ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2008-feb-25

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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-02-25

Rebuild status

  • going fairly smoothly
  • the triage team is taking good swaths of those and isolating the build failures and sorting them into buckets (either compile failure, or other failure)

Orphan package removals

  • propose those orphans that haven't been picked up be blocked from dist-f9 today
  • gives some folks time to realize "oh that was important, I'll take it over" before we hit beta freeze
  • warren will work on analyzing the orphan list

Release Engineering Representative

Discussion of Custom Spins

  • 11 more in the pipeline
  • See IRC log

Misc

  • setting up a meeting tomorrow to talk about the fedora build system instability and get some time lines for fixing what we can, etc.

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call<a href="#t12:59" class="time">12:59</a>
f13ping notting jeremy poelcat jwb spot warren poelcat rdieter wwoods lmacken<a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
* warren here<a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
* jeremy <a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
jwbhere<a href="#t13:00" class="time">13:00</a>
* wwoods nom nom granola nom nom<a href="#t13:01" class="time">13:01</a>
* poelcat here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
* notting is here<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
f13ok, we've got a few things to discuss so lets get started.<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Rebuild status<a href="#t13:02" class="time">13:02</a>
jwbthat went surprisingly well<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13All the first round of builds completed on Friday<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13early Friday morning in fact<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13and all the bugs for the failures were filed later that day<a href="#t13:03" class="time">13:03</a>
f13the triage team is taking good swaths of those and isloating the build faiulre and sorting them into buckets (either compile failure, or other failure)<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13lots of fixes have been happening, and most of the buildsystem generated failures have been resubmitted<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13all in all this has been one of the smoother rebuilds from the submission and followup side of things.<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13I want to clean up the scripts I used for more general purpose and check them into the rel-eng git tree<a href="#t13:04" class="time">13:04</a>
f13GCC 4.3 rebuilds have been a "would be nice" sort of feature so I'm not going to sweat it too much if things aren't rebuilt by the beta or even the release.<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
f13(unless of course the failure to rebuild results in a failure to fix some other bug or blocker)<a href="#t13:05" class="time">13:05</a>
jwbrelated topic, did you see someone's request for a package for the bump script?<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13yeah, I'm fine with it going into a package.<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13probably makes sense in rpmdevtools<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
f13although it is pretty Fedora specific<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
wwoodsfedora-packager?<a href="#t13:06" class="time">13:06</a>
jwbsomething like that, yeah<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13wwoods: we have other pretty Fedora specific things in rpmdevtools so I don't think it really matters much<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodsmakes sense<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jwboverall i don't think many of the other rel-eng scripts should really be "packaged"<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13nod<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jwbok, sorry to derail<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13typically they're mostly references to start from in order to accomplish your specific task<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
f13and that doesn't make much sense as a package outside of examples/<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
f13anywho, the fixes will continue, and folks like jeremy have offered to look at the real hard compile issues.<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jwbjakub seems to be poking at issues that get reported to -devel<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13gcc43errors is the bug alias that the triage folks are putting the actual compile issue bugs on<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13I think at this point, releng can just let this work itself out naturally<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
f13moving on...<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Orphan package removals<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
f13warren: you were running with this I think, what's the current status?<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
warrenf13, there were relatively few and many were picked up<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
warrenf13, come back me in about 10 minutes, i'll check it now<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
f13warren: ok.<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Making releases a snap<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
f13stickster has called for folks to report to him on SOPs for doing releases<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
f13and we owe him a report<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
jwbi'm sort of confused as to what he wants<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
f13let me pull up the archived mail<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
poelcatf13: he wants a point person<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
f13<a href="https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-February/msg00136.html">https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-February/msg00136.html</a><a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
poelcatso we can have a concall in advance of the beta to make sure all the groups are in sync<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
poelcatand dependencies are handled in order and in time<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13so this is just for beta this time, and we'll do it again for PR and Final?<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
jwbhm<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
jwbis he going to include arch teams?<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
f13that's a fun question<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13theoretically secondary arch teams move at their own schedule<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13and aren't tied directly to our release dates<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
poelcatin theory we do it for all of the releases... and each time it gets faster and more organized :)<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
jwbi nominate f13<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13So unless somebody else wants to volunteer, I'll handle this<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
f13gee thanks jwb (:<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
jwbdoes anyone else really make sense?<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
f13probably not the first time around<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
wwoodsyou *are* kind of the guy who turns the handcrank<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
jwbif you'd like, i can attend as well if possible<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
wwoodsI guess the theory is that we can take notes and then, eventually, other people will know how the sausage gets made<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
jwbthough it would be more of a "listen in" kind of thing<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
warrenf13, I can't login to the database to do a query<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13warren: I saw.<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
f13ok, I'll take it this time.<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
* f13 adds another note to the todo list<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Orphan package removals<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13lets get back to this one for a moment.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13since we're nearing very close to the Beta freeze, I propose those orphans that haven't been picked up be blocked from dist-f9 this week, today.<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
f13that'll give some folks time to realize "oh that was important, I'll take it over" before we hit beta freeze<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jwbagreed<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
f13warren: that seem sane to you?<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
nottingseems ok<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
warrenumm<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
warrenthe orphan list seems to have grown since last week<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
warrenf13, can we warn with a fresh list later today with thursday the target removal day?<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
warrenf13, I need a little time to analyze the new list<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
* warren not sure if his SQL query is correct<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
f13warren: sure, that's fine.  This week though.  I don't want to rip off the bandaid and immediately freeze the tree<a href="#t13:20" class="time">13:20</a>
warrenf13, nod<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
warrenf13, the freeze next week is a hard freeze?<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
warrenf13,  or a slushy one like F8's?<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13the freeze on the 4th is<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13uh<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
warrenhonor system or manual tagging?<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13what is your definition of 'slushy' ?<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
warrenRemember last time around we used honor system?<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
f13we did?<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
warrenMaybe that's the wrong word<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13we branched and told people if they really want to build for F8, build from the branch<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
warrenhuh?<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13otherwise if they built from devel it would go to dist-f9<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
warrenisn't branching optional at freeze point?<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
f13warren: I think we're talking about two different freeze points<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
warrengrr, can't load the wiki<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
warrenf13, I thought next week's freeze is for Beta and feature freeze, and the wiki said people can optionally branch CVS at that point.<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
f13regardless, the freeze on the 4th is hard, you have to request tags from releng<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
warrenThat sounds fine, but when was that decided?<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/Overview#head-7dfffd8d508d35c931d4b7cc519fce1b00019e4c">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/Overview#head-7dfffd8d508d35c931d4b7cc519fce1b00019e4c</a><a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
warrenI thought the F8's version of this "freeze" worked out extremely well compared to previous freezes that operated in a manner similar to what you are saying happens next week.<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
f13warren: F8's only works if we allow for branching<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
f13and it really only works at the tail end of a development cycle, not in the middle of it<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
warrenwhen do we allow branching this time?<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
f13we never decided at what point between beta release and final freeze we'd start allowing for branches.<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
warrenI thought the schedule said at beta freeze point<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
warrenI could be wrong, but I can't load it to find out<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
warrenoh, <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule</a>  March 13th allow branching<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
warrennm<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13Overview still says:<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13Early (optional) CVS branching<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13Right after Beta release or sometime between Beta and Pre-release, we allow for early branching of software. This allows developers to check in new features and otherwise unstable changes that would not be suitable to introduce to the current release.<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
f13but I guess the schedule took that as 'right after beta release'<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
f13but in reality that's going to be very very early for a lot of software<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
warrenOK, sounds good.<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
* warren works on analyzing the orphan lits<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
f13ok, moving on.<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Jeremy's spin writeup<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13shamefully, I haven't taken the time to read this fully through yet.<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13jwb: have you?<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwbf13, i told jeremy i would reply today.  i still intend to<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jeremyit'd be nice to get some feedback so that I can post it for more people to see<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jeremyso I can get spoleeba off my back :-P<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
f13yeah.<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwbjeremy, you'll have something this afternoon from me<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jeremyjwb: sounds good, thanks<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13I really wanted to get to it before the meeting, finding out why rawhide fell over took too much time though :/<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
f13I will also get you feedback today, soon even, so that you can send it out today<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - Open Discussion<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jeremysounds like a plan<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwbspeaking of spins<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jwbi've done two now for mether.  xfce and hindi<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
* f13 gives jwb the floor<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jwbhe has like 4 more queued up (or some number)<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jwball localized<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
warrenoh damn<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
warrenthe orphan list has grown<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
warren125 packages now<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jwbi started a SOP for doing spins, but it's empty now.  i intend to fill it out with this next one<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
nottingjwb: only 4?<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
jwbno, more.<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
* jwb counts<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
warrenoh wait, some of these were already removed<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
jwb11 more<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13I got a scary message from spevack today, where he wants to do a localized spin for wherever we have an event<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13that's going to lead to a /lot/ of spins, just for lang selections<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
f13I for one, don't like this<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
jwbwe have 12 total right now.  1 done, 11 to go<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
jwbjust for .in<a href="#t13:31" class="time">13:31</a>
jwb(i think)<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
f13it's a lot of duplicated content, it's a lot of releases to try and keep track of the sources of for GPL reasons, it's a lot of QA to go through, and it'll start making our download pages rather cumbersome<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
metherone of them is for Srilanka<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
wwoodsugh. I'm gonna need a team of hax0rs to work on automating testing live images if we're going to do this much stuff<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwbthis is an illustrative example of why we need to review jeremy's doc<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jwbbecause the people in this meeting will not scale to test all of these, nor _can_ we in some cases<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jwbi don't speak/read hindi, etc<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
f13right.  I think we said we wanted to see interesting things folks have done with spins, and I'm just not sure of "only include my local language" is all that... interesting.<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13or rather, we wanted to /host/ interesting things<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
nottingf13: then we need to fix livecd-creator<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
jwbnotting, ?<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoodsjwb: right - there needs to be docs and tools for letting the *spinners* test their spins<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
nottingjwb: multiple langauges, selectable<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
wwoodsany plan that involves dumping more work on rel-eng or QA = fail<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
f13notting: wouldn't that be gdm in F9?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
nottingf13: ??? GDM in *F8* does that<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwbpersonally, i have no issues mashing buttons to churn out isos and throw them on spins.fp.o<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jeremywouldn't that be that gdm has allowed it for a long long time<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
f13ok, so I'm confused<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
nottingthese 20 different spins a) set a default timezone and /etc/sysconfig/i18n LANG b) occasionally adjust the translation sset<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
pingou!<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13jwb: yeah, I just have issues with those carrying the Fedora name/logo without anybody doing QA on them, ensuring that they actually install, that no regressions creeped in due to using newer code sets, finding a place to stash the srpms used (!!) for GPL reasons, etc...<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
f13pingou: that's not necessary in this meeting, just blurt it out.<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
pingouthere is the language but also the keyboard that is interesting to changes between the different livecd<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
nottingpingou: i stand by my statement - 10-20 livecd images that only differ by 1% is wasteful<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
f13seems that creating another 700~ meg download for that is.... silly<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
wwoodsunless we work out some magic jigdo way of storing them<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
jwbf13, i'm not disagreeing.  i think that's where we need to go back to the board and say "please clarify why these are official spins"<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
pingouwhat about using the local mirror ?<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
f13pingou: in many cases "what local mirror?"<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
jeremynotting: xdelta!<a href="#t13:38" class="time">13:38</a>
pingouf13, something like storing the french version on the french mirror, the dutch on the dutch...<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
warrenjeremy, will xdelta work when the changes are within the compressed squashfs image?<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
jwbpingou, if they have a local mirror, why can't they do the spin themselves?<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
pingoujwb, they start to do it<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
f13pingou: we don't have a 1:1 mirror:country relationship<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
jwbwe could add links to those<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
jeremywarren: dunno.  someone is welcome to try :-)<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
warrenjeremy, the pyjigdo guys were talking about making jigdo uncompress and recompress squashfs images with jigdo...<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jwbi don't think we're going to make a huge amount of progress on this today.  i just wanted to point at where i am with the spins stuff and raise the bigger question<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
* jeremy sticks his fingers in his ears and goes "la la la la la la la la"<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
nottingwarren: that sounds fraught with failure<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
warrenI just mentioned it<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
warrenok... so the orphan list has definitely grown since last week<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
* f13 has yet to see pyjigdo in action, for it's original purpose, let along feature creep<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13er alone.<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
f13jwb: thanks, that does help<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
warrenlooks like I'll have a complete list of orphans in about 30minutes hwen te script finishes<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
warren(koji is really slow now)<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
warrenf13, really, there is no need to be so down on them, they are free to work on whatever they want.<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
mbonnetwarren: it's working fine for me, seems snappy, and neither the database nor app server are loaded<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
warrenmm<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
mbonnetwarren: sure you're not having connection issues?<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warrenmbonnet, abadger1999 mentioned having issues coming in through RH VP<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warrenmbonnet, RH VPN<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
jwbf13, i've used pyjidgo.  it worked fairly well<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warrenmbonnet, I seem to as well<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
jwbwarren, why are you talking to koji?  shouldn't orphans be done from pkgdb?<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
f13warren: I'm not being down, it's just we're a week away from the beta freeze and I haven't seen a single patch for being able to do jigdo stuff for F9.<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warrenjwb, pkgdb knows about orphaned packages, but not if they were already removed<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
jwbah<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
jwbnor deltarpms... jeremy ?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warrenabadger1999 and jdieter were working on deltarpms?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warrenoh wait<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warrenno<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
jeremyjwb: I haven't had anything to do with any of the work for deltarpms this time around<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warrenlmacken<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
jwbk, sorry<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
warrenjwb, most of the deltarpm work is needed in bodhi, with a little rel-eng scripting after that<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
abadger1999warren: Signing me up for extra work again? ;-)<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
warrenabadger1999, maybe.<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jeremyabadger1999: we try! :)<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
f13sadly nothing tends ot be 'little' when it comes to releng scripting<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jwbwarren, so we'd only target updates with that?<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
warrenjwb, that's where most of its usefulness is no?<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
warrenf13, relatively little compared to the bodhi work<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
jwbyes.  i was just checking.  if so, it's fairly disjoint from being tied to F9 (or any other release)<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
f13except that unleashing deltas upon a stable release without any testing during rawhide sounds like a fun event.<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
warrengrr, you're right<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
metherFYI SUSE has no build system integration and just runs createdeltarpm or whatever post update generation<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
f13mether: they also don't have a very public mirror system and are able to control that a lot better<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
nottingmether: um, that would still be 'deltarpm work needed in bodhi'<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
warrenf13, would you accept adding the deltas to rawhide after beta is released?  Only thing we're missing is a defined place to put them in the tree right?<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
methernotting: they run a cron job or something async<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13warren: honestly I don't know what all is missing, I haven't talked to anybody about it in a while.  Rather, nobody has talked to /me/ about it in a while.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
nottingisn't that what this meeting is for?<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
warrenyes<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13notting: you'd think that.<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
f13who's the feature owner?<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
warrenOK, it seems to me that the only thing missing to add deltas to rawhide is a defined place to put it in the tree?<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
warrensort of me<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
warrenjdieter has been taking point<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
f13warren: so then we have patches to mash to generate deltas, and huristics on what to generate deltas against, and a way of dealing with signed packages vs unsigned and...<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
warrenf13, is mash the right place to put it?<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13warren: mash is what creates rawhide<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13or a cron job does really<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
f13so patches to the cron would also work I suppose.<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
warrenwhat's the source repo for this?<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
warrenI'll point this at jdieter<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
warrenI can work on this after feature freeze myself, but not now.<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13git.fedorahosted.org/git/releng<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
f13I'm not going to be too keen on working on this after feature freeze though.  I really really want to land F9 on time and I don't want to make things more unstable in the rawhide creation land<a href="#t13:52" class="time">13:52</a>
warrenThe sad thing about this is, there is no reason why deltas absolutely need to be done during tree creation.<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
warrenthey can be async<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
warrenit does make it crappy for mirroring though<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
warrenI'll talk with jdieter<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
warrenI'm afraid this will slow down rawhide creation<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
f13yeah, our mirroring system is fragile enough as it is.<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
warrenah, orphan list is complete<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
warren<a href="http://paste.ausil.us/284">http://paste.ausil.us/284</a><a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
warrenI'll send a warning to the lists that these packages and anthing that depends on them will be removed Thursday afternoon if they are not owned.<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
warrenok?<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
jwbxmlrpc...<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
jwbthat seems... important<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
warrenI DID warn people last week<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13warren: good.<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
* warren sending<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
f13anything else this week?<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
jwbyah<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
jwbwhat about the meeting you wanted to setup with the mikes and mark on koji?<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
jwbor is that outside the scope of this meeting?<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
f13kinda outside I think.<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
jwbk<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
f13but for those listening at home, we're setting up a meeting tomorrow to talk about the fedora buildsystem instability and get some timelines for fixing what we can, etc. etc..<a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a>
f13Ok, calling it, thanks folks.<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>

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