Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20060622

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Summary

Present from FESCo: thl, Sopwith, jpo, scop, jeremy (somewhat), warren, skvidal, ensc

  • thl apologizes -- he didn't write the meeting summaries for the past two Meetings yet
  • FESCo future/election
  • thl > | everything working as expected so far?
  • abadger1999> | No one's complained. And I haven't received any mails from the system that thing aren't working.
  • warren's access to some machines was limited due to the election -- he can't do CVS branching anymore. We should make sure that such things aren't necessary in the future (if possible). Sopwith / the infrastructure group will take care of creating CVS branches duing the meeting
  • Encourage Extras reviews
  • FAB is watching us -- see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-06-20 in the part "Fedora Extras Steering Committee discussed the sponsorship lag question. A summary, as provided by SethVidal, follows. [...] "
  • thl> | everyone should read that summary and we really need to find ways to improve the whole situation -> Topic for next FESCo
  • warren> | I maintain that the only solution is more education and better documentation. I think Tibbs' mail on this topic is right on track.
  • tibbs will take care of improving the documentation in the wiki from now on
  • Incompatible package upgrade policy
  • still on the schedule
  • directfb still was not updated
  • It's a bit unclear on just what this topic covers.
  • we really need somebody to driver this forward; we'll put it on the plate for the new FESCo and ignore it for now
  • scop> | just to remind, spot said that he'd work something out of the discussions
  • FC3 branch of perl-Net-SNMP
  • one of the nagios plugins requires it and Infrastructure machines run FC3 it seems.
  • creation of that branch permitted
  • minimal buildroot problem
  • wart posted to f-e-l on that topic. Any ideas what we can do about it? (missing elfutils -> binaries don't get stripped)
  • elfutils probably needs to be added to the build roots on FC4 (maybe FC3 also)
  • here seem to be some kind of problem with python as well
  • if was agreed on to simply discuss this further on the list; if it looks like it should be necessary that elfutils or python need to be added we simply do it without further discussion

Full Log

0:00            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress
0:00 <         thl> | hy everyone
0:00            --> | Sopwith (Undisclosed)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:00 <         thl> | who's around?
0:00 <     Sopwith> | heya
0:00 <         jpo> | hi
0:01 <       tibbs> | Howdy.
0:01 < abadger1999> | hello.
0:02 < abadger1999> | scop: Thanks.  ACLs on that page seem to be permissive.
0:02              * | jeremy is somewhat around
0:02              * | scop is around
0:02              * | nirik is drinking coffee in the gallery.
0:02 <         thl> | First I must apologize
0:03 <         thl> | I didn't write the meeting summaries for the past two weeks yet
0:03 <         thl> | To much to do at work in the past two weeks
0:03 <         thl> | and since the beginning of this week I'm on holiday
0:03 <         thl> | and even now I didn#t find enough time :-/ Sorry
0:03              * | bpepple is lurking around.
0:03            --> | warren (Unknown)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:03 <         thl> | anyway, let's start
0:03              * | scop is on vacation next week starting from today, BTW
0:03            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress --
0:04            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- FESCo future/election
0:04 <         thl> | abadger1999, Sopwith, everything working as expected so far?
0:05 < abadger1999> | No one's complained.
0:05              * | skvidal is here
0:05 < abadger1999> | And I haven't received any mails from the system that thing aren't working.
0:05 <    dgilmore> | worked for me
0:05 <     skvidal> | sorry, I was a little late
0:05              * | nirik just voted fine.
0:05              * | bpepple voted, and had no problems.
0:05              * | skvidal voted, no problems
0:06 <         thl> | okay, then let's move on
0:06 <      warren> | only problem I have is being cut off from fedora server login for 2 weeks
0:06 <         thl> | warren, sorry
0:06 <      warren> | I can't do CVS branching
0:06 <         thl> | we should have a better solution for the next vote
0:06 < abadger1999> | thl: Did an announcement that voting is officially open get sent to the list?
0:07 <      warren> | thl, how are we going to deal with CVS branching?
0:07 <         thl> | abadger1999, I didn#t send one but jwb or bpepple send one iirc
0:07 <         thl> | abadger1999, that enough?
0:07 <         thl> | warren, good question :-/
0:07 < abadger1999> | That's fine.
0:07 <        scop> | Sopwith could take care of the branching?
0:07 <      warren> | Sopwith doesn't know what to branch
0:08 <     Sopwith> | You can tell me.
0:08 <      warren> | I regularly need to read the reviews and mail people went there are problems.
0:08 <     Sopwith> | Or you could train someone else to back you up.
0:08 <      warren> | OK, I'll just forward all requests through sopwith during these 2 weeks.
0:08 <      warren> | It was normally me and spot doing it.
0:09 < abadger1999> | We shouldn't really need to totally be cutoff... Can our shells on app1 and app2 be changed to disallow login or something?
0:09 <         thl> | Sopwith, warren, we really should make sure that we acoid such problems in the future
0:09 <     Sopwith> | warren: OK
0:09 <     Sopwith> | abadger1999: Yea, it's not impossible to configure things that way eventually, just not something I can do in five minutes.
0:10 <     Sopwith> | And to pursue a tangent, warren shouldn't really be the only one that can do this stuff, if it is so critical to Extras.
0:10 <      warren> | Sopwith, buildsys is a different auth?  I still  have access there now (which is good)
0:10 <     Sopwith> | sounds like spot can handle it, correct?
0:10 <      warren> | Sopwith, spot is also in the election
0:10 <     Sopwith> | warren: OK, didn't notice that, I'll go annoy him too :)
0:10 <      warren> | Sopwith, generally Extras people do things in Extras, and are in the election
0:10 <     Sopwith> | nod
0:11 <       nirik> | perhaps moving forward the voting could be on a diffrent machine/network?
0:11 <     Sopwith> | warren: Let's try to fix this over the next week or two
0:11 <   > | Sopwith: ping?
0:11              * | thl will move to the next point on the schedule soon
0:11 <      warren> | Sopwith, branching requirement enforcement is one of the things I hope we can automate with the package database.
0:12 <     Sopwith> | warren: nod, that's a longer-term thing though
0:12 <      warren> | Sopwith, so meanwhile... we don't have a solution, so I'll just forward branch requests to sysadmin?
0:12 <     Sopwith> | What really needs to be done is creating a sysadmin-vcs group in the account system, creating accounts from it, and changing CVS to use that account DB.
0:12 <     Sopwith> | warren: Yea. Can you ask mmcgrath to set up an OTRS queue for it, so we don't lose track of them?
0:12 <      warren> | Sopwith, is that a smaller subset than sysadmin-main?
0:13 <     Sopwith> | sysadmin-vcs might be bigger or smaller - as long as it's separate :)
0:13 <      warren> | Sopwith, ok
0:13 <         thl> | k, let's stop here and move on
0:13 <         thl> | warren, Sopwith, sorry for the trouble
0:13 <     Sopwith> | warren: I apologize again for the disruption - just don't have better ideas at the moment than this solution.
0:14 <      warren> | no problem
0:14 <      warren> | well, slight problem =)
0:14            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- Encourage Extras reviews
0:14 <         thl> | did everybody see the FAB meeting summary
0:14              * | scop didn't
0:14 <       tibbs> | Something was supposed to be passed to FESCo, right?
0:14              * | abadger1999 trying to get into the FAB mailing list.
0:14              * | bpepple glanced at it.
0:15              * | thl can't find the url
0:15 <      warren> | thl, which?
0:15 <         thl> | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-06-20
0:15 <     bpepple> | Didn't mspevack send a summary to the mailing list?
0:15 <         thl> | "Fedora Extras Steering Committee discussed the sponsorship lag question. A summary, as provided by SethVidal, follows. "
0:16 <         thl> | everyone should read this
0:16 <         thl> | and we really need to find ways to improve the whole situation
0:16 <    mspevack> | thl: is it an accurate summary?  /me goes back to lurking
0:16 <         thl> | I hope to find time to prepare a mail on it
0:16 <         thl> | and send it to the list for discussion
0:17 <         thl> | but that is probably sill one or two weeks away :-/
0:17            <-- | Eitch has quit ("fui")
0:17 <         thl> | mspevack, yes, I think it's a mostly accurate summary
0:18 <         thl> | warren, tibbs, any news on "We need better documentation of the whole Extras review and sponsor process in the wiki" ?
0:18 <       tibbs> | Well, there's HowToGetSponsored, which we discussed last week.
0:18 <      warren> | I maintain that the only solution is more education and better documentation.  I think Tibbs' mail on this topic is right on track.
0:19 <       nirik> | most of the requests waiting for sponsorship now are lagged due to lack of response/information from submitters IMHO... people expect to submit and get sponsored with no reviews/other info...
0:19 <     bpepple> | warren: +1
0:19 <       tibbs> | I want to work on some of the Packaging pages, but they're all protected now.
0:19 <       tibbs> | So I joined the Packaging Committee, but nothing's happened yet.
0:19 <      warren> | I'm realizing that given my assigned work priorities I need to move away from this.  I think Tibbs has the right idea if he can own this it would be good.  I wish to not obstruct progress on this anymore.
0:20 <       tibbs> | I will need assistance, but hopefully I can work within the Packaging Committee on at least some of it.
0:20 <         thl> | warren, okay
0:20 <         thl> | tibbs, we'll manage that somehow
0:20 <         thl> | but let's stop here for today and move on
0:20 <       tibbs> | I've been trying to ping some folks who have submitted reviews; I think a form letter might be nice.
0:20 <      warren> | tibbs, I will help, but I can't drive.
0:21            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- Incompatible package upgrade policy
0:21 <         thl> | still on the schedule
0:21 <         thl> | nobody really is working on it
0:21 <         thl> | afics
0:21 <         thl> | afaics
0:21            --> | RTLM (RTLM)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:21 <       tibbs> | Incompatible upgrades keep happening.
0:21 <         thl> | directfb still was not updated?
0:21 <       tibbs> | Some of it is due to lack of testing.
0:22 <        scop> | it's still in my homedir on buildsys, waiting for resolution
0:22 <         thl> | tibbs, some also due to lack of knowledge of the problem by the maintainers
0:22 <         thl> | scop, "it" ?
0:22 <        scop> | thl, directfb
0:22 <       tibbs> | I'm probably unclear on just what this topic covers.
0:22 <         thl> | scop, ahh, okay
0:22 <         thl> | tibbs, yeah, maybe
0:23 <         thl> | we really need somebody to driver this forward
0:23 <         thl> | well
0:23 <         thl> | I'll put it on the plate for the new FESCo and ignore it for now
0:23 <        scop> | just to remind, spot said that he'd work something out of the discussions
0:23            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- Weekly sponsorship nomination
0:23 <         thl> | scop, okay, that good
0:24 <         thl> | ehhh, I'm a fool
0:24            <-- | nacc_home has quit ("leaving")
0:24 <         thl> | there was a nomination last week
0:24 <      edhill> | yes, I nominated Orion
0:24 <         thl> | I forgot to forward it to the fesco-list
0:24 <         thl> | we'll get back to it next week
0:24 <      edhill> | ok
0:24 <         thl> | sorry for the delay
0:24 <         thl> | any otehr nominations?
0:24 <      edhill> | no worries
0:25 <       tibbs> | I was thinking of nominating Steve Pritchard.
0:25 <      warren> | I think he's OK.
0:25 <       tibbs> | He maintains a large number of packages and might be around here at the moment.
0:25 <         thl> | tibbs, k, I'll forward that nomination for discussion, too
0:25 <       tibbs> | Thanks.
0:26 <         thl> | any other nominations?
0:26              * | thl will move on in 20
0:26            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- free discussion
0:27 <         thl> | any other things people like to have disucsed?
0:27 <       tibbs> | There was something I was supposed to bring up......  ummmm....
0:27 <       tibbs> | Ah, FC3 branch for nagios-plugins.  Did that happen already?
0:27              * | nirik was going to ask about allowing zaptel-kmod, but the submitter hasn't replied with info from upstream on why it's not getting merged with the mainstream kernel yet.
0:27 <         jpo> | nagios-plugins: perl-Net-SNMP also needs to have a FC-3 branch
0:28 <         thl> | warren, were those created?
0:28 <       tibbs> | Yes, that was it.
0:28 <       tibbs> | nagios-plugins: yes.
0:28              * | scop will be somewhat inactive for the next week, starting from today (vacation)
0:28 <       tibbs> | perl-Net-SNMP not yet.
0:28 <      warren> | FESCO should approve FC3 branches
0:29 <         thl> | tibbs, why do we need perl-Net-SNMP ?
0:29 <      warren> | but during the election I currently don't have access to branch
0:29 <      warren> | I can forward requests if they are approved
0:29 <       tibbs> | The infrastructure group requested it.
0:29 <         thl> | btw: scop, have a nice vacation
0:29 <         jpo> | one of the nagios plugins requires it
0:29 <         thl> | okay, so FC-3 branch for perl-Net-SNMP +1
0:29 <       tibbs> | Infrastructure machines run FC3 it seem.
0:29 <        scop> | thl, you too :)
0:30            --> | nacc_home (Nishanth Aravamudan)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:30 <         thl> | can I get some more +1 please?
0:30 <         thl> | (or 0 or -1)
0:30 <         jpo> | +1
0:30 <         jpo> | (I'm the maintainer)
0:30 <         thl> | warren, scop ?
0:31 <        scop> | +1, seems there is a need and I trust jpo to take good care of it
0:31 <         thl> | okay, that's enough
0:31 <         thl> | warren, can you please forward the request for creation of that branch ot sysadmin ? tia!
0:31 <      warren> | thl, yeah, along with the others.
0:32            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- zaptel-kmod
0:32 <       nirik> | thl: I haven't gotten any response back from the submitter yet... so I think we can postpone this...
0:32 <         thl> | nirik, I really like to hear an explanation why that module is not upstrea
0:32 <         thl> | m
0:32 <       nirik> | yeah, me too. ;)
0:33 <         thl> | k, then let's get back to it when we have one
0:33 <       nirik> | it builds and works fine here. I am using it on my main asterisk box.
0:33 <         thl> | nirik, and poke me when it's ready
0:33 <         thl> | then I'll take a look at the kmod specific parts
0:33 <         thl> | maybe I find time for it eralier
0:33 <       nirik> | will do. You and/or scop should make sure it's ok... s
0:33 <         thl> | (hopefully)
0:34            --- | thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress -- free discussion
0:34 <         thl> | k, anything else
0:34 <      _wart_> | I posted about a minimal buildroot problem on FC4 to f-e-l.  Any ideas what we can do about it? (missing elfutils -> binaries don't get stripped)
0:34 <        scop> | that needs to be added to the build roots
0:34 <         thl> | yeah, looks like it
0:34 <        scop> | IIRC there was some kind of problem with python as well
0:34 <      _wart_> | It's not a problem on FC5/FC6 because rpm-build Requires: elfutils
0:35 <       tibbs> | Push an update for rpm-build?
0:35 <        scop> | pretty unlikely, I think
0:35 <         thl> | yeah, unlikely
0:35 <       tibbs> | Is FE3 similarly busted?
0:36 <      _wart_> | tibbs; Dont' know, I don't build for FE3 anymore.
0:36 <       tibbs> | It will be important for security builds.
0:36 <         thl> | hmmm
0:37 <      _wart_> | Are we pushing the new minimal build root to FE3?
0:37 <         thl> | so how to proceed?
0:37 <      _wart_> | I thought it was just FC4+
0:37 <         thl> | do we want to decide adding pyhton and elfutils to the buildroots of FC4 ?
0:38 <         thl> | or are there other things taht needs to be discussed first?
0:38 <        scop> | anyone remember what pulls in python in FC5+?
0:38 <         thl> | s/things/+ related to this/
0:38              * | warren checks
0:39 <      warren> | hmm..
0:39 <        scop> | maybe some selinux related packages?
0:39 <      warren> | rpm-python used to pull it in
0:40 <      warren> | but rpm-python doesn't appear to be in the list
0:40 <         thl> | okay, let's handle it like this:
0:40 <         thl> | discuss it further on the list
0:40 <      warren> | yeah
0:41 <         thl> | and if it looks like it should be neccessary that elfutils or python need to be added
0:41 <        ensc> | scop: util-linux -> policycoreutils
0:41 <         thl> | we simply do it without further discussion
0:41 <         thl> | that okay for everybody?
0:41 <      warren> | ok
0:41 <      _wart_> | thl: +1
0:41 <        scop> | I probably won't be able to participate in that discussion, but my +1 to both if they're pulled in in FC5+ too
0:41 <        scop> | ensc, ok, thanks
0:42 <        ensc> | scop: I hope, that gets fixed soon...
0:42 <         thl> | okay
0:42 <    dgilmore> | i think we need to include legacy updates in the fc3 buildroot
0:42 <         thl> | dgilmore, what's the status of FE3 anyway?
0:43 <    dgilmore> | thl: i have a couple of package i need to fix
0:43 <         thl> | does the security team track FE3 these days?
0:43            <-- | c4chris_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
0:43 <    dgilmore> | thl: so far the security issues havent effected FC3
0:43 <         thl> | otherwise the plan was to officially EOL it
0:43 <         thl> | dgilmore, well, let's discuss this another time
0:43 <    dgilmore> | thl: ok
0:43 <         thl> | dgilmore, I'll send you a mail and/or ping you
0:44 <    dgilmore> | thl: fine
0:44 <         thl> | k, anything else that needs to be discussed?
0:44              * | thl will close the meeting in 60
0:44 <       tibbs> | Would anyone mind if I started asking FE-NEEDSPONSOR folks about their other reviews and contributions?
0:45 <       tibbs> | They deserve to at least hear something.
0:45 <       nirik> | tibbs: sounds like a good idea to me.
0:45 <         thl> | tibbs, yeah, that sounds like a good idea
0:46              * | thl will close the meeting in 30
0:46 <       tibbs> | I'll start working through the ones who haven't submitted anything other than a single package review.
0:46            --> | c4chris_ (Christian Iseli)  has joined #fedora-extras
0:46              * | thl will close the meeting in 10
0:47 <         thl> | -- MARK meeting end --
0:47 <         thl> | thanks everyone