Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20060126

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Fedora Extras Steering Committee Meeting

26 January 2006

Attending from FESCo

  • ThorstenLeemhuis (thl)
  • JeremyKatz (jeremy)
  • EnricoScholz (ensc)
  • ThomasVanderStichele (thomasvs)
  • VilleSkyttä (scop)
  • GregDeKoenigsberg (gregdek)
  • JosePedroOliviera (jpo)

Actions

  • Kernel module standardization

Ongoing. We'll use the latest version Ville posted to extras list some days ago. He'll import it to cvs soon.

Next on the todo-list: Make the buildsystem handle kmods

  • Mass Rebuild of FE5

We can't start yet, need to wait for another build in core

Core doesn't really worry about dep order when building

Looks like we'll ignore the dep-order for rebuilding FE5, too and will let the packagers request rebuilds -- no script

  • EOL Policy for FE

We're waiting for Warren. Some details now at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/EolPolicy

  • Weekly sponsorship nomination

New sponsors: Kevin Fenzi (nirik) and (now for real) Josh Boyer (jwb)

  • FE-NEEDSPONSOR

We have a bug now (#177841) -- do we need more?

  • Encourage more Extras reviews

Create special interest groups?

Input needed!

  • Mono in FE

Nobody was there that said "Disallow it" -> Mono packages allowed from now on in FE5. If certain people don't feel comfortable submitting or reviewing said packages, that is up to them.

Mono in FE4 -- revisit after release of FC5

Complete Log

18:57            --> | scop (Ville Skytta)  has joined #fedora-extras
19:00 <         thl> | hi
19:00 <         thl> | everyone ready for FESCo meeting?
19:00              * | jeremy is partly here
19:00 <         thl> | any FESCo members around? a quick "yes" or something like that would be helpful
19:00              * | scop is ready in a few minutes, don't wait
19:01            --> | jpo (Unknown)  has joined #fedora-extras
19:01            --- | Users 43 nicks
19:01 <         thl> | ensc, warren, skvidal (still at LCA ?)
19:02 <         thl> | Well, lets start
19:02 <         thl> | does anyone want to take notes?
19:02              * | gregdek hullos.
19:02 <      jeremy> | warren is in japan, so probably won't make it
19:02 <         thl> | still there? okay
19:03 <         thl> | let's start
19:03 <         thl> | ||Kernel module standardization||ThorstenLeemhuis||
19:03 <         thl> | ohh, let's wait with that one until scop is ready
19:03 <         thl> | Mass rebuild of Extras for FC5 || jeremy
19:04 <         thl> | dcbw mentioned that plague 0.5 might make that easier? jeremy do you know anything about that?
19:04              * | scop is here
19:05 <     jeremy> | thl: I don't think that plague 0.5 really makes much of a difference
19:05 <      jeremy> | I do know that we can't start it yet as there are some gcc/glibc things which are still coming (hopefully monday or tuesday) that are going to require a core rebuild
19:05 <         thl> | jeremy, any news from jackub?
19:05 <         thl> | jeremy, okay
19:06 <         thl> | jeremy, what would you suggest how to do it? with a script?
19:06 <         thl> | jeremy, how does core handle those things? are rebuilds done in dep-order?
19:06 <      jeremy> | we don't really worry about dep order when doing it for core
19:06 <        scop> | what happens with the packages resulting from the mass rebuild?  scratch repo or something else?
19:06 <      jeremy> | basically "throw stuff, try stuff that fails until everything builds"
19:07 <      jeremy> | it works okay enough
19:07 <      jeremy> | and ender should be able to help grab the script he's been using for core
19:07 <      jeremy> | scop: they go straight into rawhide for core
19:07            <-- | ensc has quit (Nick collision from services.)
19:07            --> | ensc (Enrico Scholz)  has joined #fedora-extras
19:08 <         thl> | that enough information for me and for now on that topic
19:08 <        ensc> | hi, sorry... network outage :(
19:08 <        scop> | jeremy, I think I'd be more comfortable with a throwaway repo
19:09 <         thl> | scop, why?
19:09 <        scop> | packagers commit work-in-progress stuff to CVS
19:09 <        scop> | things that aren't really meant to be built yet
19:09 <        scop> | (well, at least I do, occasionally)
19:10 <      jeremy> | scop: personally, I'd prefer to get packagers to do as much of the rebuilding as possible
19:10 <      jeremy> | also, it should be easy enough to do a "check if version in cvs is the same as what's built, if not, don't do automated bump+build"
19:11 <        scop> | but auto-bump+rebuilds are directly against "packagers do it as much as possible", no?
19:11 <      jeremy> | scop: that's an either/or, not an and :-)
19:12 <         thl> | me votes for "packagers do it as much as possible" and "ignore dep-order"
19:12            --> | thomasvs (Thomas Vander Stichele)  has joined #fedora-extras
19:12 <     jeremy> | thl: agreed
19:12 <        scop> | +1
19:13            --> | edhill_ (Ed Hill)  has joined #fedora-extras
19:13            <-- | edhill has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:13 <      jeremy> | although I think we should expect that we'll have to go through and do some stuff for packagers who are busy or otherwise before the release of fc5
19:13 <         thl> | jeremy, sure
19:13 <         thl> | okay, let's go back to kernel-modules
19:14 <         thl> | scop, I ported the nxxxxx-drivers over to the new proposal
19:14 <         thl> | worked quite well afaics
19:14 <        scop> | ok, good to hear
19:14 <         thl> | scop, anything left to discuss?
19:14 <        scop> | I think it's looking ok from the packaging side
19:15 <         thl> | agreed
19:15 <        scop> | buildsys hacking is up next
19:15 <         thl> | jeremy, did you take a look at the last scheme?
19:15 <         thl> | do we need to run a package trough behivee?
19:15 <        scop> | um?
19:15 <     jeremy> | thl: I haven't looked in the past couple of weeks due to travel and meetings :/
19:16 <         thl> | just to test that everything works fine there in case CFeist wants to use it
19:16 <        scop> | ah, ok
19:16 <     jeremy> | thl: but I'm willing to say it's good and if we have to tweak later, we'll tweak.  I'm sure something else will need tweaking before long anyway :-)
19:16            --> | ignacio|School (gaim)  has joined #fedora-extras
19:17 <         thl> | jeremy, you know that we used a quite different approach now?
19:17 <         thl> | with a bash script instead of a macro
19:17 <     jeremy> | thl: yeah, I saw that
19:17 <         thl> | k
19:18 <         thl> | scop, then let's talk with dcbw about the buildsys
19:18 <         thl> | can you do that?
19:18 <        scop> | wait, first, no objections to /me committing the thinkpad and lirc kmod packages to CVS tonight?
19:18 <         thl> | okay for me
19:19 <        scop> | allright
19:20 <        scop> | I have some vague ideas about the buildsys part, will try to find time Really Soon Now
19:20 <         f13> | jeremy: the script I was using for core needs a lot of love.
19:20 <         f13> | jeremy: it does some not cool things to the nvre
19:20 <         thl> | f13, we agreed to let the packagers do the work
19:20 <         f13> | oh ok.
19:20 <         thl> | okay, moving on
19:20 <         thl> | skipping FE-NEEDSPONSOR tracker bug||Warren||
19:21 <         thl> | skipping other things as well
19:21 <         thl> | EOL Policy for FE||???||
19:21 <         f13> | ah
19:21 <         f13> | I submitted a proposal for this a while ago.
19:21 <         thl> | Well, how about "no new branches for FC3 in FE from now on"
19:22              * | thl scratches his head
19:22 <         thl> | f13, when/where?
19:22 <         f13> | the crux of it was:  No new packages for releases in maint mode (IE they're in Legacy), but maintainer's disgression if they want to release updates for existing packages.
19:22 <        f13> | thl: many weeks ago to fesco list.
19:23 <        f13> | thl: Dec 2 2005 to be exact.
19:23 <         f13> | of course, warren didn't like it, and I've integrated some of his suggestions.
19:25 <         thl> | f13, could you add it to http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/EolPolicy ?
19:25 <         thl> | then we can talk about the details next week
19:25 <         f13> | Sure.
19:25 <         thl> | but maybe we should at least agree on the
19:25 <         f13> | basically warren wanted to be able to upgrade versions of things like clamav
19:25 <         thl> | "no new branches for FC3 in FE from now on" part
19:26 <         f13> | and he didn't want to lock anything down because FE3 was useful to RHEL, which personally I think isn't really our concern.
19:26 <        f13> | thl: can you define 'branches' for me?
19:26 <        scop> | s/branches/packages/
19:26 <        scop> | kinda
19:27 <         f13> | ok.
19:27 <         f13> | warren will probably not agree to that.
19:27 <         thl> | f13, people still request directory for FC3 on http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/CVSSyncNeeded
19:27 <         f13> | <quote>
19:27 <         f13> | Anyway, for this reason I don't want to totally disallow new packages in
19:27 <         f13> | FE3 yet.  It would really inconvenience me, and probably other Extras
19:27 <         f13> | contributors who use and rely on it.
19:27 <         f13> | </quote>
19:28 <         thl> | okay, then let's wait another week with that stuff
19:28 <         f13> | oh I guess ou need the reason.
19:28 <         f13> | the reason was FE useful ness for RHEL
19:28 <        f13> | thl: ok.  I'll add my email to the wiki page.
19:29 <         thl> | f13, thx
19:29 <         thl> | okay, next point:  Weekly sponsorship nomination
19:29 <        scop> | I think this is closely related to "encourage extras reviews"
19:30 <         thl> | nirik was suggested last week
19:30 <         thl> | "Kevin Fenzi" in real life
19:31 <       nirik> | yeah, edhill nominated me.
19:31 <       nirik> | I would be happy to help out sponsoring or just reviewing... ;)
19:32 <        scop> | +1, although I don't have too clear a picture of your work, but just a general positive feeling
19:32 <         thl> | well, a +1 for nirik
19:33 <         f13> | http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/EolPolicy  has been updated.
19:33 <       nirik> | I have also been trying to do a mass rebuild lately and file bugs against things that don't build in mock
19:33 <         thl> | any -1 ?
19:33              * | thl waits some seconds
19:33 <     gregdek> | +1
19:34 <         thl> | okay, nirik upgraded to a sponsor;-)
19:35 <       nirik> | thanks. Will try and use the power for good... :)
19:35 <       nirik> | are there many sponsor waiting bugs?
19:35              * | nirik goes to check bugzilla.
19:35 <       nirik> | I looked a while ago and there were not many...
19:35 <         thl> | not on the schedule, but scop mentioned it already
19:35 <         thl> | "encourage extras reviews"
19:36 <        scop> | also, that's the FE-NEEDSPONSOR item which was postponed
19:36 <         thl> | FE-NEEDSPONSOR exists somewhere already
19:36 <       nirik> | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=177841
19:37 <         thl> | yeah
19:37 <         thl> | it was on warrens todo list
19:37 <        scop> | ah!
19:37 <         thl> | but Roozbeh simply did it
19:37 <       nirik> | yeah, not sure all the ones needed are there, but I think it's a good cut at it.
19:37 <        scop> | I wonder how many other sponsors besides me have completely missed that...?
19:38 <        scop> | (#177841, that is)
19:38 <       nirik> | there was a post about it to the extras list...
19:38 <       nirik> | but not much comment on it, so it could easily have been missed.
19:38 <        scop> | okay, hopefully not many others did
19:39 <         thl> | I liked the idea mschwendt brought up on fesco list
19:39 <         thl> | create special interest groups for python and perl
19:39 <        scop> | that was discussed ages ago during fedora.us times, basically everyone liked it but nobody implemented :(
19:39 <         f13> | that is a good idea.
19:40 <         thl> | mschwendt said to do it in the wiki
19:40 <         f13> | grouping has other benifits too, like paving the way to logical groupings within Anaconda in FC6 when Extras is available at install time.
19:40 <         thl> | why don't we simply create more tracker bugs
19:40 <         thl> | sorting them shouldn't be to hard
19:40 <         thl> | them=new review requests
19:41 <       nirik> | could have a MONO one too. ;)
19:41 <         thl> | Mono is next on my todo list
19:41 <         thl> | ;-)
19:42              * | f13 looks at the floor
19:42 <        scop> | is it the responsibility of the submitter to place it into the appropriate trackers?
19:42 <        scop> | (it=the new submission)
19:42 <         thl> | good question
19:43 <         thl> | it's only a tool that should help sorting things
19:43 <         thl> | do we really need a enforce policy for this?
19:44 <        scop> | no... but someone needs to fill in the trackers, otherwise they're not much use
19:44 <         thl> | jpo, could you have a look after perl packages?
19:44 <         thl> | do we have anyone that has a special interest in python?
19:45 <        jpo> | thl: ok
19:45 < ignacio|Sch> | I do, but I'm very busy atm.
19:45 <         thl> | let's discuss the details on the list until next week
19:45 <        scop> | I'm not sure if "python" is that good as a category
19:45 <         jwb> | back to the sponsor thing for a second..
19:45 <         thl> | okay for everybody?
19:46 <        scop> | okay
19:46 <         thl> | jwb, shoot now
19:46 <         jwb> | whomever goes in to the tool to give nirik sponsor auth, could you do mine at the same time?  i got nominated a few weeks ago but haven't been given permissions yet
19:47 <         jwb> | at least not according to https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts/dump-group.cgi?group=cvsextras&role_type=sponsor&format=html
19:47 <         thl> | who has admin rights there?
19:47 <         thl> | jwb, I'll check that later
19:48 <        jwb> | thl, no problem
19:48 <         thl> | and take care of it
19:48 <         thl> | okay
19:48 <         jwb> | thx
19:48 <         thl> | Mono
19:48 <         f13> | *cough*
19:48 <     gregdek> | *cough*
19:48 <         jwb> | *puke*
19:48 <         thl> | I don't like the situation, but we have to deal with it
19:49 <         thl> | I think allowing things in core and forbid them in extras is ridiculous
19:49 <         thl> | other opinions?
19:50 <     jeremy> | thl: I think it is reasonable to allow mono apps in extras now (as I've previously said)
19:50 <      jeremy> | if certain people don't feel comfortable submitting or reviewing said packages, that is up to them
19:50 <         thl> | jeremy, agreed
19:50 <         f13> | +1 from me too
19:51 <     gregdek> | +1
19:51 <         thl> | anyone that disagrees on this?
19:51              * | gregdek looks for ralf...
19:51 <         jwb> | heh
19:51 <         thl> | yeah, I'm waiting for ralf, too
19:52            --> | mdomsch (Matt Domsch)  has joined #fedora-extras
19:53 <         thl> | okay, then mono packages are allowed in FE5 from now on
19:53 <         thl> | we still wait with FC4 until FC5 is released
19:53 <     gregdek> | So mote it be!
19:53 <         jwb> | did i miss the mass rebuild topic?
19:53              * | jwb was late
19:54 <         thl> | jwb, yes, you did
19:54 <        f13> | thl: sounds good to me.
19:54 <         thl> | anything else that need to be discussed today?
19:54 <         thl> | we're running late...
19:54 <         jwb> | erm.. minutes?
19:55 <         jwb> | ah, nevermind
19:55 <         thl> | jwb, usual place in half an hour
19:55 <         thl> | guys, just fyi: ensc created http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/RpathCheckBuildsys
19:55            <-- | mspevack  has left #fedora-extras ( "Leaving")
19:55 <         thl> | We IMHO should use the checks in FE devel after FC5 was released
19:56 <         thl> | but we'll better discuss it another time
19:56 <        scop> | btw, rpath check test suite fails in current rawhide
19:56 <        ensc> | scop: sorry, I had no time yet to look into it
19:56 <        scop> | ensc, no problem, just a fyi for others
19:56 <        scop> | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=178636
19:57 <         jpo> | for example: lftp
19:57 <         thl> | jeremy, "FC5 naming" is still on the FESCo todo-list
19:57 <         thl> | I hope you guys take care of it in time for FC5 ;-)
19:58 <         thl> | anything else?
19:58              * | thl will close in 60
19:58 <        scop> | none here
19:58              * | f13 wonders why naming FC is a FE task...
19:59              * | thl will close in 30
19:59 <         jwb> | f13, we wondered the same thing at the last meeting :)
19:59              * | thl will close in 10
19:59 <         thl> | MARK meeting end