BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2009-Jan-13

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Contents

Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-01-13

Attendees

  • tk009
  • poelcat
  • jds2001
  • John5342
  • kennyp

Previous Meeting Follow-up

Metrics Reporting

Goals for Fedora 11

IRC Transcript

poelcat who is around? 07:00
tk009 =) 07:01
John5342 hi poelcat 07:01
* kennyp is here 07:01
John5342 hi all 07:01
poelcat tk009: John5342 kennyp hi! 07:01
poelcat tk009: really sorry we couldn't talk more at fudcon :( 07:01
tk009 no worry 07:01
poelcat tk009: did you leave sunday am ? 07:02
tk009 no 07:02
tk009 but I didnt feel so well after fudpub 07:02
poelcat  :) 07:02
tk009 =) 07:02
poelcat i had that problem before and thus couldn't go :-/ 07:02
poelcat jds2001: ping 07:03
poelcat who are the other regulars I'm forgetting? 07:03
tk009 not seeing anyone else in the list 07:05
poelcat well it's been a few weeks since we met 07:06
poelcat so let's go over the old/unfinished stuff and then we can talk about what we want to set as goals for F11 07:06
poelcat 1) jds2001 updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers 07:06
poelcat this is where we keep a simple table of the tracker bugs for each release 07:06
poelcat now we are set for F11 and F12 07:07
poelcat if someone wants something easy to help with... how about reorganizing the page so the F11 table comes first 07:08
poelcat and maybe create a place to archive the F10 table or maybe it doesn't matter anymore? 07:08
John5342 not sure it matters anymore about the f10 trackers 07:08
John5342 they should be closed anyway 07:09
poelcat John5342: hey, good point! i don't know if we say that in any of our procedures 07:09
John5342 either way they are a bit irrelevant since f10 is out the door anyway. shall i just delete the f10 table then? 07:10
poelcat John5342: we should also have a clear procedure stating what happens to open bugs still on those trackers 07:10
poelcat John5342: how about move it to the very bottom of the page for now 07:10
poelcat just so they're easy to find... searching bz for them is a pain :) 07:10
John5342 ok will do. that way we have a reminder of them for when we decide on a procedure 07:11
poelcat so OPEN ISSUE: what happens to !CLOSED bugs blocking one of the F10 trackers... should they be automatically put on the releated F11 tracker or ... ? 07:12
poelcat if no one has any immediate ideas I'll ask some others before next meeting to get some ideas 07:13
poelcat maybe post to fedora-devel 07:13
kennyp poelcat: i think that makes sense 07:13
John5342 i would have thought so since if they are iportant for f10 then they should be for f11 07:13
kennyp poelcat: to move them to the f11 tracker 07:13
poelcat 2) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10#Fedora_8_EOL_Closure 07:14
poelcat looks to have successfully completed 07:14
poelcat i just realized i forgot to do the very first bullet 07:15
poelcat which is to change the bz front page wording about what versions are still supported 07:15
* poelcat fixes now 07:15
John5342 probably worth shifting all the stuff on that page along for f9 eol etc 07:16
poelcat John5342: yes, we should create a new page from the template for F11 devel cycle 07:16
* John5342 adds that to his already long list for the weekend 07:17
poelcat John5342: thanks! 07:17
poelcat John5342: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping/TicketTemplate 07:18
poelcat or feel free to copy/paste from the F10 page 07:18
poelcat 3) metrics reporting 07:18
poelcat comphappy has created a fantastic script that collects triaging activity by user 07:19
poelcat now we need to decide how we would like to report it 07:19
poelcat and also who we should report on 07:20
tk009 I guess only those taht want reported 07:20
poelcat should it only be people on the ActiveTriagers page? everyone in BZ for the fedora product? 07:20
John5342 if there isnt an easier way then probably on the wiki like what you had before. ideally either rolling month or per release or similar 07:20
poelcat John5342 comphappy is working on a turbogears framework to make the presentation easy 07:21
poelcat he just needs to know what we want to see in it 07:21
John5342 maybe two lists. people on the active triagers list and another list with non triagers who would like their stats 07:21
John5342 people who want their stats arent necessarily active triagers 07:21
John5342 or if its in turbogears a tick box "collect my stats" might be even better. loging in with fas id that is 07:22
poelcat John5342: i'm not sure we had considered a tiein to FAS, but that sounds smart! 07:23
tk009 it does 07:23
John5342 only the login api comes from fas. just login. similar to wiki and everything else 07:24
John5342 but i think the api can read the users email address for example (assuming it is the same one used for bz) 07:25
poelcat does anyone have ideas on format? 07:25
poelcat we could borrow from here: http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/ :) 07:26
John5342 that looks good to me although i was also quite happy enough with the table you had before. 07:27
* poelcat is trying to find the wiki page i created for f10 :-/ 07:28
poelcat anyone remember what it was? 07:28
tk009 I think so 07:28
tk009 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Goals 07:29
tk009 is that it? 07:29
poelcat ah, here it is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/F10Triagers 07:30
tk009 that looks fine 07:31
poelcat okay, so we'll give both of those to comphappy as ideas for presentation 07:31
poelcat anything on this topic or previous topics before we move on? 07:31
John5342 and leave it to his artistic nature :) 07:31
tk009 did comphappy get my bugzilla UID? 07:31
John5342 i think you gave us the address last meeting but that page hast been updated since 07:32
poelcat tk009: i don't think so 07:33
jds2001 hrrr 07:33
* jds2001 completely forgot about the meeting, sorry :( 07:34
poelcat jds2001: what's up "top poster"? 07:34
poelcat  ;-) 07:34
jds2001  :) 07:34
poelcat 4) Goals for Fedora 11 07:36
poelcat I'd like to propose that we set some realistic and achievable goals for the F11 development cycle 07:36
poelcat or SMART as I proposed in my email 07:36
poelcat things we can look back and feel good about having accomplished that help move things forward and add value to the F11 devel cycle 07:37
poelcat any ideas out there? 07:37
John5342 realistic rules out having all bugs assigned. concentrating on trackers might be more useful as they are what matter most timewise 07:37
jds2001 I'd also like to concentrate on dups. I think that's where triage can deliver real, measurable value. 07:38
poelcat John5342: making sure bugs get on trackers or triaging bugs on trackers ? 07:38
jds2001 forgot to mention that at fudcon this weekend, too busy with other stuff. 07:38
John5342 i meant making sure bugs get put on trackers but triaging bugs on trackers is probably just as important 07:39
poelcat jds2001: how do we help people find dups? can we create a process people can follow? 07:39
jds2001 poelcat: it's very manual and depends on familarality with the software in question. 07:39
* poelcat confesses to not having a good strategy for dups beyond my memory 07:39
jds2001 exactly :) 07:40
poelcat but if only very people can work on it efficiently is it a good goal to have? 07:40
poelcat maybe we should back up a little bit and ask "when F11 goes GA what do we want our impact to have been on the release" ? 07:41
poelcat IOW if we "found all the dups" would that have been a worthy goal? 07:42
John5342 just putting appropriate bugs on trackers will already make them more visible and hopefully more likely fixed before release. 07:42
jds2001 that would indirectly result in more bugs fixed, since maintainers wouldn't have to wade through as many just to find out that they're duplicate. 07:42
John5342 dupes are very useful i would say but i dont think its specific to releases. no less iportant though 07:42
poelcat here are the guidelines today for what goes on tracker: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria 07:43
poelcat John5342: do you have any ideas how to set a scope on how wide ranging our work will be for putting bugs on trackers? 07:44
poelcat it would seem we would need to review ALL untriaged bugs to do that 07:45
* poelcat wonders if it would make sense to focus on certain packages 07:45
poelcat vs. every random component that comes in 07:45
John5342 thats very true and that does make trackers harder. 07:45
poelcat i guess what i'm hoping we can get to is identify a few things we can focus on for f11 that we can do and do them well 07:47
John5342 am thinking more of a shift our priorities in triaging more towards that. at the moment the aim is to get things assigned by trying to get appropriate info. getting bugs into priority order may well be just as important 07:47
jds2001 note that severity and priority are ignored. 07:47
jds2001 they may as well come from /dev/urandom at this point :) 07:47
John5342 priority meaning that things added to tracker bugs are priorities 07:48
jds2001 right. 07:48
poelcat I'd like to think that by building on small successes we can make triage better overall, but with the limited people we have now our options are limited 07:48
poelcat perhaps this is a change from the past where we were more focused on "getting more people to help" 07:48
poelcat maybe we try something different which is "what can the core group of people that come to our meetings each week do to make F11 better" ? 07:49
John5342 well thats also a priority but thats also dependant on people interested in the first place 07:49
jds2001 ivazquez: is there any fallout from python2.6 you could use triage help on? 07:50
jds2001 for those that don't know, we upgraded to python 2.6 in rawhide a few weeks back. 07:51
John5342 thats an excellent point. what other big changes might cause a lot of bugs? 07:51
jds2001 anything at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureList :) 07:53
John5342 boost might be another one. 07:54
John5342 main thing being that major sources of new bugs might also be a good thing to conentrate on 07:54
poelcat jds2001: how many components are there in the livecd? 07:54
poelcat what if we made a custom query for NEW bugs to triage that only included what we consider the top xxx components as a first triage target? 07:55
jds2001 hmm, matt doesnt have correspondingsource up for f10 07:55
jds2001 732 in F9 07:56
poelcat we are getting close to the top of the hour 07:56
John5342 poelcat: sounds like something to consider. see what the stats are and so on 07:56
poelcat let's think about and discuss this more over the week and talk about next week 07:57
poelcat 5) don't forget that mcepl created #fedora-bugzappers which is where we are doing focused bug triage discussion now 07:57
tk009 =) 07:57
John5342 in the meantime i will try and get more members 07:57
poelcat i'm hoping that the blocker bug meetings will happen in this channel too 07:57
poelcat anything folks want me to track on the agenda for next week? 07:58
John5342 poelcat: make sure you put me down for that wiki page. that will be a good reminder for me 07:58
poelcat will do :) 07:59
poelcat thanks everyone for coming! 07:59
John5342 sorry. you said agenda. not summary. lol 07:59
John5342 bye all 07:59
* kennyp heads over to #fedora-bugzappers 07:59

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