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Revision as of 20:32, 21 January 2009 by Sparks (talk | contribs) (Added category)

Meeting

quaid<meeting id="Docs team"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
* stickster here<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
* Sparks is present<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
* ke4qqq here<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg -- <a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_21_January_2008">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_21_January_2008</a> -- calling of the role
* danielsmw will be more actine in 20-25 minutes.<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
* jjmcd is here<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
* quaid gives danielsmw some treatment options for his actine<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
danielsmws/ine/ive<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
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-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg -- <a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_21_January_2008">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_21_January_2008</a> -- Status on release notes for F11 : lead and
beats
quaidke4qqq: you want to talk about doc lead?<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
ke4qqqwe are looking for a lead for relnotes<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
ke4qqqdecent organizational skills and preferably some experience in cat herding<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
sticksterThere was a nibble from someone the other day, wasn't there?<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
ke4qqqwe've had a few<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
ke4qqqno one who has wanted to jump in front of the bus yet though<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
jjmcdIsn't it more like under the bus<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
ke4qqqjjmcd: that isn't until after release<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
sticksterWhen is the cutoff for a lead, and/or do we need a contingency plan for that possibility?<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
ke4qqqFUDcon technically<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
ke4qqqwe should have a contingency plan methinks<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
* jsmith sneaks in late<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
Sparkske4qqq: Push comes to shove, I'll do it.<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
sticksterI think the handoff is not as hard as people think<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
SparksThe beat writers from F10 have already been emailed with a request to update their Beat assignments and I've already started to see some <a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
activity on the page.
quaidwe also need some "lieutenants", in that the work always seems to require lots of hands closer we ge<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
* ke4qqq shoves Sparks <a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
sticksterYes, it shouldn't all fall on one person<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
ke4qqqis that enough?<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
quaidha!<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
jjmcdstickster: The whole conversion thing is still a total mystery to a lot of us  --  kinda scary<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
quaidhow about this ....<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
quaidwhat if Sparks takes lead for _just_ F11<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
quaidand jjmcd and others who might be interested<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
quaidcommit to a Lt. role<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
quaidand we rotate for F12<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
sticksterIt's really not a mystery, I think quaid has already made up notes on how to do each page<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
quaid?<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
Sparksquaid: Can we make it a mandatory rotation?  :)<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
sticksterSparks: That's not a bad idea<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
* herlo is here today<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
quaidSparks: +10<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
* jsmith agrees to be a "Wiki to DocBook leftenant"<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
* Sparks declares jsmith next.<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
jjmcdSparks: If you/Paul are willing to agree to a little conversion mentoring, I'll step up for 12<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
Sparksjjmcd: Works for me<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
sticksterHonestly, the only thing that makes things difficult at all is the transclusion people are using on the wiki pages. I think we should do <a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
away with all transclusions because they're too confusing to deal with.
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ke4qqqoutstanding!<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
sticksterIf we just have N number of flat pages, the conversion is a really simple (if slightly laborious) process.<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
sticksterIf we just have N number of flat pages, the conversion is a really simple (if slightly laborious) process.<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
sticksteroops, sorry<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
SparksThe page is at <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats,">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats,</a> by the way.<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
SparksIf the beat writer doesn't have a * next to their name that means they've accepted their beat for F11<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
sticksterjjmcd: I'm willing to do that meeting, btw<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
sticksterHave the beats now been scrubbed?<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
sticksterArchived, or however we intend to put the old content away?<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
Sparksstickster: The scrubbing is in progress<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
Sparksstickster: quaid said archiving past information was not necessary in most cases.<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
SparksI'm pretty sure all I did was reset the table and change F10 to F11 where applicable<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
quaidit is page renaming that has to happen next :)<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
quaideach beat needs to be assessed, either scrubbed clean or left with some content, depending on each case.<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
sticksterIYAM we should do page renaming, strip out all the content, remove transclusions, and start fresh.<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
stickster+1 quaid, that some pages might need to retain some content.<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
sticksterGood clarifications.<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
sticksterBut keep in mind that the page history holds on to the old content so we should not be timid about getting rid of material.<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
quaidright<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
sticksterIt's time for some bold moves here.<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
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sticksterTo me, the most important questions are, (1) is it clear to the community where and how they can write content into beats? and (2) is the <a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
process of producing the release notes as easy as possible for the people trying now to shoulder that work?
SparksIs it possible to have a template for all the beats to work off of?<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
quaidon the first one ...<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
quaidI think we need the pages renamed and categorized first<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
quaidthen we publicize like crazy<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
sticksterSparks: Probably not, because there are subdivisions that are going to be particular to each beat's subject matter... just my opinion<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
quaidas for 2 ...<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
SparksI noticed that the Feature pages have a template with embedded notes on completing the form.  That would make it real easy.<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
sticksterquaid: Clarification, renamed, categorized, and flattened (removing transclusions)<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
quaidit could be easier, and we have time to work on that before we need it to be easier.<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
quaidharveybetty was working on that, for example<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
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sticksterSparks: But the factors people have to document in that process are set and well-bounded, which is not true about release notes.<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
SparksOkay<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
jjmcdIt would be good, though, if we could somehow push the RNs toward being a little more even, maybe a template would help but I'm a little from <a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
Missouri on that
sticksterSparks: In some cases, the contributor need to provide a command for a temporary workaround. In others, they need to explain a new <a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
feature that's superseded an old one. Or indicating a deprecation... it's pretty wide-open
SparksSo give them a sandbox and let them go.<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
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sticksterSparks: Yup, all we need to provide is "Please start your section with an == h2 == and go to town"<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
quaidyeah<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
Sparksstickster: Okay, well we can do that.<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
quaidthat might be enough of a template :)<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
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SparksOkay, I'll look at that this evening and see what needs to be done.<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>
ke4qqqcan we offload all of the feature stuff to the owners (or their delegates) and remove that from our plate altogether?<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>
SparksWe can also change the page names at the same time and get them in the proper category and such.<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>
quaidke4qqq: I fear we'll not see the content then<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>
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quaidke4qqq: in reality, we do already to an important degree<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
quaidke4qqq: the feature pages have a relese notes section they need to fill out<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
quaidwe just have to suck that in<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
ke4qqqsurely the feature owners want their feature covered....if not - perhaps we don't cover it.<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
ke4qqqahhhh<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
ke4qqqthat's a bit easier<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
jjmcdThe problem, of course, is that "features" cover maybe 10% of the changes<a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a>
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jjmcdAlthough maybe my perception is colored by having worked on devtools<a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a>
quaidno, it's true<a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a>
SparksOkay, so let's set up the pages with proper names, put all the pages in the proper category, and link those pages onto the main page and <a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a>
start advertising.
quaidfeatures are only highlighted groupings of changes<a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a>
quaidbut we cannot expect to get all changes in a release notes set<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
quaidSparks: +1<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
jjmcdAlthough for developers, even minor changes can be pretty important<a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a>
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Sparksquaid: I can get those pages setup this evening.  Shouldn't take long.  Then we'll be ready.<a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a>
* danielsmw has upgraded from an ipod to a laptop, and can now participate.<a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a>
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quaidok, ready to move on from release notes?<a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a>
Sparks+1<a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a>
sticksterbam! pow!<a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a>
ke4qqq+1<a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a>
jsmith+0.98 (after inflation)<a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a>
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herlo+1<a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a>
jjmcdlets go<a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a>
* herlo points out that jsmith's version of inflation shows him having less money rather than the prices going up :)<a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a>
jsmithherlo: Well, it depends on whether you're a spender or a saver :-p<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: docs mtg -- meeting time change proposal<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
* jsmith mumbles "meetings are *never* convenient"<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
quaidtrue dat<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
herloit seems everyone is trying to change meeting times<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
quaidbut this current time was made by a bunch of people who are mainly no longer here :)<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
* jds2001 urges docs not to change to Friday's at 2PM :D<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
quaidheh<a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a>
SparksSo I'm thinking Friday at... 2?<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
jds2001lol<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
jjmcdWould Friday at 4 be better?<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
quaidSparks: one thing is, I think we cannot *fix* a new time until we have a new steering committee to fix it for<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
herlo+1<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
jds2001unless you want FESCo clash :D<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
herlookay not really ^^<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
Sparksquaid: True<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
ke4qqqFDSCo v. FESCo - on pay per view?<a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a>
jsmithke4qqq: But if we win, do we have to wear silly belts with belt-buckles the size of dinner plates?<a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a>
SparksJust think about moving the meeting for a future discussion.<a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a>
ke4qqqjsmith: no just larger gold-encrusted pocket protectors<a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a>
quaidok, so we're not against a new meeting time, per se, right?<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
Sparks+1<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
jsmith+1<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
sticksterNot against, +1<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
jjmcd+1<a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a>
sticksterWe can again use that standard wiki matrix to fix a time<a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a>
Sparksstickster: Already got something in the works although quaid might have a better solution.<a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a>
quaidno you got the right thing<a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a>
quaid<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FDSCo_meeting_matrix">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FDSCo_meeting_matrix</a><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a>
quaidSparks made that and we can start populating it<a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a>
sticksterawesome.<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
quaidwe can choose to later weed out anyone who is not on a steering committee, although I think getting the widest group regardless is the goal<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
Sparksyes<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
quaidok, then ...<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
quaidanything else on this 'un?<a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a>
Sparksnope<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: docs mtg -- leadership (re)fresh<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
quaidanyone not read my email to the list?<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
quaidif you have ... any reason you haven't commented on it? ;-D<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
jjmcdwhich email to which list?<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
quaidjjmcd: "Leadership (re)fresh" to f-docs-l<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
jjmcdahhhhh<a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a>
* Sparks commented on it<a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a>
quaid<a href="http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-January/msg00109.html">http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-January/msg00109.html</a><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a>
* jjmcd wondered whether it was moot if there weren't candidates still<a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a>
quaidoh, interesting viewpoint<a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a>
quaidI think we have at least a half-dozen people who have clearly showed leadership ability/skills and could be the Chair<a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a>
quaidand that means at least that many who could be steering<a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a>
quaidin fact, many of you _are_ steering without the formal recognition.<a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a>
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jjmcdCertainly if we can have a meaningful election that is the best course<a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a>
quaidwe have to be honest -- voter turnout may still suck<a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a>
ke4qqqvoter turnout in general does<a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a>
jjmcdPerhaps we could lock up the swamp water supplier<a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a>
jsmithEven if voter turnout is low... it's better to at least go through the motions of having an election<a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a>
jjmcdWe seem to have a lot of marketing issues - I wonder if we can identify some new outlets<a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a>
jjmcdRoger that jsmith<a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a>
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ke4qqqI don't think there is really any alternative<a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a>
Sparksjjmcd: That should be the first thing the new chair does.<a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a>
quaidyeah, we need elections regardless of voter turnout :)<a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a>
sticksterI'm not for a steering committee, as much as I am for an accountable Docs leader.<a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a>
* stickster sent overdue response to list<a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a>
ke4qqqstickster: will you explain why?<a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a>
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ke4qqqor should I read that in your email?<a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a>
sticksterke4qqq: Either way is fine! :-)<a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a>
sticksterI simply think that our core group that participates on a regular basis are the obvious choices for a steering committee.<a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a>
sticksterThe number of votes is likely to be very small.<a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a>
quaidhmm<a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a>
quaidwe could elect a leader who appoints a steering committee?<a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a>
SparksHow many in the committee?  <a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a>
sticksterI think there's no point in appointments, when the choices could just as easily be "Would you help me by being responsible for Task X?".<a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a>
ke4qqqat the same time, what SPOF does that introduce??<a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a>
SparksI don't think we need more than a handful of people.<a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a>
ke4qqqI tend to agree with that logic<a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a>
ke4qqqbut understand there is arequirement for us to have some elected leadership<a href="#t14:43" class="time">14:43</a>
sticksterYes, there should be someone leading the Docs team, to be certain. I compare this to the Artwork team or the BugZappers, where there is <a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a>
no SCo, but plenty is getting done.
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sticksterFESCo on the other hand is in charge of an exceptionally large slice of strategy.<a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a>
SparksWhat is the election requirement?  Just a leader or what?<a href="#t14:44" class="time">14:44</a>
sticksterConsensus is good enough in this case, as long as it's obtained through the list and not just the people who showed up here for the IRC <a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
meeting.
sticksterAgain, this is all my opinion as a Docs contributor.<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
jjmcdI wonder how many nascent leaders are out there on the list but don't join the meetings because IRC is too old-fashioned, or too-geeky or <a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
whatever
quaidit's fair view, though<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
sticksterI'm perfectly willing to be shouted down if a lot of people disagree.<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
quaidwe did steering committee back then because that was the best way<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
quaidthings have evolved in the overall project, here too<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
stickster(or even a few people, for that matter)<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
quaidthe main reason<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
sticksterquaid: Right.<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
quaidfor a steering committee formality<a href="#t14:45" class="time">14:45</a>
quaidis to give people "authority" to speak "for docs"<a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a>
quaidand I think we have shown that people don't need that title to speak authoritatively<a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a>
sticksterI agree with that. The point of a meritocracy is that the authority comes from experience and accomplishment.<a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a>
quaidotoh, the "one leader" does benefit from the title.<a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a>
sticksterExcept in my case, where someone was fool enough to hire me instead.<a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a>
quaidcf. ianweller before and after "wiki czar" title -- he sounds more authoritative, etc.<a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a>
quaid(IMO)<a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a>
* jsmith adds to what quaid just said, by saying "... and then jsmith joined the steering committee, and it went to pot"<a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a>
jjmcdyeah, good point.  To a degree, doesn't the doc lead do that<a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a>
quaidstickster: actually, not to belabor, but I think your hiring was a perfect example of meritocracy in action<a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a>
sticksterRight, and Ian got that title through consensus and the recognition that he was putting a lot of energy into making the wiki better.<a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a>
sticksterquaid: Stop with the flattery! (your check's in the mail though)<a href="#t14:47" class="time">14:47</a>
quaidhmmm ... good stuff this<a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a>
quaidso where to next?<a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a>
sticksterSo again, my point is just that as long as Docs has an accountable leader, selected by consensus of people who participate in the work, I <a href="#t14:48" class="time">14:48</a>
think the potential is to create less of an artificial barrier between "we who decide" and "we who do li'l tasks"
quaidstickster: so you are saying consensus is ok rather than hold an election?<a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a>
sticksterYes.<a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a>
* quaid is concerned about how we do that and draw the line, etc.<a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a>
jjmcdConcensus can be kind of mushy<a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a>
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ke4qqqstickster: is that ok with the sub-project guidelines<a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a>
ke4qqqI though election was a must?<a href="#t14:49" class="time">14:49</a>
sticksterke4qqq: I'm talking specifically about *not* continuing as a subproject<a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a>
sticksterOops, scratch that.<a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a>
sticksterThat was the mistaken thought I had in the shower<a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a>
sticksterthis morning... then I realized I was thinking about it the wrong way.<a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a>
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sticksterA subproject has to have clear governance. Not "this particular governance model X."<a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a>
jjmcdAre there other distros that do docs better that we can learn from?<a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a>
stickster<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Defining_projects#Fedora_Projects">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Defining_projects#Fedora_Projects</a><a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a>
quaidjjmcd: heh, yeah, RHEL, but I don't want to learn from that model :)<a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a>
sticksterjjmcd: A question asked since time immemorial... we should constantly be looking at other projects and learning something (good or bad) <a href="#t14:51" class="time">14:51</a>
from them
jjmcdAdmittedly, I haven't looked very hard<a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a>
* stickster has a hard stop in a few minutes, so I'm shutting up now<a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a>
* stickster waits for the market to devalue his $0.02<a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a>
quaidok, so the deal is ...<a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a>
quaidwe have a current suspension of the existing Docs rules<a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a>
quaidDocs defined for itself how to fulfill the governance requirement.<a href="#t14:52" class="time">14:52</a>
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quaidwe are free to decide how to proceed, within the guidelines of having a clear governance for the rest of the world to see.<a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a>
quaidwhat I'd like to do ...<a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a>
quaidis decide _on_list_ how to proceed:<a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a>
quaid* elections or no<a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a>
quaid* steering or no<a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a>
quaid* sig or sub-proj<a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a>
quaidetc.<a href="#t14:53" class="time">14:53</a>
quaiddoes that make sense?<a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a>
Sparks+1<a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a>
jjmcdYes, let's suck in some other voices<a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a>
Sparksquaid: I think you already asked those questions in your email to the list.  Maybe a poke to the community would help get some responses.<a href="#t14:54" class="time">14:54</a>
jjmcdThis clear enumeration of the issues is helpful<a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a>
quaidcan someone else ..<a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a>
quaidtake a stab at explaining this via the list?<a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a>
ke4qqqlets just say if there are no objections we are appointing Jono Bacon head of the docs project......would that get a response? that said I <a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a>
like the clear delination - though I think the no answers are messier than no - because then something else must be defined
Sparksquaid: On it<a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a>
quaidSparks: thx<a href="#t14:55" class="time">14:55</a>
Sparkske4qqq: Who is going to say that?<a href="#t14:57" class="time">14:57</a>
quaidok, time runneth short<a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a>
ke4qqqyou can - didn't you say you were on it?<a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a>
quaidI think we have what we need on this topic, yes?<a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a>
Sparks+1<a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a>
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ke4qqqyes<a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a>
jjmcdyep<a href="#t14:58" class="time">14:58</a>
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: docs mtg - cms update real quick like<a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a>
quaidtwo voices so far:<a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a>
quaidKing_InuYasha has been talking with us on list and in IRC<a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a>
quaidand danielsmw (iirc) and basil (via list) have expressed interest<a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a>
quaidin supporting any PHP solution.<a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a>
danielsmwyup.<a href="#t14:59" class="time">14:59</a>
quaid(with Drupal up on the list somewhere.)<a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a>
* herlo thinks Drupal is a fine choice if someone knows it well<a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a>
quaidherlo: just duck when jsmith and ianweller are in the room,that's all<a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a>
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quaidthe eyeballs popping from forks is pretty gross.<a href="#t15:00" class="time">15:00</a>
jsmithherlo: I refuse to use Drupal.  If we go with Drupal, I promise not to touch it.<a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a>
* jjmcd doesn't much care for drupal but is all for it if someone is excited about it<a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a>
danielsmwi've expressed interest in drupal before<a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a>
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quaidok, that's the status :)<a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a>
jsmithherlo: Can I be more clear?  I'd rather lick a toilet seat than use Drupal for the CMS<a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a>
danielsmwbut never really for a good reason<a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a>
danielsmwso i'm wondering<a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a>
danielsmwwhile we have some people here<a href="#t15:01" class="time">15:01</a>
herlojsmith: start licking<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
danielsmwwhat reasons should we avoid drupal, so that we can add these to a list of characteristics we _should_ look for?<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaidok<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
danielsmws/should/shouldn't/<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaidsince we are over our hour ...<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaidcan we take the CMS discussion<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaidto #fedora-docs<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
danielsmw+1<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaidwith the note for the record that ..<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaid"more discussion on list"<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
jjmcdR<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaidok then<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaidR?<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
herloI've stated my preference for WordPress and argue that it's a good CMS, but Drupal can work.  I will take this offline, and jsmith, I love <a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
you man!
jjmcdRoger<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
quaidcool<a href="#t15:02" class="time">15:02</a>
jsmithdanielsmw: Security record, security record, and it's a resource hog<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
jsmithdanielsmw: Also, it doesn't play nicely with PostgreSQL<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
jjmcdPefformance is my main beef<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
quaidok, discussion continues on #fedora-docs s'il vous plait<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
herlomoving along?<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
jjmcdOui<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
quaidclosing I think yes<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
quaid5<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
quaid4<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
quaid3<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
quaid2<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
quaid1<a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>
quaid</meeting><a href="#t15:03" class="time">15:03</a>