ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2008-feb-25

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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-02-25

Rebuild status

  • going fairly smoothly
  • the triage team is taking good swaths of those and isolating the build failures and sorting them into buckets (either compile failure, or other failure)

Orphan package removals

  • propose those orphans that haven't been picked up be blocked from dist-f9 today
  • gives some folks time to realize "oh that was important, I'll take it over" before we hit beta freeze
  • warren will work on analyzing the orphan list

Release Engineering Representative

Discussion of Custom Spins

  • 11 more in the pipeline
  • See IRC log

Misc

  • setting up a meeting tomorrow to talk about the fedora build system instability and get some time lines for fixing what we can, etc.

IRC Transcript

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<tr id="t12:59"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call</td><td><a href="#t12:59" class="time">12:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ping notting jeremy poelcat jwb spot warren poelcat rdieter wwoods lmacken</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:00"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren here</td><td><a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:00"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy  </td><td><a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:01"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods nom nom granola nom nom</td><td><a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat here</td><td><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><td class="action" colspan="2">* notting is here</td><td><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, we've got a few things to discuss so lets get started.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:02"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Rebuild status</td><td><a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">that went surprisingly well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">All the first round of builds completed on Friday</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">early Friday morning in fact</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and all the bugs for the failures were filed later that day</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the triage team is taking good swaths of those and isloating the build faiulre and sorting them into buckets (either compile failure, or other failure)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">lots of fixes have been happening, and most of the buildsystem generated failures have been resubmitted</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">all in all this has been one of the smoother rebuilds from the submission and followup side of things.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I want to clean up the scripts I used for more general purpose and check them into the rel-eng git tree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">GCC 4.3 rebuilds have been a "would be nice" sort of feature so I'm not going to sweat it too much if things aren't rebuilt by the beta or even the release.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(unless of course the failure to rebuild results in a failure to fix some other bug or blocker)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">related topic, did you see someone's request for a package for the bump script?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, I'm fine with it going into a package.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">probably makes sense in rpmdevtools</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">although it is pretty Fedora specific</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">fedora-packager?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">something like that, yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">wwoods: we have other pretty Fedora specific things in rpmdevtools so I don't think it really matters much</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">makes sense</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">overall i don't think many of the other rel-eng scripts should really be "packaged"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nod</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">ok, sorry to derail</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">typically they're mostly references to start from in order to accomplish your specific task</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and that doesn't make much sense as a package outside of examples/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anywho, the fixes will continue, and folks like jeremy have offered to look at the real hard compile issues.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jakub seems to be poking at issues that get reported to -devel</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">gcc43errors is the bug alias that the triage folks are putting the actual compile issue bugs on</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think at this point, releng can just let this work itself out naturally</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">moving on...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Orphan package removals</td><td><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: you were running with this I think, what's the current status?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, there were relatively few and many were picked up</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, come back me in about 10 minutes, i'll check it now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: ok.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Making releases a snap</td><td><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">stickster has called for folks to report to him on SOPs for doing releases</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and we owe him a report</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">i'm sort of confused as to what he wants</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">let me pull up the archived mail</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">f13: he wants a point person</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-February/msg00136.html">https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-February/msg00136.html</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">so we can have a concall in advance of the beta to make sure all the groups are in sync</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">and dependencies are handled in order and in time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so this is just for beta this time, and we'll do it again for PR and Final?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">hm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">is he going to include arch teams?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that's a fun question</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">theoretically secondary arch teams move at their own schedule</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and aren't tied directly to our release dates</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">in theory we do it for all of the releases... and each time it gets faster and more organized :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">i nominate f13</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">So unless somebody else wants to volunteer, I'll handle this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">gee thanks jwb (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">does anyone else really make sense?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">probably not the first time around</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">you *are* kind of the guy who turns the handcrank</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">if you'd like, i can attend as well if possible</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I guess the theory is that we can take notes and then, eventually, other people will know how the sausage gets made</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">though it would be more of a "listen in" kind of thing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, I can't login to the database to do a query</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: I saw.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, I'll take it this time.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:16"><td class="action" colspan="2">* f13 adds another note to the todo list</td><td><a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Orphan package removals</td><td><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">lets get back to this one for a moment.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">since we're nearing very close to the Beta freeze, I propose those orphans that haven't been picked up be blocked from dist-f9 this week, today.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that'll give some folks time to realize "oh that was important, I'll take it over" before we hit beta freeze</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">agreed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: that seem sane to you?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">seems ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">umm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">the orphan list seems to have grown since last week</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, can we warn with a fresh list later today with thursday the target removal day?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, I need a little time to analyze the new list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren not sure if his SQL query is correct</td><td><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: sure, that's fine.  This week though.  I don't want to rip off the bandaid and immediately freeze the tree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, nod</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, the freeze next week is a hard freeze?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13,  or a slushy one like F8's?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the freeze on the 4th is</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">uh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">honor system or manual tagging?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">what is your definition of 'slushy' ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Remember last time around we used honor system?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we did?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Maybe that's the wrong word</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we branched and told people if they really want to build for F8, build from the branch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">huh?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">otherwise if they built from devel it would go to dist-f9</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">isn't branching optional at freeze point?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: I think we're talking about two different freeze points</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">grr, can't load the wiki</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, I thought next week's freeze is for Beta and feature freeze, and the wiki said people can optionally branch CVS at that point.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">regardless, the freeze on the 4th is hard, you have to request tags from releng</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">That sounds fine, but when was that decided?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/Overview#head-7dfffd8d508d35c931d4b7cc519fce1b00019e4c">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/Overview#head-7dfffd8d508d35c931d4b7cc519fce1b00019e4c</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I thought the F8's version of this "freeze" worked out extremely well compared to previous freezes that operated in a manner similar to what you are saying happens next week.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: F8's only works if we allow for branching</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and it really only works at the tail end of a development cycle, not in the middle of it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">when do we allow branching this time?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we never decided at what point between beta release and final freeze we'd start allowing for branches.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I thought the schedule said at beta freeze point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I could be wrong, but I can't load it to find out</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">oh, <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule</a>  March 13th allow branching</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">nm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Overview still says:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Early (optional) CVS branching</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Right after Beta release or sometime between Beta and Pre-release, we allow for early branching of software. This allows developers to check in new features and otherwise unstable changes that would not be suitable to introduce to the current release.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but I guess the schedule took that as 'right after beta release'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but in reality that's going to be very very early for a lot of software</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">OK, sounds good.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:27"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren works on analyzing the orphan lits</td><td><a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, moving on.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Jeremy's spin writeup</td><td><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">shamefully, I haven't taken the time to read this fully through yet.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: have you?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, i told jeremy i would reply today.  i still intend to</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">it'd be nice to get some feedback so that I can post it for more people to see</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">so I can get spoleeba off my back :-P</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jeremy, you'll have something this afternoon from me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jwb: sounds good, thanks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I really wanted to get to it before the meeting, finding out why rawhide fell over took too much time though :/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I will also get you feedback today, soon even, so that you can send it out today</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Discussion</td><td><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">sounds like a plan</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">speaking of spins</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">i've done two now for mether.  xfce and hindi</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><td class="action" colspan="2">* f13 gives jwb the floor</td><td><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">he has like 4 more queued up (or some number)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">all localized</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">oh damn</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">the orphan list has grown</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">125 packages now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">i started a SOP for doing spins, but it's empty now.  i intend to fill it out with this next one</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jwb: only 4?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">no, more.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jwb counts</td><td><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">oh wait, some of these were already removed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">11 more</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I got a scary message from spevack today, where he wants to do a localized spin for wherever we have an event</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that's going to lead to a /lot/ of spins, just for lang selections</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I for one, don't like this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">we have 12 total right now.  1 done, 11 to go</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">just for .in</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">(i think)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it's a lot of duplicated content, it's a lot of releases to try and keep track of the sources of for GPL reasons, it's a lot of QA to go through, and it'll start making our download pages rather cumbersome</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">one of them is for Srilanka</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">ugh. I'm gonna need a team of hax0rs to work on automating testing live images if we're going to do this much stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">this is an illustrative example of why we need to review jeremy's doc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">because the people in this meeting will not scale to test all of these, nor _can_ we in some cases</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">i don't speak/read hindi, etc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right.  I think we said we wanted to see interesting things folks have done with spins, and I'm just not sure of "only include my local language" is all that... interesting.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">or rather, we wanted to /host/ interesting things</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: then we need to fix livecd-creator</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jwb: right - there needs to be docs and tools for letting the *spinners* test their spins</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jwb: multiple langauges, selectable</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">any plan that involves dumping more work on rel-eng or QA = fail</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: wouldn't that be gdm in F9?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: ??? GDM in *F8* does that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">personally, i have no issues mashing buttons to churn out isos and throw them on spins.fp.o</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">wouldn't that be that gdm has allowed it for a long long time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, so I'm confused</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">these 20 different spins a) set a default timezone and /etc/sysconfig/i18n LANG b) occasionally adjust the translation sset</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> pingou</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: yeah, I just have issues with those carrying the Fedora name/logo without anybody doing QA on them, ensuring that they actually install, that no regressions creeped in due to using newer code sets, finding a place to stash the srpms used (!!) for GPL reasons, etc...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">pingou: that's not necessary in this meeting, just blurt it out.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> pingou</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">there is the language but also the keyboard that is interesting to changes between the different livecd</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">pingou: i stand by my statement - 10-20 livecd images that only differ by 1% is wasteful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">seems that creating another 700~ meg download for that is.... silly</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">unless we work out some magic jigdo way of storing them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, i'm not disagreeing.  i think that's where we need to go back to the board and say "please clarify why these are official spins"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> pingou</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">what about using the local mirror ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">pingou: in many cases "what local mirror?"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">notting: xdelta!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> pingou</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">f13, something like storing the french version on the french mirror, the dutch on the dutch...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jeremy, will xdelta work when the changes are within the compressed squashfs image?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">pingou, if they have a local mirror, why can't they do the spin themselves?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> pingou</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">jwb, they start to do it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">pingou: we don't have a 1:1 mirror:country relationship</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">we could add links to those</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">warren: dunno.  someone is welcome to try :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jeremy, the pyjigdo guys were talking about making jigdo uncompress and recompress squashfs images with jigdo...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">i don't think we're going to make a huge amount of progress on this today.  i just wanted to point at where i am with the spins stuff and raise the bigger question</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jeremy sticks his fingers in his ears and goes "la la la la la la la la"</td><td><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">warren: that sounds fraught with failure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I just mentioned it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">ok... so the orphan list has definitely grown since last week</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><td class="action" colspan="2">* f13 has yet to see pyjigdo in action, for it's original purpose, let along feature creep</td><td><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">er alone.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: thanks, that does help</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">looks like I'll have a complete list of orphans in about 30minutes hwen te script finishes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">(koji is really slow now)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, really, there is no need to be so down on them, they are free to work on whatever they want.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> mbonnet</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">warren: it's working fine for me, seems snappy, and neither the database nor app server are loaded</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">mm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> mbonnet</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">warren: sure you're not having connection issues?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">mbonnet, abadger1999 mentioned having issues coming in through RH VP</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">mbonnet, RH VPN</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">f13, i've used pyjidgo.  it worked fairly well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">mbonnet, I seem to as well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">warren, why are you talking to koji?  shouldn't orphans be done from pkgdb?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: I'm not being down, it's just we're a week away from the beta freeze and I haven't seen a single patch for being able to do jigdo stuff for F9.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb, pkgdb knows about orphaned packages, but not if they were already removed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">ah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">nor deltarpms... jeremy ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">abadger1999 and jdieter were working on deltarpms?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">oh wait</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">no</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">jwb: I haven't had anything to do with any of the work for deltarpms this time around</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">lmacken</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">k, sorry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb, most of the deltarpm work is needed in bodhi, with a little rel-eng scripting after that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e"> abadger1999</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">warren: Signing me up for extra work again? ;-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">abadger1999, maybe.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">abadger1999: we try! :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sadly nothing tends ot be 'little' when it comes to releng scripting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">warren, so we'd only target updates with that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jwb, that's where most of its usefulness is no?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, relatively little compared to the bodhi work</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yes.  i was just checking.  if so, it's fairly disjoint from being tied to F9 (or any other release)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">except that unleashing deltas upon a stable release without any testing during rawhide sounds like a fun event.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">grr, you're right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">FYI SUSE has no build system integration and just runs createdeltarpm or whatever post update generation</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mether: they also don't have a very public mirror system and are able to control that a lot better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mether: um, that would still be 'deltarpm work needed in bodhi'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, would you accept adding the deltas to rawhide after beta is released?  Only thing we're missing is a defined place to put them in the tree right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> mether</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">notting: they run a cron job or something async</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: honestly I don't know what all is missing, I haven't talked to anybody about it in a while.  Rather, nobody has talked to /me/ about it in a while.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">isn't that what this meeting is for?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">notting: you'd think that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">who's the feature owner?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">OK, it seems to me that the only thing missing to add deltas to rawhide is a defined place to put it in the tree?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">sort of me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jdieter has been taking point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: so then we have patches to mash to generate deltas, and huristics on what to generate deltas against, and a way of dealing with signed packages vs unsigned and...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13, is mash the right place to put it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: mash is what creates rawhide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">or a cron job does really</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so patches to the cron would also work I suppose.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">what's the source repo for this?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I'll point this at jdieter</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I can work on this after feature freeze myself, but not now.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">git.fedorahosted.org/git/releng</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm not going to be too keen on working on this after feature freeze though.  I really really want to land F9 on time and I don't want to make things more unstable in the rawhide creation land</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">The sad thing about this is, there is no reason why deltas absolutely need to be done during tree creation.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">they can be async</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">it does make it crappy for mirroring though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I'll talk with jdieter</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I'm afraid this will slow down rawhide creation</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, our mirroring system is fragile enough as it is.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">ah, orphan list is complete</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685"><a href="http://paste.ausil.us/284">http://paste.ausil.us/284</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I'll send a warning to the lists that these packages and anthing that depends on them will be removed Thursday afternoon if they are not owned.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">ok?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">xmlrpc...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">that seems... important</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">I DID warn people last week</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">warren: good.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:56"><td class="action" colspan="2">* warren sending</td><td><a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anything else this week?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">what about the meeting you wanted to setup with the mikes and mark on koji?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">or is that outside the scope of this meeting?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">kinda outside I think.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t13:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">k</td><td class="time"><a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but for those listening at home, we're setting up a meeting tomorrow to talk about the fedora buildsystem instability and get some timelines for fixing what we can, etc. etc..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Ok, calling it, thanks folks.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr>
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