From Fedora Project Wiki
Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-06-02
Fedora 10 Schedule
- http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-10/f-10-all-tasks.html
- one possible concern is beta release is the day after labor day
- move discussion to fedora-devel-list and give final schedule feedback next week
Custom Spins
- https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/24
- need to determine how much space is available
- DECISION:
- Once spins SIG bless games, XFCE, and FEL rel-eng will create beta i386/x86_64 versions of these spins from F9 GOLD content to be hosted on spins.fp.o.
- If necessary specific updates will be allowed for specific spins and sources for those updates will be hosted on torrent as well.
Fedora 10 Rawhide milestone
- soliciting name
- https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/23
IRC Transcript
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call | ||
| f13 | ping: notting jeremy spot rdieter wwoods warren jwb poelcat lmacken | |
| * lmacken | ||
| * poelcat here | ||
| * jeremy | ||
| * spot is here | ||
| * rdieter | ||
| * rdieter here | ||
| * wwoods ALIIIVE | ||
| * notting is here | ||
| f13 | nice. | |
| f13 | now, where is that jwb fellow... | |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F10 Schedule | ||
| f13 | http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-10/f-10-all-tasks.html | |
| f13 | That's the current work in progress schedule for F10. I reviewed it for time between events to make sure we have enough time to do our things | |
| f13 | what's missing is somebody to vette it against community events (trade shows etc..) and holidays | |
| f13 | oh and upstream project release cycles | |
| f13 | if one of ya'll could do that, I would be very happy. | |
| f13 | in fact, I'll file a ticket for it right now | |
| f13 | .releng 105 | |
| zodbot | f13: Ticket #105 (task created): Vette F10 schedule against community events, holidays, and upstream release schedules -- Ticket #104 (task closed): please move nspr-4.7.1-0.8.1.fc8 into fedora 8 buildroot -- Ticket #104 (task created): please move nspr-4.7.1-0.8.1.fc8 into fedora 8 buildroot -- Ticket #101 (task closed): Sie haben uns bestimmt gesucht -- Ticket #101 (task created): Sie haben uns (8 more messages) | |
| f13 | oops that wasn't the right command. | |
| f13 | .rel 105 | |
| zodbot | f13: #105 (Vette F10 schedule against community events, holidays, and upstream release schedules) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/105 | |
| jeremy | f13: the obvious thing from 2 seconds of looking is that beta release is the day after labor day | |
| f13 | jeremy: that shouldn't pose a problem as we'd only be doing the mirror sync over that time, and that's pretty hands off | |
| f13 | unless you're imagining people taking off the Friday before that and such | |
| jeremy | f13: it happens. and could cause a little bit of heartburn for mirror admins | |
| * jeremy thinks we've tried to avoid it in the past, but that could just be in his own mind :) | ||
| notting | well, we could just move the freeze earlier :) | |
| jeremy | given that oct 31st is a friday, we could also move out a week. but worth looking at more schedules, etc to see how they line up rather than just making a kneejerk change due to labor day | |
| f13 | notting: I don't think that helps if we don't move the beta release earlier too | |
| f13 | (and then don't slip) | |
| notting | well, if we slip, it's irrelevant (as we'll miss the holiday conflict) | |
| f13 | I'd like to be able to tell poelcat that we are in fact HAPPY with this schedule, instead of dragging it on and on. So lets set a deadline of having this worked out by next week. | |
| f13 | notting: moving freeze back without moving release means we're still trying to release right after a holiday. Move the release back to avoid the holiday and now you can't slip without slipping into the holiday or doubleling the slip to avoid the holiday | |
| notting | f13: all i mean is to keep the release day the same, but move the drop-dead date for having it ready to sync | |
| f13 | We can either use the rel-eng@ list or fedora-devel@ list to discuss schedule tweaks. Sadly I'd recommend fedora-devel even though it's going to be noisier, but it is something that should be discussed in the open. | |
| f13 | Moving along. | |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F9 Milestone | ||
| f13 | The last open ticket on F9 is .rel 24 | |
| f13 | .rel 24 | |
| zodbot | f13: #24 (spins for Fedora 9) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/24 | |
| f13 | This is in jwb's corner, although somebody else from releng may ahve to push the buttons to make things show up | |
| notting | how much space *do* we have? | |
| f13 | Looks like what's needed next is to find out how much space we have. | |
| f13 | I think that would be space on the torrent server | |
| notting | right, but i don't know how we portion that for f9, f9 later , f10, etc. | |
| f13 | 146G avail on /srv/ of the torrent server | |
| balor | I'm looking to make a Cell processor spin for Fedora. It'll be base F9 ppc with three extra packages that I'm hoping to upload to koji sometime this week. | |
| balor | D'oh...wrong meeting | |
| notting | .... how is a separate spin really useful for three extra packages? | |
| f13 | yeah, that seems like an extreme waste of resources | |
| balor | notting: It's targetted at PS3 development. | |
| f13 | ... 3 packages. | |
| notting | still. ps3s have network access, right? | |
| f13 | 3. | |
| f13 | is it really that difficult for /developers/ to add 3 packages? | |
| balor | I eventually want to replace Mesa with gallium | |
| balor | f13: It's more the fact that you need to run a low-resource DE | |
| balor | f13: not Gnome | |
| notting | balor: this isn't spu-tools? | |
| f13 | now, I'm all for seeing a kickstart file submitted for doing installs, but this is not something we're going to host as a spin. | |
| balor | notting: Yeah...didn't know that they were already upstream | |
| f13 | anywho, offtopic for current meeting 9: | |
| f13 | (: | |
| notting | f13: do you recall the amount of spin space needed for base f9, and/or each milestone? | |
| notting | f13: that would tell us how much we can devote to additional spins | |
| f13 | Once 7 goes EOL, do we need to continue hosting the torrents for it? | |
| notting | doubt it | |
| f13 | notting: I don't off hand as we've flushed them from the torrent server | |
| notting | oof. f9-final, as it stands, is 33G | |
| notting | so, we can guesstimate new milestones as 35G per | |
| f13 | 6.8G for F9 i386 (isos,DVD), 8.2G for F9 ppc (isos,DVD), 7.2G for F9 x86_64 (isos,DVD), 7.2G for F9 source (isos,DVD), call it 2 gigs for the live images we did for F9 | |
| notting | and we'll always need at least space for two (staging) | |
| notting | that cuts free space in half | |
| f13 | however we can gain back 14G from F7 reaping | |
| notting | 146-70+16 = 92G | |
| notting | obvs we don't want to spend it all on spins | |
| f13 | of course note | |
| f13 | not | |
| f13 | We spent less than 10 gigs on F8 custom spins | |
| notting | b/c we only did torrent, we have 7.5G of F8 custom spins | |
| * jwb shows up | ||
| jwb | sorry, was at lunch | |
| notting | double that to be able to stage a final on top of a beta... we should be fine with the 'current' set of live images. should probably reserve the right to nix 20 localized spins showing up | |
| * jwb tries to catch up | ||
| f13 | ugh, the localized spins. | |
| jwb | no localized spins | |
| jwb | why is there concern on space? | |
| jwb | spins are hosted outside of the mirrors on spins.fp.o | |
| notting | jwb: the torrent server (also) seeds everything | |
| notting | (afaik) | |
| jwb | notting, same machine | |
| jeremy | jwb: there's still space concerns. the box doesn't have infinite disk space :-) | |
| jwb | jeremy, yes. but it got a large bump before F9 was released | |
| notting | s3spins.fp.o | |
| * jwb doesn't follow | ||
| notting | nevermind, a joke | |
| jeremy | jwb: "large" != "infinite". and so we still need to figure out what the constraints are | |
| jwb | yes, sure | |
| notting | jwb: of the 146G currently free + 16 freed up by f7 going away, we need at a minimum 70G just to stage & handle F10 | |
| jwb | jef's procedures currently handle that | |
| jwb | we just need to pick the subset of "permanent" spins | |
| notting | i thought the permanent subset was desktop/kde? | |
| jwb | notting, let me read the scrollback for your numbers | |
| f13 | I thought spins.fp.o was just another DNS name for torrent.fp.o | |
| f13 | and they use the same disk space | |
| jeremy | f13: it is currently | |
| f13 | $ host spins.fedoraproject.org | |
| f13 | spins.fedoraproject.org is an alias for torrent.fedoraproject.org. | |
| f13 | torrent.fedoraproject.org has address 152.3.220.165 | |
| jwb | notting, where are you getting your numbers from? | |
| f13 | jwb: see my line about what F9 currently takes up, and consider that while hosting F10 alpha, you stage F10 Beta, so on, so forth | |
| jwb | f13, yeah, but how does that apply to spins? | |
| f13 | it's the SAME STORAGE | |
| jwb | what? | |
| notting | jwb: df on spins, du on the spins currently there | |
| f13 | jwb: spins.fp.o == torrent.fp.o | |
| jwb | oh, right | |
| f13 | they're just different web frontends for right now | |
| jwb | yeah yeah, forgot we hosted the release alpha/betas on torrent | |
| jwb | notting, there's additional overhead required | |
| jwb | for source | |
| notting | jwb: that's counted | |
| notting | oh wait | |
| notting | source for spins w/update. yeah | |
| jwb | right | |
| notting | so, any new spins will take more space | |
| jwb | which _could_ be different for each spin, unless they are all done at the same time from the same repos | |
| f13 | This is where I start to cry | |
| notting | hm, need to add a --source option to livecd-creator | |
| * kanarip notes that this is in revisor already | ||
| kanarip | and could easily be in livecd-creator | |
| jwb | f13, yes. and this is why jef left it to rel-eng to determine what can possibly be hosted | |
| kanarip | notting, i just haven't had the time to come up with a patch | |
| jeremy | kanarip: you know where patches get sent ;) | |
| f13 | jeremy: "git sent" | |
| kanarip | jeremy, and you know how my patches always get accepted | |
| jwb | wandering... | |
| notting | jwb: still, even with that the current games/xfce/fel should be 'doable' | |
| notting | but possibly not many more | |
| jwb | notting, agreed. fel is still being worked on i think, so it might come a bit later | |
| lmacken | is the new spin process still unusable ? | |
| kanarip | i don't know | |
| kanarip | i haven't had any feedback | |
| lmacken | i tried to go through it last week, but it was blocking on a mailing list creation for the spins sig | |
| jwb | lmacken, i don't think so. i think it's still being worked out | |
| lmacken | ok... | |
| kanarip | lmacken, that of course is just one part of the entire process | |
| lmacken | kanarip: but it was listed as the first step "send your proposal to this list that doesn't exist yet" | |
| jwb | another big question is this: | |
| lmacken | sounds like fail to me | |
| jwb | when do they need to be done by, and by whom? | |
| f13 | lmacken: it's work in progress. | |
| jwb | lmacken, progress is often measured by failure | |
| kanarip | lmacken, for new spins, it might be - it doesn't concern existing spins though | |
| lmacken | right.. but I want to submit a new spin :( | |
| f13 | jwb: ideally they'd be done within the month after the base release, and done by a memeber of Fedora rel-eng. | |
| f13 | or earlier | |
| f13 | actually | |
| jwb | f13, agreed. unfortunate circumstances might prevent that, unless someone other than me is going to do the button mashing | |
| kanarip | i'll join rel-eng if that makes they are done earlier | |
| jwb | :) | |
| f13 | In my opinion, custom spins should be done as a release feature, and done at release time or shortly thereafter. New spins would target the next release, and I'd really rather not do additional spins for a release once it's gone GOLD | |
| f13 | and the custom spins would be done against GOLD content, not updates. | |
| jwb | f13, i think that's a good goal for f10 | |
| kanarip | +1 here | |
| f13 | jwb: We'll find somebody to do the button mashing, there is a lot of legwork to get to before that though. | |
| jwb | ok. so where does that leave us for kde/games/xfce/fel? | |
| jwb | for f9 | |
| notting | hopefully there is only a single [ DO IT ] button to mash | |
| notting | jwb: kde's done | |
| f13 | notting: you're funny. | |
| jwb | notting, there's a single tool for live images. it requires unique invocations for 1) each arch, 2) each spin | |
| jwb | though i think you know that | |
| f13 | where invocations involve a new virt image | |
| jwb | yeah, that's the suck | |
| notting | f13: hey, i like stretch goals | |
| jwb | we had two xen guests in f8. but i believe they need to be updated to f9? | |
| f13 | jwb: that's likely. | |
| f13 | kanarip: where do we stand with games, xfce, and FEL? | |
| kanarip | FEL is OK, so is XFCE | |
| f13 | kanarip: are the ks files ready to go, and can we do them against GOLD content? | |
| jwb | kanarip, fwiw, i have no objections to you joining rel-eng. as long as you can wear two hats :P) | |
| kanarip | i've contacted the Games maintainers | |
| f13 | (I have no objections either) | |
| jeremy | kanarip: chitlesh is fine with the current state of fel? | |
| kanarip | well, "maintainers", because obviously they have not been involved as much | |
| kanarip | jeremy, we were all at LinuxTag, and the answer is yes | |
| kanarip | we sat around a table at some point to discuss FEL- we're ok there | |
| kanarip | jeremy, it might not be the fel- kickstart that is in livecd-tools now however | |
| kanarip | as they' | |
| kanarip | ve commited to spin-kickstarts | |
| jeremy | kanarip: ok. in that case, I should remove the ones from livecd-tools | |
| kanarip | jwb, i wear a dozen hats | |
| jeremy | kanarip: and at some point, we need to rationalize that in general. but not today, and probably n ot this week :) maybe at fudcon | |
| kanarip | jeremy, that's actually a topic for the Spin SIG meeting next tuesday, 18:00 UTC (fedora-devel and -livecd have the announcement/invitation) | |
| kanarip | jeremy, +1 | |
| jeremy | kanarip: yeah, I saw. I just think it might be easier to hash out in person :) | |
| kanarip | again, +1 ;-) | |
| f13 | speaking of, jwb would you be able to attend above meeting on releng's behalf? | |
| jwb | let me check | |
| jwb | 18:00 UTC is 2:00pm EST? | |
| f13 | yeah | |
| jwb | believe so | |
| notting | next tuesday? i.e., not tomorrow? | |
| jwb | if it's next tuesday, probably. i'll be in MI for all of 3 days, but i should be able to attend | |
| jwb | if it's tomorrow, i have personal conflicts | |
| f13 | kanarip: is it tomorrow or next week? | |
| kanarip | notting, June 10th | |
| jwb | doable for me | |
| f13 | awesome. | |
| kanarip | good | |
| f13 | so where does that leave us with regard to spins? | |
| jwb | need to get the xen guests fixed, then do fel/xfce against Gold? | |
| f13 | Proposal: Once spins SIG bless games, XFCE, and FEL rel-eng will create i386/x86_64 versions of these spins from F9 GOLD content to be hosted on spins.fp.o | |
| jwb | sounds like a plan to me | |
| notting | what if there's specific brokenness in gold content as it relates to the spins? | |
| f13 | notting: that's a great question. *punt* | |
| jwb | then we spin from updates | |
| notting | we'll burn that bridge when we come to it? | |
| f13 | no, more seriously, I think that is where we discuss allowing a specific spin to make use of specific updated content that we would offer in source form on the torrent site | |
| jwb | this is why spins should be Features | |
| f13 | ++ | |
| kanarip | well... | |
| kanarip | if i could get access to a release tree some time, i could guarantee stuff working, or specify stuff that needs an update be released before the spin is released | |
| jwb | kanarip, "release tree" how? | |
| kanarip | jwb, that what is being mirrored just before GA | |
| f13 | kanarip: rawhide | |
| jwb | kanarip, use rawhide. there are very very few changes from that, if any | |
| f13 | (it's what rel-eng is composing against) | |
| kanarip | f13, sure, doesn't get the "it's broken anyway let's wait for updates" so we'll go with testing against rawhide and composing against gold | |
| f13 | GA composes are done against rawhide and potentially with newer builds in hand created local repos. | |
| kanarip | that is something i can do, not updates/ | |
| abadger1999 | lmacken: 34 instances of camelCase in python-fedora. I've counted 10 different variables. | |
| kanarip | right now though, i need to go pay some attention to odp materials i need to create for a two-day advanced course i'll be giving next week | |
| abadger1999 | lmacken: I'll fix these and send a diff to the list so we see how invasive it is first. | |
| kanarip | if jwb can attend the spin sig meeting that'd be great | |
| * abadger1999 loves pylint | ||
| jwb | kanarip, will try my hardest. | |
| f13 | kanarip: ok, thanks for stoping by! | |
| kanarip | jwb, thank you ;-) | |
| kanarip | f13, no problem ;-) | |
| f13 | poelcat: Decision: Once spins SIG bless games, XFCE, and FEL rel-eng will create beta i386/x86_64 versions of these spins from F9 GOLD content to be hosted on spins.fp.o. If necessary specific updates will be allowed for specific spins and sources for those updates will be hosted on torrent as well. | |
| poelcat | got it | |
| f13 | poelcat: further decision, jwb will attend Spins SIG meeting June 10th | |
| f13 | moving along... | |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F10 Rawhide milestone | ||
| f13 | We already talked about the first one, name vetting. The only other opent icket is: | |
| f13 | .rel 23 | |
| zodbot | f13: #23 (Fedora 10 Naming) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/projects/rel-eng/ticket/23 | |
| f13 | jwb: what's our status on this? | |
| jwb | f13, i gave quaid a few extra days to solicit names from the groups that were omitted | |
| jwb | i've yet to get a new name suggestion | |
| f13 | heh | |
| jwb | i hope i get some | |
| f13 | jwb: can you update the ticket with the current status, and your plans going forward? | |
| jwb | yes | |
| f13 | thanks. | |
| jwb | np | |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora rel-eng - Open Floor | ||
| f13 | The next milestones are F10 Alpha and we're a bit away from that, and we're over time, so open floor | |
| f13 | ok, looks like open mic night is over. | |
| quaid | jwb: I tried to use the alias ricky gave me last night and it bounced | |
| f13 | one last peice of business is poelcat filed a ticket concerning the F9 post-partum meeting we recently had, and there were some rel-eng concerns listed. I'll be converting that ticket into individual items for consideration. | |
| jwb | quaid, bummer | |
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