BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2009-Feb-17

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Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-Feb-17

Attendees

  • tk009
  • jds2001
  • iarlyy
  • mcepl
  • adamw
  • comphappy
  • hyee
  • John5342


Previous Meeting/Mailing list Follow-up

  • Continued discussion on team and individual goals for the F11 development cycle.
  • Status of metrics reports
  • Addition of BugZappers signatures for bugzilla
  • Reviving Bug Days (this was missed as we ran out of time, but will be on the agenda for the next meeting.)


Current

  • After continued discussion about BugZappers goals for this development cycle, the decision was made by vote to set our objective to that of stabilizing the new bug count against the core component list. We will be using bugzilla's built-in report capability to monitor our progress until the metrics reports are in place.
  • comphappy provided an update to the status of the metrics reports. No definitive time set for when they will be operational, however excellent progress has been made. Thanks comphappy!
  • The proposal by adamw to have signatures for BugZappers on bugzilla was put to a vote and passed. This will be implemented using a Greasemonkey script, and as such, its use will be voluntary yet highly encouraged. Rahul Sundaram's proposal to "...look at GNOME Bugzilla customizations which include automatically indicating who the person responding to bugzilla report is, a point system, easy stock response system etc." will be discussed in future for possible implementation.

Follow-up Actions

  • All triagers are encouraged to continue the discussion to refine and/or expound on the newly stated goal for the BugZappers during this development cycle.
  • No specific individual tasks were assigned during this meeting.

IRC Transscript

John5342 i am here but probably not taking part. Feb 17 07:01
adamw gflargle Feb 17 07:01
tk009 =) Feb 17 07:01
*adamw issues the customary West Coast Meeting Schedule Curse Feb 17 07:01
tk009 anythink you want said in the meeting john? Feb 17 07:02
tk009 lol Feb 17 07:02
tk009 nice and early for you adam Feb 17 07:02
John5342 not as such. am currently in hospital getting over meningitis so just not very with it Feb 17 07:02
tk009 sorry to hear that, get better brother Feb 17 07:02
John5342 am apparently over the worst so should be back proper next week Feb 17 07:03
adamw get well soon john Feb 17 07:03
tk009 where is mcepl I know he was around Feb 17 07:03
adamw mcepl: wakey wakey Feb 17 07:03
tk009 ok well I guess we get started Feb 17 07:04
adamw OK Feb 17 07:04
tk009 oh how about hyee Feb 17 07:05
adamw sorry, call of nature, back in 3 Feb 17 07:05
tk009 I know he wanted to be here as well Feb 17 07:05
hyee here..I'm new Feb 17 07:05
tk009 welcome Feb 17 07:05
John5342 hyee: welcoe to the group then Feb 17 07:05
hyee thanks...I'm axious to get dirty Feb 17 07:06
tk009 the only thing from last weeks meeting is the change to the component list, well that and the continued talk on goals Feb 17 07:07
tk009 we were to follow up that meeting in the mailing list, that didn't really happen though Feb 17 07:07
*jds2001 here Feb 17 07:07
tk009 welcome brother =) Feb 17 07:07
adamw back Feb 17 07:08
adamw hyee: hi, welcome  :) Feb 17 07:08
tk009 did anyone have thoughts on the goals for this development cycle? wb adam Feb 17 07:08
adamw nothing further than last week: keep it simple and pick the things already Feb 17 07:09
hyee sorry where are theses goals published Feb 17 07:09
tk009 yes Feb 17 07:10
iarlyy https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Goals Feb 17 07:10
tk009 well in an email, not really published Feb 17 07:10
tk009 that isnt up to date Feb 17 07:10
iarlyy ops. Feb 17 07:10
adamw hyee: they haven't been agreed yet. they've been kicked about for like three weeks... Feb 17 07:10
adamw i figure when we can actually agree on what they are, they'll be put on the wiki :/ Feb 17 07:11
hyee ok..I see them...is there more current updates Feb 17 07:11
tk009 the goal I purposed last week was, set a goal to triage x numbers of bugs against a component from the new list Feb 17 07:11
tk009 comphappy added to that, saying he felt we should stabilize the NEW bug count first Feb 17 07:12
hyee are these goals overall or for just a partiular release Feb 17 07:12
adamw hyee: that's not defined, it can be part of the discussion Feb 17 07:12
tk009 if you have any idea's hyee this is the place for them Feb 17 07:13
hyee I have not really look at the scope as I'm still trying to get a handle on the scope Feb 17 07:13
tk009 I know the feeling =) Feb 17 07:14
adamw it doesn't seem like enough people are here to sensibly set the goals :\ Feb 17 07:14
hyee how many folks do we have doing this? Feb 17 07:14
jds2001 dont know that we really know. Feb 17 07:14
adamw hyee: i'm fairly new too (though I'm working for RH). so far I've seen about 3-4 people actively doing bugzapping stuff. Feb 17 07:15
adamw hyee: so we definitely need more. =) Feb 17 07:15
jds2001 adamw: how did this work in MDV? Feb 17 07:15
adamw let's have a 'welcome hyee and make him work' session in -bugzappers after this Feb 17 07:15
jds2001 let's learn from experience here :D Feb 17 07:16
adamw for now i guess we should keep the meeting on track Feb 17 07:16
hyee yikes...are we going 10 knots against a 100 knot headwind or something else Feb 17 07:16
adamw jds2001: heh. sorry to disappoint you: equally badly =) Feb 17 07:16
adamw jds2001: MDV had about 3 active triagers. now I'm gone, 2. :P Feb 17 07:16
jds2001 heh Feb 17 07:16
hyee that ok..I just need to know if it's bigger than a breadbox... Feb 17 07:16
adamw hyee: mostly people are running to stand still in their chosen areas (e.g. fcami does xorg) Feb 17 07:17
adamw hyee: overall I'm not sure what's happening, which is part of why comphappy (who isn't here right now) is writing a neat system that'll do stats for us Feb 17 07:17
hyee well it looks like I have an opportunity to really get dirty Feb 17 07:17
adamw hyee: for sure  :) Feb 17 07:17
jds2001 hyee: oh yes  :) Feb 17 07:18
tk009 it is hard to ask more of people that are already contributing, but that is what we are doing Feb 17 07:18
tk009 asking to go a step further Feb 17 07:18
adamw hyee: there are active people who aren't here this morning - poelcat (who's sort of the bugzappers group leader), fcami for e.g. Feb 17 07:18
tk009 jds2001 is the bugzapper leader Feb 17 07:19
tk009 =) Feb 17 07:19
jds2001 well, i founded it, I guess  :) Feb 17 07:19
hyee ok..where can I start...I'm new to this..but having being doing QA professionally for at least 10 years Feb 17 07:19
jds2001 awesome. Feb 17 07:19
adamw jds2001: you're leader emeritus  ;) Feb 17 07:19
jds2001 so you know what makes a bug actionable to a developer. Feb 17 07:19
adamw as i said...can we get through the meeting topics first? Feb 17 07:19
jds2001 sure. Feb 17 07:20
adamw tk009: what's next? Feb 17 07:20
tk009 have we decided to move past the goals Feb 17 07:20
adamw guess so Feb 17 07:21
hyee you mention someone is doing stats..what's the bug trend look like Feb 17 07:21
tk009 I feeling is we shouldnt let any more time slip on finding our goals as a team or individually Feb 17 07:21
hyee that might give us a clue how we should look at the goals Feb 17 07:22
tk009 yes Feb 17 07:22
tk009 compahppy suggested we need to stabilize the NEW bug count Feb 17 07:22
adamw that would make sense to me as an initial short-term target Feb 17 07:22
tk009 fro what I know... Feb 17 07:22
hyee how do we stablize the bug count...but setting the bar higher?? Feb 17 07:22
tk009 we cant see those numbers Feb 17 07:22
tk009 only RH people can Feb 17 07:23
adamw hyee: btw, what 'stabilising' would mean is, having at least as many bugs triaged as are filed (they come in 'new', they go out 'assigned') Feb 17 07:23
tk009 I think it's a good idea as well Feb 17 07:23
adamw comphappy: yaay, just the dude Feb 17 07:23
hyee that first pass look may need folks with more knowledge and expereince than me Feb 17 07:24
comphappy adamw: what did I break this time Feb 17 07:24
tk009 hehe Feb 17 07:24
adamw comphappy: =) nothing, jut we'd been talking about your metrics Feb 17 07:24
adamw yaay, mcepl's here too Feb 17 07:24
tk009 we were waiting for you and you grand plan =) Feb 17 07:24
adamw comphappy, mcepl - we were talking about goals and trying to set the damn things this time - you guys have any input into that? Feb 17 07:25
comphappy oh, well I just put a 120lbs robot in the mail that has been all my time for the last 6 weeks, so now my life can return to fedora Feb 17 07:25
mcepl all: I am sorry -- my computer crashed hard Feb 17 07:25
comphappy I can only be on for about 5min Feb 17 07:25
adamw comphappy: can you make another one to triage bugs? =) Feb 17 07:26
mcepl comphappy: what is the status of GM packaging? Feb 17 07:26
comphappy mcepl: I hit a wall with the local dir part which is key Feb 17 07:26
adamw comphappy: and since you're going to have to leave, can we get your vote on the signatures-for-triagers thing? Feb 17 07:27
comphappy I am waiting for some help from upstream on that Feb 17 07:27
comphappy +1 Feb 17 07:27
adamw ok, thanks. Feb 17 07:27
tk009 that was next after goals Feb 17 07:27
comphappy mcepl: that could be added to the GM script ? Feb 17 07:27
comphappy a "sign" button Feb 17 07:27
jds2001 tk009: we can see pretty much whatever numbers we need. Feb 17 07:28
adamw mcepl: any input on goals? we were discussing comphappy's suggestion of first aiming simply to stabilize the NEW count. Feb 17 07:28
mcepl sorry, I am apparently really behind -- what's signatures-for-triagers? Feb 17 07:28
tk009 we will go back to it mcepl Feb 17 07:29
tk009 we got a bit ahead Feb 17 07:29
tk009 we are still on goals Feb 17 07:29
tk009 please Feb 17 07:29
adamw sorry, just wanted to make sure we got comphappy's vote before he had to leave. Feb 17 07:29
comphappy I was thinking of focusing on our core components though with the NEW count stabilization Feb 17 07:29
tk009 +1 Feb 17 07:29
comphappy the whole shabang was a little of a disaster last time Feb 17 07:29
adamw yep, works for me Feb 17 07:29
tk009 how do we best go about implementing that Feb 17 07:30
*comphappy makes a note to figure out how to track that in triage web Feb 17 07:30
tk009 hehe Feb 17 07:30
tk009 yes and tracking is important Feb 17 07:30
comphappy for now a bz report can give you a now figure for that Feb 17 07:30
adamw it would be possible to do it in the bugzilla report interface if comphappy moves to Guatemala and takes the code with him. Feb 17 07:31
adamw bit icky, but you can do it. Feb 17 07:31
adamw so that shouldn't be a problem. Feb 17 07:31
comphappy would have to be scripted still to run through the list of comp i think Feb 17 07:31
*comphappy is running behind, sorry, see you all later Feb 17 07:32
tk009 any idea on how many new bugs are reported per day? Feb 17 07:32
tk009 be well brother Feb 17 07:32
adamw cya comp Feb 17 07:32
adamw for all components, if the random day I looked at this last week is accurate, ± 100 Feb 17 07:32
adamw not sure for core components Feb 17 07:32
jds2001 probably ~90  :) Feb 17 07:33
adamw ok, bit less - between 15th and 16th, 67 bugs were created Feb 17 07:33
*jds2001 just guessing. Feb 17 07:33
adamw (you can do this with an advanced search) Feb 17 07:33
tk009 given our numbers can we meet that goal? Feb 17 07:33
adamw i'd say that would be about 1-2hrs work per person per day, with current numbers... Feb 17 07:34
tk009 so yes Feb 17 07:34
tk009 =) Feb 17 07:34
adamw oh, 5 of those were Review Requests, which I don't think need triaging. Feb 17 07:34
comphappy comphappy:points to triage metrics http://www.brennanashton.com/triageweb/components you can take a look at one week of data there for any comp Feb 17 07:34
adamw actually, about 10. Feb 17 07:35
tk009 so about 10 bugs per member per day Feb 17 07:35
adamw if everyone who shows up here or on the list gets to doing some active triaging, yep. Feb 17 07:36
iarlyy triageweb is in realtime? or only an example? Feb 17 07:36
*adamw hides behind a rock Feb 17 07:36
tk009 my triage suckage would be a bit pressed to do that Feb 17 07:36
tk009 its real data but for example for now Feb 17 07:36
comphappy iralyy, it is still very alpha but will update every day when it goes a bit more live Feb 17 07:36
comphappy that was a sample of one week Feb 17 07:36
iarlyy ok Feb 17 07:37
adamw still, I think this shows it's a reasonable goal to shoot for... Feb 17 07:38
tk009 ok I think we have a goal to shoot for here, stabilize new bug count Feb 17 07:38
adamw yaay. Feb 17 07:38
tk009 are we agreed on this goal? Feb 17 07:38
*adamw raises hand Feb 17 07:38
hyee ok..what do I know Feb 17 07:38
adamw iarlyy, mcepl? Feb 17 07:39
mcepl +1 Feb 17 07:39
iarlyy +1 Feb 17 07:39
iarlyy should have a way to identify that a bugzapper taking actions on a bug Feb 17 07:39
tk009 that is next Feb 17 07:40
adamw  ;) Feb 17 07:40
iarlyy ah ok. :D Feb 17 07:40
tk009 this goal needs more but this is a good start Feb 17 07:41
tk009 ok lets move to bug signatures for bugzilla Feb 17 07:42
tk009 we can continue the goals talk in the list and irc Feb 17 07:42
adamw hi kevin Feb 17 07:43
tk009 kev is always early =) Feb 17 07:43
adamw let's make him triage =) Feb 17 07:43
adamw ok, signatures! Feb 17 07:43
tk009 done already Feb 17 07:43
tk009 never having done a GM script I dont know how hard it is or how long to implement Feb 17 07:44
adamw shall we explain signatures again for the lost? Feb 17 07:45
tk009 yes please if you wont dam Feb 17 07:45
tk009 I type to damn slow Feb 17 07:45
tk009 let me try that again, please explain adam Feb 17 07:46
adamw OK Feb 17 07:47
adamw and now mcepl's back  :) Feb 17 07:47
adamw signatures is my proposal: it's simply that we have a text signature for bugzappers that is used whenever we work on a bug Feb 17 07:47
mcepl .yeah, Rawhide is fun  ;-) Feb 17 07:47
adamw it would just say something like "Fedora Bugzappers group" with a link to the Wiki space Feb 17 07:47
adamw mcepl: i'm on rawhide, works fine here  ;) Feb 17 07:47
adamw point of this is a) makes it obvious when bugzappers are working on a bug, b) explains to reporters that we're not the developers, c) raises visibility of the group Feb 17 07:48
mcepl OK, combination of Rawhide, vpnc, and couple of other ingredients makes my life busy  ;-) Feb 17 07:48
*adamw stabs vpnc in the eye Feb 17 07:48
tk009 I thought the wording was good and it lets everyone know who the triagers are Feb 17 07:48
adamw so, anyone have comments or voting on the proposal? Feb 17 07:48
tk009 those that dont want to use can not install the GM script Feb 17 07:49
mcepl adamw: -1 or at least needs more talk -- let me explain Feb 17 07:49
adamw OK Feb 17 07:49
mcepl oh, it is NOT mandatory, right? Feb 17 07:49
adamw er. didn't specify that either way. Feb 17 07:49
tk009 correct Feb 17 07:49
mcepl I know that many developers are pissed off from needless comments (and you will be too -- believe me) Feb 17 07:49
tk009 we have to let people make that choice Feb 17 07:49
tk009 explain please mcepl Feb 17 07:50
tk009 that is 2 -1's by the way Feb 17 07:50
tk009 there was one in the list as well Feb 17 07:51
mcepl moreover, when you make comment it is obvious who made it; maybe ask bugzilla maintainers to give you something to the name, so that it will write "Comment #5 From Matej Cepl <Fedora bug triager> <date>". Feb 17 07:51
mcepl which cannot be done by GM, but it should be possible to do it with cooperation from bugzilla folks. Feb 17 07:51
tk009 right now mcepl... Feb 17 07:51
tk009 if I triage a bug no one knows who tk009 is Feb 17 07:52
tk009 you they know =) Feb 17 07:52
mcepl ... when would signature be added? Feb 17 07:52
mcepl (infamous vigilant on RH bugzilla Matej Cepl ;-)) Feb 17 07:52
adamw mcepl: that would work, but it's a bit subtle - it can quite easily be missed. Feb 17 07:52
mcepl well, it should be there just for those who are interested in such things Feb 17 07:53
adamw mcepl: i'm confused as to exactly what your objection is. this doesn't add anything to the volume of comments left by triagers. all it does is add a couple of lines to each comment to clarify who the person is... Feb 17 07:53
adamw mcepl: how do I know if I'm going to be interested or not? =) Feb 17 07:53
mcepl Oh, OK -- so when I switch bug from NEW to ASSIGNED or clear needinfo bit, nothing would be added? Feb 17 07:53
adamw again, that's an implementation detail, but we could do it that way, certainly Feb 17 07:54
adamw and it would probably work fine, thinking about it Feb 17 07:54
adamw the proposal is basically 'when leaving a comment, have a signature on it' Feb 17 07:54
tk009 I thought of it as just an addition to our comments Feb 17 07:55
adamw i'm happy with agreeing not to add a comment where you otherwise wouldn't, that's fine. Feb 17 07:55
tk009 saying we commented and we are a triager Feb 17 07:55
mcepl then we could just edit strings in GM scripts plus add a button "add signature to the comment box" ... sure, I can do that. Feb 17 07:55
tk009 that is all we are doing here =) Feb 17 07:56
adamw could the gm script just do it automatically when sending a comment, or is that unworkable? Feb 17 07:56
mcepl no, because I don't how to distinguish ... err, actually I know ... yes, I can do it. Feb 17 07:56
adamw (that could be optional...i dunno if gm is that sophisticated though) Feb 17 07:56
adamw still, though, seems like we can basically do it well enough to work. OK  :) thanks for that... Feb 17 07:56
tk009 ok we are decided then Feb 17 07:57
adamw tk009: what was the -1 on the list? let me look that up... Feb 17 07:57
mcepl if the length of text in the comment box is >0, then this text would be appended to the end of the comment. Is that good? Feb 17 07:57
adamw i don't see one - rahul made a *further* suggestion, but it wasn't a -1 Feb 17 07:57
tk009 we are about out of time today, we should continue on bugzappers and of course o the list. Feb 17 07:58
adamw mcepl: works for me, yep. we may want to make it optional if some people might not want to sign all of their comments, or if it can't be made optional, not do it and just rely on a manual button Feb 17 07:58
tk009 well his issue is mine as well Feb 17 07:58
adamw but we can hash that out on the list. Feb 17 07:58
tk009 I use so many names none match up Feb 17 07:58
adamw hyee: still around? Feb 17 07:58
hyee yep Feb 17 07:59
tk009 should we continue in bugzappers Feb 17 07:59
adamw hyee: OK - if you pop into #fedora-bugzappers , we can all help you get started  :) Feb 17 07:59
tk009 yes Feb 17 07:59
hyee ok Feb 17 07:59
tk009 thank you everyone for coming today, anything before we close? Feb 17 07:59
tk009 that's a wrap then, see you in bugzappers Feb 17 08:00

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