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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-06-02

Fedora 10 Schedule

Custom Spins

  • need to determine how much space is available
    • Once spins SIG bless games, XFCE, and FEL rel-eng will create beta i386/x86_64 versions of these spins from F9 GOLD content to be hosted on spins.fp.o.
    • If necessary specific updates will be allowed for specific spins and sources for those updates will be hosted on torrent as well.

Fedora 10 Rawhide milestone

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering Meeting - Roll Call
f13 ping: notting jeremy spot rdieter wwoods warren jwb poelcat lmacken
* lmacken
* poelcat here
* jeremy
* spot is here
* rdieter
* rdieter here
* wwoods ALIIIVE
* notting is here
f13 nice.
f13 now, where is that jwb fellow...
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F10 Schedule
f13 That's the current work in progress schedule for F10. I reviewed it for time between events to make sure we have enough time to do our things
f13 what's missing is somebody to vette it against community events (trade shows etc..) and holidays
f13 oh and upstream project release cycles
f13 if one of ya'll could do that, I would be very happy.
f13 in fact, I'll file a ticket for it right now
f13 .releng 105
zodbot f13: Ticket #105 (task created): Vette F10 schedule against community events, holidays, and upstream release schedules -- Ticket #104 (task closed): please move nspr-4.7.1-0.8.1.fc8 into fedora 8 buildroot -- Ticket #104 (task created): please move nspr-4.7.1-0.8.1.fc8 into fedora 8 buildroot -- Ticket #101 (task closed): Sie haben uns bestimmt gesucht -- Ticket #101 (task created): Sie haben uns (8 more messages)
f13 oops that wasn't the right command.
f13 .rel 105
zodbot f13: #105 (Vette F10 schedule against community events, holidays, and upstream release schedules) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac -
jeremy f13: the obvious thing from 2 seconds of looking is that beta release is the day after labor day
f13 jeremy: that shouldn't pose a problem as we'd only be doing the mirror sync over that time, and that's pretty hands off
f13 unless you're imagining people taking off the Friday before that and such
jeremy f13: it happens. and could cause a little bit of heartburn for mirror admins
* jeremy thinks we've tried to avoid it in the past, but that could just be in his own mind :)
notting well, we could just move the freeze earlier :)
jeremy given that oct 31st is a friday, we could also move out a week. but worth looking at more schedules, etc to see how they line up rather than just making a kneejerk change due to labor day
f13 notting: I don't think that helps if we don't move the beta release earlier too
f13 (and then don't slip)
notting well, if we slip, it's irrelevant (as we'll miss the holiday conflict)
f13 I'd like to be able to tell poelcat that we are in fact HAPPY with this schedule, instead of dragging it on and on. So lets set a deadline of having this worked out by next week.
f13 notting: moving freeze back without moving release means we're still trying to release right after a holiday. Move the release back to avoid the holiday and now you can't slip without slipping into the holiday or doubleling the slip to avoid the holiday
notting f13: all i mean is to keep the release day the same, but move the drop-dead date for having it ready to sync
f13 We can either use the rel-eng@ list or fedora-devel@ list to discuss schedule tweaks. Sadly I'd recommend fedora-devel even though it's going to be noisier, but it is something that should be discussed in the open.
f13 Moving along.
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F9 Milestone
f13 The last open ticket on F9 is .rel 24
f13 .rel 24
zodbot f13: #24 (spins for Fedora 9) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac -
f13 This is in jwb's corner, although somebody else from releng may ahve to push the buttons to make things show up
notting how much space *do* we have?
f13 Looks like what's needed next is to find out how much space we have.
f13 I think that would be space on the torrent server
notting right, but i don't know how we portion that for f9, f9 later , f10, etc.
f13 146G avail on /srv/ of the torrent server
balor I'm looking to make a Cell processor spin for Fedora. It'll be base F9 ppc with three extra packages that I'm hoping to upload to koji sometime this week.
balor D'oh...wrong meeting
notting .... how is a separate spin really useful for three extra packages?
f13 yeah, that seems like an extreme waste of resources
balor notting: It's targetted at PS3 development.
f13 ... 3 packages.
notting still. ps3s have network access, right?
f13 3.
f13 is it really that difficult for /developers/ to add 3 packages?
balor I eventually want to replace Mesa with gallium
balor f13: It's more the fact that you need to run a low-resource DE
balor f13: not Gnome
notting balor: this isn't spu-tools?
f13 now, I'm all for seeing a kickstart file submitted for doing installs, but this is not something we're going to host as a spin.
balor notting: Yeah...didn't know that they were already upstream
f13 anywho, offtopic for current meeting 9:
f13 (:
notting f13: do you recall the amount of spin space needed for base f9, and/or each milestone?
notting f13: that would tell us how much we can devote to additional spins
f13 Once 7 goes EOL, do we need to continue hosting the torrents for it?
notting doubt it
f13 notting: I don't off hand as we've flushed them from the torrent server
notting oof. f9-final, as it stands, is 33G
notting so, we can guesstimate new milestones as 35G per
f13 6.8G for F9 i386 (isos,DVD), 8.2G for F9 ppc (isos,DVD), 7.2G for F9 x86_64 (isos,DVD), 7.2G for F9 source (isos,DVD), call it 2 gigs for the live images we did for F9
notting and we'll always need at least space for two (staging)
notting that cuts free space in half
f13 however we can gain back 14G from F7 reaping
notting 146-70+16 = 92G
notting obvs we don't want to spend it all on spins
f13 of course note
f13 not
f13 We spent less than 10 gigs on F8 custom spins
notting b/c we only did torrent, we have 7.5G of F8 custom spins
* jwb shows up
jwb sorry, was at lunch
notting double that to be able to stage a final on top of a beta... we should be fine with the 'current' set of live images. should probably reserve the right to nix 20 localized spins showing up
* jwb tries to catch up
f13 ugh, the localized spins.
jwb no localized spins
jwb why is there concern on space?
jwb spins are hosted outside of the mirrors on spins.fp.o
notting jwb: the torrent server (also) seeds everything
notting (afaik)
jwb notting, same machine
jeremy jwb: there's still space concerns. the box doesn't have infinite disk space :-)
jwb jeremy, yes. but it got a large bump before F9 was released
notting s3spins.fp.o
* jwb doesn't follow
notting nevermind, a joke
jeremy jwb: "large" != "infinite". and so we still need to figure out what the constraints are
jwb yes, sure
notting jwb: of the 146G currently free + 16 freed up by f7 going away, we need at a minimum 70G just to stage & handle F10
jwb jef's procedures currently handle that
jwb we just need to pick the subset of "permanent" spins
notting i thought the permanent subset was desktop/kde?
jwb notting, let me read the scrollback for your numbers
f13 I thought spins.fp.o was just another DNS name for torrent.fp.o
f13 and they use the same disk space
jeremy f13: it is currently
f13 $ host
f13 is an alias for
f13 has address
jwb notting, where are you getting your numbers from?
f13 jwb: see my line about what F9 currently takes up, and consider that while hosting F10 alpha, you stage F10 Beta, so on, so forth
jwb f13, yeah, but how does that apply to spins?
f13 it's the SAME STORAGE
jwb what?
notting jwb: df on spins, du on the spins currently there
f13 jwb: spins.fp.o == torrent.fp.o
jwb oh, right
f13 they're just different web frontends for right now
jwb yeah yeah, forgot we hosted the release alpha/betas on torrent
jwb notting, there's additional overhead required
jwb for source
notting jwb: that's counted
notting oh wait
notting source for spins w/update. yeah
jwb right
notting so, any new spins will take more space
jwb which _could_ be different for each spin, unless they are all done at the same time from the same repos
f13 This is where I start to cry
notting hm, need to add a --source option to livecd-creator
* kanarip notes that this is in revisor already
kanarip and could easily be in livecd-creator
jwb f13, yes. and this is why jef left it to rel-eng to determine what can possibly be hosted
kanarip notting, i just haven't had the time to come up with a patch
jeremy kanarip: you know where patches get sent ;)
f13 jeremy: "git sent"
kanarip jeremy, and you know how my patches always get accepted
jwb wandering...
notting jwb: still, even with that the current games/xfce/fel should be 'doable'
notting but possibly not many more
jwb notting, agreed. fel is still being worked on i think, so it might come a bit later
lmacken is the new spin process still unusable ?
kanarip i don't know
kanarip i haven't had any feedback
lmacken i tried to go through it last week, but it was blocking on a mailing list creation for the spins sig
jwb lmacken, i don't think so. i think it's still being worked out
lmacken ok...
kanarip lmacken, that of course is just one part of the entire process
lmacken kanarip: but it was listed as the first step "send your proposal to this list that doesn't exist yet"
jwb another big question is this:
lmacken sounds like fail to me
jwb when do they need to be done by, and by whom?
f13 lmacken: it's work in progress.
jwb lmacken, progress is often measured by failure
kanarip lmacken, for new spins, it might be - it doesn't concern existing spins though
lmacken right.. but I want to submit a new spin :(
f13 jwb: ideally they'd be done within the month after the base release, and done by a memeber of Fedora rel-eng.
f13 or earlier
f13 actually
jwb f13, agreed. unfortunate circumstances might prevent that, unless someone other than me is going to do the button mashing
kanarip i'll join rel-eng if that makes they are done earlier
jwb  :)
f13 In my opinion, custom spins should be done as a release feature, and done at release time or shortly thereafter. New spins would target the next release, and I'd really rather not do additional spins for a release once it's gone GOLD
f13 and the custom spins would be done against GOLD content, not updates.
jwb f13, i think that's a good goal for f10
kanarip +1 here
f13 jwb: We'll find somebody to do the button mashing, there is a lot of legwork to get to before that though.
jwb ok. so where does that leave us for kde/games/xfce/fel?
jwb for f9
notting hopefully there is only a single [ DO IT ] button to mash
notting jwb: kde's done
f13 notting: you're funny.
jwb notting, there's a single tool for live images. it requires unique invocations for 1) each arch, 2) each spin
jwb though i think you know that
f13 where invocations involve a new virt image
jwb yeah, that's the suck
notting f13: hey, i like stretch goals
jwb we had two xen guests in f8. but i believe they need to be updated to f9?
f13 jwb: that's likely.
f13 kanarip: where do we stand with games, xfce, and FEL?
kanarip FEL is OK, so is XFCE
f13 kanarip: are the ks files ready to go, and can we do them against GOLD content?
jwb kanarip, fwiw, i have no objections to you joining rel-eng. as long as you can wear two hats :P)
kanarip i've contacted the Games maintainers
f13 (I have no objections either)
jeremy kanarip: chitlesh is fine with the current state of fel?
kanarip well, "maintainers", because obviously they have not been involved as much
kanarip jeremy, we were all at LinuxTag, and the answer is yes
kanarip we sat around a table at some point to discuss FEL- we're ok there
kanarip jeremy, it might not be the fel- kickstart that is in livecd-tools now however
kanarip as they'
kanarip ve commited to spin-kickstarts
jeremy kanarip: ok. in that case, I should remove the ones from livecd-tools
kanarip jwb, i wear a dozen hats
jeremy kanarip: and at some point, we need to rationalize that in general. but not today, and probably n ot this week :) maybe at fudcon
kanarip jeremy, that's actually a topic for the Spin SIG meeting next tuesday, 18:00 UTC (fedora-devel and -livecd have the announcement/invitation)
kanarip jeremy, +1
jeremy kanarip: yeah, I saw. I just think it might be easier to hash out in person :)
kanarip again, +1 ;-)
f13 speaking of, jwb would you be able to attend above meeting on releng's behalf?
jwb let me check
jwb 18:00 UTC is 2:00pm EST?
f13 yeah
jwb believe so
notting next tuesday? i.e., not tomorrow?
jwb if it's next tuesday, probably. i'll be in MI for all of 3 days, but i should be able to attend
jwb if it's tomorrow, i have personal conflicts
f13 kanarip: is it tomorrow or next week?
kanarip notting, June 10th
jwb doable for me
f13 awesome.
kanarip good
f13 so where does that leave us with regard to spins?
jwb need to get the xen guests fixed, then do fel/xfce against Gold?
f13 Proposal: Once spins SIG bless games, XFCE, and FEL rel-eng will create i386/x86_64 versions of these spins from F9 GOLD content to be hosted on spins.fp.o
jwb sounds like a plan to me
notting what if there's specific brokenness in gold content as it relates to the spins?
f13 notting: that's a great question. *punt*
jwb then we spin from updates
notting we'll burn that bridge when we come to it?
f13 no, more seriously, I think that is where we discuss allowing a specific spin to make use of specific updated content that we would offer in source form on the torrent site
jwb this is why spins should be Features
f13 ++
kanarip well...
kanarip if i could get access to a release tree some time, i could guarantee stuff working, or specify stuff that needs an update be released before the spin is released
jwb kanarip, "release tree" how?
kanarip jwb, that what is being mirrored just before GA
f13 kanarip: rawhide
jwb kanarip, use rawhide. there are very very few changes from that, if any
f13 (it's what rel-eng is composing against)
kanarip f13, sure, doesn't get the "it's broken anyway let's wait for updates" so we'll go with testing against rawhide and composing against gold
f13 GA composes are done against rawhide and potentially with newer builds in hand created local repos.
kanarip that is something i can do, not updates/
abadger1999 lmacken: 34 instances of camelCase in python-fedora. I've counted 10 different variables.
kanarip right now though, i need to go pay some attention to odp materials i need to create for a two-day advanced course i'll be giving next week
abadger1999 lmacken: I'll fix these and send a diff to the list so we see how invasive it is first.
kanarip if jwb can attend the spin sig meeting that'd be great
* abadger1999 loves pylint
jwb kanarip, will try my hardest.
f13 kanarip: ok, thanks for stoping by!
kanarip jwb, thank you ;-)
kanarip f13, no problem ;-)
f13 poelcat: Decision: Once spins SIG bless games, XFCE, and FEL rel-eng will create beta i386/x86_64 versions of these spins from F9 GOLD content to be hosted on spins.fp.o. If necessary specific updates will be allowed for specific spins and sources for those updates will be hosted on torrent as well.
poelcat got it
f13 poelcat: further decision, jwb will attend Spins SIG meeting June 10th
f13 moving along...
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora releng - F10 Rawhide milestone
f13 We already talked about the first one, name vetting. The only other opent icket is:
f13 .rel 23
zodbot f13: #23 (Fedora 10 Naming) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac -
f13 jwb: what's our status on this?
jwb f13, i gave quaid a few extra days to solicit names from the groups that were omitted
jwb i've yet to get a new name suggestion
f13 heh
jwb i hope i get some
f13 jwb: can you update the ticket with the current status, and your plans going forward?
jwb yes
f13 thanks.
jwb np
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora rel-eng - Open Floor
f13 The next milestones are F10 Alpha and we're a bit away from that, and we're over time, so open floor
f13 ok, looks like open mic night is over.
quaid jwb: I tried to use the alias ricky gave me last night and it bounced
f13 one last peice of business is poelcat filed a ticket concerning the F9 post-partum meeting we recently had, and there were some rel-eng concerns listed. I'll be converting that ticket into individual items for consideration.
jwb quaid, bummer

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