a perfectly fine meeting 21:56
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* mchua joins moixs with a tumbler of port 21:56
mchua ...though I'm not sure whether that is the correct vehicle for said beverage 21:56
mchua ok, wrapping up in 3.... 21:56
* ianweller gives an A to mchua for leading a good meeting 21:56
* mchua puts on jetpack 21:56
mchua 2.... 21:56
* mchua puts on helmet 21:56
mchua 1... 21:56
ianweller * k r a s h * 21:56
* mchua blasts off 21:56
moixs Log in your mailbox in...3 minutes 21:57
mchua thanks, moixs! 21:57
mchua #endmeeting 21:57