BugZappers/Meetings/Minutes-2009-Mar-17

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Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-Mar-17

Attendees

  • tk009
  • jds2001
  • iarlyy
  • beland
  • poelcat (meeting lead)
  • adamw
  • SMParrish
  • comphappy


Previous Meeting and Mailing list Follow-up

  • Introduction Email SOP - After discussion, it was felt there might be some confusion with the use of "'fedorabugs' group" in the language. A second draft will be created with changes to the language removing "'fedorabugs' group" and any confusion it might cause new members. A new draft will be submitted for review on the mailing list once the status of JDS2001's proposed FAS patch is known.
  • Wiki Front Page - The front page draft submitted by adamw was reviewed and approved for immediate implementation. Minor adjustments to the page will be made when required to align with supporting pages.
  • Meeting Day and Time - There were insufficient numbers at the meeting to make a decision on changing the meeting schedule. It was decided to move the discussion to the list to finalize the change (if any) to be made. If you have not done so this is your last chance to add your preference to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugzappers_meeting_matrix.
  • Bug Work Flow png - No resolution, awaiting further information from John5342.

Added Agenda Item

  • Triage Metrics - The metrics are awaiting bug fixes to other required packages, and not yet operational. The up-to-date Metrics code will be pushed to the triage git repository later today.


Follow-up Actions

  • FAS Patch - JDS2001 will submit a patch to infrastructure, so membership in the BugZappers automatically adds 'fedorabugs' group permissions.
  • Introduction Email SOP Draft - TK009 will create a second draft incorporating the changes specified in the meeting.
  • Supporting wiki pages - beland and adamw will work on consolidating, revising and organizing the supporting pages within the BugZappers namespace.
  • Bug Work Flow png - Need information from John5342 on the status.
  • Triage Metrics Code - Comphappy will upload the up-to-date metrics code to the triage git repository.


IRC Transcript

---poelcat has changed the topic to: Bug Triage Meeting Mar 17 11:00
poelcat hello everyone Mar 17 11:00
tk009 hello =) Mar 17 11:00
iarlyy hello =) Mar 17 11:01
poelcat tk009 iarlyy hi Mar 17 11:01
jds2001 yo Mar 17 11:01
poelcat jds2001: hi Mar 17 11:01
iarlyy jds2001: hi man Mar 17 11:01
SMParrish hi all Mar 17 11:02
tk009 hello SM Mar 17 11:02
poelcat tk009: i saw somewhere a suggestion of reorganizing the agenda so comphappy could give some updates Mar 17 11:03
tk009 yes Mar 17 11:03
poelcat but don't see him here Mar 17 11:03
jds2001 he's around Mar 17 11:03
tk009 he went afk a min, he will be right back Mar 17 11:03
jds2001 feverishly working on some scripts Mar 17 11:03
jds2001 with toshio Mar 17 11:03
poelcat how about we start w/ something else then... SOP for new triagers Mar 17 11:04
tk009 kk Mar 17 11:04
poelcat did everyone get a chance to read it on the list? Mar 17 11:04
poelcat thoughts? feedback? Mar 17 11:04
poelcat i like it Mar 17 11:04
comphappy sorry what do we like? Mar 17 11:04
tk009 I do as well =P (biased) Mar 17 11:04
tk009 did everyone get to read it? Mar 17 11:05
tk009 no one is talking Mar 17 11:05
jds2001 yeah, i just read it Mar 17 11:05
iarlyy I read but don't understand right.. Mar 17 11:05
*jds2001 is forever behind on f-test :)\ Mar 17 11:05
comphappy can I get a link/ref to what we are talking about Mar 17 11:05
tk009 what is confusing iarlyy Mar 17 11:05
tk009 we are discussing the SOP draft I mailed out Mar 17 11:06
jds2001 https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-March/msg00918.html Mar 17 11:06
tk009 thanks jds Mar 17 11:06
iarlyy let me see again... Mar 17 11:06
comphappy oh yes I did like that Mar 17 11:07
tk009 I jsut have questions about how it will be placed on the wiki, not sure where it should go Mar 17 11:08
poelcat do we need to distinguish between "joinin bug triage" and "being added to 'fedorabugs'" ? Mar 17 11:08
poelcat which are different things... or am i being to fine graned? Mar 17 11:08
poelcat grained Mar 17 11:08
jds2001 poelcat: what's the difference? packagers automatically get it, so there's no separate application there. Mar 17 11:08
iarlyy my question is about what is sent in e-mail to new members... because many peoples won't share personal information in mailing, is it already clear? Mar 17 11:08
comphappy poelcat: we kind of discussed this a little bit ago in bugzappers channel Mar 17 11:08
poelcat comphappy: btw how much time before you have to leave? Mar 17 11:09
comphappy 6min Mar 17 11:09
jds2001 poelcat: more if "if you explicitly apply for fedorabugs, this is what you must do" Mar 17 11:09
poelcat let's switch to comphappy's topics while he's here Mar 17 11:09
poelcat sorry for the abrupt subject change Mar 17 11:09
comphappy metrics we talked about, I am fighting a bug in curl right now Mar 17 11:10
poelcat comphappy: greasemonkey... i think we're all squared away for now... the main link is always on the tools page, correct? Mar 17 11:10
comphappy yes and file requests on trac Mar 17 11:10
comphappy for features/fixes Mar 17 11:10
poelcat comphappy: what i'm not clear on is the overall plan for metrics Mar 17 11:10
poelcat i sent some detailed feedback in february, but didn't see or hear anything Mar 17 11:10
iarlyy where is hosted the scripts? Mar 17 11:10
comphappy the very old ones are in the git repo Mar 17 11:11
comphappy I was up all night trying to get it done for the meeting today, but that just did not happen Mar 17 11:11
comphappy but they are very close Mar 17 11:11
comphappy people got emails about a new group last night Mar 17 11:11
poelcat comphappy: excellent! is there an official "go live" date for the metrics site? Mar 17 11:12
comphappy that will control who is in the triagers section of the metrics Mar 17 11:12
iarlyy triagers? Mar 17 11:12
*poelcat wonders if we could combine 'triagers' and 'fedorabugs' Mar 17 11:12
poelcat and just use triagers? Mar 17 11:12
jds2001 poelcat: bag Mar 17 11:12
jds2001 nah Mar 17 11:12
jds2001 i cant type Mar 17 11:12
poelcat more self-explanatory? Mar 17 11:12
poelcat one group to join? Mar 17 11:12
jds2001 fedorabugs simply controls access to bugzilla. Mar 17 11:12
comphappy yes so that pulls in redhat Mar 17 11:13
jds2001 poelcat: oh, that could be done in FAS I guess. Mar 17 11:13
poelcat right... if you join triage you automatically get fedorabugs Mar 17 11:13
*jds2001 could submit a simple FAS patch tonight. Mar 17 11:13
comphappy my idea was that when that email does out, then someone adds you to the triagers group Mar 17 11:13
poelcat comphappy: do you need anything else from us before you vanish? Mar 17 11:13
iarlyy triagers give me same rights than fedorabugs Mar 17 11:13
jds2001 iarlyy: right now triagers give you no rights, it's just a tracking group. Mar 17 11:14
comphappy but you can look at the #fedora-bugzappers history from this morning for more info Mar 17 11:14
poelcat will do Mar 17 11:14
poelcat thanks for all your work on this! Mar 17 11:14
tk009 yes thank you comp Mar 17 11:14
iarlyy i was unplugged :( Mar 17 11:14
comphappy but I have to run. I will be on tomorrow morning on the hours I listed in the last email to talk about it. Mar 17 11:14
comphappy it being the metrics Mar 17 11:15
poelcat comphappy: okay Mar 17 11:15
poelcat anything else on metrics from others? Mar 17 11:15
tk009 no me Mar 17 11:16
iarlyy nop Mar 17 11:16
poelcat okay back to the SOP Mar 17 11:16
tk009 s owe are looking to replace fedorabugs with triagers? Mar 17 11:17
tk009 or am I confused Mar 17 11:18
poelcat "rocedure necessary for induction in the "fedorabugs" group as a member of the BugZappers (Fedora Triage Team)." Mar 17 11:18
jds2001 no, we're looking for one to grant membership in the other automatically Mar 17 11:18
jds2001 there are two classes of folks that need fedorabugs access: triagers and packagers. Mar 17 11:19
jds2001 packager already automatically grants fedorabugs, so we were just talking about extending that behavior to triagers. Mar 17 11:19
poelcat my concern is that "fedorabugs group" isn't going to make any sense to a newbie Mar 17 11:19
tk009 agree Mar 17 11:19
poelcat and maybe they don't even need to know about it if we link it behind the scenes with "triager" Mar 17 11:20
tk009 I didn't even know about it till now Mar 17 11:20
jds2001 tk009: you're a member :) Mar 17 11:20
jds2001 .fasinfo tk009 Mar 17 11:20
zodbot jds2001: User: tk009, Name: None, email: john.brown009@gmail.com, Creation: 2008-10-01, IRC Nick: tk009, Timezone: None, Locale: None, Extension: 5115833, GPG key ID: None Mar 17 11:20
zodbot jds2001: Approved Groups: cla_done fedorabugs cla_fedora triagers Mar 17 11:20
zodbot jds2001: Unapproved Groups: None Mar 17 11:20
poelcat so then we just tell people that if they want to be able to triage bugs in bugzilla they need to send an email to join the triage team Mar 17 11:21
poelcat and request the triage group in FAS Mar 17 11:21
jds2001 yep, assuming that infra accepts my FAS patch :) Mar 17 11:21
jds2001 that is unfortunately hardcoded in FAS, so not very scalable. Mar 17 11:22
iarlyy i think that steps to become a bugzappers isn't clear for me - 1 - fas, 2 - apply to grupos ( what? ), 3 - email, is it? Mar 17 11:22
poelcat do we want to approve the SOP for now? Mar 17 11:22
tk009 I ma thinking no Mar 17 11:22
iarlyy ***groups Mar 17 11:22
poelcat tk009: okay, what is next step? Mar 17 11:22
*poelcat is trying to keep the agenda moving Mar 17 11:23
tk009 make the wording clear Mar 17 11:23
tk009 and make sure that patch gets in Mar 17 11:23
tk009 we can keep it going on the list Mar 17 11:23
poelcat tk009: sounds good Mar 17 11:23
poelcat next topic https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Draft_Bugzappers Mar 17 11:23
poelcat thanks to beland tk009 and adamw working on this and bringing us this far Mar 17 11:24
poelcat what do we need to discus before moving forward with it? Mar 17 11:24
beland The redlinks. Mar 17 11:24
beland I suggest BugZappers/How to Triage for the checklist one. Mar 17 11:25
beland and BugsAndFeatureRequests for the Bugzilla Primer one. Mar 17 11:25
jds2001 camel-cased stuff in MW is utter fail. Mar 17 11:25
beland I just sent email with a link to a draft to replace the How to Triage page, but that can be finished asynchronously. Mar 17 11:25
jds2001 Let's rename stuff on the way. Mar 17 11:26
poelcat right now we just want to talk about the front page itself :) Mar 17 11:26
jds2001  :) Mar 17 11:26
poelcat are we happy with the links and sections that are there? Mar 17 11:26
*poelcat wonders about adding an SOP section and putting the new SOP and housekeeping stuff under it Mar 17 11:26
beland Yes, except for the broken ones I mentioned. Mar 17 11:26
tk009 hello adamw =) Mar 17 11:27
poelcat beland: broken is okay :) Mar 17 11:27
adamw i'm not really here Mar 17 11:27
adamw just wanted it on scrollback Mar 17 11:27
tk009 =) Mar 17 11:27
beland I don't think so; the current front page has links to that content, and we don't want to lose that. Mar 17 11:27
tk009 we wont lose it Mar 17 11:28
*poelcat thinks we want a "google start page" vs. yahoo Mar 17 11:28
poelcat but maybe there are different preferences Mar 17 11:28
tk009 less is better Mar 17 11:28
poelcat or at least something between google and yahoo :) Mar 17 11:28
tk009 I've felt that way all along Mar 17 11:29
beland I just fixed the red links. Look good? Mar 17 11:29
poelcat the things in tools and procedures could be could be collapsed to two links Mar 17 11:30
tk009 are primer and how to triage on the same thing? Mar 17 11:30
tk009 err not the same thing?/ Mar 17 11:30
beland Click on them? Mar 17 11:30
tk009 no I mean jsut from the titles Mar 17 11:30
iarlyy beland: is ok Mar 17 11:31
tk009 shouldn't they be the sae thing is maybe what I am saying Mar 17 11:31
beland If you have alternative titles, I have no objection to implementing them. Mar 17 11:31
tk009 no, I see one link to many is what I am saying Mar 17 11:31
poelcat we already have 8 links under tools and procedures... if this is the front page for our group... how much longer would we be willing to let this list grow to? Mar 17 11:32
*poelcat thinks it is too long already Mar 17 11:32
beland One page is targeted at all Bugzilla users, the other is targeted at triagers. Mar 17 11:32
*jds2001 agrees with poelcat Mar 17 11:32
beland Well, one of the complaints that triggered the redesign was that there were too many pages and too much link clicking necessary. Mar 17 11:33
adamw alright, i'm back Mar 17 11:33
adamw poelcat: the "tools and procedures" link in my draft was always temporary Mar 17 11:33
iarlyy finding bugs and duplicate bugs links, should be same page... or just one linkk. Mar 17 11:33
adamw the section should be there and link to certain important pages Mar 17 11:33
adamw but the content of it at present isn't final. it can't be revised until we've reorganized the important pages it links to, though Mar 17 11:34
poelcat adamw: oh, i thought it was a final draft we were ready to approve :) Mar 17 11:34
beland Well, I say, this is still an improvement over the current front page; let's push it live and continue working on improving it. Mar 17 11:34
adamw poelcat: the rest of the page is, just that bit is not how i envisaged it being 'permanently' Mar 17 11:34
adamw it could go up now for sure if people agree, just with the proviso that we understand we're going to revise those pages and that section ought to shrink a bit as a consequence, not grow :) Mar 17 11:35
poelcat what are thoughts on beland's proposal to move forward? Mar 17 11:35
adamw fine by me Mar 17 11:35
tk009 +1 Mar 17 11:35
poelcat +1 Mar 17 11:36
tk009 we can talk till we are blue in the face and get nothing done, or move forward here Mar 17 11:36
poelcat jds2001: iarlyy others ? Mar 17 11:36
iarlyy +1 Mar 17 11:36
poelcat okay, so what is our next target for finishing the front page? Mar 17 11:37
poelcat understanding that we're moving foward with the present draft :) Mar 17 11:37
poelcat and making it the new front page Mar 17 11:37
beland Next week there will be the draft of the "How to Triage" page to approve. Mar 17 11:38
adamw i think we need a sort of 'how to do stuff' hub page, perhaps Mar 17 11:38
adamw we have lots of little 'how to' bits spread around Mar 17 11:39
adamw they need to be rationalized into one or a small number of pages - if a small number, it can be below a hub page Mar 17 11:39
beland That's pretty much what my draft is intended to be... Mar 17 11:39
adamw cool Mar 17 11:39
beland (I just sent e-mail with a link; it's posted on the wiki) Mar 17 11:39
adamw i would anticipate that would eliminate the separate 'finding bugs', 'how to find duplicate bugs', 'how to triage' and 'stock responses' links at least Mar 17 11:39
poelcat great! Mar 17 11:40
beland Why don't we let people read the draft, then if they have specific proposals about which links they want to add/remove, we can discuss that as well next week. Mar 17 11:40
adamw yep, sounds great Mar 17 11:40
poelcat any more on this topic? Mar 17 11:41
adamw i move we wait on beland's draft and discuss it on the list and at next week's meeting Mar 17 11:41
adamw that seems like the logical way to proceed with the wiki stuff Mar 17 11:41
beland Who is pushing the draft live? Mar 17 11:41
adamw i guess i can do it, since it's my draft Mar 17 11:41
adamw is that OK? Mar 17 11:41
beland The honor is yours. Mar 17 11:41
adamw alright :) will do it now. Mar 17 11:41
tk009 we got your back brother Mar 17 11:41
poelcat next topic.... * Wiki tracking page - Discuss the changes beland made to the tracking draft page (now renamed Components_and_Triagers) and other pages created from the split. Mar 17 11:42
poelcat what are the specific things we need to discuss? Mar 17 11:43
adamw I guess just is everyone happy with it now Mar 17 11:43
tk009 the components and triagers is good to go I feel Mar 17 11:43
adamw since the issue was that it combined too much stuff Mar 17 11:43
*poelcat still thinks the metrics need to go :) Mar 17 11:43
poelcat they are already stale Mar 17 11:43
adamw it does say "soon to replace stats tracking on this page" Mar 17 11:43
*poelcat didn't see that, but that's okay Mar 17 11:44
beland Perhaps next week metrics will be live and the stats can be separated. Mar 17 11:44
beland They are not stale; those are baseline numbers. The live numbers you get from the provided links. Mar 17 11:44
poelcat i noticed that the bug queries... query ALL open bugs... I thought our initial target was 'rawhide' bugs Mar 17 11:44
adamw does everyone like the 'component information' column I added? Mar 17 11:44
beland I do like the new column; seems handy. Mar 17 11:45
iarlyy +1 Mar 17 11:45
adamw iarlyy: note it's renamed now :) Mar 17 11:45
*iarlyy agrees :D Mar 17 11:45
beland We could add Rawhide-only links, though for some components, there are only a handful of non-Rawhide bugs. Mar 17 11:45
beland Personally, I zero out all F9 and F10 bugs at the same time when there is such a small number. Mar 17 11:46
adamw it's also not necessarily a safe distinction, as bugs *reported* in f9/f10 may well also be present in rawhide... Mar 17 11:46
iarlyy the component list is sorted by what? Mar 17 11:46
poelcat iarlyy: name Mar 17 11:47
adamw it's alphabetical Mar 17 11:47
iarlyy it's right? Mar 17 11:47
poelcat except the capitlized ones :-/ Mar 17 11:47
poelcat i'm fine leaving the queries as they are if there are no strong feelings Mar 17 11:47
iarlyy if is alphabetical, anaconda could be in first .. isn't? Mar 17 11:48
poelcat iarlyy: correct Mar 17 11:48
adamw it's Linux alphabetical. Mar 17 11:50
adamw  :P Mar 17 11:50
adamw Z comes before a. Mar 17 11:50
poelcat next topic... * Bug Work Flow Graphic correction - Confirm the proposed changed submitted by John5342 to the work flow graphic. Mar 17 11:50
poelcat the graphic still looks like my original creation :) Mar 17 11:50
tk009 I thought he made that change and uploaded it already Mar 17 11:50
poelcat has it been changed? Mar 17 11:50
tk009 I changed it Mar 17 11:50
tk009 but only slightly Mar 17 11:50
tk009 I htought john had something better Mar 17 11:50
tk009 he showed it to us Mar 17 11:51
tk009 and said I will upload it later Mar 17 11:51
poelcat okay, looks like we can check back on that next tiem Mar 17 11:51
poelcat next topic..... * Meeting time and day - Continue the discussion on change to the meeting schedule based on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugzappers_meeting_matrix. Mar 17 11:51
tk009 while this time is fine for e I would happly move to any other time. I vote yes to any time chosen =) Mar 17 11:52
poelcat who is leading the time change effort? Mar 17 11:52
*poelcat is just following along :) Mar 17 11:52
tk009 I thought that was adam Mar 17 11:52
poelcat adamw: ? Mar 17 11:53
adamw errr, was it? Mar 17 11:53
*adamw hides behind something Mar 17 11:53
adamw i thought it was jstizzle! Mar 17 11:53
tk009 yes you sent the mail out about it Mar 17 11:53
adamw damn, busted Mar 17 11:53
adamw that was only a SUGGESTION Mar 17 11:53
adamw  :) Mar 17 11:53
adamw ok, i'll send a follow-up mail to the list Mar 17 11:53
adamw saying 'looks like this is the most popular time from the matrix, so we can move to that time or stick with the current time' Mar 17 11:54
adamw then take it from there. Mar 17 11:54
tk009 we need to do better about discussion on the list Mar 17 11:54
tk009 most are not responding Mar 17 11:54
iarlyy tk009: agrees Mar 17 11:54
poelcat what should we or can we do about it? Mar 17 11:55
tk009 well if we vote on things on the list and get no response we should take that as a yes Mar 17 11:56
tk009 inform people no response is a yes on votes Mar 17 11:56
iarlyy is a good idea Mar 17 11:56
tk009 we could have done this whole eeting on the list Mar 17 11:56
poelcat okay.. 3 minutes left.. any other topics besides bug day after the meeting? Mar 17 11:57
iarlyy as we said in brazil, "silence give consent" Mar 17 11:58
tk009 =) Mar 17 11:58
tk009 I have nothing else Mar 17 11:58
beland What about the 000-Not-Sure-What-Component-To-File-Against issue? Mar 17 11:58
adamw i like the proposal Mar 17 11:59
adamw i dunno if we have power to create components in bz though Mar 17 11:59
beland We can ask. Mar 17 11:59
tk009 to zappers? Mar 17 11:59
poelcat is that question posted on the list? Mar 17 12:00
beland It was, yes. Mar 17 12:00
beland It got crickets. Mar 17 12:00
poelcat when? Mar 17 12:00
tk009 that was jsut today right? Mar 17 12:00
tk009 this morning Mar 17 12:00
poelcat okay Mar 17 12:01
poelcat let's discuss next week if nothing happens on the list :-/ Mar 17 12:01
poelcat we're overtime ... thanks everyone for comming :) Mar 17 12:01

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